So er, are people content with Core Legends being dogshit in Competitive? A Shiro discussion.

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

The profession is already unique and wanting to shoehorn the idea that Revenant is not supposed to have cooldowns while using skills back and forth constantly at all is not going work.

Adding 7 seconds to a skill is abit too much of a step away from how Revenant is supposed to work. 
They are meant to have utilities on a shorter cooldown because the Legend (stance) they are in is indicative of their current playstyle. 

Mallyx embodies a Condi Tank playstyle
Jallis embodies a Bruiser Tank playstyle
Ventari embodies a Sustained Healer playstyle
Shiro embodies a mobile Assassin playstyle

If Anet wanted to balance the Legends they should do it so that the time spent in that specific "Stance" fulfils the intention of entering that stance.
This is why Legends have low cooldown utilities and have an Energy System to restrict them, because they are essentially playing a "mini class" by entering a Legend. 

What we have right now though, is rapidly flipping between two Legends because not doing so puts us at a strict disadvantage, partly because of the fact that alot of Rev skills take so much Energy you need to switch in order to refresh your resource. 

The only builds that don't have this issue is Core which actually has Echo to restore Energy in their current Legend and Herald which doesn't even use Energy for their actives in Glint. 

 

Over the years Revenant stopped being about "What Legend do I use for my current intention" more like "What build am I and which two Legend pairs up the best so that me Legend flipping between the two feels the least disruptive" 

Honestly, I'll go ahead and say Revenant as a whole need a serious rework.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:01 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

Just because metabuilds  dont use them doesnt mean that those traits are bad or in bad state 🙂 , there are people that can play pretty well  w/o copy paste builds.

Ill keep sayign rev issue is enerngy price on some skills and i might add that  jalis elite and traited its just amazing... if people dont  realize how broken the mechanics involved on it and what this skill affects  on WvW, i wont  explain either.

atm i think the worse performing legend on rev m8 be herald that has been completelly swaped with renegades, core suffers from a bit of energy creep moments withing some skills that could be lessened on energy consumption, dont forget that skills on rev have both energy management and CD's.

 

 

And that is why for rev playes the EoD expantion means End of Dodges....  runing away is for bendover guardian  spec...

 

Well Vindicator is actually pretty good at running away as well as chasing people down. But I am not sure exactly what it's role is going to be yet

[Aeolus.3615]

18 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

I agree, I really liked the new alliance stance, not a big fan of the whole dodge mechanic but I definitely find vindicator more engaging than renegade over the betas, just hope the meta doesn't end up settling on jalis + shiro.

I fear that's what gona happen, and i would even bet that players will want the new thief auto atack support to be a aoe spammer as well later on game, to stack to all the current aoe stacked support.

Btw vindicator damage VS sustain on wvw wasnt that good either during the betta, so far the only classes we will see on WvW will be the new mesmer, necro, and thief, everything else is somewhat close to fall from the cliff, due how some HoT and PoF specs overwhelm easilly others.

Edit: i think we need to check 1st what new stats Anet is bringing to the table so see if vindicator or rev can fit in the group, meanwhile ill continue to use my Herald healer build :P on WvW  and scare my alies.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

17 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Stop asking for ridiculous buffs, Shiro is in a good position and doesn't need much of a change. Impossible Odds is at best the only thing that needs to be tweaked in the upkeep cost. Anything else is bug fixes that makes things such as IR Initial Stability/hitbox inconsistency or Aggressive Agility being inconsistent alongside not working with Phase Smash.

 

Mallyx is what really needs to be properly addressed. Charged Mists requires a complete rework and should be a plain increase in the energy cap to 75% rather than even have this stupid requirement.

 

Big L2P issues if you think Core Revenant is underpowered.

 

Ventari is good only if you team actually knows that spastically running around doesn't help them while healing unless it's getting out of an AoE. The legend could use an initial tether but is otherwise great with good teams.

