Perma Stealth Thiefs - What to do?

[MaLong.2079]

This is the way it is by design. It is working as intended and it is not going to change. Anet is trying to serve different types of players. Not everyone is a 'hardcore' player that enjoys intensive key smashing. Also, not everyone takes diying frequently well. These classes serve that population that will abandon a fight rather than diying in the game. They can leave it as it is for all I care.

What I would really like to see is the option to waypoint during combat in wvw for everyone not just some classes and builds.

[kash.9213]

5 minutes ago, MaLong.2079 said:

This is the way it is by design. It is working as intended and it is not going to change. Anet is trying to serve different types of players. Not everyone is a 'hardcore' player that enjoys intensive key smashing. #1 Also, not everyone takes diying frequently well. #2 These classes serve that population that will abandon a fight rather than diying in the game. They can leave it as it is for all I care.

What I would really like to see is the option to waypoint during combat in wvw for everyone not just some classes and builds.

#1 That doesn't make sense. Wouldn't players who are afraid to get killed rather play something that can hang in a blob and get carried? Complain about stealth all you like but if someone has stealth and doesn't use it they'll get exploded in seconds because people playing other classes aren't going to hold back anything and they're more likely to have a slot in a squad or group to keep them padded and buffed if they're in range. 

#2 I know this isn't an open world pvp game mode, but it's still red=dead unless I missed some patch notes. Every player would rather abandon a fight than die, that's why a lot of players pick a class that has a sure squad seat. What are you even on about?

[MaLong.2079]

3 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

#1 That doesn't make sense. Wouldn't players who are afraid to get killed rather play something that can hang in a blob and get carried? Complain about stealth all you like but if someone has stealth and doesn't use it they'll get exploded in seconds because people playing other classes aren't going to hold back anything and they're more likely to have a slot in a squad or group to keep them padded and buffed if they're in range. 

#2 I know this isn't an open world pvp game mode, but it's still red=dead unless I missed some patch notes. Every player would rather abandon a fight than die, that's why a lot of players pick a class that has a sure squad seat. What are you even on about?

The problem is that not all builds can abandon fights with ease or chase after those that can to finish them when they are winning. So I want the ability to waypoint during combat so I can finish the fights that I am wining and abandon the ones that I am losing. Is not as good as disappearing to reset and trying again but I will take it.

BTW,  "...if someone has stealth and doesn't use it they'll get exploded in seconds..." --> Not my experience.  There would be a lot less complains against stealth if they could actually get exploded in seconds as you say.

[kash.9213]

29 minutes ago, MaLong.2079 said:

The problem is that not all builds can abandon fights with ease or chase after those that can to finish them when they are winning. So I want the ability to waypoint during combat so I can finish the fights that I am wining and abandon the ones that I am losing. Is not as good as disappearing to reset and trying again but I will take it.

BTW,  "...if someone has stealth and doesn't use it they'll get exploded in seconds..." --> Not my experience.  There would be a lot less complains against stealth if they could actually get exploded in seconds as you say.

That thief is likely to have a group or a squad roll up on them and even some single builds will melt them but even if they were a little tankier, there would still be a plethora of people running out there with glass zerg builds with no pulls or any stops who would still complain about stealth. Also, most builds with stealth in it aren't doing what you claim stealth builds do. Make a case to the devs to do something about the few problematic builds. If you're going to just make broad lazy statements then you're just being childish and complaining just to complain. 

[Svarty.8019]

All stealth should go. There's nothing fun about it, it's not "skillful gameplay". It's horseshit.

[SweetPotato.7456]

Nothing, I've been given the perma invisible thief build, frankly, if someone wants to perma invisible, go ahead, it's a freaking boring build and if someone wants to spent their time hiding and annoying other players, instead of going out to get more gold/loots, I'd say let them.

Edited March 28, 2022 by SweetPotato.7456

[Littlekenny.4196]

13 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

#2 I know this isn't an open world pvp game mode, but it's still red=dead unless I missed some patch notes. Every player would rather abandon a fight than die, that's why a lot of players pick a class that has a sure squad seat. What are you even on about?

"Every player would rather abandon a fight than die"

That's statement isn't true.

