nerf necro!

[Axl.8924]

3 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

Maybe buff all underperforming classes and not because you just want some specific class to suffer. Would make the game better by miles.

I mean warr suffers from issues and warr does counter necro pretty hard along with rangers. Unless of course nerf by 10% shroud absorbtion for reaper and nerf life force of core to make it more vulnerable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Bale.3851 said:

Maybe buff all underperforming classes and not because you just want some specific class to suffer. Would make the game better by miles.

Warrior and mesmer could both use tuning up ngl.

[Bakeneko.5826]

I fail to understand these topics right before expac. Who cares what is OP for last month pre-expac when meta will change and changes for beta classes will go live, that hasn't been tested yet. It will be same topic in 2 months with another class in the title, might as well save keyboard for then

[Dadnir.5038]

45 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I fail to understand these topics right before expac. Who cares what is OP for last month pre-expac when meta will change and changes for beta classes will go live, that hasn't been tested yet. It will be same topic in 2 months with another class in the title, might as well save keyboard for then

The e-specs scheduled to come with EoD didn't really strike people as "ground breaking" (none of the specs bring something truly gamechanging apart maybe specter) and many people think that they can't really shake the current stalemate so they try to grasp at straws and ask for what they don't like to be nerfed.

Objectively there is a few things that really need balance on the necromancer (like lich's AA) but there is many things suggested that are uncalled for, absolutely unnecessary (like the suggested nerf to dagger or the staff nerf).

Edited January 20, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[Bakeneko.5826]

Just now, Dadnir.5038 said:

like lich's AA

I'm not saying they are entirely wrong, it's timing that is way off

[SHINING.5360]

have you ever been killed by spinal shivers? I think that this skill is one of the strangest. did you see the distance? 1200, that is, it deals damage in a diameter of 2400. and if you add passive skills, it breaks small arenas into pieces

[The Boz.2038]

12 hours ago, SHINING.5360 said:

have you ever been killed by spinal shivers? I think that this skill is one of the strangest. did you see the distance? 1200, that is, it deals damage in a diameter of 2400. and if you add passive skills, it breaks small arenas into pieces

Sorry, what? Are you saying Spinal Shivers affects all foes within 1200 of caster?

[FarmBotXD.1430]

On 1/14/2022 at 8:15 AM, Nimon.7840 said:

 

Not exactly true. Necro in general has a very obvious weakness, which is cc.

 

Just last week I fought someone in wvw, used all my stunbreaks and killed that player. Then a warrior ganked me immediately after that fight and I didn't see him coming.

I was Perma cc'd for - I don't know how long- until I was down. (Played reaper)

 

I dont get it why people in spvp still can't figure that out and abuse that weakness?!

On top of that: necro is extremely slow - be it movement wise or rather long Casttimes, or channeled skills.

 

Sure you can ask for nerfs. But always say what should be nerfed, and always consider how that would impact the gameplay of a class.

 

For example:

- nerf Necro: it's way too tanky - remove shroud covering health.

 

Would that fix anything? 

Maybe everyone else would be fine with this but Necro would be unplayable after that nerf, because Necro does not have any sources of active damage mitigation, so in order to push through with that nerf, you would have to buff Necro in other aspects.

For example adding evades frames, or blocks to certain skills. Or heavily increase necros damage in order to make it a glass Cannon.

 

why do people think build with 3 stun-breakes and 2 skills that give stability is weak to CC?
are you guys lying to yourselves so much that you started believing your own lies?
so builds have 1 stunbreak and 0 stability and can function, necro is nowhere close to being bad against CC.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

IMO what should happen to necro
1 Reduce shroud damge reduction from 50% to 40% ( if its too much reduce it to 45% instead, its 10% more damage taken which is a decent chunk )
2 Switch pve and pvp lich weapon damage ( for some reason pvp lich form has higher weapon strength, this would be ~25% damage loss in pvp, and like~33% damage buff in pve for lich ), if not that removing 1000 precision could work ( 50% crit, this is why condi necro crits you with lich anyways )
3 Reduce LF gain through soul marks from 3% to 2,5%.
After these necro would be in a good spot, and the nerfs are minor enough that there is no chance of being an overkill.

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by FarmBotXD.1430

[Bale.3851]

3 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

IMO what should happen to necro
1 Reduce shroud damge reduction from 50% to 40% ( if its too much reduce it to 45% instead, its 10% more damage taken which is a decent chunk )
2 Switch pve and pvp lich weapon damage ( for some reason pvp lich form has higher weapon strength, this would be ~25% damage loss in pvp, and like~33% damage buff in pvp for lich ), if not that removing 1000 precision could work ( 50% crit, this is why condi necro crits you with lich anyways )
3 Reduce LF gain through soul marks from 3% to 2,5%.
After these necro would be in a good spot, and the nerfs are minor enough that there is no chance of being an overkill.

Sound ok to me.

[The Boz.2038]

Honestly, I never understood why the funky "shroud has less than your HP, but also has totes super special damage reduction, but also loses a percentage of health each second" mechanics. Just... why?

