Todays nerfs prove that Anet DESPISES Solo Players

[Scoobaniec.9561]

37 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

sorry you will have to dodge more. 😞 buttons are hard. 

Wanna duel?

[Zeph.5927]

20 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Shroud DR nerfed in pve but not pvp, mantra of solace nerfed even more (it already does nothing but give aegis in pvp). And then all the pve nerfs, gotta pave the way so everyone plays the new specs I guess.

The new specs aren’t even that great either. Most range from bad to mediocre mostly.

[Super Hayes.6890]

27 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Just going to weigh in on this as someone who helped popularize many of the builds that were impacted by yesterday's change:

The torment runes were a crutch.

Full stop.

Condi Scourge for Open World never should have been running them in the first place. Parasitic Contagion+Full cDPS runes were a much more efficient choice. Anyone saying otherwise does't understand the build.
Anyone playing Rev in OW that did not expect a hard spank to Battle Scars does needs to play another class/spec to see the difference.
When you are playing something that feels as OP as Battle Scars, where you suddenly feel like a god for exploiting one trait, you need to rationally expect to get snoop booped.  All you had to do was play something other than Rev under the same scenarios to understand it.

There's a lot of hysterical and typically childish rants on this thread so I will ask that a couple of things get kept in mind.
1. Balance
Up until yesterday there were only three builds you responsibly could give a player looking for a good OW build, because they were so out of whack with the rest that any other build was simply not an option.

These were Condi Shortbow Renegade, Viper's Scourge, and Condi Firebrand. All three of which offered a sustain level that was out of line with the damage they were doing.
Sustain that was completely passive. There was no trade off.
In fact in Scourge's case, the more damage, the better the passive sustain.... you know... standing there healing.
The answer to this is not to power creep the game and make 18 specs as viable as those three. It's to lower those three until the other options become viable.

2. Reality
The three hard spanked builds were not the only builds capable of soloing a desert bounty.

They were the three that were overperforming in this regard.

All three builds can still solo a desert bounty.
The actual builds impacted by this are niche builds like Condi Mirage and Condi Thief, who could rightly complain that the one thing that kept them reelvant for OW big game hunting is gone.

Anyone complaining about the impact on Condi Rev or Scourge is, quite simply, camping too many red circles and should look at this as the nudge they need to improve their play.

 

3. The Future:
Anyone living off Predator's Cunning on Condi Soulbeast should also be very worried.

 

4. This is not a "vendetta" against the solo player.
This is balance, they just made a good dozen builds much more viable.

Good players adapt.

Solo MMO players understand the special breed of challenge that comes with their playstyle. It's why they choose to solo MMOs. Expecting some God Mode build is not realistic or healthy.

The main issue is the timing. The changes are good for balance. Releasing a balance patch of any kind at the same time as new content takes attention and hype away from the new content. This was a bad move because of the timing. Invalidating entire builds on release day is a needless slap to the face for players that have been waiting two years to play this expansion pack. After my client updated yesterday I turned off my computer. I am going to log in and play the expansion with my kids as soon as I get past the irritation of reworking my daughter's build. I would like to build my hype back up. Terrible timing for that kind of nerf.

[DragonMoon.6098]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's clear that any reduction to sustain even on the top dogs who were all abusing the same rune is unacceptable to this crowd.  I wonder how anyone who wanted to play anything else feels about it?  You know other classes don't get to slap on a rune to massively boost their sustain while also increasing their damage.  They actually have to pay for that by giving up damage and they can't get anywhere near that much healing for it in exchange.

I started out with a Tormenting Viper Condi Rev, and used it for a short while, but then moved on to using a Traveler Trailblazer Condi Rev instead and enjoy that build much better. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[Eternia.9375]

I think the main thing to understand here is that most of those sustain builds were for solo play and open world content. In my mind I can't see how it hurts anyone else or affects the game balance if I want to run around a map on my own with a mirage, scourge, renegade or whatever.  I find the low intensity builds fun and easy to play, I have pain in my finger and wrist joints due to my hypermobility so why shouldn't I be able to play what I want and what is good for my health? It's a game isn't it? It's meant to be fun, and having multiple play options is part of that fun. If someone wants to face roll, so what? If someone wants to play a harder build, so what? Good on each of them, they're both doing what they want. 

More builds and more options equals more people happy. Let people play how they want, with whatever skill level and physical capability they have. Is that such a terrible thing?

[Cuks.8241]

Many of the nerfs were long time coming. People have been pointing them out for years. For once I dont see these to harsh.

Also I dont see these as a way to get people to play new elites. Most nerfs were aimed at the core features and will impact all elites. And I dont see that any of these will push the top specs from the pedestal. 

I dont see any reason why there shouldnt be some balance between proffs in open world. 

Also rev will remain one of the top dogs in ow soloing. The proff is just silly loaded with sustain baseline. People might actually take the sustain traits and legend for once. Amg attrocity. Scourge similarly. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Cuks.8241

[DragonMoon.6098]

47 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Just going to weigh in on this as someone who helped popularize many of the builds that were impacted by yesterday's change:

The torment runes were a crutch.

