Zyreva.1078 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Zephyrus.9680 said: It only "hurts" roamers trying to sneak camps uncontested or small groups trying to 4v1 before the other side can respond. For actual fights it creates them. My server does this and it motivates large amounts of fights at all scales so that isn't an issue. I'm going to guess the real issue is the server attacking the camp was having trouble winning a fight in the first place. This is the only context where golems in a camp make sense. They can't be repaired and it takes a loong time to build that many so a server has to be in a decisively weaker position for that to happen. The argument would be without golems contesting they might have at least captured the camp before the other server could respond. Maybe there's a point about demoralization no one wants to admit but hurting fights is not what it does. If there is one common notion i noticed among players who abuse golems for camp defense it is that they are not able to defeat attackers with even numbers, or even when outnumbering. It is always players who are bad at fighting. Don't remember a single exception. If players actually want to fight for camps, they can do that without golems. Edited February 21, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) What the majority is abusing is what the majority will defend till the end. Edited February 22, 2022 by Caedmon.6798 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinny.5176 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I agree as flagging A disable golem with player in it to where it doesn't count as contesting.....the have dodges and a bubble to stop a disable. And as smart groups3-10 ....one active golem DISABLED should not count towards contested....its like invurnable skills...they can't do anything for duration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Yeah, there is no defense for keeping golem's ability to contest other than 'I'm bad'. If a camp needs defending, then resources need devoted to it, and if resources are devoted they are taken from somewhere else, so it's balanced. One resource stopping a ton by jumping in a golem with 30k health isn't balanced. At bare minimum make it a tactic or something. So if you pull the tactic the golems will have ability to contest for say a minute (or whatever structure invuln times are) and then that's it. It goes on CD for 10 minutes or whatever. If it's not a tactic and they won't change it, then buff the dune roller to demolish golems. That way you can at least use a tactic from another camp against it, as dune roller is really the only 'offensive siege' that exists, if you can call it that. Edited February 23, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said: One resource stopping a ton by jumping in a golem with 30k health isn't balanced. *240k health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPotato.7456 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) On 2/20/2022 at 1:21 AM, Zebulon.1850 said: It's high time to remove the ability for golems to prevent capping of points. The abuse of golems to prevent flipping of camps has gotten much worse recently, I usually see 5+ golems at camps now. You shouldn't need a full zerg to flip a camp, that is just poor game design. 1 person shouldn't be able to stall for unlimited time based on just having golems at a camp. Not sure how to attach this image - but Example: https://imgur.com/a/MeMBJkK Edit - at the bare minimum, if a golem is disabled, it shouldn't count for capture points. Players started building more golems to defend camps because zerg came to flip camps. Are you saying we should let people flip our camps without defending? In fact, camps are the place where most fights should take place. Players always complain about others hiding in towers and keeps to pew pew people, these are players open field fighting. therefore my answer to your request is NO. BTW: use disabler 😛 Edited February 23, 2022 by SweetPotato.7456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven.1320 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) The best camp fight I ever had was at a NC on DBL with Golems and Ballis. Was a ton of fun. Edited February 23, 2022 by Afkbrbgtgftw.7904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortigern.1987 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Quote On 2/22/2022 at 12:36 AM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said: If there is one common notion i noticed among players who abuse golems for camp defense it is that they are not able to defeat attackers with even numbers, or even when outnumbering. It is always players who are bad at fighting. Don't remember a single exception. If players actually want to fight for camps, they can do that without golems. Today, most people roam in groups of 3-5, sometimes even more. On the other hand, there is usually only one scout at a camp, if there is scout at all. In this case, the golem simply buys the time for a "even numbered fight". But this topic isn't about fights, it is about avoiding fights and flipping a camp before defenders arrive. To be honest, i'm not the biggest fan of defense golems myself, but let us not pretend that the suggested change would promote pvp or that using a legit tool means you are a bad player. Edited February 23, 2022 by Vortigern.1987 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said: Players started building more golems to defend camps because zerg came to flip camps. Are you saying we should let people flip our camps without defending? In fact, camps are the place where most fights should take place. Players always complain about others hiding in towers and keeps to pew pew people, these are players open field fighting. therefore my answer to your request is NO. BTW: use disabler 😛 Bull,kitten. People started doing that a Long time ago against Roamers. So when they hang solo in their golem they ask for a blob to show