Whats the big deal with mortar and grenades?

[Bewt.9258]

1 hour ago, Aravind.9610 said:

In pve it would hurt condi engineer yes

No it wouldn't. Throwing grenades behind you isn't necessarily for a condi engis rotation. It may be nice to have but I think it would be for the best if both grenade and mortar only shot fowards and I play condi engie in pve. 

[MrForz.1953]

Well it technically wouldn't hurt. Now... if the mechanic works as reliably as the Blowtorch I'd rather not have it. 

[Aravind.9610]

2 hours ago, Bailios.7518 said:

No it wouldn't. Throwing grenades behind you isn't necessarily for a condi engis rotation. It may be nice to have but I think it would be for the best if both grenade and mortar only shot fowards and I play condi engie in pve. 

It is useful at certain bosses where you need to move away sometimes, like Matthias

[GoldenPants.1870]

On 1/5/2022 at 12:02 PM, Shroud.2307 said:

it's the slowest projectile in the game (maybe besides Rocket). 

lets increase it to longbow 2 speed, only then can we watch the tears fall like a waterfall.

[Shroud.2307]

26 minutes ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

lets increase it to longbow 2 speed, only then can we watch the tears fall like a waterfall.

I know you were probably talking about Mortar Kit but, man, if Rocket was the same speed as Longbow arrows I would laugh myself silly and have all the fun in the world for the 24 hours it would take until ANet nerfed it. Rocket can get some crazy high crits, sometimes I like to just lurk at the back of zergs firing it off at random to see who it nearly one shots, lmao.

[GoldenPants.1870]

1 hour ago, Shroud.2307 said:

I know you were probably talking about Mortar Kit

Yeah I was, tho a what, 12k+ rocket flying at the speed of sanic would be pretty fun.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 1/2/2022 at 5:26 PM, GoldenPants.1870 said:

So busted they are the least played class. Even less than revenants.

Least played class like revenants.....-_-........xdd.....ever visited wvw or pvp? currently wvw especially is overrun by celestial scrappers, followed by renegades and thieves. It's all fun and games in using a player's made  up list but when considering actual numbers on the map, it shows a different picture 

[GoldenPants.1870]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

ever visited wvw or pvp? 

Daily, I see more of the other classes than I do engineer.

 

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

considering actual numbers on the map, it shows a different picture 

Nope, still same.

 

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

celestial scrappers

In which grenade barrage won't hit more than like 6k.

[SeTect.5918]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Least played class like revenants.....-_-........xdd.....ever visited wvw or pvp? currently wvw especially is overrun by celestial scrappers, followed by renegades and thieves. It's all fun and games in using a player's made  up list but when considering actual numbers on the map, it shows a different picture 

Well u said engineers are busted as hell. On the first page of this topic. Which also includes pve which is the biggest game mode.

PvP is the least played game mode. Yes there are lots of scrappers. And Flamethrower auto attackers r too op, I agree.
But thats Scrapper, not Engineer. Also here you said that pvp and wvw is overrun by celestial scrappers. No word about Holo or core engi.
So if you want to say that scrapper is busted as hell, say this and not that engi itself is, because it really isnt.

Why are grenades a problem? Because superspeed cele scrappers run around in wvw and throw their grenades behind them.
Thats Scrapper, Not holo, not core engi.

Its really the same when people say that revenant is op, guardian is op or necro is op. They arent. Its Scourge, Firebrand and Renegade that r op. Herald, DH and Reaper arent op.

However Scrapper is also only "op" in wvw and pvp. In PvE its not. Not even close to op tbh.

I also dont think that revenants r the least played profession. There are currently so many Renegades out there in PvE and WvW.
Engi is only one of the least played professions in PvE.

In WvW and PvP I really see a lot of scrappers too.

However Engineers are not busted.

Actually in WvW nerfing the superspeed uptime would already fix nearly all grenade issues.