Any healing and cleansing you get from the tablet will immediately be negated by necros revs and holos throwing all their aoe on it. Having to stand still in a small area for support hasnt worked since people were blasting water fields.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

While I do think Shiro is fine overall as per my original comment, Phase Traversal at 12s CD is ridiculous and really hurts the flow of the legend. I would prefer the CD be reduced to 8 or 9s if they really feel the skill deserves to have such a high CD.  The energy cost is already enormous, so the only thing the CD does is put a hard limit on the skill which I don’t think is actually necessary for it given that it isn’t spammable as is.  This feels to me like the same sort of overnerf that thief received when Infiltrator’s Arrow’s cost was massively increased 

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Any healing and cleansing you get from the tablet will immediately be negated by necros revs and holos throwing all their aoe on it. Having to stand still in a small area for support hasnt worked since people were blasting water fields.

That's because as Rev you don't want to clear until the peak of anyone's presssure which is what people struggle with, that's what RtoGD is good for. Hammer can also spam clears in a AoE, it's not a matter of standing still being if someone is in need of support to not run away in random direction, go towards the people that can help you, that goes for any kind of support and exclusively why Guardian works well enough, Virtues active AoE is way too big and requires no coordination whatsoever.

 

Holosmith has to be the most laughable thing to counter as Ventari, nade spam is utterly useless and Hammer adds much more insult to their kit.

 

Although to make it clear, Ventari didn't need to have it's CC nerfed "and" CD added to the elite, only one or the other. It's unfortunate that it had to get shafted this badly.

8 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Adding 7 seconds to a skill is abit too much of a step away from how Revenant is supposed to work. 
They are meant to have utilities on a shorter cooldown because the Legend (stance) they are in is indicative of their current playstyle. 

Mallyx embodies a Condi Tank playstyle
Jallis embodies a Bruiser Tank playstyle
Ventari embodies a Sustained Healer playstyle
Shiro embodies a mobile Assassin playstyle

If Anet wanted to balance the Legends they should do it so that the time spent in that specific "Stance" fulfils the intention of entering that stance.
This is why Legends have low cooldown utilities and have an Energy System to restrict them, because they are essentially playing a "mini class" by entering a Legend. 

What we have right now though, is rapidly flipping between two Legends because not doing so puts us at a strict disadvantage, partly because of the fact that alot of Rev skills take so much Energy you need to switch in order to refresh your resource. 

The only builds that don't have this issue is Core which actually has Echo to restore Energy in their current Legend and Herald which doesn't even use Energy for their actives in Glint. 

 

Over the years Revenant stopped being about "What Legend do I use for my current intention" more like "What build am I and which two Legend pairs up the best so that me Legend flipping between the two feels the least disruptive" 

Honestly, I'll go ahead and say Revenant as a whole need a serious rework.

No, you're supposed to have other utility available in a short time after using them and not instantly, which is how it works currently, to pick in between them is the essential aspect with Weapons as an offset to keep yourself going after using said utility, you want Revenant to be something else that it ain't by asking for utilities being available at all times.

 

The CD's and high costs are there to balance the fact that if we had none we'd be untouchable, super cheesy or have to spam useless skills, much of HoT can speak for itself when Riposting Shadows and Empty Vessel were stupidly OP while making the best choice of traitline super limited.

 

Borrowing from legends together back and forth is how it should be (Which is why Skillflips in Vindicator should stay and have more control to them rather than a third legend swap all alone.) and if you want to camp legends like I said earlier, rework Charged Mists to increase the initial energy cap to 75% at all times with no requirements which alleviate most of the cost complains under a fair trade. I prefer Song of the Mist by a long shot because it acts like an extra skill on it's own per swap, while current even proper PvE Charged Mists is still a joke with the requirements because you have to cast anyway. At least the take away here is that if you Phase Traversal you will be able to stunbreak if you get countered which is what feels like everyone is on about, but here's the thing, that weakness can be taken care of if you want to compromise which is what matters here, compromises.

