Weakness

[Zekent.3652]

Why in the world 1 single might stills corrupted into 5 seconds weakness?

This is just one of many reasons on why necro is so easy and overperforming.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Zizekent.2398
Surprise surprise, opinions change.

[Lonecap.4105]

Apparently most people think it's perfectly fine, so I lost hope on garnering any support for changing it

[Zekent.3652]

1 hour ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Apparently most people think it's perfectly fine, so I lost hope on garnering any support for changing it

Its just a small poll with multiple variants to be against and 1 at favor, so ofc. Weakness needs to be checked.

[Kuma.1503]

 I see a thread simply titled "Weakness"

I instinctively think "Let me guess. Nerf it"?

Click on the thread. 

Reads the first sentence. 

"Yup that's what I expected".

[Downstate.4697]

Are you a warrior main?

[Shao.7236]

Weakness is hardly an issue other than it's RNG and that's for the one applying it too, it doesn't have that much of uptime on Necromancer either Warrior can have WAY more and you don't see them use it. It's more like players blast all their skills while they have it then have nothing to fight back

 

Same goes for "OMG SO MUCH LIFEFORCE" yet players are the one applying conditions and smacking the Necromancer around when they have Spectral "Insert type" up.

 

Eventually players are gonna have to accept the fact that counterplay is as simple as being patient and not doing anything.

 

If there needs to be any change to weakness, that would be changing it's effect to no longer be RNG and rather half the damage of critical hits until it wears off so that it's purely based off critical chance alone rather than another percentage in the equation.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

I can agree that corrupted might has a bit too much of a converted duration when it's low stacks, especially with how drastic the effect can be. Corrupting 25 stacks of might should give a longer weakness duration than 1 stack, which should barely be even noticed. Punish heavy might stacking more than getting a stack or two here and there. 

[Zekent.3652]

10 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Are you a warrior main?

And what? is it another "you main this class, so your opinion doesn't matters" lol, like if warrior is the only class that gen might and get corrupted to weakness.

[Genesis.5169]

A warrior main complaining about a skill from necros that corrupts his might, and because of that the entire condition should get nerfed.

Gw2 community in a nutshell right here.

[Bazsi.2734]

Weakness itself is fine. It just became so cheap that its basicly omnipresent.
If you let an effect be this common and nerf its effect, you make it uninteresting. The same way I disliked how retaliations damage was nerfed instead of its duration back in the day, I wouldn't want weakness to become "weaker". Make it less present, turn it back into a tactical tool like it was 6+ years ago.

[Sigmoid.7082]

37 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Weakness itself is fine. It just became so cheap that its basicly omnipresent.
If you let an effect be this common and nerf its effect, you make it uninteresting. The same way I disliked how retaliations damage was nerfed instead of its duration back in the day, I wouldn't want weakness to become "weaker". Make it less present, turn it back into a tactical tool like it was 6+ years ago.

You'd also need to look at how much might is flying around, and more likely boons in general. Players float and generate a lot of boons now for doing fairly little. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Sigmoid.7082

[Zekent.3652]

3 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

A warrior main complaining about a skill from necros that corrupts his might, and because of that the entire condition should get nerfed.

Gw2 community in a nutshell right here.

I know right? because warrior is the only class that gens might 🧐.

[Zekent.3652]

57 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Weakness itself is fine. It just became so cheap that its basicly omnipresent.
If you let an effect be this common and nerf its effect, you make it uninteresting. The same way I disliked how retaliations damage was nerfed instead of its duration back in the day, I wouldn't want weakness to become "weaker". Make it less present, turn it back into a tactical tool like it was 6+ years ago.

Yeah, i think the same, it's practically everywhere, just like blinds, but they're not that strong, i think that by far, the strongest condition is slow and chill, but they're not "everywhere".

[Vinny.7260]

Weakness in and of itself isn't an issue.

The abundance of it is the issue.