[Littlekenny.4196]

11 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Nothing, I've been given the perma invisible thief build, frankly, if someone wants to perma invisible, go ahead, it's a freaking boring build and if someone wants to spent their time hiding and annoying other players, instead of going out to get more gold/loots, I'd say let them.

I disagree that 1 player should have the kit to be able to annoy multiple players for an extended period of time as that is just toxic and when it comes to a t3 keep, people either have to keep hunting the thief and be annoyed, or lose the keep and also be annoyed.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

I'll tell you a small secret on player versus player combat: the guy with the initiative usually, if not always, has the upper hand. 

Initiative is best gained when you're playing confidently. Confidence applies pressure and depletes opposing initiative.

How most players react when thief goes into stealth:
- Not knowing how to react.
- Now knowing what to do.
- Giving THEM the initiative, in full.

Piece that puzzle together. It's not that hard at the end of the day.

[Jeydra.4386]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:06 PM, Avion Blade.4869 said:

Here's how I deal with thieves as mesmer.  (Mirage in the vid.) The fight vs. a daredevil that cloaks a lot is the second video in the OP. It ends with a draw, but it could've gone either way. Build description is in one of the latest posts I put.  Keep in mind this is for mesmers going mirage. 

If that's the best video available then it illustrates why Thief is broken. You can't kill them, since if they ever come close to dying they'll just stealth and run and there's no way you'll catch them. Meanwhile, they can kill you if you screw up. You could say the duel was a draw, but it's not really a draw.

This doesn't count the even more stupid "I'll perma-stealth in your keep in full Nomad's gear and threaten a portal if you don't deal with me" thing that they can do.

Thieves in WvW need less stealth, less mobility, or both.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Jeydra.4386

[Vortigern.1987]

Change the portal-skill into a personal port (for wvw only) and the op's problem is solved, while the skill retains it's value for solo-players. The original post was about zergs getting ported beyond the walls, right in front of the keep lord and not about fighting thieves in actual fights. A better balancing for the class itself is a topic for another thread (or multiple threads, to be realistic).

Edited March 29, 2022 by Vortigern.1987

[SWLDguitar.5746]

A solution would be to have certain guards have dog packs, which would be able to detect stealth units and place stealth units at the top of their aggro tables.  The dogs would be drawn to stealthing units at a walking pace - ramping up as more stealths are used. For example 1-5 stealths used, the dogs would walk towards the target, 6-12 stealths swiftness pace, 12+ superspeed pace.

The dogs attacks always reveal stealthed units and the initial attack would be a hard cc to the units and alert more dogs/guards to the area and apply a debuff that would prevent stealthing for 3 minutes.

Then thieves still get to keep their abilities and the 1 thief can't hold a keep hostage for a decade.  Hurts the perma-stealth kitten but allows healthy-amounts of stealth to remain.

Edited March 29, 2022 by SWLDguitar.5746

[ens.9854]

15 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

All stealth should go. There's nothing fun about it, it's not "skillful gameplay". It's horseshit.

I'm getting close to agreeing with this. Stealth is not even at its most oppressive on thief, I'd say it is much more obnoxious on ranger (slb/druid). Current SLB burst from stealth is near levels of what started the original thief nerf train (let's not mention that 30k 1-shots still exist with stealth SLB bear form). Close second is nade burst holo. DH is also pretty bad. For thief it's the interaction of stealth + blind that ends up hard-countering some builds with very low risk... but what do they ALL have in common?

[kash.9213]

43 minutes ago, Legendary Defender.5631 said:

Just putting relevant threads back on front page before theyre forgotten to obscurity lol

The same few threads that have been flooded and spammed consistently for like a year or more aren't obscure and you're not adding anything. 

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

My moto with stealth players is, If I can't single burst it, I ignore it.

But, thief having perma stealth and portal makes capping tower/keep easier. I tried many times to hunt theif stealthing in keep but it just massive waste of my playtime.

I just ignore it now.

[Virdo.1540]

23 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

My moto with stealth players is, If I can't single burst it, I ignore it.