Full stop.

Condi Scourge for Open World never should have been running them in the first place. Parasitic Contagion+Full cDPS runes were a much more efficient choice. Anyone saying otherwise does't understand the build.
Anyone playing Rev in OW that did not expect a hard spank to Battle Scars does needs to play another class/spec to see the difference.
When you are playing something that feels as OP as Battle Scars, where you suddenly feel like a god for exploiting one trait, you need to rationally expect to get snoop booped.  All you had to do was play something other than Rev under the same scenarios to understand it.

There's a lot of hysterical and typically childish rants on this thread so I will ask that a couple of things get kept in mind.
1. Balance
Up until yesterday there were only three builds you responsibly could give a player looking for a good OW build, because they were so out of whack with the rest that any other build was simply not an option.

These were Condi Shortbow Renegade, Viper's Scourge, and Condi Firebrand. All three of which offered a sustain level that was out of line with the damage they were doing.
Sustain that was completely passive. There was no trade off.
In fact in Scourge's case, the more damage, the better the passive sustain.... you know... standing there healing.
The answer to this is not to power creep the game and make 18 specs as viable as those three. It's to lower those three until the other options become viable.

2. Reality
The three hard spanked builds were not the only builds capable of soloing a desert bounty.

They were the three that were overperforming in this regard.

All three builds can still solo a desert bounty.
The actual builds impacted by this are niche builds like Condi Mirage and Condi Thief, who could rightly complain that the one thing that kept them reelvant for OW big game hunting is gone.

Anyone complaining about the impact on Condi Rev or Scourge is, quite simply, camping too many red circles and should look at this as the nudge they need to improve their play.

 

3. The Future:
Anyone living off Predator's Cunning on Condi Soulbeast should also be very worried.

 

4. This is not a "vendetta" against the solo player.
This is balance, they just made a good dozen builds much more viable.

Good players adapt.

Solo MMO players understand the special breed of challenge that comes with their playstyle. It's why they choose to solo MMOs. Expecting some God Mode build is not realistic or healthy.

What about the changes to the Power Scrapper? I haven't played mine yet, but I was new to the build anyways. 

[Super Hayes.6890]

9 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Many of the nerfs were long time coming. People have been pointing them out for years. For once I dont see these to harsh.

Also I dont see these as a way to get people to play new elites. Most nerfs were aimed at the core features and will impact all elites. And I dont see that any of these will push the top specs from the pedestal. 

I dont see any reason why there shouldnt be some balance between proffs in open world. 

Also rev will remain one of the top dogs in ow soloing. The proff is just silly loaded with sustain baseline. People might actually take the sustain traits and legend for once. Amg attrocity. Scourge similarly. 

If they were a long time coming then why specifically release them on expansion day. That is trully my only problem with these nerfs.

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

If they were a long time coming then why specifically release them on expansion day. That is trully my only problem with these nerfs.

I dont see the difference. Expansions often bring some changes in class power balance and a fresh start for many. 

[Cuks.8241]

5 minutes ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

What about the changes to the Power Scrapper? I haven't played mine yet, but I was new to the build anyways. 

Power scrapper barrier was a broken joke. You took one or 2 traits and you had nice barrier generation scaling with dmg. It was not a sustain trade off but reverse of what it should be. It went a bit under the radar just because it wasnt as competitive as rev where also the trade off was practically non existant. 

[Super Hayes.6890]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

I dont see the difference. Expansions often bring some changes in class power balance and a fresh start for many. 

I never had to adjust my build for the other expasions on release day. I think balance patches and content releases should be seperate. If I try an new elite spec then sure, but if I just want to jump into the story I don't expect a build rework on release day.

[Cuks.8241]

Just now, Super Hayes.6890 said:

I never had to adjust my build for the other expasions on release day. I think balance patches and content releases should be seperate. If I try an new elite spec then sure, but if I just want to jump into the story I don't expect a build rework on release day.

I doubt you will need to do much adjusting for ow. 

[Stx.4857]

I find it interesting that all the people in this thread defending these changes are only talking about the torment runes mainly...

 

No one seems to be mentioning the gutting of Scrapper, power Thief self healing, or the hilarious nerf to spellbreaker sun and moon.   None of these builds are near the top of the Solo build hierarchy.

 

Overall these sustain nerfs were poorly executed and just show how lazy the development style is.  These changes don't just nerf these traits, they kill them.  No one will ever spec invigorating precision, no one will use Scrapper for soloing.  

[mindcircus.1506]

25 minutes ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

 This was a bad move because of the timing. Invalidating entire builds on release day is a needless slap to the face for players that have been waiting two years to play this expansion pack.

ZERO Builds were invalidated yesterday.

All hard spanked builds are still able to solo a desert bounty.

Stop arguing in bad faith.
There was no slap in the face. To position them as such is myopic.
 

[George.9745]

Anet starting to show it's true colors lately.