We've got Core Necromancer with Weakening Shroud for 2.5s on Critical Hit (10s cool down). We've got the entering-shroud Weakness on a Lesser Enfeeble that inflicts 6s of weakness. Then we've got the Enfeebling Blood that inflicts 4s of Weakness.

Next we've got Valkyrie Ranger inflicting Weakness with Winter's Bite indirectly for 4s (pet has to land an attack.) Then you've got Clarion Bond casting Lesser Call of the Wild on pet swap to inflict 5s of PBAoE Weakness.

We've got Carrion Axe Mirage running Power Block that inflicts 3s of Weakness on any successful interrupt. Then you have Mirage Mirror inflicting 4s of Weakness in a PBAoE radius.

You've got Lightning Rod Weaver that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC. Then you've got Superior Elements that inflicts 2s of it every 10s when landing a Dual Attack. You've also got Convergence that inflicts 3s of Weakness in a PBAoE every 6.5s.

You've got SA Daredevil that has Weakening Strikes, which means it can inflict Weakness after every dodge followed by an attack for 2s of Weakness. (I can't recall if it also removes the effect if the attack misses- but it might.)

You've got Power Herald that inflicts 2s of Weakness AoE on Elemental Blast. You've also got Power Renegade that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC due to Dwarven Battle Training. Renegade can also inflict 1s of pulsing Weakness PBAoE on heal due to Planar Protection. They both also use Staff which has access to Mender's Rebuke which inflicts 3s on successful hit.

(SA Daredevil and Power Herald's access is arguably the most healthy out of all the specs mentioned above.)

3 of the specs there are the most common in the meta and they are actively holding a vice-grip on the games. (SA Daredevil, Core Necromancer, and Power Herald.)

I'm only mentioning META specs right now. Imagine if I went into all the other accesses.

Let's also mention corruption of Might. Might for ANY duration/intensity inflicts 5s of Weakness.

Weakness currently counters/cancels out Might, Fury, and Vigor. Might and Fury are both actively used by Power Specs, and then there's Vigor that cancels out sustain in general.

I think for an effect so strong to also have such a high duration/abundance in the meta is just not healthy. I don't care how hard the specialization is or what class it is. Having so much without little thinking is kind of nasty.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Vinny.7260
Added some clarification

[Zekent.3652]

33 minutes ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Weakness in and of itself isn't an issue.

The abundance of it is the issue.

We've got Core Necromancer with Weakening Shroud for 2.5s on Critical Hit (10s cool down). We've got the entering-shroud Weakness on a Lesser Enfeeble that inflicts 6s of weakness. Then we've got the Enfeebling Blood that inflicts 4s of Weakness.

Next we've got Valkyrie Ranger inflicting Weakness with Winter's Bite indirectly for 4s (pet has to land an attack.) Then you've got Clarion Bond casting Lesser Call of the Wild on pet swap to inflict 5s of PBAoE Weakness.

We've got Carrion Axe Mirage running Power Block that inflicts 3s of Weakness on any successful interrupt. Then you have Mirage Mirror inflicting 4s of Weakness in a PBAoE radius.

You've got Lightning Rod Weaver that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC. Then you've got Superior Elements that inflicts 2s of it every 10s when landing a Dual Attack. You've also got Convergence that inflicts 3s of Weakness in a PBAoE every 6.5s.

You've got SA Daredevil that has Weakening Strikes, which means it can inflict Weakness after every dodge followed by an attack for 2s of Weakness. (I can't recall if it also removes the effect if the attack misses- but it might.)

You've got Power Herald that inflicts 2s of Weakness AoE on Elemental Blast. You've also got Power Renegade that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC due to Dwarven Battle Training. Renegade can also inflict 1s of pulsing Weakness PBAoE on heal due to Planar Protection. They both also use Staff which has access to Mender's Rebuke which inflicts 3s on successful hit.

(SA Daredevil and Power Herald's access is arguably the most healthy out of all the specs mentioned above.)

