Todays nerfs prove that Anet DESPISES Solo Players

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 hours ago, Horus.8304 said:

Lets all be real: These nerfs are, at best, a month or two temperary.

yes temporary, they will become worse a month or two.

[Antycypator.9874]

Instead of nerfing sustain, Anet should have nerfed damage traits, because one-shooting everything in Open World, ignoring mechanics by doing insane damage (and melting bosses in seconds) or overhealing everything (Claw of Jormag, Vale Guardian) is the real problem.

I don't get it why Anet thinks that having a good sustain in cost of damage is bad, but shredding every mob with just 1 skill is still OK.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Horus.8304 said:

Lets all be real: These nerfs are, at best, a month or two temperary.

"Temporary" as, "we'll nef those now, and rebalance to compensate few months down in the line, but actually forget about doing it and leave it as it is for years"? Because that is how Anet nerfs things.

[Xorthos.6947]

14 hours ago, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

It seems my Thief at least will experience more down state time. Their healing skills and regen buff aren't enough to stay in a fight, which will encourage running away completely.

 

I don't know how much Spellbreaker specifically will suffer for this. But if the heal is no longer sufficient, then using daggers at all will be a punishment.

I will say that I initially felt the same way.  I was absolutely livid about the nerf to Invigorating Precision, but will say that on the spectre I have more survivability than I've ever had as a thief in the past.

 

Having said that, they completely crushed survivability of other thief specs.

[AliamRationem.5172]

37 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

I will have not problem with that "tatic", if newer class don't suck so much, my main is warrior and i hate the "gun something" concept a holosmith copy.

Also that new classes dont' synergize with anything, its seems designed with the forum vocal minority, the  nerds of pvp forums in mind.

They should remember that open world players like low intensity builds almost.

Yeah, the "nerds" are the problem.  Not the ridiculous levels of hyperbole in this thread.  Take away kittening torment runes and suddenly the best specs for solo play become "unplayable" and "broken".  kitten...

[Julischka Bean.7491]

Hmmmm...I too am a solo player.  I am a clutz and would probably get kicked from teams as a sad result.  But I love this game and play solo every day.  Do to neurological issues I am as "Get Gud" as I am ever going to be.

 

I bought the expansion knowing full well I will never get to use the turtle, and, even fishing as it requires another person in your boat to get better fish.  These two were disappointing on their own, but then to find you nerfed solo builds....feels like you shoved a knife in my chest and twisted it while manically laughing the whole time.

 

This thread shows me that there are other soloists.  Standing up for ourselves, saying "We are here...see us,"  is what needs to be done.

 

My wish is someone in Anet not only bringing this thread to Colin Johanson's attention, but ensuring he actually reads through it.

 

Thank you OP,  for providing a vehicle for me to get my  thoughts out.

 

-Lisa

[darkehawke.1269]

Guess my thief build is useless now. 

 

Quite frankly if they want each class to play a certain role then remove  builds altogether and just have each class as standard. I mean it seems this is the route they're going away by only allowing one viable build. 

 

Guess I'll be sacking EoD off now for FF14 and wait and see what state this game is a few months from now. 

[Eros.6801]

Please don't judge me because this is my personal playstyle and my opinion of this matter.

I started out gw2 on its 3rd year as a wow player who has already burnt out of constantly dungeons and raids. When i found gw2 i was a bit skeptical because this game break free from any standard mmo out there and i know alot of feels the same on their first try of gw2 but now i'm on my 7th year of gw2 because the game offers me a choice. What i've decided to be in this game is idc about dungeon nor raid, i like exploring, follow the story, helping new players, if i see someone die alot or having trouble with builds, classes, etc, i help them, give out advices, set a foundation for them in OW then what they want to do next is their choice whether its fractal, raid or PvP/WvW, yes iam a soloist down to the core.

This nerf has little impact to me because i know how the classes work over the years, i can keep myself alive its just harder. But idk about new players, ofc group up is always an option but what if they are like me ? or there isn't anyone around when someone needs help ?. Gw2 is known for casual friendly and the game just lost a bit of that tittle, with this patch more than half of solo meta builds vanished and for the first time someone asked me recommend them a build/class my mine went blank i literally don't know what to tell them when i can barely keeping my self alive, it sucks...a lot.

