Dirt simple fix to Herald Shield

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Change s5 to be Invulnerability.

I see a lot of people complain about s5 and how it sucks because you cannot move. But the root on s5 is exactly what makes it unique and interesting over just making shield rev a clone of other specs shield. Making it an invuln would allow the downside of self-root as a valid tradeoff for not being cheesable by unblockable AoEs, and would also better fit the skill name "Hibernation". So this is a straightforward way to make the skill less-bad while keeping it unique.

/2cents

Edited February 12, 2022 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Aeolus.3615]

Shield 5 being buffed i agree but invullnerability?

Imo would be to strong to make it a invunerable and would be bad at the  same time, i would rather make its pulses a aoe arround the caster, pulse heals and condi cleanse casting Crystal_Hibernation on alies as well (W/O the root ofc).

 

I believe making it a root + invulnerability would be bad and players would missuse the skill putting them in more trouble than anything outside pve(as in would not be good for pvp combat).

Edited February 12, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[phokus.8934]

Just have them bring back the break bar with it so you can not get kittened right away when using it 

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Shield for guardian became  alot better the moment they removed the root.

Reason for the root in rev shield was huge heal during channeling as tradeoff but ultimate the healing was nerfed into a joke it is these days while keeping up the root and thus theres no longer payoff to rooting urself and be a sitting duck for anyone with unblockable ability. If you want shield to be good again while keeping the root revert nerfs that happened to it. Simple as...

Edited February 13, 2022 by Scoobaniec.9561

[Yasai.3549]

Here's what I would like to see instead:

 

Infuse Light(Consume heal skill) : 
Changed to 3000 base heal, +500 heal for each unique boon on the Herald.

Crystal Hibernation (Shield 5):

No longer blocks, but converts all incoming damage into healing for 3s, roots the Herald. 

Envoy of Exhuberance (Shield 4):
No longer a targeted skill, casts and pulses in an AoE from the Herald themselves, and to add more offensive capability to the Shield, dazes enemies caught in the AoE. 
 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Aeolus.3615]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Here's what I would like to see instead:

 

Infuse Light(Consume heal skill) : 
Changed to 3000 base heal, +500 heal for each unique boon on the Herald.

Crystal Hibernation (Shield 5):

No longer blocks, but converts all incoming damage into healing for 3s, roots the Herald. 

Envoy of Exhuberance (Shield 4):
No longer a targeted skill, casts and pulses in an AoE from the Herald themselves, and to add more offensive capability to the Shield, dazes enemies caught in the AoE. 
 

Basicly make it what that skill was supose to do if we compared what it did in gw1 :D

[skunkstank.6128]

Meh, anything they do with herald shield that isn't a nerf is already a big improvement because the way it is now it's not worth to take it most places. Even in open world it isn't good and that should be a pretty big thing to notice because most things of any other class or even other herald weapons are viable in OW.

I believe they should either revamp shield 5 into something completely different or put like protection and resolution pulse on it. Would already make it much better. And if they do that they could remove protection from shield 4 and instead give it like a cripple effect on enemies if it hits and keep the minor heal on the way back that it has.

[Yasai.3549]

20 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Basicly make it what that skill was supose to do if we compared what it did in gw1 😄

I mean yea. Alot of Revenant could have been the whole "just did what it did in gw1 but slightly different" deal too. 
God, I mean how long did it take for them to change CtA into the version it is now, which is basically a gw2 friendly version of Shadow Smash. 

Battle Scars too : it could have been worked directly into Shiro's IO as a 2nd hit Lifesteal, but now it's part of Devastation. 
The worst thing they have done with Shiro is somehow making Riposting such an overloaded defense skill. Riposting used by Shiro was a shadowstep attack. If it were up to me, I would make Shiro's entire kit hyper aggressive, even the Stunbreak. I mean, they already made Enchanted Daggers as the heal skill, which is a more damage oriented skill than an actual heal skill. 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

14 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Here's what I would like to see instead:

 

Infuse Light(Consume heal skill) : 
Changed to 3000 base heal, +500 heal for each unique boon on the Herald.

Crystal Hibernation (Shield 5):

No longer blocks, but converts all incoming damage into healing for 3s, roots the Herald. 

Envoy of Exhuberance (Shield 4):
No longer a targeted skill, casts and pulses in an AoE from the Herald themselves, and to add more offensive capability to the Shield, dazes enemies caught in the AoE. 
 

 No need to nerf Infuse Light; it’s fine as is. 
 

Turning the shield into “converts damage to healing” would be a nerf since it’s an obvious animation; people would stop attacking you even more than they already do when they see Infuse Light.  More importantly it also reduces build diversity as then Shield is required to access the only “invuln” (yes, not a true invuln) that Rev has.

