Unpopular opinion: I like Untamed

[Arheundel.6451]

Downvote me with sad face all you want but I had to say it: Untamed fills that niche I was looking for in a very long time for ranger, perfect it may not be but the spec offers enough dmg and utility to still fill my desired role, and enough sustain to maintain balance. The combination of unleashed pet AoE block and another from the siege turtle will make my ranger that much more useful during small skirmishs against the ever present pewpew grenade/shortbow renegades, ana again the Hammer deal very decent dmg for tagging and feels great to play with.

The boon removal with gs and hammer add a nice factor....but alone is nowhere enough to be called an actual boon removal spec, it will add pressure on enemy team when paired with other boon removal specs....I would have love for the pet unleash skill 2 to remove 4-5 boons given the CD...but guess 2 will have to do.

The pets are....balanced, thx god nothing broken OP where every Timmy shouts to gut their dmg/sustain with an average of 3 nerf threads per day...yes ofc eventually some Timmy will cry about that pet or that other, you can't get rid of Timmy and they always there.

-The turtle is clearly a PvP/WvW pet

-The phoenix is ...a bizarro version of Jacaranda, so PvE mostly and some niche duelling build maybe

-The wallow...hmm..ok

-The white tiger....good on sb I guess, will have some use on duellist untamed I know

-The kirin...sorry it was not in PvP and got no time to pve look for it, but if my GW1 memory servers me right...it will be a support/tank pet to pair with turtle in WvW

Overall happy with Untamed and yes, this is an unpopular opinion as the average player simply looks for a stronger duellist build with every expansion or high dps for golem benchmark; Untamed is not a duellist spec and it's not meant to substitute Soulbeast, instead it offers better teamfight potential than any other ranger spec and that's the gameplay which was missing from ranger, again Untamed may not be the ideal solution I was looking for but...both the traitline and gameplay are decent, and I have tried : bladesworn...willbender and catalyst....yeah...thx god I have Untamed, only reason I have bought EoD.

Sorry for the unpopular opinion....yeah feel free to add as many sad face or laugh as you want

Edited March 1, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[InsaneQR.7412]

No sad face from me tbh.

It definetly has some aspects that appeal to me as well.

Its just the ever returning thought that the ranger e-specs are not congruently designed.

Soulbeast has the perfect mechanic to be a zerg spec. The utilities feel zerg oriented. The weapon is DPS oriented and the traits are clearly that of a DPS or a dueller.

Druid is pure support but oddly enough has some weird CC trait interactions that strike out and gets stealth to be even more tanky?

And lastly Untamed has a class mechanics and skills that focus on conditions while the spec itself is more power based and some traits give you boons for CCing something.

IMO all elite specs of ranger are not bad but feel lacking across the board. Soulbeast feels more like a hammer spec that rins in zergs and focusses on CC. Untamed more like a condi spec that should have dagger and stealth and druid is one dimensional which only two options i know of is support or ancient seeds. Druid just woudl need its playstyles to be better diversified.

I wish they would update core and following this all e-specs with it.

Edited March 1, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[anduriell.6280]

Yes it is an unpopular opinion but i think you don't need to apologize, you like it and that is fine. I personally find it depressing even for openworld PvE. Doing bosses or story instances in Soulbeast feels better than trying to do them in the untamed.

In have to say the simple fact that knowing there is no progress for me as the pets are terrible and the spec is garbage taints the rest of the expansion for me. EoD feels empty and dull. 

As a matter of fact I can see the potential you see on the elite which is the saddest part of it all. I could point out some details about the "balanced pets", for example:

* What thought process followed a dev to put a boomerang blink with no damage in a melee pet, It is a blink but it can't be used as a close gap and it doesn't do any damage, evade  or any other effect which justifies the skill. What is the point of the skill.... 

* Same goes for the rest of the pets: Uninspired and bland. We are not talking about damage or utility, the design itself is garbage. Example: Why the turtle couldn't be dedicated as support with the mortar thing being the autoattack. What's the point to have an slam in there or the bite in a defensive pet. Wouldn't be better to have a ranged autoattack and the rest of the skills dedicated to support the team.... 

* using hammer feels like spamming all the skills for no return. All skills look the same i can swear i think Anet even removed some animations like in Hammer#5, Hammer#3 and Hammer#4. The originals were bland but this ones are just gargabe tier. 

It does not matter at this point. Anet will not fix this garbage tier elite spec, anet can not fix the pets so they new pets at least makes sense, the only out they have now is to delete the soulbeast so they artificially make an spot for the new spec. 

They more or less fixed the Willbender... Couldn't do a thing about the ranger.  And nobody likes this spec. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[HotDelirium.7984]

I expected the phoenix to have some actual fire damage as is condi from its breath attack and maybe some regeneration...like a phoenix...but it doesn't and they NEED to fix the shortbow ambush skill which is ground targeted.