I'm not mad at losing the gold i invested in more than 20 sets of torment rune or all my favorite fun time solo builds get ruined but the uneccessary nerf. Battle scars, Invigorating Precision, Parasitic Contagion totally fine they can still keep themselves alive but Soul Eater 1% and S&MS 3% ? Just WHY ? Reaper survival is non-existent long ago so why 1% ? Do war takes S&MS as their main survival trait ? Seriously WHY ? What is wrong with you Anet ?

Edited March 1, 2022 by Eros.6801

[Cyninja.2954]

54 minutes ago, Eros.6801 said:

Please don't judge me because this is my personal playstyle and my opinion of this matter.

I started out gw2 on its 3rd year as a wow player who has already burnt out of constantly dungeons and raids. When i found gw2 i was a bit skeptical because this game break free from any standard mmo out there and i know alot of feels the same on their first try of gw2 but now i'm on my 7th year of gw2 because the game offers me a choice. What i've decided to be in this game is idc about dungeon nor raid, i like exploring, follow the story, helping new players, if i see someone die alot or having trouble with builds, classes, etc, i help them, give out advices, set a foundation for them in OW then what they want to do next is their choice whether its fractal, raid or PvP/WvW, yes iam a soloist down to the core.

 

That is perfectly fine. No one is forced to group or join a community in this game.

 

54 minutes ago, Eros.6801 said:

This nerf has little impact to me because i know how the classes work over the years, i can keep myself alive its just harder. But idk about new players, ofc group up is always an option but what if they are like me ? or there isn't anyone around when someone needs help ?.

 

Why is the assumption that "new player" = "bad at the game or incompetent" always the first place people go?

 

There have been a few WoW and FF14 "refugee" players trying out GW2 recently, even before the EoD launch now. How they fared or experienced the game has little to do with being new or not. It hard far more to do with what experience and willingness to learn those player brought with them.

 

The most affected by this change aren't "new" players, it's the veteran players who after thousands of hours still can't tell the difference between dodging and running head first into damage.

 

54 minutes ago, Eros.6801 said:

Gw2 is known for casual friendly and the game just lost a bit of that tittle, with this patch more than half of solo meta builds vanished and for the first time someone asked me recommend them a build/class my mine went blank i literally don't know what to tell them when i can barely keeping my self alive, it sucks...a lot.

 

GW2 is casual in that it does not require players to constantly commit to item gear grind or continuous play.

 

As far as difficulty: it's never been "casual" if casual means easy. The game has always been designed from the ground up as a mix of action and movement combat. The build system has always been rather deep, especially with recent years and competitors dumbing down their character customization. To me personally it's very irritating that players still assume that "casual" must also mean "no skill or brain-dead".

[Gorem.8104]

It was such, such, such a bad move to do this balance update with EoD's launch. If they reverted this update/ just launched EoD without these changes everything would have been fine and most would have just sat and enjoyed EoD, instead they left a bad taste in peoples mouths. They were so determined it seems to get this out at launch that they didn't think. 
Yes Scourge, Guardians and Rev's needed nerfs... in PVP. Not open world. Not every single classes getting some sustain nerf. Notes for Warriors who were hoping for large changes is a single change and its a nerf. 
All we were hoping for was updates to the E-specs. That would have been better time spent designing and balancing then nerfs. The expac launched so well too, just buggy story instances. 

I just don't get Anet sometimes, I really don't. 

[interloper.6892]

Overpowered solo openworld builds didn't affect other players.  Nerfing them just ruins the fun for solo players for no reason. 

Doing these excessive nerfs  on release day (with no communication) feels like Anet wants to make people regret buying their products...

[Dadnir.5038]

While the nerfs to the sustain are painful, they mostly don't mean much as there are already alternatives in game. The only real issue with those nerfs is that it create more "dead traits".

- Necromancer players won't feel the changes to the shroud damage reduction, soul eater or parasitic contagion, however parasitic contagion will hardly be used by anyone after the change (it already had a hard time competing with lingering curse, this change is the final nail on it's coffin).