3 of the specs there are the most common in the meta and they are actively holding a vice-grip on the games. (SA Daredevil, Core Necromancer, and Power Herald.)

I'm only mentioning META specs right now. Imagine if I went into all the other accesses.

Let's also mention corruption of Might. Might for ANY duration/intensity inflicts 5s of Weakness.

Weakness currently counters/cancels out Might, Fury, and Vigor. Might and Fury are both actively used by Power Specs, and then there's Vigor that cancels out sustain in general.

I think for an effect so strong to also have such a high duration/abundance in the meta is just not healthy. I don't care how hard the specialization is or what class it is. Having so much without little thinking is kind of nasty.

Totally agree.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

How about remove the endurance regeneration penalty from weakness and move it onto another condition. Split the access to this condition so that only a few currently non meta classes can use it to any significant degree.

[Genesis.5169]

1 hour ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Weakness in and of itself isn't an issue.

The abundance of it is the issue.

We've got Core Necromancer with Weakening Shroud for 2.5s on Critical Hit (10s cool down). We've got the entering-shroud Weakness on a Lesser Enfeeble that inflicts 6s of weakness. Then we've got the Enfeebling Blood that inflicts 4s of Weakness.

Next we've got Valkyrie Ranger inflicting Weakness with Winter's Bite indirectly for 4s (pet has to land an attack.) Then you've got Clarion Bond casting Lesser Call of the Wild on pet swap to inflict 5s of PBAoE Weakness.

We've got Carrion Axe Mirage running Power Block that inflicts 3s of Weakness on any successful interrupt. Then you have Mirage Mirror inflicting 4s of Weakness in a PBAoE radius.

You've got Lightning Rod Weaver that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC. Then you've got Superior Elements that inflicts 2s of it every 10s when landing a Dual Attack. You've also got Convergence that inflicts 3s of Weakness in a PBAoE every 6.5s.

You've got Daredevil that has Weakening Strikes, which means it can inflict Weakness after every dodge followed by an attack for 2s of Weakness. (I can't recall if it also removes the effect if the attack misses- but it might.)

You've got Power Herald that inflicts 2s of Weakness AoE on Elemental Blast. You've also got Power Renegade that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC due to Dwarven Battle Training. Renegade can also inflict 1s of pulsing Weakness PBAoE on heal due to Planar Protection. They both also use Staff which has access to Mender's Rebuke which inflicts 3s on successful hit.

I'm only mentioning META specs right now. Imagine if I went into all the other accesses.

Let's also mention corruption of Might. Might for ANY duration/intensity inflicts 5s of Weakness.

Weakness currently counters/cancels out Might, Fury, and Vigor. Might and Fury are both actively used by Power Specs, and then there's Vigor that cancels out sustain in general.

I think for an effect so strong to also have such a high duration/abundance in the meta is just not healthy. I don't care how hard the specialization is or what class it is. Having so much without little thinking is kind of nasty.

More then half these builds in this do not see pvp...

Edited January 10, 2022 by Genesis.5169

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

10 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

More then half these builds in do not see pvp...

"Hey, if I don't see it, then it's not a problem!" - That's some neat logic right there.

[Genesis.5169]

6 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

"Hey, if I don't see it, then it's not a problem!" - That's some neat logic right there.

Clearly because weakness is not enough to carry these builds into viability, im glad you understand.

[Vinny.7260]

18 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

More then half these builds in do not see pvp...

Hi there~!

I'm just curious. You probably don't see Valkyrie Ranger (tail swipe god), Carrion Axe Mirage (ZOMG NERF MESMER IT PUT MY HEAL ON 15S!), LR Weaver (OMG ALL YOU DO IS CC ME... Very interactive...), and Renegade (Taunt bug extraordinaire.)

 

These are valid points not to see, Valkyrie Ranger is typically replaced with Fire Weaver in ATs/mATs. Carrion Axe Mirage is overshadowed by SA Daredevil and typically not taken for that reason. LR Weaver is typically too squishy or played by select few players due to weakness to condition damage, and then there's Renegade that's overshadowed by Herald rn.