up to kick away those 2 pesky roamers. A disabler wont stop it from contesting. Edited February 23, 2022 by Caedmon.6798 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortigern.1987 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 So ganking someone with an 2.:1 advantage is fine and dandy, but asking for help isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 29 minutes ago, Caedmon.6798 said: Bull,kitten. People started doing that a Long time ago against Roamers. So when they hang solo in their golem they ask for a blob to show up to kick away those 2 pesky roamers. A disabler wont stop it from contesting. I'm pretty sure no one is interested in chasing 2 stealth abusers whole day though. You could also disable golem before enemy would get to it, thus making them incapable of using one, but that require some brain juice to execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said: I'm pretty sure no one is interested in chasing 2 stealth abusers whole day though. You could also disable golem before enemy would get to it, thus making them incapable of using one, but that require some brain juice to execute. I'm talking about Roamers,never mentioning stealth. The guy gets in the golem before people are on the camp,that should be obvious right ? But hey man,keep defending crap like this. And if you try to be true to your name,please gtfo. Edited February 23, 2022 by Caedmon.6798 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Vortigern.1987 said: So ganking someone with an 2.:1 advantage is fine and dandy, but asking for help isn't? You confuse roamers with gankers,all fine and dandy though. Roamers are usually the ones fighting outmanned,not the other way around. But the gankers are the ones responding to two people for a camp. Theres a difference there that you refuse to see. Edited February 23, 2022 by Caedmon.6798 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Vortigern.1987 said: Today, most people roam in groups of 3-5, sometimes even more. On the other hand, there is usually only one scout at a camp, if there is scout at all. In this case, the golem simply buys the time for a "even numbered fight". But this topic isn't about fights, it is about avoiding fights and flipping a camp before defenders arrive. To be honest, i'm not the biggest fan of defense golems myself, but let us not pretend that the suggested change would promote pvp or that using a legit tool means you are a bad player. This is why I'm neutral in this discussion. On one hand, it's a pain when there's like one dude lurking in a supply camp all day so they can hop in a Golem and make it pointless to try attacking. On the other hand, a lot of times zergs or small groups will hit camps and holding them at certain times is crucial. Using a Golem only helps to buy time for backup. So it's like, sometimes it's a pain when you're solo and there's not much you can do against it, or even if you have a couple friends. But also, what are people supposed to do when a larger group shows up when supply camps flip in like 10 seconds. I think a nice middle ground would be that disabling a Golem prevents capture point contribution, and maybe even have some kind of penalty if there are too many in a ring. Like say, if there are 5 active (this means piloted) Golems in a ring, then none of them will contribute to the capture point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspirine.6852 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 So they waste money and subs... hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Vortigern.1987 said: Today, most people roam in groups of 3-5, sometimes even more. Have you ever considered that this is because solo roaming got harder and harder and more frustrating over time and stuff like golems contesting camps is contributing to the frustration of solo players (who btw struggle by far the most vs golems, especially on power builds)? 1 hour ago, Vortigern.1987 said: On the other hand, there is usually only one scout at a camp, if there is scout at all. In this case, the golem simply buys the time for a "even numbered fight". But this topic isn't about fights, it is about avoiding fights and flipping a camp before defenders arrive. This does not match my experience. Most of the time camps with golems have more than one defender and even if there is only one scount inside, said player is never going to fight me (only me!). He will hop into the golem and call for help. Don't remember ever having a player fight with even numbers to defend the camp instead of relying on the golem and superior numbers. And i do run across camps with golems and defenders while solo roaming a lot, so it is not just an anecdotal experience. It happens all the time. Avoiding fights and trying to "sneak" capture the camp or bringing more numbers are the only options for a solo player to deal with golems. You reap what you sow ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said: But also, what are people supposed to do when a larger group shows up when supply camps flip in like 10 seconds. Scouting and stopping the larger grp in it's tracks before they reach the camp maybe? It is not like they tend to be very sneaky. Quote I think a nice middle ground would be that disabling a Golem prevents capture point contribution, and maybe even have some kind of penalty if there are too many in a ring. Like say, if there are 5 active (this means piloted) Golems in a ring, then none of them will contribute to the capture point. One player can only disable one golem at a time (unless they are stacked, which is usually not the case), so that only works if there are not more golems than attackers. But it doesn't help when it is the other way arround, which is also when they are the most problematic. And since golems are mobile it would be very easy to have them wait outside of the capture circle and whenever one inside dies you move the next one into the ring, to avoid exceeding that number