 

Phase Traversal is already powerful enough as it is, quite literally the only skill in game that can be used so often and cover this much range. Do you play PvP? Do you know that with only 5sec CD you could basically be in all fights at anytime? Those limits aren't unfair, they actually make a lot of sense. Much of the same can be said with IR having 15 seconds CD, it's a heavy hitter than provides sustain, eventually you have to put brakes on the train.

 

Herald have had no rights to complain for as long as Infuse Light was 3 seconds, seriously. That skill is the reason why Mallyx got shafted so hard until they finally realized it was the issue all along with the sustain. There are still stupid things like the instant cast of F2 Shiro or Reveal only applying on stealth that needs to be changed accordingly to take away cheese and bad designs altogether. Gaze of Darkness was only 240 radius before and it worked better than it's current annoying 600 radius.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Phase Traversal is already powerful enough as it is, quite literally the only skill in game that can be used so often and cover this much range. Do you play PvP? Do you know that with only 5sec CD you could basically be in all fights at anytime? Those limits aren't unfair, they actually make a lot of sense. Much of the same can be said with IR having 15 seconds CD, it's a heavy hitter than provides sustain, eventually you have to put brakes on the train.

Honestly don't see the point of this argument considering Thief can also teleport really often as they wish and at an even higher capacity than Revenant does. Except when Thief does it, they don't instantly destroy their entire Ini bar. Revenant PTs once from a fresh 50 and all they have is probably one skill cast before needing to use Autos while their Energy regenerates. 

If the issue is skill usage rate, why make it 35 energy AND 12s cooldown? If the cooldown was this high, I feel that the energy cost should be balanced down, say 25-30 Energy so that you are starved the moment you PT. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Herald have had no rights to complain for as long as Infuse Light was 3 seconds, seriously. That skill is the reason why Mallyx got shafted so hard until they finally realized it was the issue all along with the sustain. There are still stupid things like the instant cast of F2 Shiro or Reveal only applying on stealth that needs to be changed accordingly to take away cheese and bad designs altogether. Gaze of Darkness was only 240 radius before and it worked better than it's current annoying 600 radius.

 

It's well known to all Rev players that Anet just nerfs Core for the problems that Elites bring. It sucks and we've been asking Anet to address the issues themselves. All we get is Incensed Nerf and Core Legend nerfs. Then they refuse to balance Core Legends or make them worse indirectly (remember Mallyx upon the Resistance rework? Actual big lmao times) 

[Buran.3796]

13 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Energy fits in perfectly and demands the player to make proper decisions rather than always having the best option in reach without a legend swap, you don't have an excess like Herald over there which has constantly too much Energy which strays so far away from what Revenant truly is, seeing the Energy completely maxed out is embarassing.

   If auto attacks are always the best ofesive option due how crappy for damage are the alternatives makes perfect sense that energy overflows, specially with Glint, which skills essentialy works as signets.

   Is also embarrasing to see the hammer turned into a defensive weapon (which obviously won't be used due the staff fills better that role).  But is what it is.

[Shao.7236]

13 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   If auto attacks are always the best ofesive option due how crappy for damage are the alternatives makes perfect sense that energy overflows, specially with Glint, which skills essentialy works as signets.

   Is also embarrasing to see the hammer turned into a defensive weapon (which obviously won't be used due the staff fills better that role).  But is what it is.

I'm using hammer all the time, I don't get what you mean by lack of damage or being defensive, it's quite oppressive if used right despite the bugs. Revenant as Core can easily shut down people in less than 2 seconds if they are glassy. Herald is no different except that no one ever bother playing with Upkeep and rather use skills right away. Herald is favored because it's not convoluted with the most of the Revenant profession mechanics.

 

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Honestly don't see the point of this argument considering Thief can also teleport really often as they wish and at an even higher capacity than Revenant does. Except when Thief does it, they don't instantly destroy their entire Ini bar. Revenant PTs once from a fresh 50 and all they have is probably one skill cast before needing to use Autos while their Energy regenerates. 

