Specter Feedback Thread

[Nightmare.1234]

i am really enjoying the uniqueness of the spectres role.

 

i could not get shadows saviour trait to work with the wells shadow stepping also improvisation doesn't trigger on steal but that same issue as a lot of the on steal triggered traits i expect they will get fixed.

 

new i would find a reason for getting that magic wand privateer weapon sceptre. 

[AikijinX.6258]

Scepter/Dagger seems like the stronger option if you wanted to hybrid. But really only if you are going into full power. SCP/D #3 is super strong. Feels like it should have a piercing element and velocity increase. Because the 1st projectile that is the (slower) one is very prone to MISS. Very frustrating. But when it does hit. It’s pretty impressive. Scp/D — P/D has decent synergy

Edited October 27, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[kash.9213]

10 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Scepter/Dagger seems like the stronger option if you wanted to hybrid. But if you are going into full power. SCP/D #3 is super strong. Feels like it should have a piercing element and velocity increase. Because the 1st projectile that is the (slower) one is very prone to MISS. Very frustrating. But when it does hit. It’s pretty impressive. Scp/D — P/D has decent synergy

I'm not home yet, does it move like old DE Cursed Bullet? CB was very telegraphed but I'd time it to send it on a curve maybe (to be unassuming to target) to land right around when I'd have some other stuff landing. Maybe when we've felt it out for awhile it might sync up with some obvious sequence most people will be using. 

[ixon.2496]

Condi Damage in pvp is abysmal

[TwiceDead.1963]

So initial impressions...

• We can target allies, we are officially the best class in the game.

No new animations so that's a bummer. We got special effects though. Yay

Sc/D feels like an after-thought on the support-side of things compared to Sc/P, but I can't really speak on it much.

What even is Sc/P #3/1? A shadow-shot that when it hits pushes you backwards? Besides re-treading ground from P/D it feels clunky to use, not to mention sometimes it just shadow-steps you somewhere without rhyme or reason. Just get rid of the shadow-step portion against enemies, it didn't feel good.

Works fine for allies because it's just Shadow Shot, except it heals. Healing people is a problem though because the people who need healing are often in a ton of AoE, I tested this both in big PvE boss-figths and WvW and all of your burst-heals outside of shroud require you to get into the fire-pit that your friend is dying from. Barrier application is fine, but Sc #2 is just a beefier auto-attack, and that's kinda boring. 

Survivability-wise... In full-celestial it's completely fine. Got in a couple of scraps with other thieves in WvW and while I couldn't kill them, they couldn't kill me either 1v1. Stalemates all around, and I played terribly, made so many mistakes that I should've been dead as dirt, but I just pressed buttons and persevered. I didn't kill anyone though, damage in Celestial is uhh, not great. Didn't really expect to do damage tbh, running Shadow Arts with Trickery (AGAIN BTW, HOW ABOUT YOU MAKE PREPAREDNESS BASELINE?) and NOT Deadeye or Daredevil or any of the other damaging core-trees.

Support-wise assuming someone doesn't pull too much attention, you are pretty strong in WvW, and as long as you don't get focused instead of the one you are supporting.

Very unsure of zerg-play. I feel it's unlikely going to replace the heal-potential of Guardian, the boon support of Scrapper. Barrier-application feels unreliable in crowds and frequently LoS's on you because of.. something.

 

The most fun I had was applying 30 seconds of quickness on other people constantly in PvE. Anyway my take is likely to change from now till release, if it's going to be for the better or worse I don't know.

 

Edit: WOW I didn't even speak of Shadow Shroud. It didn't impress.

Edited October 26, 2021 by TwiceDead.1963

[Nomad.4301]

This is just a few of the things I've noticed after playing around with the specter in PvE and WvW for around 3~ hours, so take it with a grain of salt. Overall the spec feels unique and like something that the thief needed after getting power-based elites for the last 2 expansions, my one gripe is that you are pretty much locked into taking trickery (again) this time in both PvP and PvE because of the reduced ini, as well as it being the only line with pre-exisiting support abilities (TotC, Bountiful Theft), the third line is a bit more flexible but i still found myself locked into SA when trying to support because of Shadow Savior and Concealing Restoration (for stealth access after heal well). 

