Gibson.4036 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said: And yes it has been 250 years. Just look in the real world how cities have changed in 250 years. It would be very unlikely if it looked the same in GW1 and GW2. The sci-fi aspects just fit the Jade Tech narrative. The last 250 years, yes, but isolationist societies have gone through 250 years with very little change in human history as well. There’s nothing intrinsic to that time span that says massive change. The reason we’ve experienced massive change in the last 250 years is industrial revolution. The writers have chosen to give Cantha an industrial revolution, but that was a choice. Im not arguing against that choice as some are, but 250 years is not a sufficient cause for big change. We could have equally realistically encountered a Cantha that has stagnated due to its isolated nature and is just now changing as a liberal leader decides to open it to the outside world. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, yoni.7015 said: And yes it has been 250 years. Just look in the real world how cities have changed in 250 years. "Could you explain why these changes are both satisfying and good from a creative decision angle when we put it in the context of EoD Cantha being a sequel to Cantha? Other than parroting 250 years." "But 250 years and and 250 years" ok.. Edited February 20, 2022 by witcher.3197 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 I myself aint a big fan of it, the first thing that came to my mind was Anet trying to pull a cyberpunk on Tyria, I dont know, I was watching the trailer and the "They are the most powerful nation on Tyria" was like, okay, but how? Jade Tech? What is this non sense and why it would superior then Magi Tech from the Asura( which is, or was atleast, supposed to be the big brain race)? They are isolated from the rest of the world, no cultural exchange as far as I know (know little of the lore) how on earth would they be more advanced then the other races we have now, even more post Pact were everyone is friends with everyone lol 1 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Felipe.1807 said: I myself aint a big fan of it, the first thing that came to my mind was Anet trying to pull a cyberpunk on Tyria, I dont know, I was watching the trailer and the "They are the most powerful nation on Tyria" was like, okay, but how? Jade Tech? What is this non sense and why it would superior then Magi Tech from the Asura( which is, or was atleast, supposed to be the big brain race)? They are isolated from the rest of the world, no cultural exchange as far as I know (know little of the lore) how on earth would they be more advanced then the other races we have now, even more post Pact were everyone is friends with everyone lol Bubbles is probably a lot smarter than the inflated Asura would like to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 15 hours ago, yoni.7015 said: And yes it has been 250 years. Just look in the real world how cities have changed in 250 years. Why do we keep going in circles in this thread? It's downright exhausting. Again, the real world that you all love to use for comparison did not go from the Middle Ages to "Blade Runner" in 250 years. Anyway, I am tired of this discussion, it seems 100% pointless, because - as stated above - we keep going in circles. 15 hours ago, witcher.3197 said: Let's say you're given full creative control at Anet and get the task of making a sequel to Cantha. You go on to flood and destroy Kaineng, replace it with asura city but green, remove the Japanese and Chinese influence to zone in on Korean, remove the Luxons, remove the Kurzicks, remove the iconic faction conflict with no mention of any content for PvP, turn the Echovald into just another forest, mine the jade sea to the bottom, change the entire color palette of the region to be so oversaturated it hurts the eye, take the setting from high-fantasy to sci-fi, and so on. What's your thought process there? Please help me see why these changes are so good they're literally the ONLY thing that could've happened and every other option would be worse. 👍 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said: Why do we keep going in circles in this thread? It's downright exhausting. Again, the real world that you all love to use for comparison did not go from the Middle Ages to "Blade Runner" in 250 years. Anyway, I am tired of this discussion, it seems 100% pointless, because - as stated above - we keep going in circles. 👍 To think societies stay the same all the time and nothing happens in 250 years is just nonsense and the real world proves you wrong. Sometimes changes are bigger like in the last 250 years but even if we take for example the end of the Middle Ages and compare it to 250 years later, a lot has happened and a lot has changed. Edited February 21, 2022 by yoni.7015 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Is there some Tyrian universe rule that progress must move at the same speed as it does on Earth? 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Is there some Tyrian universe rule that progress must move at the same speed as it does on Earth? Exactly. Tyria is a fantasy world with its own rules. But even when you take the real world as comparison, nothing stays the same for 250 years as Ashantara and others here seem to believe. They want to show that Cantha has changed. The easiest and most believable way to show change in a video game is through architecture I would say. Change of Thought and change of mentality can only be shown to a certain point. Edited February 21, 2022 by yoni.7015 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 It’s disingenuous to say that people are arguing nothing should have changed. They’re saying that there’s nothing about 250 years that makes this level of technological change inevitable. The amount of technological change is a choice on the part of the developers. Some don’t like it, and are asking about the game and story reasons behind it, but mostly get this meaningless “250 years” repeated back to them. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: It’s disingenuous to say that people are arguing nothing should have changed. They’re saying that there’s nothing about 250 years that makes this level of technological change inevitable. The amount of technological change is a choice on the part of the developers. Some don’t like it, and are asking about the game and story reasons behind it, but mostly get this meaningless “250 years” repeated back to them. How can we know the story behind it? We haven’t played it yet. Have you? Then please tell us more. Of course the change is a choice of the developers, no one here said otherwise. The 250 years are the number the devs stated so it’s not meaningless and many here have pointed out that a lot can happen in 250 years, in a fantasy world like Tyria and even in the real world. That’s not that hard to understand. Edited February 21, 2022 by yoni.7015 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 No it’s not hard to understand. Tech could have changed a lot, or very little. People want to talk about the merits of either, but I guess we’ll just keep endlessly chanting “250” over and over like it means something. 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 No it’s not hard to understand. Tech could have changed a lot, or very little. People want to talk about the merits of either, but I guess we’ll just keep endlessly chanting “250” over and over like it means nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: No it’s not hard to understand. Tech could have changed a lot, or very little. People want to talk about the merits of either, but I guess we’ll just keep endlessly chanting “250” over and over like it means something. Cantha changed a lot as we could see in the streams. So you have no point other than “I don’t like it, please change” Edited February 21, 2022 by yoni.7015 5 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 43 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: No it’s not hard to understand. Tech could have changed a lot, or very little. People want to talk about the merits of either, but I guess we’ll just keep endlessly chanting “250” over and over like it means something. If you read back into the beginnings of this thread, the 250 years were actually first brought up by somebody opposed to the theme arguing that 250 years was not nearly enough to realistically explain this evolution of the canthan society. I've re-watched the different guild chats we had on EoD recently, and pretty much all of them strongly hint at explanations for this rapid evolution being given in the EoD story. Personally I'll wait and see what's behind all this. I don't see a reason to argue either way without knowing what's been going on, especially if the argument on both sides seems to boil down to "250 is not enough for this change" - "no, 250 years is plenty of time" - "no way" ... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said: How can we know the story behind it? We haven’t played it yet. Have you? Then please tell us more. Of course the change is a choice of the developers, no one here said otherwise. The 250 years are the number the devs stated so it’s not meaningless and many here have pointed out that a lot can happen in 250 years, in a fantasy world like Tyria and even in the real world. That’s not that hard to understand. Some people don't want to know the story behind it. However, some of us want to know the reason why Arenanet decided this leap in human technology was necessary. Not once have Arenanet given us any reason why they chose to make Cantha is so toxically green now. And no, "250 have passed" is no reason. At best it's circumventing the question due to their unwillingness to give us a real reason. 50 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said: Cantha changed a lot as we could see in the streams. So you have no point other than “I don’t like it, please change” Cantha changing at all is not a problem. Some of the lead developers admitted to never having played Factions, so they now next to nothing of the feel of the continent. The problem is how Cantha changed and that, instead of trying to understand why Cantha was such a often mentioned wish from players, they simply bulldozed over most of the lore threads that existed and then painted all over it to suit their narrative. If Arenanet wanted some hyper-advanced culture with no actual connection to existing lore hints, they could simply have chosen to create a place that doesn't have any lore attached to it in the first place. And if they needed to have the Deep-Sea Dragon close to that place, there's a perfectly fine unused landmass north-East of the Unending Ocean. Edited February 21, 2022 by Fueki.4753 1 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said: Cantha changing at all is not a problem. Some of the lead developers admitted to never having played Factions, so they now next to nothing of the feel of the continent. The problem is how it changed and that, instead of trying to understand it, they simply bulldozed over most of the lore threads that existed and then painted all over it with to suit their narrative. You don't know that. They've mentioned several times in the Guild Chat that the EoD story will explain how Cantha developed into what it is today. They obviously don't intend to spoil the story before release though, so you'll have to wait for that explanation for a few more days. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermute.5408 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: Not once have Arenanet given us any reason why they chose to make Cantha is so toxically green now. And no, "250 have passed" is no reason. At best it's circumventing the question due to their unwillingness to give us a real reason. What's the reason behind charr driving steam tanks? What's the reason behind Desolation being delosated? What's the reason things look the way they do and not some other way? 