 

Shield 5 needs a pulsing heal/cleanse that grows from the rooted rev like Aeolus said or it needs Invuln like Ketschups said. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

 No need to nerf Infuse Light; it’s fine as is. 

It's not a nerf, it's a buff. 
If you're fighting against people who already don't hit you when you use Infuse Light, this is an overall buff because now you have a much chunkier heal, especially for players running Shiro. 

 

2 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Turning the shield into “converts damage to healing” would be a nerf since it’s an obvious animation; people would stop attacking you even more than they already do when they see Infuse Light.  More importantly it also reduces build diversity as then Shield is required to access the only “invuln” (yes, not a true invuln) that Rev has.

This isn't an issue because most people unga bunga their entire rotation anyway. And this change will help with Revenant's main weakness of Condi bursts anyway, so using the damage conversion after a Condi burst drops will turn it all into healing, which is much more beneficial than tying it to a heal flip skill since it can be activated instantly. 

 

And reduced build diversity? Don't kid yourself. Revenants already have garbage weapon diversity, making Shield much more useful is a good thing, even if it means pushing the damage conversion skill onto it. In fact, it makes more sense for the damage conversion skill to be on Shield because now you are no longer shackled to using Glint on Herald, and can use any Legend combinations you want and still have access to the damage conversion. 

Just freeing the Damage conversion from Glint is reason enough to make the change. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Buran.3796]

  In PvE every class is played as either dps or dps support, so the only way to see a Herald using shield is... none?

   The shield is a defensive weapon which in WvW zergs gets you killed due the root, so the only way in which I could see room for improvement would be in PvP.

   But won't work because a) Rev has no good bunker/bruiser builds b) there's no bunker/bruiser builds in the current PvP  meta at the moment and c) +1 power Herald gets nothing valuable from the shield. and condi Herald is frail no matter if wields a shield or not.

   I apreciate the Herald shield due sentimental reasons (already crafted Prophecies) but as happens with the hammer currently is more a ornamental piece of lore (like sabers and horses in a military parade) than a usable weapon (as assault rifles or attack helicopters).

Edited February 14, 2022 by Buran.3796

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

45 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

It's not a nerf, it's a buff. 
If you're fighting against people who already don't hit you when you use Infuse Light, this is an overall buff because now you have a much chunkier heal, especially for players running Shiro.

So you use this argument, but then two seconds later (below) you say people just "ungabunga" their rotation and they're just going to go ham on the shield anyway?  Let's be consistent here.  If they're going to "ungabunga" on shield they're already "ungabuna-ing" on Infuse Light as well.

If you're up against people who are avoiding Infused Light then they're also going to (much more easily) avoid the Hibernation.  The ability to move with Infuse Light is incredibly strong, as it lets you move into damage fields that have been created AFTER you've already cast the skill to heal off of and perhaps even more importantly permits you to continue attacking for 3s (or 2s in pvp) without worrying about anything except incoming CC. 

I think you sorely underestimate how powerful the skill is simply because it allows movement/other actions simultaneously.  While what you've suggested looks like a buff to the overall healing on paper, it doesn't allow the same offensive/defensive actions that current Infuse Light does, which is the entire reason it's strong as is.  So yes, it is a nerf even though it looks otherwise from a cursory glance. 

45 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

This isn't an issue because most people unga bunga their entire rotation anyway. And this change will help with Revenant's main weakness of Condi bursts anyway, so using the damage conversion after a Condi burst drops will turn it all into healing, which is much more beneficial than tying it to a heal flip skill since it can be activated instantly.

This doesn't make sense to me considering you can already do this with Infuse Light (and just prepare it ahead of time if you feel you need to use it suddenly...this is a fair trade off for such a potent effect) and Infuse Light, with the exception of the 1/4th second cast time, doesn't have an energy cost associated with besides -1 upkeep (-2 in pvp).  Sure, you can "use shield on demand," but you also have to have the energy to do that, so you're not always going to just be able to pop it whenever. 

Also there's negative synergy here since currently Shield can be traited to remove condis while pulsing shield 5. 
 

 

45 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

And reduced build diversity? Don't kid yourself. Revenants already have garbage weapon diversity, making Shield much more useful is a good thing, even if it means pushing the damage conversion skill onto it. In fact, it makes more sense for the damage conversion skill to be on Shield because now you are no longer shackled to using Glint on Herald, and can use any Legend combinations you want and still have access to the damage conversion. 

Just freeing the Damage conversion from Glint is reason enough to make the change. 