1. Scepter 2- This skill feels pretty much like a waste of initiative as it is currently, it's basically a stronger AA in terms of Barrier application, but costs as much Ini as Sc/P 3, the might it gives is single target only and you need to use ALL your Ini to maintain a 25 stack on a single target, this skill would do better as a ground targeted AoE that gives might to all allies in an area, perhaps lowering the stacks but increasing the duration at the same time (from 10 to 12 seconds).  Oh and also Scepter 3 "Triple Threat"  (with no offhand weapon equipped) is bugged and only hits once instead of 3 times, no-one will ever use this skill but it should still be fixed.

2. Well of Tears- Why does this exist? It's clearly a Power DPS ability but there is no conceivable way to run a power build on Specter without severely gimping yourself in the process (i've tried) Because every ability on shroud and every trait is purely focused on condi/support.  This ability would be better off as an Cleansing well that pulses out condi cleanse to allies in the impact area, as specter, despite being a support build, lacks any meaningful way to cleanse from more than just your Siphon target.

3. The focus on single target- while unique limits the Thief when it comes to boon application in groups, Alacrity application is good, but it feels really bad to use endless night and have ALL the quickness dumped onto a single target and get none yourself or on other allies, possible fix could be to give the thief and the other 2 allies endless night gives barrier to half the amount of quickness as the main target, hell even a third would be good. The alternative I suppose is endlessly Shift+tabbing around to allies and spamming endless night, trying to keep everyone topped off 😓. Perhaps this is asking too much as Traversing Dusk already allows you to maintain alacrity on a group, in which case the Quickness is just a treat for the thief's favorite party member. Edit*- It appears that Endless Night is actually a beam attack that will hit up to 2 additional targets between you and your main target giving them the quickness as well, this is.. something, but it really should just be 2 other targets within 200-300 radius of your main instead, it's way to hard to try and "line-up" random players just to use this skill optimally.

4. Siphon and Trickery- I don't like how you are no longer able to cast "steal" with no target to gain the boons from trickery and stealth from Hidden Thief, though this is also a problem on DE. It would also be nice if when using Siphon on allies you got the boons from Bountiful Theft and Thrill of the Crime at half duration to match the half CD you get, this would make boon upkeep easier as a support as it would stop you from being forced to use Siphon on enemies constantly just for boons, this would also synergize better with well of bounty, making it easier to keep up more unique boons. Also, Siphon requires a "Valid Path" to use, why? It clearly isn't a shadowstep anymore 🤔

5. Target Ally hotkey-  This needs work, it currently seems to either target the nearest "friendly" entity or a completely random one, like a ranger pet, since this spec is all about single-target healing it would be nice if this seen a rework to target the lowest HP ally in your squad before some random ranger pet or friendly NPC 30 feet away.

6. Shadow Shroud- It feels really bad to enter shroud and suddenly you're only supporting your single siphon target (which often bugs out and you tether to nothing) Imagine in a fractal when your whole group gets hit by an AoE and you are only able to efficiently bring 1 target back up without spamming all your wells and shadowsteps, this creates a situation where you end up "playing favorites" and all your healing and boons go to 1 person in your party, It would be nice if there was a trait that tethered you to 3-4 allies in a 400-600 radius around you and split all the healing between your nearby allies instead of overloading it on a single target, since Siphon only allows you to swap target every ~5 seconds (with trickery). Perhaps this is just wishful thinking 🙃.  Oh and Eternal Night (shroud 4) could really use an AoE indicator cone so we can see if it will actually hit anything, I've had it hit nothing WAY too many times.

One last minor thing is there currently is no gear set that really works with what Specter is trying to do, closest I've found is Plaguedoctors. The dream set for this class would be something like ++Condi damage ++Healing +concentration +expertise, though this might be too good, here's hoping for some new stat combos in EoD!