If the issue is skill usage rate, why make it 35 energy AND 12s cooldown? If the cooldown was this high, I feel that the energy cost should be balanced down, say 25-30 Energy so that you are starved the moment you PT. 

 

 

 

It's well known to all Rev players that Anet just nerfs Core for the problems that Elites bring. It sucks and we've been asking Anet to address the issues themselves. All we get is Incensed Nerf and Core Legend nerfs. Then they refuse to balance Core Legends or make them worse indirectly (remember Mallyx upon the Resistance rework? Actual big lmao times) 

Thief has other skills it ain't just one skill and if we are to use the one that's on repeat, Infiltrator's Arrow. They can only cover about the same distance Revenant can under the same cooldown and that's not counting the other skills Revenant can use as well. However Thief is a medium armor and has less health, eventually those are the compromises to be made because those two are definitely not under the same league.

 

Out of all that's being said, you're also forgetting how fast Energy comes back, to say that you ended up using 50% energy and have nothing else is exaggerating, by the time you're engaged and done both of those skills you already have 15% back and on going.

 

Revenant energy as it currently is, really sharp on the edges and it's ability to do follow ups are perfectly carved out. I'm not sure of what you want other than having an overabundance.

[Virdo.1540]

Shiro is just in a bad shape in almost every game mode. The Skills are overloaded with pretty much useless stuff, thus they decided to crank up the energy to high levels, that feels like Sh*t to play. 

 

They should remove useless stuff like 

-the 2Stacks of unblockable + the "unblockable" itself on Phase Traversal

-the Fury on Riposting Shadows

-the stupid little endurance-gain on riposting shadows

-the already garbage dmg of Jade Winds (instead make it grant more stacks of vulvn, so the effect is actually devastating as it should be, with the epic long animation before)

 

  & make the energy-costs reasonable again. This counts for all gamemodes.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Virdo.1540

[Buran.3796]

21 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I'm using hammer all the time, I don't get what you mean by lack of damage or being defensive, it's quite oppressive if used right despite the bugs. Revenant as Core can easily shut down people in less than 2 seconds if they are glassy. Herald is no different except that no one ever bother playing with Upkeep and rather use skills right away. Herald is favored because it's not convoluted with the most of the Revenant profession mechanics.

  Let's see: we have a 1.75" cast skill which does 10 points of damage in full zerk (up to 5 targets, so we can deliver 50 points of damage!); we have a projectile block which can be up at least 50% of the time (not that useful in the cuerrent PvP meta, but is what it is); we have a heavy hitting skill with a 1.25" cast time which can't be affected by quickness which also has a very telling animation so is more useful at avoiding damage than providing it, and then we have a utterly unreliable hammer #2. 

   Yep, seems a defensive weapon to me. 

[Shao.7236]

58 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Let's see: we have a 1.75" cast skill which does 10 points of damage in full zerk (up to 5 targets, so we can deliver 50 points of damage!); we have a projectile block which can be up at least 50% of the time (not that useful in the cuerrent PvP meta, but is what it is); we have a heavy hitting skill with a 1.25" cast time which can't be affected by quickness which also has a very telling animation so is more useful at avoiding damage than providing it, and then we have a utterly unreliable hammer #2. 

   Yep, seems a defensive weapon to me. 

I disagree with everything other than inconsistent CoR, is slower, lacks sound and the fact point blank fails and needs to be fixed, Hammer has it's place.

Phase Smash doesn't work with Aggressive Agility which needs to be fixed as well.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Yasai.3549]

3 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

 Yep, seems a defensive weapon to me. 

Calling it a weapon is overstating its ability. 
It's a glorified walking stick which happens to have a reliable auto, and doubly bad in WvW zerging.

I guess that's why people are now leaning toward SB Renegade for PvP and even WvW in some cases because there really is no merit to running Hammer for a kitten projectile, especially when Spirit Crush is such big unga bunga damage which is also targeted AoE. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Scoobaniec.9561]

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I disagree with everything other than inconsistent CoR, is slower, lacks sound and the fact point blank fails and needs to be fixed, Hammer has it's place.

