The Virtuoso in comparison to the other Elite Specs (Discussion)

[Infusion.7149]

45 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

By dagger auto you mean the slow kitten projectile that travels ina straight line? I dont quite see the difference with just tagging everything with gs aa. Also nobody is saying its weak, but i very much believe other than parsing on golem its not in oractice that stronger than other mesmers.

 

Also while true the shatters can hit 5 targets the aoe for that is a line pierce which  is smaller than the clone shatter aoe, a pack of mobs need to be practically focus pulled to hit them all with your f1, thats not the case with the clone aoe.

Its why i suggested that f1 shoud be a ground targeted aoe skill instead of a mob targeted line pierce one.

Even outside golem it was pulling good numbers where you would run power (anywhere condi doesn't get a huge bonus exposed buff).

Greatsword has half the attack speed , it's 1s activation and only hits 3 targets. That's why max tagging mirage needs the ambush.

[Levetty.1279]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Greatsword has half the attack speed , it's 1s activation and only hits 3 targets. That's why max tagging mirage needs the ambush.

Good thing it has the ambush.

[Infusion.7149]

7 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Good thing it has the ambush.

? If you run mirage you lose out on all power bonuses chrono (including phantasm recast via chronophantasma) or virtuoso (15% strike damage mod , 10% crit with fury) has to offer.

[Levetty.1279]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

? If you run mirage you lose out on all power bonuses chrono (including phantasm recast via chronophantasma) or virtuoso (15% strike damage mod , 10% crit with fury) has to offer.

Why are you changing the subject?

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Why are you changing the subject?

Virtuoso doesn't have the ambush, why would you say "good thing it has the ambush" , that makes no sense.

[Levetty.1279]

7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Virtuoso doesn't have the ambush, why would you say "good thing it has the ambush" , that makes no sense.

Mirage has the ambush. What are you talking about?

[Infusion.7149]

16 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Mirage has the ambush. What are you talking about?

So what you're saying is run power mirage instead of power virtuoso?

[Shiyo.3578]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:18 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Virt is the laziest of the nine, it's basically replace clones with blades and ship it.
Every other elite spec got something new and a new way to play.

Catalyst is base ele +0.

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

10 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Catalyst is base ele +0.

 

Still better than core mesmer -1.

[Jables.4659]

On 10/25/2021 at 9:21 AM, Genesis.5169 said:

if you think them pink portals and going pew pew in OW is something lemme tell you you can do open world naked with one weapon.

They turned one of our unique profession utilities (portal) into an item that can be used anywhere outside of competitive modes.  Its not a pink portal, but it does the same thing with a long cooldown that can be reset in Fractals with Mistlocks.  

[Mukz.2704]

Can't even play around with Escape artist trait since it makes a clone - probably the same on mirror images.... core traits dead - Virtuoso doesn't gel with. The elite is so bad you've either got to be playing PvE with a mob sat there or PvP wise just run out of it...

 

What happened to mesmer confusing the enemy with clones then dish out damage now its just a blade flinger that's going to get boring super quick - only interesting now cause it's something different.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

5 hours ago, Mukz.2704 said:

Can't even play around with Escape artist trait since it makes a clone - probably the same on mirror images.... core traits dead - Virtuoso doesn't gel with. The elite is so bad you've either got to be playing PvE with a mob sat there or PvP wise just run out of it...

 

What happened to mesmer confusing the enemy with clones then dish out damage now its just a blade flinger that's going to get boring super quick - only interesting now cause it's something different.

Using shatterstorm back to back requires 10 illusions instead of 6.  So in a shatter style playstyle escape artist adds flexibility. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Using shatterstorm back to back requires 10 illusions instead of 6.  So in a shatter style playstyle escape artist adds flexibility. 

The fact that you require that much blades stocked up to deal moderate damage vs core with shatterstorm is the issue. For core you are able to use other traits to compensate the lack of perhaps defensive options, where as the already low damage shatters that require more resource Virtuoso dont have the luxury and will have to go full out on DPS. Even then you are only dealing moderate damage compared to Core, Chrono, and Mirage.

Again 1 Clone and 1 IP is near equivalent damage to 5 blades shatter. Funny thing is this is suppose to be a full ranged spec yet people are still shattering mid to close range because kitten don't hit at far range. And the worst part is anyone with a brain will know standing behind Virtuoso and you will completely counter it.