Edited October 26, 2021 by Nomad.4301
Fixed spacing issue

[Lorena.8415]

I like the ranged abilities with scepter, and some of the target skills were interesting to use. It does, like all other thief classes feel incredibly squishy when compared to others. I don't really think the damage increase is high enough or the skills are interesting enough that I'd opt into this over the other elites but yeah, but it does focus on single target quite well, and the skills do look neat. I do think that you could probably re-work the animations a little bit because it does feel like you're attacking extremely slow for some reason. It also feels difficult to play the game solo as this class, as if you encounter too many enemies it feels like you get stomped down in seconds without skill-spam. 

 

Overall this one's still better than how I feel about Untamed from these 3 beta types, but this one could still use a little reworking in my honest opinion.

[Embered.5089]

The first weapon sound is a bit too high-pitched for me, so continuously using autoattack 1 scepter hurts my ears.

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

Wow.

I built a support specter and it blew my mind. I don't really know where to start with how awesome this played!. My only struggle (and to be fair it's probably quite big) is that I've grown used to a game that doesn't require targeting players for support builds and I use the action camera now so mouse clicking party members is tricky too. I guess it's my own fault but I've found it unfortunately difficult to go back to combat using the normal mouse setup and so needing to target players is a problem. But then perhaps it's just about improving my setup and adding a keybind for targeting allies - at this point I'm running out of keys for things I need regularly that are comfortable to reach while playing, caps lock is free I guess. The other problem is that even with nameplates always on (which I prefer not to have) it's sometimes hard to keep track of every players location in order to be facing the right way to dispense support skills like this. I would very much prefer that the tether and allied skills were simply to 5 nearby targets with a different or reduced effect than this single targeting stuff. But otherwise it's really a super duper class and tbh it seems to give enough support without targeting allies anyway x)

[obastable.5231]

3 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I like the fact that the auto attack continuously occurs even if I switch targets, though it gets annoying when it comes down to getting out of combat because the attack just repeatedly happens even if you're not targeting someone, I think that needs changing so that when you're not targeting anything, you stop the auto attack. 

 

This is nothing new, you can fix or modify this in the settings a couple of ways.

Firstly, navigate to your targeting settings. 

Esc. > Options > General Options - scroll to Combat/Movement

From here you can toggle the following: Stop autoattacking on target change (this will stop your autoattack when you deselect or change targets), Autotargeting (this chooses a target if you attack and don't have one selected) - if you don't have the first thing I mentioned toggled on and you keep auto attacking it will choose a target. If you toggle the first one on and leave Autotargeting on it'll still choose a target if you start attacking. 

If you turn on the first and turn off the second your auto attacks will either do nothing (if they require a target) or just fire in your line of sight if they don't require a target (if it hits something you may end up in combat).

To add another layer of control to this, go to the Control Options tab - scroll to Targeting and set a keybind for Lock Autotarget. I am not sure why this does what it does but it deselects targets. If you've got a target selected and don't want to have one, press the hotkey for lock autotarget and you'll drop your target.

Hopefully this helps with the issues you're having. There are other settings that will interfere with intentionally chosen or deselected targets, so mouse over the rest of the settings there in the combat and targeting options - you may find many of them are the source of perceived problems with the game. 

[AquaBR.9250]

PvE wise:

Allow us to use weapon skills while in shroud, maybe an F3 that switches to normal skills, i don't feel like using this shroud and is a good way to differentiate it from necro, give some 5-10% strike damage bonus and it will be cool.

Having all the traits be support is also useless, since everyone will just use the best ones, traits should be different options for different builds not different ways of doing the same thing.

If all traits heal, ppl will just take the one that heals more, i know is a support elite but it should have the option to play more offensive or else this will be useless in soloplay, you know, in solo play i don't really have anyone to heal, and since i don't play group content because the many issues in the way ppl are allowed to play it (aka stacking and such) will just be an elite for my main class that i will never use because will be straight up imparing to play with it. 

 

Will be just a new druid, a support elite that is not played much because it can only be support, well druid have that trait that bleeds and immob, it make some cool condi builds, but specter dont even have that.

 

I'd enjoy one grandmaster trait that makes the shadowshroud a offensive thing, with my normal weapon skills, with some self superspeed and alac so i can pew pew with it.