Phase Smash doesn't work with Aggressive Agility which needs to be fixed as well.

I could bring my rusty booty and kill those ppl without equipped weapons (been there done that btw). Since when garbage montage of fighting bronzes are used to prove a point?

Hammer is hot garbage and using any skill from Shiro deletes ur energy bar for some reason. How it is again any good?

 

 

 

Also like mentioned above i also agree with rev needing fundamental rework. Legend system was meant to be used as a playstyle switching to adjust ur skills in combat but instead you have to switch legend as soon as possible to gain energy which doesnt regenerate fast enough using weapon skills alone

[Shao.7236]

38 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

I could bring my rusty booty and kill those ppl without equipped weapons (been there done that btw). Since when garbage montage of fighting bronzes are used to prove a point?

Hammer is hot garbage and using any skill from Shiro deletes ur energy bar for some reason. How it is again any good?

 

 

 

Also like mentioned above i also agree with rev needing fundamental rework. Legend system was meant to be used as a playstyle switching to adjust ur skills in combat but instead you have to switch legend as soon as possible to gain energy which doesnt regenerate fast enough using weapon skills alone

Ah the classic excuse of someone that doesn't even play the game. I guess playing Tops doesn't matter either. Not that I took interest in showing off fights that could last for minutes but rather wanted to be short and sweet with the possibilities as pretty much ANY montages do.

 

Let's see the claims;

>Hammer deals no damage.

Factually there was hits up to 10k.

>Hammer has no sustain.

Literally the strongest projectile hate uptime in the game in one skill.

>Hammer is slow and impractical.

Phase Smash can safely maximize Song of the Mists for great sustain or quickness. Alleviating all issues with latter skills.

>It's a defensive weapon.

When do you see any professions with ranged options not play defensively away from targets? Even though they can deliver damage? Because that's all there is to do, there's no reason to be in the face of anyone with a ranged weapon.

 

The skill issues are objectively shown with footage and evident situations. Shiro is not in need of a rework, nor is anything about Revenant, bug fixes otherwise are needed with small oversight changes.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Shiro needs no rework, and any buff it could get is minor. Reverting the PT cooldown which wasn't even needed may be enough. 

Dwarf is alright. They need to fix the bug on IR though. Randomly fails to cast, and has random lag in between stacks. Fix the bug and put the stab to 1.5 second and dwarf is fine. 

Mallyx is in an odd spot. The range on the pull is huge, but everything else about mallyx is underwhelming. This makes mallyx great for fighting alongside support, but kind of bad everywhere else. You can make an OK tank build with it in PvP but that's only because rabid amulet is borked. IMO it could probably be fixed by making the heal consume damaging conditions.

Ventari is absolute trash. 100% Garbage. Needs a total rework. Revs basically currently have 3 core legends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

10 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

(...)

When do you see any professions with ranged options not play defensively away from targets? Even though they can deliver damage? Because that's all there is to do, there's no reason to be in the face of anyone with a ranged weapon.

(...)

Wowowow easy Shao are u telling that rangers double  longbow melee range are playing the game wrongly!? 

@Master Ketsu.4569

i would not call it a rework(sounds to heavy that word)but a QoL analysis, gain decent trade offs for being heavy energy and  heavy e-management, the EoD legends have similiar  shiro  utils and better and barely use any energy.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Buran.3796]

21 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I disagree with everything other than inconsistent CoR, is slower, lacks sound and the fact point blank fails and needs to be fixed, Hammer has it's place.

Phase Smash doesn't work with Aggressive Agility which needs to be fixed as well.

   You're very skilled and I admire your dedication to off meta builds (I was aware of both things) but take a look at YOUR OWN WORDS about the hammer in both the description of the video and the comments: you're not happy with it  in his current state.