- Thief's invigorating precision was niche at best, now with the nerf it will simply be forgotten in a dusty corner until the devs change it. The funny thing is that the devs claim that they want to reduce the reliance on shadow art but this change remove one of the few options that allowed the thief to avoid shadow art.

- Revenant's life stealing nerf hit hard but it's not like life stealing was the only mean of sustain that the revenant have. Builds will now revolve around sustain means that are less convenient but just as powerful. Staff alone can heal a lot afterall, Herald can get a lot of passive sustain throught it's traits and skills... etc.

- Spellbreaker might lose a bit of sustain on dagger but what is this puny amount of sustain loss in front of the massive sustain that you can get from might generation?

In a few month players will just either complain that the traits nerfed are dead, worthless or simply forget about them. Just like players complain that the 300s CD traits are dead and worthless. Just like people forgot the traits that proc non-crit strike damage (I mean, nobody use those traits anyway, they are just that bad)... etc.

[dougalkeane.4601]

16 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

God forbid developers of an MMO want players to play with each other more often. lol

Read the first post. Your point is addressed. If you are going to chime in, please address the actual concerns

[dougalkeane.4601]

7 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Wow the amount of likes this gets is disgusting.
This post is little more than someone's hissy fit with zero substance (which profession became "unplayable"? Which boss kicked your kitten? etc.)
And for a good reason. Because it would not stand the slightest scrutiny if it actually included any real details.

You didn't address a single point I made. 

[DragonMoon.6098]

1 hour ago, dougalkeane.4601 said:

Read the first post. Your point is addressed. If you are going to chime in, please address the actual concerns

Yeah, I'd say that gone are the days when MMO's were only for "massively multi-player" people. I've been playing Elder Scrolls Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2, and Star Wars: The Old Republic for years...as a solo player...and NONE of them require grouping to do core content. Raiding and big dungeons, sure. That's always been a group thing. But core story hasn't required groups for years. Many years. Some of them, never.

Not everybody wants to be a social butterfly online. Not everybody has time. Not everybody is a keyboard warrior or competitive player. Some people want to just log into a game and chillax after work and life. Saying things like "get gud" and "be social" should not be applicable for someone wanting to just enjoy the core story. I don't think anybody here is saying that raiding and dungeons and legendary content should be accessible to casual solo players. But for an online game to survive these days and stay relevant, it can't cater to only those keyboard warriors and/or competitive players, and it also can't cater to only casual players. It needs to cover the whole market as best it can.

Edited March 1, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[Einsof.1457]

6 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

yes temporary, they will become worse a month or two.

Good. Game is too easy as is.

[AliamRationem.5172]

46 minutes ago, dougalkeane.4601 said:

This addresses zero points brought up by people

Since the "points" being made seem to consist of pure hyperbole, I'm not sure what you want people who disagree with it to say.  The best solo survival builds in the game did not suddenly become unplayable, broken, or weak just because they removed one rune and made a couple of perfectly justifiable nerfs (i.e. scourge barrier healing coefficients and battle scars - not so sure on the thief nerf, honestly, as they actually have to pay for theirs and they aren't high sustain to begin with).

It's clear that any reduction to sustain even on the top dogs who were all abusing the same rune is unacceptable to this crowd.  I wonder how anyone who wanted to play anything else feels about it?  You know other classes don't get to slap on a rune to massively boost their sustain while also increasing their damage.  They actually have to pay for that by giving up damage and they can't get anywhere near that much healing for it in exchange.

These changes seem to be all about fixing that imbalance by cutting down on the no-cost healing/barrier these builds were capable of.  Stuff like that makes it hard to balance for other classes that don't have access to this stuff.  It was clearly overpowered and nerfing it should allow them to introduce some degree of parity here.  That will likely require some additional balancing down the road, but I think this was mostly the right move to make.