 

Build diversity in this elite: 0/10

 

(So, specter can 5 ppl quick, alac AND heal, but deadeye can't even be a top DPS,
deadeye have nothing, can't even be good in the only thing it does.

Take off the alac from this specter and put it on Fire for Effect for dwayna's sake

P/P been a sad weapon set since launch take out some of the self might and increase the base damage of the pew pew pew btw)

Edited October 27, 2021 by AquaBR.9250

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

#5 with Sc/P is a waste of a skill for 90% of its potential usage... Make Sc/P #3 a leap finisher for both versions w/ ally or against a foe so we can have access to stealth & make the autoattacks projectile finishers for the scepter.

Risk vs Reward should be applied for how we generate Shadow Force much like the necromancers shroud...with necromancer they can generate life force for THEIR shroud much easier and some skills give varying results to how much life force is given...my suggestion is to allow MORE shadowforce to be gained based on the MORE initiative you spend...if i spend 6 initiative and only get 2% back or spend 3 and STILL just get 2% shadowforce back...its kind of like...why?!

On Steal traits like Thrill of the Crime & Bountiful Theft & Mug (healing aspect of it) are not proccing when targeting an ally and it should...

Add a stealth attack to Shadow Shroud for our #1 attack, make it worth it. In fact...dependent on the mainhand weapon you are using, make new stealth attacks that can attack either enemies OR allies or BOTH......somehow also incorporate Enduring Toxin from GW1 into the Specter, it will definitely help against Daredevil as a counter. Below are some suggestions for stealth attacks dependent on which weapon you are holding currently prior to entering Shadow Shroud

• Sword: Impale - Introduce Deep Wound as a condition that acts like the OPPOSITE of Barrier...make it cleansable
• Dagger: Coated Dagger which basically is like a Backstab but suped up to debuff target with the aforementioned Enduring Toxin...however as a nifty little idea for the toxin...make it similar to Pulmonary Impact and have it un-cleansable unless they stop moving...furthermore when their health reaches specific health thresholds they get specific VERY long lasting conditions that scale with condition damage...maybe at first threshold weakness as the toxin starts to set in, then the next threshold weakness and  blind following up with the next being weakness, blind, cripple and so forth...make it hurt the longer they keep going...but the only way to remove it is to stop moving! (kitten daredevils)
• Shortbow: Shadow Fragment - periodically blinds target until it expires
  These are just a few examples of what is definitely possible within the devs...just give the above buffs we can give allies if we STEALTH ATTACK them..

Dawns Repose is wonky, it doesnt have the range indicator in the correct place and you end up overshooting your dash.

No stunbreak utility on any of the wells when we should have at least 1

The elite looks like you leap into the air yet states you shadowstep...make it a shadowstep&leap or make it a small evade frame since you are in the air...makes no sense.

Why doesnt leeching venom work with Rot Wallow venom?! its not THAT overpowered...its 1 attack that leeches health for allies, also why is it Torment we apply when we already have a utility venom that does this?!

Make Improvisation useful for Specter...make it in addition to (the low chance it will) recharging our utilities we can tether to 1 addition target! 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230
added more context and cleaning up

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Has anyone done a DPS test in full vipers to see how much damage is done exclusively through supporting allies with rot wallow?  I noticed that Rot does more damage than the auto attack, so in theory this spec does more damage auto-attacking an ally than it does attacking an enemy.  

[RyuDragnier.9476]

21 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

thrill of the crime and a few other on steal traits do NOT work when siphoning

They do work on Siphoning...but not on allies. Only when hitting an enemy, and there's a delay on Hidden Thief's stealth (when there shouldn't be).

[killforbeers.7534]

I am testing all of them today and I am not a thief main and I am enjoying this build in PVE so far but went to WvW it is a different story. In WvW you have to be careful as rangers combo really drops the hp almost a one hit especially with the build they provided and gear. I tested the Untamed and yup I was also able to drop the specter players. It benefits the ally you are protecting but a little more protection or hp would be nice as I am getting targeted by the groups when trying to roam solo or in a small team of 2 or 3. So I am asking you Pros - anyone having this experience as well? Did you have to go tank to survive or kept the same specs Anet provided? Also to kill a player while you are roaming and not full condition - it takes longer to kill them.