   Neither me, or anyone in the whole Rev subforum.

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   You're very skilled and I admire your dedication to off meta builds (I was aware of both things) but take a look at YOUR OWN WORDS about the hammer in both the description of the video and the comments: you're not happy with it  in his current state.

   Neither me, or anyone in the whole Rev subforum.

I do believe in improvements, but to ask for complete rework and big changes isn't ever going to work. As it is, I already have to defend Revenant from being nerfed to nothingness and prove that it's balanced, doing the the opposite in it's own sub forum the otherway around is something I wish I didn't have to do either because I truly and genuinely want the class to be better for the right reasons, most of what breaks Revenant is the bugs within rather than design choices outsixd Mallyx, since to be real with you, there is already many unique aspects that nobody grasp and no matter fails to play around with users and adversaries alike.

 

Hammer is slow but it doesn't fail to do what it's meant to do in concept, it's consistency and lack of possibility up close is the only real problem with CoR and it is really necessary at best that point blank, sound and further more fragile reach of damage be checked properly by the devs. It would be much easier and reliable to use afterwards, that's my real complain about Hammer 2.

 

Mallyx otherwise is all fun until poison comes in, something needs to be done and I am doubtful unique buffs is the solution, more like added changes to skills could allieviate, PA and EM are the two things that really are lack luster to hold the legend ability to survive.

[Aeolus.3615]

13 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

(snip)

Mallyx otherwise is all fun until poison comes in, something needs to be done and I am doubtful unique buffs is the solution, more like added changes to skills could allieviate, PA and EM are the two things that really are lack luster to hold the legend ability to survive.

Well i see malyx as a condi batery, something like build up, pull and push condi situation, but somehow nowadays malyx its a  renegade  only  build   IMO.

 

On 1/9/2022 at 1:41 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

(snip)

Over the years Revenant stopped being about "What Legend do I use for my current intention" more like "What build am I and which two Legend pairs up the best so that me Legend flipping between the two feels the least disruptive" 
 

 Ventari still works that way reason i love to pair it with herald since i do play support stats with power i get something of both when  needed depending sitution, it is extremelly underrated legend, tho i miss the 16k aoe heals  every 3 sec :D nerfed for 10k heals in pve and 7k heals in wvw.

IMO ventari has decent trade off altough i would not mind a slight  buff   on tablet move CD and less energy price on purifying essence from 25e to 20e would help alot or increasing the heal value from condi cleanse and keep it  at 25e, the elite condi cleanse is extremelly hard to pull off,  a player to condi cleanse  with it  tends to cast protective solace and then blow up the tablet for self blast with cleans 2 condis with 10e rather than 1 :( , some slightly QoL improvements needed imo. 

 

Jalis, shiro and Malyx can be something to hang on more time, something like a "main legend" to use most time.

Jalis is so good m8 be my favourite legend if only players knew what is possible to do with is :| , i dont think jalis needs any QoL check atm, nor hammer besides its CoR path to target.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Za Shaloc.3908]

8 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

less energy price on purifying essence from 25e to 20e would help alot or increasing the heal value from condi cleanse and keep it  at 25e

 

It is interesting seeing the difference in power between Tree Song for Vindicator and Purifying Essence. Unfortunately I see them nerfing Tree Song more than I see them buffing Purifying Essence. 

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

It is interesting seeing the difference in power between Tree Song for Vindicator and Purifying Essence. Unfortunately I see them nerfing Tree Song more than I see them buffing Purifying Essence. 

Can happen, but the current version of tree song makes it even decent when used on power builds, it  is a good elite to  pair with shiro and jalis, at best i can  see them increasing trhe CD?

With ventari tablet PE i think i reach arround 1.4k to 1.6k heals on condi cleanse, a -5e cost for it would be nice.