But, thief having perma stealth and portal makes capping tower/keep easier. I tried many times to hunt theif stealthing in keep but it just massive waste of my playtime.

I just ignore it now.

So you would just give keeps or towers for free to those thiefs. Which means thieves are too strong when it comes to the normal wvw mechanic - taking stuff and getting points for the server.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Virdo.1540

[Sahne.6950]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:07 AM, MaLong.2079 said:

The problem is that not all builds can abandon fights with ease or chase after those that can to finish them when they are winning. So I want the ability to waypoint during combat so I can finish the fights that I am wining and abandon the ones that I am losing. Is not as good as disappearing to reset and trying again but I will take it.

BTW,  "...if someone has stealth and doesn't use it they'll get exploded in seconds..." --> Not my experience.  There would be a lot less complains against stealth if they could actually get exploded in seconds as you say.

how can a post that demands waypointing while in combat get 2 postive responses!?

So i can finish the fights that i am winning.....     Do you realise that you are never ever going to finish a fight again, if your opponents can just waypoint before they die? This goes both ways buddy. Also stacking sigils would be completly overtuned all of a sudden, because you are never going to loose your stack. Alot of the ideas here are so shortsighted...

What is going on in this Thread!?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:25 PM, Jeydra.4386 said:

You can't kill them, since if they ever come close to dying they'll just stealth and run and there's no way you'll catch them.

Alot of people here make it sound like "NOT A SINGLE THIEF HAS BEEN KILLED SINCE THE RELEASE OF GW2"  I agree.... a thief that is not greeding and playing defensivly is VERY hard to catch, but its not impossible. Especially if he has wasted utilitys while trying to kill you, there is room for you to chase and kill him. Everyone that is complaining about thief has to just play it for one day... and tell me afterwards with a straight face that they have not died a single time.

GUYS... in all honesty.....  if you die to a thief in a 1vs1 scenario.... you got outskilled.... HARD. No reason to be mad... the thief was just better than you. Accept that and move on.

I will FARM "Confused" for saying this... but anything other than mesmer (teef is hardcounter to mesmer) should not loose a 1v1 if you guys are both equally skilled. I myself have lost numerous fights to a thief, but that is not because the thief is blatantly overpowered, or because he was abusing stealth, bla bla. It is because i paniced/missplayed/or got straight up outsmarted/outskilled. Thief is not as busted as you guys make it look like. Just play Daredevil for a day and tell me if you suddenly have turned into god.

I am sorry, but there is SO MANY BRAINFARTS in this thread, its mindblowing.

Let me just solve this whole Thread real fast! The main problem here is that thiefs can permastealth in keep and teleport people in it if you dont deal with him.  ->Solution: Portals can no longer teleport people over closed walls. This would further limit the ways of playing WvW, but heck if thats what people want...

can we now please stop trying to kill Thief? Thanks.

-sincerely, someone that is not even playing thief.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Alcatraznc.3869]

8 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

So you would just get keeps or towers for free to those thiefs. Which means thieves are too strong when it comes to the normal wvw mechanic - taking stuff and getting points for the server.

 

Tbh this isnt just a thief issue. All classes that have access to lots of mobility and concealment are pretty much unkillable if you're not yoloing. Chasing thief or mesmer is very annoying if you're not a thief or mesmer yourself.  At least Anet added that reveal thing when a keep has been captured so you dont have to spend 5 min chasing for the stealth thief or mesmer camping within your wall.

 

 

 

 

[Burial.1958]

Every class can run when you set auto attack on off and use your leap skills as escaper.  Can't tell how much revs escaping because they spamm their kitten with all those boons and are nearly unkillable. Anyone remember the usain bolt warriors?

 

The whole discussion is simply anti thief. Perma stealth lol and what is with all those perma boons? Condis? Do any other class have guards, watchtowers and traps who take boons away like thiefs stealth? 😄

Edited April 7, 2022 by Grebcol.5984

[Sahne.6950]

39 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

Every class can run when you set auto attack on off and use your leap skills as escaper.  Can't tell how much revs escaping because they spamm their kitten with all those boons and are nearly unkillable. Anyone remember the usain bolt warriors?