[Cuks.8241]

2 minutes ago, George.9745 said:

Anet starting to show it's true colors lately.

Agree finaly some balance. 

[Pomdepin.7068]

I think it also shows that some things have been utterly OP for much time... Without digging much, when I see "epidemic condi stacks transferred from 25 to 5", "cool down reduction reduced from 100% to 20%", etc. I mean, how can you go so hard on something?! You're either making it totally useless or recognizing it was OP for long. I don't get Anet's balance at all...

 

Looks to me line they want their new specs to be played so they nerf the hell out of the others. But you also have collateral damage like torment runes it seems.

 

Balance is still a joke to me here, and I hate it. 😞

[Pezz.4758]

37 minutes ago, Super Hayes.6890 said:

The main issue is the timing. The changes are good for balance. Releasing a balance patch of any kind at the same time as new content takes attention and hype away from the new content. This was a bad move because of the timing. Invalidating entire builds on release day is a needless slap to the face for players that have been waiting two years to play this expansion pack. After my client updated yesterday I turned off my computer. I am going to log in and play the expansion with my kids as soon as I get past the irritation of reworking my daughter's build. I would like to build my hype back up. Terrible timing for that kind of nerf.

 

This SO much this, its a marketing issue in A LOT of ways.

 

Yes, things needed to be brought in line, but I cant get over the fact that this is an expansion, GW doesnt have a level

or gear treadmill, so when classes are changed to be weaker, no matter how small, the PERCEPTION that my character is getting weaker as I advance through the game completely destroys any reason to play that game.

 

It breaks immersion. Wait, I just killed 5 elder dragons, Im opening up a new hidden land full of damage and the BIGGEST of big bads, and 5 minutes before I start I read that Im doing it with a broken wing.

 

And absolutely players need to learn dodge and other mechanics, and Anet did a GREAT job of building in tutorials and heart quests to encourage that. 

 

But GW2 doesn't exist in a vacuum. When you throw the need to do those things at players that havent needed to RIGHT before a major release BEFORE they are invested, its not going to go well.

 

Heck, Elden Ring just came out and is getting MASSIVE hype EVERYWHERE, when I hear "learn to dodge, learn mechanics, learn to adapt, and overcome" I dont think GW2, I think kitten ya i should check out the new FROM soft game.

 

No, Im obviously in no way suggesting the difficulty is anywhere near close, or the games are anywhere near the same, Im saying the timing of the change into more rigid gameplay requirements could NOT have been worse if they tried. And when I look at the lack of hype around the expansion, on twitch, in player enthusiasm, it seems evident. 

 

The expansion as a story driven RPG is worth the cost of investment for me, and i think anyone with the slightest interest in guild wars lore. But as a forever game? An mmo with rigid solo accountability, focus on 10 player content, every evolving away from the "play as you want" mythos, is not what I was sold when I bought into the game.

 

That said, Im having a great time in the story, and Ill continue to do so until its not fun anymore. I just hope the risk turns out to be worth it, because i do want to see GW2 succeed and i KNOW this dev team can figure out how to appease anyone, they just have to figure out WHO they are trying to appease. 

[Zacchary.6183]

A lot of players asked for more role presence for professions for end game content. Anet wants more people in end game content. So they make a bunch of support for each profession and give multiple avenues for players to ease into harder content. What did you expect to happen?

[Jianyu.7065]

I wonder how this will affect me as a pve/ow solo condi thief NOT using IP or torment runes 🤷‍♂️

[Funky.4861]

3 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

A lot of players asked for more role presence for professions for end game content. Anet wants more people in end game content. So they make a bunch of support for each profession and give multiple avenues for players to ease into harder content. What did you expect to happen?

Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it...

Not a fan of the nerfs tbh. Unless they nerf boss damage and hp, as well as the damage from encounter mechanics. I think the thief nerf and the fb aegis nerf will hit raids harder than the others.

[Zacchary.6183]

1 minute ago, Funky.4861 said:

Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it...

Not a fan of the nerfs tbh. Unless they nerf boss damage and hp, as well as the damage from encounter mechanics. I think the thief nerf and the fb aegis nerf will hit raids harder than the others.

No doubt. A slight nerf to IP would been fine but not what they did. Even so, I am not sweating it that much because Specter is looking to be a very powerful healer and tank.

[figloalds.1274]

I second this. I know that they nerfed rune of tormenting mainly because Harbinger applies way too much Torment, but they could have simply added a small cooldown timer instead of killing the set/strategy.

They're optimizing the fun out of the game

[Zeph.5927]

1 hour ago, Einsof.1457 said:

are we playing the same game? Everyone has access to heals. Everyone has access to regen, shields, dodges, etc. etc. Get a grip.

The recent nerfs and their design philosophy as of late speaks to the contrary. So I would say you’re playing a different game than the rest of us.

[Einsof.1457]

3 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

The recent nerfs and their design philosophy as of late speaks to the contrary. So I would say you’re playing a different game than the rest of us.

 I guess so. No issue keeping myself alive in new zones so far, and i fight a lot of mobs all at once.