4 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Clearly because weakness is not enough to carry these builds into viability, im glad you understand.

Did you really just associate my entire post with 'not seen, therefore not the issue.'

 

Closes forums.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

3 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Clearly because weakness is not enough to carry these builds into viability, im glad you understand.

You didn't understood what I wrote, that's actually amazing thing to achieve.
Discussion here is not about "viability" or "usability" of builds that have access to that condition, it's the condition itself a "problem".
I still don't get why you people always miss a target.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

17 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Weakness is hardly an issue other than it's RNG and that's for the one applying it too, it doesn't have that much of uptime on Necromancer either

Weakness + shroud makes necros practically immune to power damage. And necro has more weakness sources than any class, not sure what you mean here.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[Genesis.5169]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You didn't understood what I wrote, that's actually amazing thing to achieve.
Discussion here is not about "viability" or "usability" of builds that have access to that condition, it's the condition itself a "problem".
I still don't get why you people always miss a target.

You clearly don't understand anything at all, lemme spell out the logic chain.
OP argues Weakness is OP.
OP also plays a warrior.
OP also is talking about a particular class interaction between warrior might and necro's corrupting into weakness.
Not alot of classes get free might like warriors, only one class gets to corrupt might into weakness.
Some how using this as a excuse to nerf weakness as a condition due to his one niche class interaction.
Some one says this game has too much weakness.
Links a bunch of builds nobody plays.

Some one says nobody plays these classes because other classes are better.

1 hour ago, Vinny.7260 said:

 

Valkyrie Ranger is typically replaced with Fire Weaver in ATs/mATs. Carrion Axe Mirage is overshadowed by SA Daredevil and typically not taken for that reason. LR Weaver is typically too squishy or played by select few players due to weakness to condition damage, and then there's Renegade that's overshadowed by Herald rn.'

 

Some how weakness still is an issue.

I mean honestly i don't know what to do here if weakness is such an issue why is it that almost all the classes that have easy access to weakness never use it, hell elixir gun can apply it 24/7 where are all the elixir gun engineers? Where are all the power block mesmers, where are all the ele's running lightning rod?

Yeah its not an issue because nobody plays it and, nobody plays it because weakness is not a good enough condition to build around, unlike blind, or burning, or chill.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Genesis.5169

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I'd like to point out that not only is one might corrupted into 5 seconds of weakness, that might is generated frequently by taking Forceful Greatsword, or hitting anyone with Reckless Dodge or Decapitate / Eviscerate

I don't really have much of an issue with weakness, HOWEVER.

It's kind of dumb that landing these skills/landing any skill with forceful equipped generates juuuuuust enough might for jussst long enough that it opens them to weakness for normal gameplay, but doesn't really generate it in any measure significant enough to... you know, actually be beneficial to the warrior. It's just there to make countering warriors even easier with boon corruption. 

I'd like to have more control over when I have might on me personally, so I can counterplay corrupts, or otherwise have it be a significant amount, instead of having people just land corrupts/converts and 9 times out of ten be able to put weakness on me because I pressed any button at all. 

Just whining, don't mind me.  I agree partly with the OP, but more along the lines of "I literally cannot avoid getting weakness from corrupts because my traitlines/skills give me training wheels might. Send help."

Edited January 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261
What am I gonna do with one stack of might? You can keep it.

[Shao.7236]

53 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Weakness + shroud makes necros practically immune to power damage. And necro has more weakness sources than any class, not sure what you mean here.

I disagree, there's much more that can come from Body Blow or Lighting Rod. Necromancer has about the same as Revenant while one has Lifeforce and the other has modifiers to sustain damage.

 

As a Warrior with Cull the Weak you can pratically apply permanent Weakness on low targets while kittenredevil(apparently dare gets censored) Thief is also out there and they have lots of blind to top it off.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Shao.7236