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just now, Rasimir.6239 said: You don't know that. They've mentioned several times in the Guild Chat that the EoD story will explain how Cantha developed into what it is today. They obviously don't intend to spoil the story before release though, so you'll have to wait for that explanation for a few more days. You didn't get the point. They never told is why they chose to go this direction and not any other. 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: You didn't get the point. They never told is why they chose to go this direction and not any other. Why should they do that? Do they now have to explain everything they do and why they do that? If you want to know why exactly they chose to change Cantha that way, maybe best to ask them directly. No one here will be able to tell you that. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: You didn't get the point. They never told is why they chose to go this direction and not any other. ...and they should do this because..? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said: ...and they should do this because..? At least it'd be nice to know what they were thinking when they chose to have unreasonably quick advancement of human technology in an insufficient time span for such advancement and why they believe that is idea. Play communication is always a good thing, but Arenanet doesn't seem to care about that. It could also helped with building more hype, a concept which which Arenanet completely dropped to the wayside. Saying something to the players would objectively have been better than remaining silent. Edited February 21, 2022 by Fueki.4753 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Unreasonably quick? Suddenly? Insufficient time span? Canthan tech was hinted as advanced since 2013. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermute.5408 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: At least it'd be nice to know what they were thinking when they chose to have unreasonably quick advancement of human technology in an insufficient time span for such advancement and why they believe that is idea. Play communication is always a good thing, but Arenanet doesn't seem to care about that. It could also helped with building more hype, a concept which which Arenanet completely dropped to the wayside. Saying something to the players would objectively have been better than remaining silent. From my experience of working with artists, they just thought it looks cool. Either the artists decided a concept is cool, and had writers write justifications for it, or the writers decided they have a cool idea, and had artists visualize it. Then their management concluded that it looks cool for them too, and that's it. It's one thing to not like the visuals presented. Yet you try to dig for reasons that, most likely, just aren't there. The unreasonably quick advancements already are kinda explained by dragonjade being that much of a powerhouse. But I'm willing to bet in reality they just wanted to make a megapolis map. Edited February 21, 2022 by Wintermute.5408 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said: Some people don't want to know the story behind it. However, some of us want to know the reason why Arenanet decided this leap in human technology was necessary. Not once have Arenanet given us any reason why they chose to make Cantha is so toxically green now. And no, "250 have passed" is no reason. At best it's circumventing the question due to their unwillingness to give us a real reason. Cantha changing at all is not a problem. Some of the lead developers admitted to never having played Factions, so they now next to nothing of the feel of the continent. The problem is how Cantha changed and that, instead of trying to understand why Cantha was such a often mentioned wish from players, they simply bulldozed over most of the lore threads that existed and then painted all over it to suit their narrative. If Arenanet wanted some hyper-advanced culture with no actual connection to existing lore hints, they could simply have chosen to create a place that doesn't have any lore attached to it in the first place. And if they needed to have the Deep-Sea Dragon close to that place, there's a perfectly fine unused landmass north-East of the Unending Ocean. Factually, it was one senior game designer that said she hadn't played Factions. Let's try not to exaggerate. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Chat_-_Episode_113 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Is there some Tyrian universe rule that progress must move at the same speed as it does on Earth? None whatsoever. The real world doesn’t have Gods from other dimensions/Worlds, magic or Dragons or multiple sentient races so it’s incomparable to the Tyrian progress. The 250 year explanation works just fine because it’s fiction/fantasy and a reasonable enough gap given all we know about the rapidly progressing World which is under constant pressure of conflict and disasters which naturally drive the need for new technology. Its been a long enough time frame for the tech to exist is all that matters. If people don’t like the style, that’s understandable, but the logic exists. Anet could have chosen any number of routes that also could have worked, but this is the vision and narrative they chose and it seems to fit just fine. They have been driving the technological progression theme since the start of GW2, so this is just ratcheting it up Edited February 21, 2022 by Randulf.7614 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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