Virtuoso changes look great

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, jaif.3518 said:

Btw, I think many of you need to realize that playing a class is not a marriage - many people play most, if not all the classes, changing it up as they feel the mood.

So what you're saying is people should stop playing mesmer.

[Leonidrex.5649]

6 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

And how are blades and the bladesong class mechanic skills not a new mechanic?

All virtuoso F skills do the exact same thing as core shatters.
F1 power damage
F2 condi damage
F3 daze
F4 invuln -> block
Its straight up mechanical downgrade
 

[Mell.4873]

5 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

All virtuoso F skills do the exact same thing as core shatters.
F1 power damage
F2 condi damage
F3 daze
F4 invuln -> block
Its straight up mechanical downgrade
 

But they behave completely differently since you have 5 separate attacks not 3. They all aoe and can pierce which means large bosses can get hit multiple times.

 

I also notices F1 animation is different to F2.

F1 is in a straight line

F2 seems to fire at the ground, heat seek

F3 one big attack

F4 an aoe around the player. this is arguably better than old f4 that does no dps

[babak.3654]

11 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

F4 an aoe around the player. this is arguably better than old f4 that does no dps

Better than distortion (or continuum split if playing chrono)? Because it does 'dps'? Now I have heard everything.

[Infusion.7149]

There's actually been some minor stealth nerfs that aren't mentioned in patch notes.
Plus while unstable bladestorm was increased in damage it still takes multiple seconds to reach a target at range.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[The Specimen.8973]

36 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

But they behave completely differently since you have 5 separate attacks not 3. They all aoe and can pierce which means large bosses can get hit multiple times.

 

I also notices F1 animation is different to F2.

F1 is in a straight line

F2 seems to fire at the ground, heat seek

F3 one big attack

F4 an aoe around the player. this is arguably better than old f4 that does no dps

I'm really sorry but what?! Like I've held my tongue when seeing your posts; but for real, if you're saying that the Virtuoso's F4 is better than Core's F4, I'm sorry but I find your posts so troll. Losing Distortion (Damage invuln.) for a 2 second block that deals a tickle of damage is, by your account, a good thing lmao... I really don't know what to say, but that is such a bad take. 

 

All the shatters are Core shatters but with significant drawbacks: Cast times, Slow projectile speeds, projectiles (so your shatters are going to be easily blocked a lot of the time), one blade is 20% of f1's damage compared to 1 clone on Core equals around 65% (give or take) of f1's damage, no decrease in shatter CDs to allow for more shattering with how much blade generation there is (meaning you don't actually shatter more than any other mesmer spec), F4 is a 2 sec block instead of the far better Distortion of core f4, f2 is still the condi shatter (f2 and condi traitline should be replace because this is obviously a power spec).

 

I'm seriously dumbfounded by what you've said lmao

[Obliviscaris.6937]

Good god. 

It's so clunky and slow. There's zero utility and no actual brain work involved in playing this spec. Where's the finesse?

Looks like I'll be (happily) sticking to core Mesmer again. 

 

Seriously the whole concept needs to be trashed, or re-worked from the ground up. 

 

I want it to work, I want to use a dagger and I want to make use of the gorgeous visuals but it's just a mess. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obliviscaris.6937
Expanding on how kitten the spec is.

[Levetty.1279]

1 hour ago, babak.3654 said:

Better than distortion (or continuum split if playing chrono)? Because it does 'dps'? Now I have heard everything.

It isn't even good dps, no idea what he is talking about.

[Leonidrex.5649]

Honestly, the only advantage I see is that F skills hit more times and thus punch through blind/aegis better.
But then F3 is a single hit with cast time and it ruins everything.
Entire dagger seems poorly designed, should be scrapped and redone.

[Mik.3401]

1 hour ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

Good god. 

It's so clunky and slow. There's zero utility and no actual brain work involved in playing this spec. Where's the finesse?

Looks like I'll be (happily) sticking to core Mesmer again. 

 

Seriously the whole concept needs to be trashed and re-worked from the ground up. 

Same here I agree, unfortunately this is just beyond bad. I don’t see them changing the shatters at all. They will probably attempt to rework it by adding more aegis and synergy with inspi. Or other monstrosity like that

[Aedil.1296]

I dunno maybe cause I main Ele which is a hard class to play for me and our new elite spec still sucks so badly, but seriously I'm in love with virtuoso. I've been wishing for this kind of ranged DPS mage for ages. Just easy rotation, some aegis/block and pure DPS I'm just in love really. The theme is not about the elements but still the animations and visual effects looks amazing and the game style is just so much what I needed. I have no hoes anymore for catalyst but for sure I will play virtuoso. I also really like not having my DPS dependant on clones/phantasms too much which for mesmer is a nice change!

Im sure not all will agree but I this my opinion and I don't mean to take anything away from anyone! I respect yours please respect mine! 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, babak.3654 said:

Better than distortion (or continuum split if playing chrono)? Because it does 'dps'? Now I have heard everything.