 

EDIT: i just remembered that orbs exist on core ventari  ._. one can make then give might but still a useless mechanics to build arround... when people talk  about rework.. yeah thats something that could be remade those 1-1-1 traits on ventari trais.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

5 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

It is interesting seeing the difference in power between Tree Song for Vindicator and Purifying Essence. Unfortunately I see them nerfing Tree Song more than I see them buffing Purifying Essence. 

It's something that I thought they would do at first, but really the true issue with Ventari sustain right now is Energy Expulsion having too many limiters, I don't feel like Treesong is busted if you happen to get pressured enough, only if the enemy has purely conditions even at 3 clears you'd still find yourself easily countering.

 

In PvE there is just as much potential as Treesong to clear conditions because there is no CD. Should it really have one? Perhaps, maybe 5 seconds at most since the nerf on knockback, there's no reason for the legend to not have it since there's no stunbreak but a high reward for camping the legend while supporting.

 

Most disagree with the shard mechanics but those are there because it allows for healing outside of the legend, to be fair there should be a small delay on legend swap before the tablet despawns to improve the flow.

 

Likewise orbs are just too small to be viable, they really should track within a certain radius instead.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:39 AM, Shao.7236 said:

(...)

Likewise orbs are just too small to be viable, they really should track within a certain radius instead.

Anet could increase the number of orbs by quite some and reduce the heal value? im  geting close to 500 heal aoes and giving might and vigor.

Also:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Words_of_Censure  staff 5 creates orbs far to sparse, needs to be adressed, should create a trail of orbs.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Generous_Abundance this should be staff skills(or certain staff skills)and not tablet skills

Also orbs should explode after 2 sec not trigered by player?

On 1/9/2022 at 8:45 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Any healing and cleansing you get from the tablet will immediately be negated by necros revs and holos throwing all their aoe on it. Having to stand still in a small area for support hasnt worked since people were blasting water fields.

It has is own degree of  dificulty  but can be done it can be some help to lessen some stress on the  boon fart classes on support roles.

Its just not a legend for the spammers that think that know how  2 play when stacking and keybahsing :)

On small scale combat it is actually very good, those several 5k heals and ventari 7k heals come quite handy while  still able to be on builds with with some power stats.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[ScottBroChill.3254]

My issue is core rev doesnt really have a "core" legend with it that works as a +1 to every other legend. This forces every elite legend to be that "+1" that has to be a jack of all trades sorta legend/traitline which makes the elite specs kinda undistinguished in their roles and what they provide. So now we have 3 elite specs that are all competing for the same spot and whatever one is tuned the best will be used with every build whether its condi, power, boon support, or healing, which surpisingly renegade does better than everything else. The only difference is that herald works a little better in a wvw environment in a mechanical sense because its not dependant on summoned, stationary spirits that can be cc'd and melted. But alacrity alone makes renegade a better boon support than herald despite the constant pulsing of boons from herald. 

But looking at core's legends, jalis and shiro are the only combo that really works together with the traitlines and weapons available just due to how stats work.  Ventari as a selfless healer with not a lot of impactful selfish survivability makes it a bad choice when wanting to increase your personal suvivability on a damaging build, and ventari lacks a second legend to make an effective support build for core basically making it a legend that's only useful when combined with elite spec legends.

Mallyx suffers similarly with synergy on core, but condi happens to be good enough for it to still be effective, but it just feels lacking. Your second legend when combined with mallyx is just taking whatever isn't the worst and not necessarily something that synergizes with it. Jalis will improve the condi tanking aspect, shiro can help stick to targets and increase amount of striks with IO, but honestly none of them feel like they fit well. 

Jalis and shiro work well together only because they are both power oriented and hammers+battlescars provides huge sustainability and easy damage. 

So yeah, all in all I do think that a lot of core legends are lacking, but I think the bigger issue is that most core legends lack a good pairing and so every elite spec tries to solve this by making a legend that is universally complimentary. The only redeeming aspect to all of this is that due to revenant's static skill bars and Anet having full control over skill interactions so there isn't many outlying OP skill combos, revenant gains access to some cool and unique skill effects that would otherwise be broken on other professions.