Im new to pvp. How do you counter...

[Zereqiel.8249]

1. Core bunker necro

2. Minion necro

played for more than a year before ever touching pvp. the mode is a swamp but im after some skins so theres no helping it. i just cant get over the fact that every match i get necros, i just want to know what counters them so i know at least what to do with them.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Zereqiel.8249

[Ashgar.3024]

Focused Power pressure is the only way, can try your luck putting a target on them in hope your teamates focuses on it. Otherwise just outrotate, not worth going through 80k worth of health, most builds can't sustain that long anyway in 1v1.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Ovark.2514]

There's no counter to core necro, that's why it's meta. Thief would be the counter but it still takes so long to kill them that by the time you down them some core guard or ele comes by and presses one button to instantly revive  them from range.

 

Minions on the other hand are quite squishy these days, so if you can cleave them quick enough, the necro will be out of sustain tools if you're not almost dead.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Ovark.2514
Typos

[Ashgar.3024]

19 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

There's no counter to core necro, that's why it's meta. Thief would be the counter but it still takes so long to kill them that by the time you down them some core guard or ele comes buy and presses one butting to instantly revive  them from range.

 

Minions on the other hand are quite squishy these days, so if you can cleave them quick enough, the necro will be out of sustain tools if you're not almost dead.

 

Not entirely true, they can be focused down, they basically have 0 block/reflect frames no dodge besides the base 2 or any swiftness to kite, its why you don't see them as much in ATs and other organized form of play.

 

Its just completely unrealistic 90% of the time in soloQ ranked as people just target willy-nilly.

 

Edit : To the confused people, i just logged on my Necro, built the meta Core Necro build... i don't really see how what i said here is inaccurate. Please feel free to point it out.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Khalisto.5780]

well, necro is very strong right now, you either fart condi or you cc it to death or burst it, easier said than done tho.

fire weaver does well against it

sic' em soulbeast

warriors in general, even if it's bad against everything else

[Buran.3796]

   In 1 v 1 core bunker necro can be vulnerable to ranged builds as longbow DH trapper, some Ranger builds and Renebow; is all matter of which one lands their cc the first and plays better thir cards.

   Minionmancer is weak to AoE burst, since losing all his army in a few seconds can put them in a very bad place. Again trapper DH and some Ele builds using fire damage do work really well against, but albeit them work well vs this specific target they aren't meta and have their own weakness.

[Avatar.3568]

Don't waste your burst in their shroud, rather spam the auto attack and a bit cc, don't waste cc, wait till He dodged a bit that you can land savely, they can't stunbreak in shroud and try to dodge their fear, it's a big Blake smoke above their head. 

When they leave the shroud smash your burst in, count again the dodges and stunbreaks, usually they run 2, spectral walk and worm. Take care that you don't get catched by a fear ring, you will either need to wait or use a source of stability to cross the fear rings. 

The time Windows of 10 seconds seems low to burst a necro but it's absolutely not impossible. Just don't get baited and waste your burst in his shroud, shroud reduces dmg income by 50% and is also used as shield to protect the real life, I hope it helps. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

You either fight them 1v2 or rotate away. Unless you are holding a node its not worth your time trying to 1v1 them since nothing can kill them in a reasonable amount of time.

[Vancho.8750]

Warrior can roll through it like its nothing , SpB can out duel it with the you can't touch me button or berserker can kill it 3 times over, the problem is that warrior is hot garbage vs anything that plays hit and run and doesn't fight meaning everything else in the meta.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Core Necro, MM Necro and Scourge counter is Ranged Power DPS…aka Lich Form (other necros)…Sic em Rangers…PP Thieves, Deadeyes and Flame Thrower Scrapper.

 

This is why Lich Form is really the meta…mainly cause there’s no real decent way to dispatch these bunker builds that are anti-condition and anti-melle. 

[Ashgar.3024]

10 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Sic em Rangers…PP Thieves, Deadeyes

Not really valid options with at least 2 guardians and often 1 scrapper per game. Projectiles are pointless on mid node. The Deadeye icone being a giant flashing "tunnel me" billboard doesn't really do it any favor either.

Also a bit surprised about the Scrapper, can't say i have much first hand experience with the matchup but isn't Scrapper super easy to pressure with condis?

Edited February 12, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Bazsi.2734]

The counter depends on what situation you are in.
Minion master vs a teamfight: congratulations you just won by default. Minon master sidenode: take aggro, kite the minions behind some clutter where the necro can't reach, cleave them down.... profit.
Core necro: be ranged power build in teamfight, pew-pew at them from afar. On sidenode, aside from condi mirage pretty much any traditional bruiser build works. Core necro is a teamfighter, not a sidenoder. Of course these scenarios presuppose equal-ish skill levels. If the necro outskills you you do not stand a chance.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

Power ranger, power mesmer, deadeye(to an extent, kill minions using steal + reset in 1v1 situations), support tempest in teamfights. Those are the ones that i play. There are probably a few more. 

One thing you need to realize is necro is the best spvp class in the game by a decent margin, so there is only so much you can do to counter it. Sic em slb is the closest spec to a hard counter imo. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Nimbus Nomad.1237

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

17 hours ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

Not really valid options with at least 2 guardians and often 1 scrapper per game. Projectiles are pointless on mid node. The Deadeye icone being a giant flashing "tunnel me" billboard doesn't really do it any favor either.

Also a bit surprised about the Scrapper, can't say i have much first hand experience with the matchup but isn't Scrapper super easy to pressure with condis?