It having damage reduction has huge implications. It stacks with other damage reductions, it messes with enemy "on damage dealt" effects, and just... overcomplicates for no good reason, really.

[Aravind.9610]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Honestly, I never understood why the funky "shroud has less than your HP, but also has totes super special damage reduction, but also loses a percentage of health each second" mechanics. Just... why?

It having damage reduction has huge implications. It stacks with other damage reductions, it messes with enemy "on damage dealt" effects, and just... overcomplicates for no good reason, really.

It's because shroud is also the main offense of necromancer, and without it their damage is garbage. (Don't bring up Lich Form here, that lasts 10 seconds on a 150 second cooldown). So in order to prevent their offense from being drained so easily in team fights, they are given damage reduction in shroud so they can actually pull off at least a couple attacks before their shroud disspates and they have to wait 10 seconds before trying to activate it again even with life force gain.

[Fueki.4753]

4 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

It's because shroud is also the main offense of necromancer, and without it their damage is garbage. (Don't bring up Lich Form here, that lasts 10 seconds on a 150 second cooldown). So in order to prevent their offense from being drained so easily in team fights, they are given damage reduction in shroud so they can actually pull off at least a couple attacks before their shroud disspates and they have to wait 10 seconds before trying to activate it again even with life force gain.

Arenanet could simply change how the damage reduction works.

Something like 50% damage is dealt to Life Force bar, while 50% of the damage is dealt to the regular HP bar instead of the current 50% of the damage are simply gone would also diminish the pain point of Shroud doubling as a second HP bar. That way, Necromancers could still use their profession mechanic in the intended way, while their ability to soak excessive amounts of damage is reduced.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Bale.3851]

10 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet could simply change how the damage reduction works.

Something like 50% damage is dealt to Life Force bar, while 50% of the damage is dealt to the regular HP bar instead of the current 50% of the damage are simply gone would also diminish the pain point of Shroud doubling as a second HP bar. That way, Necromancers could still use their profession mechanic in the intended way, while their ability to soak excessive amounts of damage is reduced.

Im in the boat if they add active sustain. This would help the class and it wont be recogniced as the "noob class" anymore. Maybe more deflects/stability or useable skills while in shroud. Necro could be so much better than it is.

[The Boz.2038]

4 hours ago, Aravind.9610 said:

So in order to prevent their offense from being drained so easily in team fights, they are given damage reduction in shroud

Okay. But why is it, by default, less than two thirds of the HP, then?

[Nimon.7840]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:15 PM, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

why do people think build with 3 stun-breakes and 2 skills that give stability is weak to CC?
are you guys lying to yourselves so much that you started believing your own lies?
so builds have 1 stunbreak and 0 stability and can function, necro is nowhere close to being bad against CC.

 

Just out of curiosity: what rank are you in spvp?

The matter of stunbreaks:

Most Necro meta builds only bring two stunbreaks (3rd slot is often used for something like spectral ring, well of darkness, well of corruption, CPC)

And they are mostly used for mobility and stunbreak. You are basically forced to bring those because else, Necro would have zero mobility. If Necro didn't have them (Wurm + spectral walk), Necro woulde be close to not playable in spvp imo.

Because with two dodges (almost very class has those) and only shroud as "active" defense Necro wouldn't be able to keep up with the other classes. And combat in pvp is all about being able to rotate fast. That's why classes with a lot of mobility are the absolute kings in that Gamemode.

Also: real active dmg mitigation like blocks or evades are much more valuable than passive ones like shroud.

I wouldn't agree on having great stability access.

On core it's one source (lich) on reaper it's 2 (lich or shout elite and shroud 3) (you basically don't see shout being played because lich is much more powerful)

shroud 3 gives 3 stacks for 3 seconds, that's not really that great of an uptime. And it's locked behind shroud.

And lich has a really high cool down and isn't really used as a defensive tool.

So you have maybe 3 anti cc sources on reaper and core and scourge have 2.

And that's in your opinion not bad against cc?

Your standard seems to be really low to me.

Literally every other has more anti cc - maybe not in form of stability, but extra dodges (yes even vigor counts here imo) , mobility skills that get you out of range, blocks, invulns.

Imo Necro is easy to play but much harder to master than most people think. The decision which enemy ability to use your valuable dodge or stab on, matters much more than on classes that have a lot more mitigations.

If you watched tpots rating of the new specs in pvp based on the beta, you will notice that he rated Necro without shroud " grief tier"

Probably slightly above Willbender, because harbinger delivers the points to the enemy much slower xD

https://youtu.be/MSSdwr1vbzI

That being said:

I absolutely agree, that lich needs a nerf - better would be a rework though, not really having any elite option on a power core Necro would be pretty bad.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Nimon.7840

[FarmBotXD.1430]

6 minutes ago, Nimon.7840 said:

 

Just out of curiosity: what rank are you in spvp?