I would like to know why engineers r so busted in your opinion.
Topic asked what the problem with grenade and mortar kit is and you said that Engineers r busted. You added really nothing to the discussion by that.
Wouldve been nice to know why engineers r so busted in your opinion?
It is bc of PvP and WvW only? And there even Scrapper only?

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Nades are broken in pvp and wvw (wvw especially). Every competent competitive main knows this. Nade autos out-damage even some melee autos while also being able to spam them at your feet/behind u. Every single nade skill should only be able to be thrown in the direction ur facing. 

[ollbirtan.2915]

Scrapper is not even close to meta in pvp. In WvW the only meta is support/heal scrapper.  In pve - not meta. What's all the fuss about scrapper? Tbh, both holo and scrapper have fair representation across all game modes...core engi however, does not. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:44 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Least played class like revenants.....-_-........xdd.....ever visited wvw or pvp? currently wvw especially is overrun by celestial scrappers, followed by renegades and thieves. It's all fun and games in using a player's made  up list but when considering actual numbers on the map, it shows a different picture 

 

I play WvW dailies to do my leg armour and Scrappers are much much less common than Guardian, Ranger and Thief (arguably making the top 3 of the most played class there). Then again you talk about made up list but you dont show any data yourself to support your claim, you just use your own made up list. However if we're talking about the most played class overall, Engineer is definitely the least played one, the top 3 being Guardian Necro and Warrior according to GW2 efficiency.

 

Now we are talking about celestial scrapper, then you shouldnt have any issue with the grenade barrage since it wont hit you for more than 7k. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Are you certain they're celestial?  I have a full Marauder scrapper that I take into WvW on occasion, and she has so many blocks and barrier generation that I can fight other players endlessly.  It also does... surprisingly low damage for a marauder build.  

[schloumou.3982]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:28 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Are you certain they're celestial?  I have a full Marauder scrapper that I take into WvW on occasion, and she has so many blocks and barrier generation that I can fight other players endlessly.  It also does... surprisingly low damage for a marauder build.  

Wrong traits/skills maybe.

 

[SeTect.5918]

6 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

Wrong traits/skills maybe.

 

On one hand, nearly all in that video just stood there like afk's.

+ 1 shotting guys waiting for veteran mob isnt really hard.

On the other hand grenade auto attack dmg is really a bit too much.

On the other other hand nearly all enemies there were already in fights and didnt expect someone to just 1shot them. I can also attack fighting players with my 1shot deadeye and just overrun them. Thats really no big deal.

That build also has nearly no condi remove. Its basically a build made for 1shots. You wont be able to hold on in a longer fight.

[ysnake.3619]

On 1/7/2022 at 3:51 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

Well u said engineers are busted as hell. On the first page of this topic. Which also includes pve which is the biggest game mode.

PvP is the least played game mode. Yes there are lots of scrappers. And Flamethrower auto attackers r too op, I agree.
But thats Scrapper, not Engineer. Also here you said that pvp and wvw is overrun by celestial scrappers. No word about Holo or core engi.
So if you want to say that scrapper is busted as hell, say this and not that engi itself is, because it really isnt.

Why are grenades a problem? Because superspeed cele scrappers run around in wvw and throw their grenades behind them.
Thats Scrapper, Not holo, not core engi.

Its really the same when people say that revenant is op, guardian is op or necro is op. They arent. Its Scourge, Firebrand and Renegade that r op. Herald, DH and Reaper arent op.

However Scrapper is also only "op" in wvw and pvp. In PvE its not. Not even close to op tbh.

I also dont think that revenants r the least played profession. There are currently so many Renegades out there in PvE and WvW.
Engi is only one of the least played professions in PvE.

In WvW and PvP I really see a lot of scrappers too.

However Engineers are not busted.

Actually in WvW nerfing the superspeed uptime would already fix nearly all grenade issues.

I would like to know why engineers r so busted in your opinion.
Topic asked what the problem with grenade and mortar kit is and you said that Engineers r busted. You added really nothing to the discussion by that.
Wouldve been nice to know why engineers r so busted in your opinion?
It is bc of PvP and WvW only? And there even Scrapper only?