[Pezz.4758]

2 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Since the "points" being made seem to consist of pure hyperbole, I'm not sure what you want people who disagree with it to say.  The best solo survival builds in the game did not suddenly become unplayable, broken, or weak just because they removed one rune and made a couple of perfectly justifiable nerfs (i.e. scourge barrier healing coefficients and battle scars - not so sure on the thief nerf, honestly, as they actually have to pay for theirs and they aren't high sustain to begin with).

It's clear that any reduction to sustain even on the top dogs who were all abusing the same rune is unacceptable to this crowd.  I wonder how anyone who wanted to play anything else feels about it?  You know other classes don't get to slap on a rune to massively boost their sustain while also increasing their damage.  They actually have to pay for that by giving up damage and they can't get anywhere near that much healing for it in exchange.

These changes seem to be all about fixing that imbalance by cutting down on the no-cost healing/barrier these builds were capable of.  Stuff like that makes it hard to balance for other classes that don't have access to this stuff.  It was clearly overpowered and nerfing it should allow them to introduce some degree of parity here.  That will likely require some additional balancing down the road, but I think this was mostly the right move to make.

 

You cant logic out someones taste in art, and at the end of the day GW2 is a luxury escapism vehicle, not a staple needed for survival. Its entertainment.

Ill agree some of the framing is a bit wild but Ill be honest, it was a BAD first impression. 

All hyped up, waiting in line, Anet stream and MightyTeapot on the second monitor, 15 minutes, 10, AMG its patching

And at the PEAK hype I find out that the 3 mains I had spent the last 2 weeks kitting out were neutered.

It doesnt matter what the objective reality of the changes are, if anything its a marketing blunder more than anything. 

I had to stop and think, I have never read release day patch notes of a NEW expansion that made my character WEAKER in over 20 years of playing MMOs, not ONCE. Until now.

 

At the end of the day I logged in, saw the 45 gold in torment runes, the transmog on my thief I had just right, sitting in the first character slot to appease my OCD ready to go and said F it and went for a ride on my bike instead.

I came back later, played through a BUNCH of the story and it was great, the maps events story writing music always excellent.

But in the back of my head I now have, anet whispering "dont have too much fun theyll take it away." 

 

I lived through wildstar, i feel bad for everyone involved, the expansion really is addressing alot of players concerns, and Anet deserves this chance to show that off, but at the same time, is SO tone def in how to DO that it can be off putting. 

 

As for me, Ill play it like I always do, pop in and out as I can with life until Ive forgotten it was ever a thing, just like wildstar. 

But Im here replying to you, on day 2, so maybe a bit less interested in popping in than before

 

 

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Praise Joko for the Tormenting Runes nerf. Yes, this was an absolute gutting, and yes it was well-deserved. They trivialized content and super-powered any class that has access to large amounts of torment to the point of absurdity. Being able to faceroll through content without having to use your heal skill is bad design. I say this as a Rev main who has exploited these since they were reworked. There are still stat spreads like Trailblazer to help ease players through harder content, so it is not like these builds are unplayable now. They are just back to being at a reasonable level. And it's nice to feel like I'm not hard-locked into one rune set without feeling like I'm massively crippling myself by not taking it. 

 

With all that said, the actual trait nerfs did seem a bit harsh for some of the classes. 

[SirAmikVarse.2793]

I hate the changes, as does my partner - I cant be bothered to go over the exact reasons as others have done so better then I could but I wanted to add my 'me too' here.

Please change it back, as it is you have killed my enthusiasm for the game in one fell swoop.

No one benefits from this and defending it makes no sense to me.

If it doesn't effect you understand it does effect others.

Edited March 1, 2022 by SirAmikVarse.2793

[Einsof.1457]

21 minutes ago, SirAmikVarse.2793 said:

I hate the changes, as does my partner - I cant be bothered to go over the exact reasons as others have done so better then I could but I wanted to add my 'me too' here.

Please change it back, as it is you have killed my enthusiasm for the game in one fell swoop.

No one benefits from this and defending it makes no sense to me.

If it doesn't effect you understand it does effect others.

sorry you will have to dodge more. 😞 buttons are hard. 

[mindcircus.1506]

Just going to weigh in on this as someone who helped popularize many of the builds that were impacted by yesterday's change:

The torment runes were a crutch.