Do you legitimately think that people are going to suddenly run sword/shield + staff on a power build simply because it has a damage conversion now?  Do you honestly think that Shield with a damage conversion will replace the utility/defense of Staff, especially when the only other weapon to pair it with is Mace or by running sword in both mainhands?  The answer to that is "no" and you're kidding yourself if you think it'll be otherwise.  The extra damage/utility of offhand sword is too strong for Power Herald builds for shield to be worth it, especially since a lot of the damage from Mainhand Sword has been gutted over the years and spread onto Offhand Sword.  Even Axe is still likely a better option as well.  A change like this isn't adding build diversity because, like you say, the choices between weapons are already so small that there are already many "best in slot" options for whatever build type you're running.

You are not shackled to Glint if you run Herald.  You're only shackled to Glint if you want what Glint offers.  And yes, Legends should offer things that are attractive, especially Elite Spec legends, otherwise they'll end up unplayable.  Core Legends Only builds are perfectly playable as is, both within Core builds and Renegade builds.  Hell, you can even make it work with Herald even if it's less ideal in many cases.  I also don't think Jalis needs access to a damage conversion skill as it's already quite tanky as is. 

If you take enough away from Glint people will end up dumpstering it like they do Kalla in competitive modes and you'll be left with 2 (maybe 3 with Vindicator) Elite Specs where people just play Shiro/Jalis.  Is that really an increase for build diversity?  I'd say absolutely not

Edited February 14, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

So you use this argument, but then two seconds later (below) you say people just "ungabunga" their rotation and they're just going to go ham on the shield anyway?  Let's be consistent here.  If they're going to "ungabunga" on shield they're already "ungabuna-ing" on Infuse Light as well.

Yes, but now people can run other Legends other than Glint. Sorry but Herald Espec should never be about Glint Stance. If you're worried about build diversity, then why not complain about the main issue at hand : Anet just overnerfing everything they see fit and never buffing. 

Everything players use in the meta rotates out because the devs just nerfs it in turn. It's like they're playing whack-a-mole until we're back to punching each other with fists. This isn't a Rev only issue, it's an every single class issue. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Obtena.7952]

Some things like this that had roots ... had them removed. That's all that needs to happen here. 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

13 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Yes, but now people can run other Legends other than Glint. Sorry but Herald Espec should never be about Glint Stance. If you're worried about build diversity, then why not complain about the main issue at hand : Anet just overnerfing everything they see fit and never buffing. 

Everything players use in the meta rotates out because the devs just nerfs it in turn. It's like they're playing whack-a-mole until we're back to punching each other with fists. This isn't a Rev only issue, it's an every single class issue. 

People can already run legends other than Glint and be successful with Herald.  Jalis/Shiro is successful on core and ren because it’s a solid combo already. And If Herald e-spec isn’t about Glint stance then what is it about?  The only major difference between Herald and Core is an additional weapon, some new traits, and a change to the F2.  Unlike other classes, all of Rev elite specs “change their gameplay” primarily through their new legend options as opposed to major mechanic changes. 

 

And again, how is forcing Shiro/Jalis to be the best power rev combo for Rev across the board for all of its e-specs increasing build diversity?? 

Edited February 15, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Shao.7236]

5 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

People can already run legends other than Glint and be successful with Herald.  Jalis/Shiro is successful on core and ren because it’s a solid combo already. And If Herald e-spec isn’t about Glint stance then what is it about?  The only major difference between Herald and Core is an additional weapon, some new traits, and a change to the F2.  Unlike other classes, all of Rev elite specs “change their gameplay” primarily through their new legend options as opposed to major mechanic changes. 

 

And again, how is forcing Shiro/Jalis to be the best power rev combo for Rev across the board for all of its e-specs increasing build diversity?? 

Yes, factually Revenant is not the most diverse in a sense but it does have a lot to do with the same content. It's not exactly obvious but in the heat of the action it does become apparent after a while that there is so much to achieve with one skill alone.

 

I've seen complains about the bloat in said skills, while somewhat true, much of what Revenant does wouldn't be possible without that since every action so often means that nothing can be done until a certain time while every other professions are able to do something in the mean time.

 

Even to this day I still find small almost meaningless synergies that actually can work to a greater degree which is not as prominent in other professions because most of the skills are forward and simple in their purpose. Revenant truly has only little but those are powerful skills and those are meant to be used to such a degree of cleverness, finding and creating a lot of combo's in it's flow so that the latter/current effects always keep you an edge above the others.

 

Revenant is kinda like trying to draw something with a pen with little lift as possible, trying to keep the same line on going constantly.

 

[Klowdy.3126]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:02 AM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Change s5 to be Invulnerability.

I see a lot of people complain about s5 and how it sucks because you cannot move. But the root on s5 is exactly what makes it unique and interesting over just making shield rev a clone of other specs shield. Making it an invuln would allow the downside of self-root as a valid tradeoff for not being cheesable by unblockable AoEs, and would also better fit the skill name "Hibernation". So this is a straightforward way to make the skill less-bad while keeping it unique.

/2cents

Aren't animals at their most vulnerable during hibernation?