[mortrialus.3062]

Virtuoso only feels decent as a raid DPS.  

Just fighting trash and doing events in the open world and the story Virtuoso isn't anywhere near as comfortable to play as this Chrono which has so much quality of life, AI, and especially effortless breakbar damage.

And for soloing bosses including legendary bosses Virtuoso isn't anywhere near as comfortable as this. 

If you're doing events where you need to be fast at tagging enemies for loot like Halloween it, the Power Mirage ambush build will tag things far better than Virtuoso could ever hope to.

So like aside from as a raid DPS, why would you ever want to play Virtuoso?  You don't have the incredible amount of AI to keep you safe and do insane burst damage like open world chrono.  You don't have the incredible amount of survivability mixed with solid damage to solo some of the hardest group content you'll find in the open world like Staff Staff Mirage.  And you'll never keep up with a power mirage for tagging tons of mobs in a huge event. 

PvP and WvW are both nonstarters for the Virtuoso. 

So like for the people who say "OMG I had so much fun running around on Virtuoso its so good" have you like ever tried an actually good Chrono or Mirage build before? 

Edited December 3, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Salt Mode.3780]

Casuals play the class for the visuals and that's about it...in fact that is all they really care about. Those who say Virtuoso is great can't really describe in detail why its great or defend their statement besides putting it out there.

[Leonidrex.5649]

If you want a power mesmer for pvp just do yourself a service and go power mirage, take shatter storm, dueling and crit for ~10k with INSTANT shatters with 100% crit chance, virtuoso is a joke.

[Mell.4873]

On 10/27/2021 at 8:06 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

they wont do anything and they dont care.
as I said somewhere before, after over 2 years of fractals, I am yet to see an elementalist, I have only seen one.
I probably made/played on ~250-300 teams, so thats 1 elementalist out of 1500 classes, so less then 0,1% play-rate
Where are ele fixes?
I dont see any thieves either, maybe 5-6 of them in total, where are their improvements to make them desirable ?
Its all the amazing trio necro, rev, guard, always, everywhere.

I don't see ele on t4s much but I see them quite often on lower tiers and theif is common in t4s since its the highest power dps in fractals by far. I can see them pull 50k on some encounters. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I don't see ele on t4s much but I see them quite often on lower tiers and theif is common in t4s since its the highest power dps in fractals by far. I can see them pull 50k on some encounters. 

you see eles in lower tiers because the ones that make it to T4 quit the class as they see its kittening useless, personally I think thief is good as a class, and people dont play it since its very boring. I started as a thief and couldnt get past leveling proces as spamming the same skill repeatedly is just mind-numbing.
There is bunch of classes that are VERY good but not played all that much, like ranger ( both power and condia re S tier )
but elementalist is just bad all around and no attempts to change it are being made which is showing how little they care.
I make parties ( me support FB, my friend support rev ) and we ask for 3x dps, ANY dps.
Most teams we have either 2x dps FB + 1x dps scourge or 2x dps scourge and 1x dps FB. It almost never changes, we dont force anything onto people but thats what we get because those classes are just plain better AND easier.

[Shiyo.3578]

4 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you see eles in lower tiers because the ones that make it to T4 quit the class as they see its kittening useless, personally I think thief is good as a class, and people dont play it since its very boring. I started as a thief and couldnt get past leveling proces as spamming the same skill repeatedly is just mind-numbing.
There is bunch of classes that are VERY good but not played all that much, like ranger ( both power and condia re S tier )
but elementalist is just bad all around and no attempts to change it are being made which is showing how little they care.
I make parties ( me support FB, my friend support rev ) and we ask for 3x dps, ANY dps.
Most teams we have either 2x dps FB + 1x dps scourge or 2x dps scourge and 1x dps FB. It almost never changes, we dont force anything onto people but thats what we get because those classes are just plain better AND easier.

Wow, yeah. I've been saying this for years, and my experiences in ALL PvE is the EXACT same. While Anet is saying ele is in a good spot, and constantly nerfing it, and every website is saying ele has super high benchmarks, I'm doing PvE and not seeing a single elementalist, ever. There must be a reason for it being a non-existent class.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Wow, yeah. I've been saying this for years, and my experiences in ALL PvE is the EXACT same. While Anet is saying ele is in a good spot, and constantly nerfing it, and every website is saying ele has super high benchmarks, I'm doing PvE and not seeing a single elementalist, ever. There must be a reason for it being a non-existent class.