Edited October 26, 2021 by killforbeers.7534

[Xogue.1759]

I love how different this is from other type of thief builds. Not just here, but among all other games I have played. This type of character is my namesake (Rogue) so I have always been a fan of those who change it up to give it the versatility it deserves. It was also done very well, since it still fits the theme of how the class was built in this game, rather than just mimicking another class's support build. 

That said, while I do love the support you can offer others, much of the game is played solo, or at least can be, and some opt to play it entirely solo. So while I love the idea of testing this build in scenarios that allow me to support the group, I fear that those who have no interest in such things would never use it. There are usually options to allow support skills to benefit the solo player, but most of these do not.

Many of the visuals are open to opinion and much of what is said will be based on that. I am good with them. I would personally choose a different color, but purple makes sense. It would be pretty cool if you could add something to an item to change the color of its auras and effects. but that goes for all classes and skills, not just here so I wont go further into that.

I also love the combo skill idea of Twilight Combo. The idea that the first shot can be used and boosted by the second. I would like to see that concept spread to more to other weapons, skills and classes. Just came back to the game after a lengthy break, so maybe this is already a thing, but worth a mention in case it isnt.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

sound effect seems a bit too loud.

wells do trigger too slowly and appear a moment after the shadowstep instead of being instant.

as for the scepter, the skill 2 feels useless.
the rest looks ok. definitively the best spec out of all of them. but the condi damage do feel a bit low.

[Androx.8572]

I wish this spec was viable as a damage dealer .

And a weird thing….. for having so many teleports , this still kinda feels slow in comparison to wearing a rifle. 
 

Rebuild for Power User Thieves please.

Im not saying it’s bad , in terms of support and condition damage it’s nice , Im just saying add more power damage to the whole spec maybe? 

[killforbeers.7534]

I also agree this spec at least in WvW the condi, dps damage is weak and the other player can tell when you fighting and will be on you cause they will out damage, out heal and out condition you especially roaming or in a team of 2 or 3+. It feels it needs more help. In a bigger team fight or zerg its okay. It is harder to be at the front line when defending/protecting the Commander. Also the targeting needs help when you switch to enemy and trying to target back the commander or another player its hard in the middle of a big group fight or zerg.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

Dark Sentry is almost useless in soloplay.

Dark Sentry should either increase self-heal/self barrier as well or Rot Wallow Venom should be appliable to yourself.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Spec works poorly with action camera. Due to my carpal tunnel, it's physically painful for me to play without AC (I was a beta player but had to quit until AC was added for me health). Please make sure this and all classes and specs work well with AC. Don't make this like the cannons ion the Zhatian fight (which have never worked without leaving action camera).

Edited October 27, 2021 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Ivaldi.5076]

Basically unplayable with Action Cam, which is the only way I can play games due to RSI these days.  Honestly extremely disappointing as this was the class I was looking forward to the most, only to find I can't play it.  Single targeting skills in this game is a mistake.  Building a class around being with an ally is also a mistake, there needs to be a talent that switches the tether function to some sort of self buff so it has use when playing solo.  So it is both unplayable for Action Cam and I also really don't see much use for its niche anywhere unless I'm duoing in open world which I don't even think you would need support for that.  I don't really understand where this is supposed to be good.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

34 minutes ago, Androx.8572 said:

I wish this spec was viable as a damage dealer .

And a weird thing….. for having so many teleports , this still kinda feels slow in comparison to wearing a rifle. 
 

Rebuild for Power User Thieves please.

Im not saying it’s bad , in terms of support and condition damage it’s nice , Im just saying add more power damage to the whole spec maybe? 

Don't think it's meant to be a power spec, too much support and condi traits. Sadly you'll probably have to stick with DD for the power spec.

[Scorci.3250]

i thought class design couldnt get any worse from HoT, boy i was wrong

 

 

 

[Downstate.4697]

So you can heal and maintain stealth. I just ran a perma-stealth build and spammed barrier on allies with sc/p 3. Also ally targeting sucks