 

Right on the point and I agree with all the statements.

 

The only thing that is making Scrapper (and to an extent Holo) broken is that Nades never got the mighty damage nerf. But, if nades were to be nerfed to doing low damage, Engis would have to be hard compensated on pretty much everything weapon-related (besides Holo in Holo mode, obv), since their weapon skills do kitten-poor damage (then again, in an ideal world, Engis shouldn't be able to do DH dumbassery while having their kit overloaded with utility) and since Anet was never the keenest on admitting proper buffs, what we would see is a rise of Condi Engis and we certainly don't need more Condi in WvW.

 

The main problem is the Superspeed Scrappers running around pressing "About Face" keybind and spaming 2-4-5-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 - it is NOT a fun playstyle, it is NOT fun to be killed by that. Even if they made it "boon-rippable", it wouldn't solve the issue as not many professions have boon rips, and Scrapper gets a ton of boons anyhow.

 

Also, this is mainly about WvW. PvP is a completely different beast and Holo's kit is too overloaded there (there's a reason it is such a meta build). High-end PvE, I am unfamiliar with, so I leave that to players who are.

[Kuma.1503]

Honestly, I don't see Scrapper as that big of a problem. If I had to point out the strongest classes In WvW it would be Ranger and Thief for roaming followed by Guardian because FB is god tier in zergs and DH is a good roamer while being arguably the best spec at killing thieves.  After that you could make a case for support scrapper because they're manditory in large squads. 

Overall, I'd say DPS Scrapper is fine. It sounds crazy in a vacuum but taking into account what else exists, it's... kinda fine.

Superspeed is cool, but this exists in the same world as Daredevil with dodge food, soulbeast with bird, DH with Trapper rune, and the rare herald with their ports, perma swiftness, and bonus in combat movespeed. 

Nade oneshots are cool, but the same people that works on would probably get one shot off their mount by a ranger (Shout out to the bug where you have the same defense as your mount for a split second after being dismounted). I frequently roam with a friend who plays soulbeast and he has this amusing habit of 100-0ing people before I have a chance to get in on the action. 

Alternatively, play theif and cheese kills with backstab -> heartseeker then yeet yourself across the map before anyone can retaliate. 

There's a lot of stuff that I would nerf before touching Scrapper in WvW. Unless we're talking support Scrapper then you've got a good argument there. AoE Superspeed, quickness, sneak gyro, and purity of purpose are kinda nuts, ngl. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[The Fear.3865]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:41 PM, ysnake.3619 said:

The main problem is the Superspeed Scrappers running around pressing "About Face" keybind and spaming 2-4-5-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 - it is NOT a fun playstyle, it is NOT fun to be killed by that. Even if they made it "boon-rippable", it wouldn't solve the issue as not many professions have boon rips, and Scrapper gets a ton of boons anyhow.

People doin that deserves to win, it's one of the most difficult advanced mechanic to learn and to master. 

Also, try nades and you will understand that it isn't about spamming 24511111.

It's probably the reason why we don't see many celestial nades scrappers or holo nades in wvw, because it's hard to master... 

[Telgum.6071]

What's the deal with mortar? Is it even relevant considering you could just go with grenades and save your elite skill for something more useful? 

[ysnake.3619]

2 hours ago, The Fear.3865 said:

People doin that deserves to win, it's one of the most difficult advanced mechanic to learn and to master. 

Also, try nades and you will understand that it isn't about spamming 24511111.

It's probably the reason why we don't see many celestial nades scrappers or holo nades in wvw, because it's hard to master... 

Unsure if sarcastic, if you aren't though, that's not really a difficult mechanic to learn - but I sense sarcasm. Like, I'd love for them to nerf grenades to the ground and buff everything else related to Engis, meaning their weapon skills (Holo is so much fun to play) while retaining the quirky utility-style that Engis are known for

 

1 hour ago, Telgum.6071 said:

What's the deal with mortar? Is it even relevant considering you could just go with grenades and save your elite skill for something more useful? 