You get the same rewards for "winning" in fractals / raids/strikes on ele with massive rotations as afking in tome of justice after pressing ashes of the just or autoattacking on mirage with 3 clones.

Also unless you know the player on ele is competent, I've seen some really underperforming elementalists (like running cele ele in T4s and pulling THREE THOUSAND DPS while being alive the whole time despite people benching 30K on weaver with cele).

Edited December 3, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[otto.5684]

20 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Virtuoso only feels decent as a raid DPS.  

Just fighting trash and doing events in the open world and the story Virtuoso isn't anywhere near as comfortable to play as this Chrono which has so much quality of life, AI, and especially effortless breakbar damage.

And for soloing bosses including legendary bosses Virtuoso isn't anywhere near as comfortable as this. 

If you're doing events where you need to be fast at tagging enemies for loot like Halloween it, the Power Mirage ambush build will tag things far better than Virtuoso could ever hope to.

So like aside from as a raid DPS, why would you ever want to play Virtuoso?  You don't have the incredible amount of AI to keep you safe and do insane burst damage like open world chrono.  You don't have the incredible amount of survivability mixed with solid damage to solo some of the hardest group content you'll find in the open world like Staff Staff Mirage.  And you'll never keep up with a power mirage for tagging tons of mobs in a huge event. 

PvP and WvW are both nonstarters for the Virtuoso. 

So like for the people who say "OMG I had so much fun running around on Virtuoso its so good" have you like ever tried an actually good Chrono or Mirage build before? 

While I find Virtuso fun to play, it is surely lacking in the sustain department. I surely prefer it over chrono, but chrono has better sustain. Condi mirage is miles stronger than either in solo PvE.

 

Virtuso is surely the weakest in PvP. 

[Raven.8156]

I was hoping Mesmer would get a two-handed weapon. so far we got axe and shield.

 

They should at least give the virtuoso an off-hand dagger too… give it some mobility or block. Get rid of the phantasms…

[Iavra.8510]

I was thinking, it would've been really cool if, in addition to changing Phantasm skills to self casts, they would have also given Virtuoso access to Physical skills, to go the whole "doing everything yourself" way. This way we would certainly have mobility and a whole unique way to play the class.

[Waywolf.9357]

Yep the Sad fact is Mesmers will again get something to play with but then be forgotten because the other Elite Specs of the different Classes gives just more playstyle and fun to it. I mained Mesmer a very long time and i see the issues day by day in PvE and PvP/WvW...if you put them beside other Classes and Specs...Mesmer is just a Joke. Looking like the ugly lil nephew of someone that got dragged with to a family Party but noone is really noticing him because hes boring and ugly. His Damage...wasted by the other Specs easily, Necro does far more Condi Damage, Ele does far more Condi and Power Damage than a Mesmer does easily. So why is the Mesmer there? Right its just a Class to fill some gaps of People caring for the Lore but really usefull are Mesmers not anymore...the Time has gone where a Mesmer was loved to have in your Group or Squads but now they are just "Fillers and Cannon Fodder"

I doubt Virtuoso will be a real threat in PvP with easily blockable Shatters lul

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Waywolf.9357 said:

Yep the Sad fact is Mesmers will again get something to play with but then be forgotten because the other Elite Specs of the different Classes gives just more playstyle and fun to it. I mained Mesmer a very long time and i see the issues day by day in PvE and PvP/WvW...if you put them beside other Classes and Specs...Mesmer is just a Joke. Looking like the ugly lil nephew of someone that got dragged with to a family Party but noone is really noticing him because hes boring and ugly. His Damage...wasted by the other Specs easily, Necro does far more Condi Damage, Ele does far more Condi and Power Damage than a Mesmer does easily. So why is the Mesmer there? Right its just a Class to fill some gaps of People caring for the Lore but really usefull are Mesmers not anymore...the Time has gone where a Mesmer was loved to have in your Group or Squads but now they are just "Fillers and Cannon Fodder"

I doubt Virtuoso will be a real threat in PvP with easily blockable Shatters lul

You dont even need to block just sidestep or go on an uneven elevation and it wont hit you.