Well atleast you are doing some damage with this shatter and get boons via blocking. Distortion gives you nothing for dps. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, The Specimen.8973 said:

I'm really sorry but what?! Like I've held my tongue when seeing your posts; but for real, if you're saying that the Virtuoso's F4 is better than Core's F4, I'm sorry but I find your posts so troll. Losing Distortion (Damage invuln.) for a 2 second block that deals a tickle of damage is, by your account, a good thing lmao... I really don't know what to say, but that is such a bad take. 

 

All the shatters are Core shatters but with significant drawbacks: Cast times, Slow projectile speeds, projectiles (so your shatters are going to be easily blocked a lot of the time), one blade is 20% of f1's damage compared to 1 clone on Core equals around 65% (give or take) of f1's damage, no decrease in shatter CDs to allow for more shattering with how much blade generation there is (meaning you don't actually shatter more than any other mesmer spec), F4 is a 2 sec block instead of the far better Distortion of core f4, f2 is still the condi shatter (f2 and condi traitline should be replace because this is obviously a power spec).

 

I'm seriously dumbfounded by what you've said lmao

Distortion is useless for dps and atleast blocks can provide you with a few boons.

The cast time a slow projectile speed means nothing when you have quickness going.

You just need to stun or aim you shatters better if you can't hit enemies. 

 

Hybrid would be the best use for this class since you won't need to run expertise if you have only Bleed damage, just run a Bleed duration rune.

[mortrialus.3062]

50 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Distortion is useless for dps and atleast blocks can provide you with a few boons.

The cast time a slow projectile speed means nothing when you have quickness going.

You just need to stun or aim you shatters better if you can't hit enemies. 

 

Hybrid would be the best use for this class since you won't need to run expertise if you have only Bleed damage, just run a Bleed duration rune.

The boons from blocking will barely outlast the block animation anyway. 

In a group setting none of those boons matter.

In a group setting both chrono and mirage out dps Virtuoso.

When solo, chrono can keep perma quickness on itself with just chronophantasma and the illusions traitline.

Chrono in general is far more and easier and burstier damage than Virtuoso even in solo play. One phantasm skill can one shot most non elite mobs outright. Mirage solos bosses including legendary bounties far easier than Virtuoso ever will. I am fairly convinced vituoso can't solo any.

Quickness doesn't improve projectile speed.

Distortion is superior because of no interference with your normal rotation.

Virtuoso is completely nonviable in PvP no matter how many stuns you try to take.

All of your posts read like you're deliberately trying to sandbag Virtuoso so that it doesn't get the changes it needs to be good even on it's own terms.

The other forums, even people who don't main warrior but like the idea of bladesworn or whichever profession, are not running around the forum screaming "OMG BLADESWORN IS PERFECT" or "SPECTER IS JUST WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR NO CHANGES NEEDED".  They still point out what issues the spec has not just screaming "ACTION! CUT!  SEND IT TO THE PRINTERS!"

Edited December 1, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Mell.4873]

24 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The boons from blocking will barely outlast the block animation anyway. 

In a group setting none of those boons matter.

In a group setting both chrono and mirage out dps Virtuoso.

When solo, chrono can keep perma quickness on itself with just chronophantasma and the illusions traitline.

Chrono in general is far more and easier and burstier damage than Virtuoso even in solo play. One phantasm skill can one shot most non elite mobs outright. Mirage solos bosses including legendary bounties far easier than Virtuoso ever will. I am fairly convinced vituoso can't solo any.

Quickness doesn't improve projectile speed.

Distortion is superior because of no interference with your normal rotation.

Virtuoso is completely nonviable in PvP no matter how many stuns you try to take.

All of your posts read like you're deliberately trying to sandbag Virtuoso so that it doesn't get the changes it needs to be good even on it's own terms.

The other forums, even people who don't main warrior but like the idea of bladesworn or whichever profession, are not running around the forum screaming "OMG BLADESWORN IS PERFECT" or "SPECTER IS JUST WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR NO CHANGES NEEDED".  They still point out what issues the spec has not just screaming "ACTION! CUT!  SEND IT TO THE PRINTERS!"

Mesmer is my main and I still like Virtuoso.

I guess we agree to disagree, the block seems more useful for me, more synergy with traits. I will probably run boon duration sigil with Virtuoso. 

I will say with beta gear I was not doing my normal 10k in the open world like with Chrono. I was getting roughly 8k dps on bounties but I'm sure I will get above 10k with full gear.

(10k self buffs only) 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mell.4873

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Aedil.1296 said:

I dunno maybe cause I main Ele which is a hard class to play for me and our new elite spec still sucks so badly, but seriously I'm in love with virtuoso. I've been wishing for this kind of ranged DPS mage for ages. Just easy rotation, some aegis/block and pure DPS I'm just in love really. The theme is not about the elements but still the animations and visual effects looks amazing and the game style is just so much what I needed. I have no hoes anymore for catalyst but for sure I will play virtuoso. I also really like not having my DPS dependant on clones/phantasms too much which for mesmer is a nice change!