 

The whole discussion is simply anti thief. Perma stealth lol and what is with all those perma boons? Condis? Do any other class have guards, watchtowers and traps who take boons away like thiefs stealth? 😄

There is boonstrip DUUUHH!!! 🤪

no seriously... you hit the nail on the head.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Virdo.1540]

10 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Tbh this isnt just a thief issue. All classes that have access to lots of mobility and concealment are pretty much unkillable if you're not yoloing. Chasing thief or mesmer is very annoying if you're not a thief or mesmer yourself.  At least Anet added that reveal thing when a keep has been captured so you dont have to spend 5 min chasing for the stealth thief or mesmer camping within your wall.

 

 

 

 

imo mesmer is nowhere near comparable to thief. 

[Virdo.1540]

11 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Alot of people here make it sound like "NOT A SINGLE THIEF HAS BEEN KILLED SINCE THE RELEASE OF GW2"  I agree.... a thief that is not greeding and playing defensivly is VERY hard to catch, but its not impossible. Especially if he has wasted utilitys while trying to kill you, there is room for you to chase and kill him. Everyone that is complaining about thief has to just play it for one day... and tell me afterwards with a straight face that they have not died a single time.

GUYS... in all honesty.....  if you die to a thief in a 1vs1 scenario.... you got outskilled.... HARD. No reason to be mad... the thief was just better than you. Accept that and move on.

I will FARM "Confused" for saying this... but anything other than mesmer (teef is hardcounter to mesmer) should not loose a 1v1 if you guys are both equally skilled. I myself have lost numerous fights to a thief, but that is not because the thief is blatantly overpowered, or because he was abusing stealth, bla bla. It is because i paniced/missplayed/or got straight up outsmarted/outskilled. Thief is not as busted as you guys make it look like. Just play Daredevil for a day and tell me if you suddenly have turned into god.

I am sorry, but there is SO MANY BRAINFARTS in this thread, its mindblowing.

Let me just solve this whole Thread real fast! The main problem here is that thiefs can permastealth in keep and teleport people in it if you dont deal with him.  ->Solution: Portals can no longer teleport people over closed walls. This would further limit the ways of playing WvW, but heck if thats what people want...

can we now please stop trying to kill Thief? Thanks.

-sincerely, someone that is not even playing thief.

Its not that thief players are hard to catch and "outskill" others. If the maximum skill ceiling of almost every class is not able to catch up with mediocre thief players, due to quick epic range teleports, perma stealth and full healing every couple of seconds, its not a l2p issue. Its not even hard to be unkillable ,especially since no classes can oneshot it anymore, so its so much more forgiving to have slow reflexes on thief. The one and main problem with thief is just permastealth. Never seeing where a thief is inside any tower ,keep or castle while in roaming situations, if you actually managed to get a big hit into your health, you just go permastealth, keep enemys in fight and wait until your healskill is ready to heal you up. There is no build thats anywhere near an shadow-arts build when it comes to an braindead playstyle.

[smiiirf.3201]

25 minutes ago, Virdo.1540 said:

Its not that thief players are hard to catch and "outskill" others. If the maximum skill ceiling of almost every class is not able to catch up with mediocre thief players, due to quick epic range teleports, perma stealth and full healing every couple of seconds, its not a l2p issue. Its not even hard to be unkillable ,especially since no classes can oneshot it anymore, so its so much more forgiving to have slow reflexes on thief. The one and main problem with thief is just permastealth. Never seeing where a thief is inside any tower ,keep or castle while in roaming situations, if you actually managed to get a big hit into your health, you just go permastealth, keep enemys in fight and wait until your healskill is ready to heal you up. There is no build thats anywhere near an shadow-arts build when it comes to an braindead playstyle.

 Slow reflexes on thief c'mon that is the first time in 10 years that i read that. This class is the class where the player should have big reflexes and timing. Really absurd what you wrote here.

Yeah and thats why Thief is one of the classes with a higher skillcap and all other classes don't have brainded 0815 rotations?

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Leolas.6273

[smiiirf.3201]

34 minutes ago, Virdo.1540 said:

imo mesmer is nowhere near comparable to thief. 

 

Now then you never met a troll Mesmer then.