Mortar is not really a thing in WvW against anyone who has a keyboard - it is a problem in sPvP to an extent that mortar shots cover almost the entirety of the point someone is trying to take - it is not a "problem", but really annoying to play against.

[The Fear.3865]

11 hours ago, ysnake.3619 said:

That's not really a difficult mechanic to learn 

It is. 

[ysnake.3619]

6 minutes ago, The Fear.3865 said:

It is. 

So, in order to do this you must:

0. Enable Free Camera (which everyone does anyhow)

1. Keep holding W

2. Hold left-click (make sure to move it just a tiny bit so the game recognizes you are holding it)

3. Press "About Face" keybind

4. Press right-click while holding left click (while holding W) to change direction

5. Repeat

 

For me, I press W with my middle finger, the "infamous" 2-4-5-1 combo is pressed by 4-5 with my pointing finger, 1 with my ring finger, and my About Face keybind is "C", which is pressed with my thumb.

 

It takes time to get used to, for sure, but is it something ridiculously difficult that players who can do that MUST win against anyone? No, no, it is not. It is a simple mechanic that can be clunky to use (then again, Engis are all about that "clunkiness" anyhow)

[The Fear.3865]

9 hours ago, ysnake.3619 said:

It takes time to get used to, for sure,

It took me months to be able to do it effectively in a pvp situation. I think it's extremly hard to be confortable with that like every other classic moves, the skill ceilling is crazy.

 

10 hours ago, ysnake.3619 said:

So, in order to do this you must:

0. Enable Free Camera (which everyone does anyhow)

1. Keep holding W

2. Hold left-click (make sure to move it just a tiny bit so the game recognizes you are holding it)

3. Press "About Face" keybind

4. Press right-click while holding left click (while holding W) to change direction

5. Repeat

 

For me, I press W with my middle finger, the "infamous" 2-4-5-1 combo is pressed by 4-5 with my pointing finger, 1 with my ring finger, and my About Face keybind is "C", which is pressed with my thumb.

I used to do that and had really hard times playing nades with that setup, if you hold left click, your mouse disappear and you can't aim with your nades. 

If you don't use free camera, you have to push and hold left click and as you said, move it a lil bit or it will often spin around and realign with you char.

But when you enable free camera, the idea is :
- Tap right click, the camera follows your char PoV.
- Tap left click, it doesnt and stays on your PoV.
So when free camera is on, you don't have to push and hold left click, you just need to tap left click anytime and then about face, your cursor does not disappear and you can still freely aim your target with your mouse. it's actually the whole point of free cam, if you hold left click you shouldnt go for free camera. It's almost impossible to be precise while your right hand (and your cursor) being stuck into this position imo.

 

10 hours ago, ysnake.3619 said:

but is it something ridiculously difficult that players who can do that MUST win against anyone? No, no, it is not. It is a simple mechanic that can be clunky to use (then again, Engis are all about that "clunkiness" anyhow)

I never said that, I wanted to say : if they won the fight, it's well deserved. It is not about bug abuse or unbalanced feature, it is an advanced move, extremly difficult to understand or to find any reliable information on how to do it, and even more to master. It's not even specific to engineers, high level necros and revenants have to use it a lot (but it's much harder on holo imo).

Just to be clear, I'm not sarcastic, english is not my native language, and i'm doing my best to be understandable 🙈

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 12/28/2021 at 3:48 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

nades are ranged aoe that doesnt require facing your target, and they have one of the highest damage auto attacks in the game. they are a hard counter to a lot of builds especially when you combine them with flashbang and explosive entrance.

mortar kit is just annoying because its 1500 range spam

Ranger Longbow is 1500 range spam (More then 1500 range actually), I don't see a problem with Mortar Kit.

[Milar.4930]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:13 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Because the instinctive reaction to anything that kills you is to scream for nerfs in the PVP subforum.

Well obviously if something killed me...it has to be overpowered....that is simple irrefutable logic   🧐😁