Full stop.

Condi Scourge for Open World never should have been running them in the first place. Parasitic Contagion+Full cDPS runes were a much more efficient choice. Anyone saying otherwise does't understand the build.
Anyone playing Rev in OW that did not expect a hard spank to Battle Scars does needs to play another class/spec to see the difference.
When you are playing something that feels as OP as Battle Scars, where you suddenly feel like a god for exploiting one trait, you need to rationally expect to get snoop booped.  All you had to do was play something other than Rev under the same scenarios to understand it.

There's a lot of hysterical and typically childish rants on this thread so I will ask that a couple of things get kept in mind.
1. Balance
Up until yesterday there were only three builds you responsibly could give a player looking for a good OW build, because they were so out of whack with the rest that any other build was simply not an option.

These were Condi Shortbow Renegade, Viper's Scourge, and Condi Firebrand. All three of which offered a sustain level that was out of line with the damage they were doing.
Sustain that was completely passive. There was no trade off.
In fact in Scourge's case, the more damage, the better the passive sustain.... you know... standing there healing.
The answer to this is not to power creep the game and make 18 specs as viable as those three. It's to lower those three until the other options become viable.

2. Reality
The three hard spanked builds were not the only builds capable of soloing a desert bounty.

They were the three that were overperforming in this regard.

All three builds can still solo a desert bounty.
The actual builds impacted by this are niche builds like Condi Mirage and Condi Thief, who could rightly complain that the one thing that kept them reelvant for OW big game hunting is gone.

Anyone complaining about the impact on Condi Rev or Scourge is, quite simply, camping too many red circles and should look at this as the nudge they need to improve their play.

 

3. The Future:
Anyone living off Predator's Cunning on Condi Soulbeast should also be very worried.

 

4. This is not a "vendetta" against the solo player.
This is balance, they just made a good dozen builds much more viable.

Good players adapt.

Solo MMO players understand the special breed of challenge that comes with their playstyle. It's why they choose to solo MMOs. Expecting some God Mode build is not realistic or healthy.

[Zeph.5927]

I find it to be quite ironic that the original premise of this game was to break away from the holy trinity that was present in other MMOs. They even went as far to say that they wanted players to be able to take care of themselves on their own without needing to rely on someone else to heal them/tank for them/etc.

And ever since then, they’ve done nothing but do the exact opposite. They’ve incorporated more and more of the holy trinity system into the game with elite specs and continuously nerf all the effective ways players have to take care of themselves and keep themselves alive.

Self sustain for classes should be a selling point of this game based on their original design goals. Instead they smash it down every time it starts to become effective for players.

Both hilarious and frustrating at the same time.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Zeph.5927

[Einsof.1457]

3 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I find it to be quite ironic that the original premise of this game was to break away from the holy trinity that was present in other MMOs. They even went as far to say that they wanted players to be able to take care of themselves on their own without needing to rely on someone else to heal them/tank for them/etc.

And ever since then, they’ve done nothing but do the exact opposite. They’ve incorporated more and more of the holy trinity system into the game with elite specs and continuously nerf all the effective ways players have to take care of themselves and keep themselves alive.

Self sustain for classes should be a selling point of this game based on their original design goals. Instead they smash it down every time it starts to become effective for players.

Both hilarious and frustrating at the same time.

are we playing the same game? Everyone has access to heals. Everyone has access to regen, shields, dodges, etc. etc. Get a grip.

[AliamRationem.5172]

44 minutes ago, SirAmikVarse.2793 said:

I hate the changes, as does my partner - I cant be bothered to go over the exact reasons as others have done so better then I could but I wanted to add my 'me too' here.

Please change it back, as it is you have killed my enthusiasm for the game in one fell swoop.

No one benefits from this and defending it makes no sense to me.

If it doesn't effect you understand it does effect others.

It affects people who don't play those builds and can't keep up.  But you'd just tell them to grab some tormenting runes, renegade/scourge/mirage and roll face.  Forget about playing a class that doesn't do everything for you automatically unless you're "gud enough" to play it, right?  Yes, balance does matter.  It does not just impact you and your class.