Im sure not all will agree but I this my opinion and I don't mean to take anything away from anyone! I respect yours please respect mine! 

Virtuoso Does seem better then expected realistically.. i've seen it manage some serious dmg in SPVP if u let it burst you (Not saying its perfect)

but u are aware Catalyst is a 55k DPS Specc.. compared to the 40k Virtuoso Specc Right? o.O while catalyst has access to every boon in the game unlike virtuoso. suispose it depends on what ur playing for. the ranged aspect is nice..its just sad virts DPS builds dont use the dagger 😞

[mortrialus.3062]

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Virtuoso Does seem better then expected realistically.. i've seen it manage some serious dmg in SPVP if u let it burst you (Not saying its perfect)

but u are aware Catalyst is a 55k DPS Specc.. compared to the 40k Virtuoso Specc Right? o.O while catalyst has access to every boon in the game unlike virtuoso. suispose it depends on what ur playing for. the ranged aspect is nice..its just sad virts DPS builds dont use the dagger 😞

Virt is about 35k now

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Virt is about 35k now

lol so not even in the same realms as Catalyst is now xD Jesus.. its Actually a Worse Weaver.. who'd of seen it coming

so bad at PvP.

a Pure DPS that cant DPS in PvE.

and a Fraction of the solo ability in open world.

kitten, lol,

Why would u trade catalyst in for this xD..... i hear catalyst isnt amazing in pvp, but neither is Virt. Virt must be the weakest elite now then?

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[mortrialus.3062]

21 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

lol so not even in the same realms as Catalyst is now xD Jesus.. its Actually a Worse Weaver.. who'd of seen it coming

so bad at PvP.

a Pure DPS that cant DPS in PvE.

and a Fraction of the solo ability in open world.

kitten, lol,

Why would u trade catalyst in for this xD..... i hear catalyst isnt amazing in pvp, but neither is Virt. Virt must be the weakest elite now then?

I haven't seen an official benchmark yet but that was snowcrows theory crafter running the numbers in their discord.

 

Virtuoso is power crit staff core ele level in PvP.  Among the absolute bottom of all core and elites with core engineer and ele.

Edited December 1, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

When someone says block is better or more useful than an invulnerability that lets you attack at the same time there's nothing more to be said. 

This is the feedback that ANerf actually listens... Holy kitten...

Edited December 1, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

27 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Virtuoso is power crit staff core ele level in PvP.  Among the absolute bottom of all core and elites with core engineer and ele.

At least core ele has attunement swap and core engie has tool belt. They literally stripped what made Mesmer unique. I'm fine with no clones, but they literally took what made shatters useful without any sort of compensation. If CMC wanted this to be "The Shatter" spec, why not create more unique shatters or at minimum give F1 and F2 ammo by default. 

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

1 minute ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

When someone says block is better or more useful than an invulnerability that lets you attack at the same time there's nothing more to be said. 

This is the feedback that ANerf actually listens... Holy kitten...

Virtuoso was made to please those who can't be bothered to learn to play the game unfortunately. They probably think alacrity is bad because their skills come off quicker cooldown and they can't keep up.

[The Specimen.8973]

9 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

When someone says block is better or more useful than an invulnerability that lets you attack at the same time there's nothing more to be said. 

This is the feedback that ANerf actually listens... Holy kitten...

Exactly! Like I'm so confused reading Mell's posts, they're so dejected from the reality of the Virtuoso. If they genuinely think all these changes are an improvement for mesmer while the general consensus of mesmer mains on this forum (many of which I've seen as regulars on the forum for agessss) strongly dislike these same changes, I question their understanding of Mesmer as a whole... and they're saying they main mesmer....

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, The Specimen.8973 said:

Exactly! Like I'm so confused reading Mell's posts, they're so dejected from the reality of the Virtuoso. If they genuinely think all these changes are an improvement for mesmer while the general consensus of mesmer mains on this forum (many of which I've seen as regulars on the forum for agessss) strongly dislike these same changes, I question their understanding of Mesmer as a whole... and they're saying they main mesmer....

I don't have to agree with everyone, if people came out and said virtuoso is amazing I would probably  point out why it is not. 

I just tend to be devil's advocate. 

 

I like Virtuoso because I will most likely use it in open world vs bosses and that's about it. I only use mirage for end-game content anyway, I don't like chrono at all for end game. 

[zealex.9410]

Will not comment on the dmg numbers as i havent olayed it yet bit im not sure why dagger needed a dmg nerf when it also doesnt bring amythimg but dmg.

Unlike sword and scepter dagger doesnt have a utility/defensive skill so it really needed the glass cannon aspect to be strong.

If you gonna nerf the dmg at least add utility or defensives, like idk making it so you can recast dagger 3 to teleport to your tornado or smth.

 

Also for the love of god fix utilities requiring us facing the target and fix the f4 its underpowered and a hot mess.

Edited December 1, 2021 by zealex.9410