The matter of stunbreaks:

Most Necro meta builds only bring two stunbreaks (3rd slot is often used for something like spectral ring, well of darkness, well of corruption, CPC)

And they are mostly used for mobility and stunbreak. You are basically forced to bring those because else, Necro would have zero mobility. If Necro didn't have them (Wurm + spectral walk), Necro woulde be close to not playable in spvp imo.

Because with two dodges (almost very class has those) and only shroud as "active" defense Necro wouldn't be able to keep up with the other classes. And combat in pvp is all about being able to rotate fast. That's why classes with a lot of mobility are the absolute kings in that Gamemode.

Also: real active dmg mitigation like blocks or evades are much more valuable than passive ones like shroud.

I wouldn't agree on having great stability access.

On core it's one source (lich) on reaper it's 2 (lich or shout elite and shroud 3) (you basically don't see shout being played because lich is much more powerful)

shroud 3 gives 3 stacks for 3 seconds, that's not really that great of an uptime. And it's locked behind shroud.

And lich has a really high cool down and isn't really used as a defensive tool.

So you have maybe 3 anti cc sources on reaper and core and scourge have 2.

And that's in your opinion not bad against cc?

Your standard seems to be really low to me.

Literally every other has more anti cc - maybe not in form of stability, but extra dodges (yes even vigor counts here imo) , mobility skills that get you out of range, blocks, invulns.

Imo Necro is easy to play but much harder to master than most people think. The decision which enemy ability to use your valuable dodge or stab on, matters much more than on classes that have a lot more mitigations.

If you watched tpots rating of the new specs in pvp based on the beta, you will notice that he rated Necro without shroud " grief tier"

Probably slightly above Willbender, because harbinger delivers the points to the enemy much slower xD

https://youtu.be/MSSdwr1vbzI

That being said:

I absolutely agree, that lich needs a nerf - better would be a rework though, not really having any elite option on a power core Necro would be pretty bad.

plat 2

[SHINING.5360]

On 1/21/2022 at 11:48 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

Sorry, what? Are you saying Spinal Shivers affects all foes within 1200 of caster?

Chill your target and remove up to three boons, dealing extra damage based on the number of boons removed.

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Damage.png/20px-Damage.png Damage—Three Boons: 867 (2.625)^?

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Damage.png/20px-Damage.png Damage—Two Boons: 619 (1.875)^?

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Damage.png/20px-Damage.png Damage—One Boon: 371 (1.125)^?

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Damage.png/20px-Damage.png Damage—No Boons: 165 (0.50)^?

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/a/a6/Chilled.png/20px-Chilled.png Chilled (5s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/2/28/Miscellaneous_effect.png/20px-Miscellaneous_effect.png Boons Removed: 3

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/c5/Range.png/20px-Range.png Range: 1,200

[The Boz.2038]

Are you having an aneurysm? Should I call the hospital?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Reaper Shroud skills in full zerker hitting for 5k against 4k armor target. All the while there is 0 build into the shroud dmg mititgation. Full zerker reapers are excellent teamfighters (overshadowed in pvp from disgusting core necros). 

 

I don't get why I must invest in that defense as a warrior with the "highest toughness and vitality baseline 2012 crap" and hit like a feather vs some chill full zerk reaper. It doesn't stand literally. 

 

Edit: Point is full offensive gear and still better sustain than me.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098

[LucianDK.8615]

16 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Reaper Shroud skills in full zerker hitting for 5k against 4k armor target. All the while there is 0 build into the shroud dmg mititgation. Full zerker reapers are excellent teamfighters (overshadowed in pvp from disgusting core necros). 

 

I don't get why I must invest in that defense as a warrior with the "highest toughness and vitality baseline 2012 crap" and hit like a feather vs some chill full zerk reaper. It doesn't stand literally. 

 

Edit: Point is full offensive gear and still better sustain than me.

Warriors doesnt lose their defensive and offensive power like reapers does when out of shroud.

[Bakeneko.5826]

16 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Edit: Point is full offensive gear and still better sustain than me.

I think you are just bad at war

[Bale.3851]

19 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Reaper Shroud skills in full zerker hitting for 5k against 4k armor target. All the while there is 0 build into the shroud dmg mititgation. Full zerker reapers are excellent teamfighters (overshadowed in pvp from disgusting core necros).

 

Dunno in what kind of content you play war. But berserker is one of the best team fighters there is. Sure in Spvp you lack survivability but in wvw you are a monster hitting multiple foes for 13k+ and that on soldier/marauder gear.

 

 

Maybe you dont have a good team supporting you.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

6 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

Dunno in what kind of content you play war. But berserker is one of the best team fighters there is. Sure in Spvp you lack survivability but in wvw you are a monster hitting multiple foes for 13k+ and that on soldier/marauder gear.

 

 

Maybe you dont have a good team supporting you.

Zerging is diff . Despite that Berserker traits suffer as well as it's mechanic. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Nimon.7840]

18 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Zerging is diff . Despite that Berserker traits suffer as well as it's mechanic. 

So we are at the point:

One build of my class isn't good in 1 part of the game pls nerf that other class?

 

Ok:

Core Necro is absolutely useless for endgame PvE - pls nerf warrior/berserker

 

What?