As far as 1v1’s only a ranger (and necro with Lich form) can really beat them 1v1…every other counter match up to necros has to be a plus because those builds have no real sustain. In other words the counters I listed are it’s best +1 matchups. In 1v1 the answer is just necro (and previously mentioned ranger)…since necros have Lich Form they counter each other and can both sustain against each other 1v1

 

in team fights it gets sticky because of projectile hate…but if you are good at popping Lich form at the right time you can dispatch them. Flame thrower scrapper in the team fight as a plus is ideal because FT is not a projectile. Just don’t go looking for 1v1s as a glass FT Scrapper

Edited February 13, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Run away from Shroud and let it drain. Use objects to block LoS attacks. Spam CC and Immobilise especially. Necros are actually pretty easy, they're just tanky which makes everyone afraid of them.

 

You need to know how to combo CC and damage, not just one or the other.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Imo the counter is not to 1v1 it. There kinda slow classes so you should beable to just move to where you are needed more.

[Zekent.3652]

On 2/11/2022 at 10:55 PM, Khalisto.5780 said:

warriors in general, even if it's bad against everything else

This, as someone who mains warrior and played necro a few times, spellbreaker CC chains on shroud really punish necros, but you also have a constant might corruption on warriors, one of the strongest condis in this game, weakness.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Tempest. Carion amulet. Divinity rune. Ether renewal to cleanse condis. Glyph of elements to summon a companion. Signet of Earth for passive toughness. Eye of the Storm to run away from their lich thingie (No tanking that). Blast AOEs around to keep the minions away. Overload fire for DPS, overload earth for protection. Still hard and you will not always win because of the massive health pool and barrier that most necros have. But this is how I handle them.

Edited February 16, 2022 by TheQuickFox.3826

[Sarlan.7682]

CC and Kite while they are in shroud. try to land a CC when they are about to leave shroud and burst afterwards. Also If they are auto attacking walk through them since the AA needs los and has a fairly long cast time. Dodge the fear, Interrupt If possible shroud 4. Dont use your highest dmg skills while they are in shroud. If they play mm Just use a high aoe dmg class and abuse cc since they dont have any stunbreaks. Be aware of wurm and spectral walk cds. If you see them use those skills, call a target and focus them. Try to keep a condi cleanse or stability Skill rdy for the fear wall. If you Play core nec yourself you can actually abuse that Skill to fear them with dagger 4 or entering shroud and proccing the condi transfer. Also learn the most common kiting jumps to either follow competent necros or kite out their shroud (you should actually learn and use them against any class) If you dont have the damage or CC to kill them Just rotate somewhere else (dont Fight them in their capture Point with a Bunker). Dont bother fighting them If they got a support and you cant survive the 2v1. Just rotate to another fight.

[Zaxares.5419]

Necromancers of all stripes have one major weakness; a severe lack of Stability. (Reapers do have it while in Shroud, but it doesn't last long, and they usually will try and save it for a stomp or during a burst.) As such, their biggest weakness is CC lock coupled with strong bursts, usually Power because that lands faster.

 

As a general rule, Core Necromancers as well as Minion Masters are EXTREMELY hard to kill 1v1, so if you see one sitting on a Far point and you don't have a build that counters them, DO NOT engage. Instead, go decap elsewhere or join a team fight. This will force the Necromancer to move, and once they join a team fight, you can either burst down their minions quickly with AoE (after which they become extremely vulnerable), or leave them for last because they will melt fast under heavy team focus.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

7 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Tempest. Carion amulet. Divinity rune. Ether renewal to cleanse condis. Glyph of elements to summon a companion. Signet of Earth for passive toughness. Eye of the Storm to run away from their lich thingie (No tanking that). Blast AOEs around to keep the minions away. Overload fire for DPS, overload earth for protection. Still hard and you will not always win because of the massive health pool and barrier that most necros have. But this is how I handle them.

Just a note, you don't need to run from Lich. It has a very low attack angle and if you circle around it all the attacks will miss. You can use the old "move through the enemy to get behind them" trick since the game has no collision, and Lich is defeated. Also, if you stand right on the player sometimes it can't attack at all.

 

In other PvP games I played in the past, this was known as dancing your opponent. Players don't do it here much (prefering to just attack head-on), but its still very useful in some cases.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Sahne.6950]

On 2/12/2022 at 4:33 AM, Zereqiel.8249 said:

1. Core bunker necro

2. Minion necro

played for more than a year before ever touching pvp. the mode is a swamp but im after some skins so theres no helping it. i just cant get over the fact that every match i get necros, i just want to know what counters them so i know at least what to do with them.

 

the Core Valkyrie Ranger build (check metabattle.com) Shats on necros BIGTIME!  If you play it  decent you wont have a problem against necros in a 1v1 scenario. Same goes for alot of the duelist builds (Fireweaver; Warriors,etc.). In theory they all should be able to kill a necro, altho the reality may look diffrent especially if they have a support on them 😄 

In general try and kite out their shroud... and burst when they are out of shroud. Another tip is to always keep an eye at the necros Stability buff. If you dont see stability try and spam CC. In shroud they cant break and outside of shroud you could use the CC to setup a burst combo.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Eddbopkins.2630]

15 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Tempest. Carion amulet. Divinity rune. Ether renewal to cleanse condis. Glyph of elements to summon a companion. Signet of Earth for passive toughness. Eye of the Storm to run away from their lich thingie (No tanking that). Blast AOEs around to keep the minions away. Overload fire for DPS, overload earth for protection. Still hard and you will not always win because of the massive health pool and barrier that most necros have. But this is how I handle them.

Lich can be tanked with either focus air 5 along with earth focus 4. If you are using tempest, earth 4, then overload with aura after success, and the reflect shout utility with temp. To be able to tank it all you have to be ready.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

10 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

burst down their minions quickly with AoE (after which they become extremely vulnerable)

if only this was true