at which golems don't contest anymore while still having many more than that. Edited February 23, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) As someone who escorts yaks in a golem just because sometimes I am deeply offended by all this golem hate. In fact I'm going to buy a new stack of golems now. My only issue with the whole thing is that you can build multiple golems and just go into one after one gets destroyed. There should be a cooldown when you eject from a golem which prevents you from entering any golem or someone else from entering that golem, and it should be greatly increased if the golem is destroyed. This would greatly increase the effectiveness of disablers. Also everyone talks about skill, but nobody wants to fight those groups with 2 full healers and 2 stealth dpsers alone either. If you really want fights, the camp itself isn't important. You're just trying to draw out defenders to kill anyways. Edited February 23, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorem.8104 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 3:21 AM, Zebulon.1850 said: It's high time to remove the ability for golems to prevent capping of points. The abuse of golems to prevent flipping of camps has gotten much worse recently, I usually see 5+ golems at camps now. You shouldn't need a full zerg to flip a camp, that is just poor game design. 1 person shouldn't be able to stall for unlimited time based on just having golems at a camp. Not sure how to attach this image - but Example: https://imgur.com/a/MeMBJkK Edit - at the bare minimum, if a golem is disabled, it shouldn't count for capture points. Hahaha that screenshot looks awesome, that's some defence dedication. Problem is though zones have a cap to how much siege can be there, so by doing that they can't really take other towers or defend keeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetPotato.7456 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said: Bull,kitten. People started doing that a Long time ago against Roamers. So when they hang solo in their golem they ask for a blob to show up to kick away those 2 pesky roamers. A disabler wont stop it from contesting. screenshots or it didn't happened. 😛 Don't you dare bull kitten me, I know lots of players who defend camps, golems defending is only "trendy" this last year or so. I log daily 12 hours in WvW + - , scouting and guild-spotting is my fav things to do, don't bull kitten me 😛 Golem is only build to defend camps at certain hours (sea/ocx mostly) and against xxx servers only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortigern.1987 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 21 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said: You confuse roamers with gankers,all fine and dandy though. Roamers are usually the ones fighting outmanned,not the other way around. But the gankers are the ones responding to two people for a camp. Theres a difference there that you refuse to see. to gank When a group of people kill a single opponent in an MMORPG. Taken to abreviate a "gang kill". That is the definition of ganking, taken from a dictionary. You complained that the lone, outnumbered guy refused to fight your group of two and asked for help instead. And yes, i refuse to see a difference if 2-3 people answer to his call and kill you becaue they now outnumber you 2:1. Sure, there are time when more than usual 2-3 people show up, but that is pretty rare and pretending this is always the case would be simply ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) On 2/24/2022 at 6:04 PM, Vortigern.1987 said: to gank When a group of people kill a single opponent in an MMORPG. Taken to abreviate a "gang kill". That is the definition of ganking, taken from a dictionary. You complained that the lone, outnumbered guy refused to fight your group of two and asked for help instead. And yes, i refuse to see a difference if 2-3 people answer to his call and kill you becaue they now outnumber you 2:1. Sure, there are time when more than usual 2-3 people show up, but that is pretty rare and pretending this is always the case would be simply ridiculous. No i complained about the guy ( Usually more as one though ) scouting a camp jumping in a golem and asking for a blob to kill the 2 roamers,reading aint hard. It even happens when i solo roam because people in this mode dont want a proper fight,they want a steamroll. Why fight 1on1 when you can sit on a golem and ask for a blob to kill a roamer because you know you prob wont win anyway right ? Edited February 28, 2022 by Caedmon.6798 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babana.7521 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 1:21 AM, Zebulon.1850 said: It's high time to remove the ability for golems to prevent capping of points. The abuse of golems to prevent flipping of camps has gotten much worse recently, I usually see 5+ golems at camps now. You shouldn't need a full zerg to flip a camp, that is just poor game design. 1 person shouldn't be able to stall for unlimited time based on just having golems at a camp. Not sure how to attach this image - but Example: https://imgur.com/a/MeMBJkK Edit - at the bare minimum, if a golem is disabled, it shouldn't count for capture points. Golem in ring without rider does not contest the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 I dont know. It's not the most engaging strategy but if they spent so much resources on camp's defence its only fair that it also requires more investment to capture it. So I guess build some trebs and drain supplies from camp so they cant build golems 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 On 2/19/2022 at 5:21 PM, Zebulon.1850 said: Not sure how to attach this image - but Example: https://imgur.com/a/MeMBJkK AFAIK they only count if someone is in one, or someone else/a NPC is in the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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