[captrowdy.9561]

I am having a blast. Mainly play WvW on soulbeast. I haven’t tried untamed in WvW yet but had a decent time In spvp. It’s super fun in open world pve. The skill recharge on longbow is hilarious. I feel like this spec will just anger the folks that complain about pew pew rangers in wvw. 

[Levetty.1279]

I do as well so there is at least two of us. This of course is only in open world. I think the hammer plays better then the GS which I was getting bored of anyway, I love ambushes, the unleashed pet skills are pretty much better then anything a pet actually normally has for open world and there are some pretty good traits.

 

I can also see that it is actually useless everywhere and even Soulbeast would probably be better for openworld so I hope it actually gets straightened out and gets the buffs it needs, if for nothing else so that its even more fun in openworld.

 

10 second or less cooldown on Ambushes please Anet. Could help bring its damage up to acceptable levels for PvE if you made it even less then 10.

[Gorem.8104]

You can like the spec that has the lowest pet dps and is selfish and gimps yourself with less survivability, cc and damage as our other specs all you like without needing to tell us or apologise. 

What Untamed has given us is another way to play Ranger, a worse and clunkier and playing Ranger in a nerfed state, sure, but hey at least its another way to play a class even if you have to kitten the class 

[Zyreva.1078]

Without significant changes to pets i can't see a ranger spec that relies on those as actually decent teamfighter. Because as it is, you just end up as class without class mechanic rather quickly. I play a lot of soulbeast in a small scale grp in WvW and it works great. During the betas i also tried to make untamed work in the exact same setting, because on paper it offers exactly what i wanted for ranger and the gameplay was quite fun. But no chance, it was almost as bad as core ranger, which is one of the worst things you could bring to team fights. Doubt anything has changed now. If you want a spec that can actually do well at teamfights, especially in WvW - soulbeast is the way to go.

Ofc if all you want is a spec that can "tag" a bunch of players who got run over by your "team" feel free to play whatever you want. Anything will work.

[Lazze.9870]

20 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Without significant changes to pets i can't see a ranger spec that relies on those as actually decent teamfighter. Because as it is, you just end up as class without class mechanic rather quickly. I play a lot of soulbeast in a small scale grp in WvW and it works great. During the betas i also tried to make untamed work in the exact same setting, because on paper it offers exactly what i wanted for ranger and the gameplay was quite fun. But no chance, it was almost as bad as core ranger, which is one of the worst things you could bring to team fights. Doubt anything has changed now. If you want a spec that can actually do well at teamfights, especially in WvW - soulbeast is the way to go.

Yup. Funny how some people were denying this pre-launch.

Untamed should have been petless, or AI-less. Or perhaps the core ranger mechanic should have been an elite spec on its own- akin to the mechanist - leaving core ranger with a better foundation for other elite specs.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[caveslug.5934]

If you're having fun with it, you be you.

Maybe it will grow on me over time, but I was "expecting" more. Just feels like more of the same.

[BadSanta.6527]

First time i loved it

Second time not so much 

[InsaneQR.7412]

So played a little with it as an emulation of my diviner soulbeast power build. Its not bad. Good damage, good sustain and after you get used to commanding your pet it feels really refreshing. Although pets still feel really outdated. The hammer transform still feels weird too. I wish they would make all weaponskills flippable for the sacrifice of weaponswap. But make the skills real good at controlling your target. That would be a tradeoff for the spec but we would really get something to play arround with.

Edited March 1, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[Ehecatl.9172]

I'm also enjoying it for the most part. The one trait that reduces out cooldowns when we hit a stun or knock-back makes for some fun longbow gameplay that makes ranged combat more rapid pace. I also like having more control over the pet and I like the new Unleashed pet skills that give it more utility.

 

The Ambush skills are also pretty cool. Right now I am playing around with a sort of overwhelming Alpha Strike build that combos Ambush and Opening Strike. Too bad there isn't a "gain fury when you Unleash" trait. It'd let the two lines synergize really well.

 

It is kind of baffling how little survivability the spec offers the pet though. I think that is my biggest criticism. Anet didn't even TRY to make the pet more survivable. Every ranger player ever knew that to be a viable front lines fighter the pet needed survival options, yet the first version of Untamed the pet didn't benefit from ANY of the Untamed defensive abilities which is just insane to me.

 

Something to hope gets improved on in the following months I guess. 

[Razadune.9260]

4 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

It is kind of baffling how little survivability the spec offers the pet though. I think that is my biggest criticism

     

I like the spec better than I thought I would, but this is definitely a huge problem. Champions will pancake the pet quickly, which maybe isn't unexpected entirely, but it's a problem even in places where it really shouldn't be an issue. It's even more noticeable if you play Mechanist for a bit before trying Untamed, the specs sort of work on the same concept but the Mechanist's bot can handle things the Untamed pet can't even dream of. 

[Shagie.7612]

I'm not sure having unleash swap be a revive akin to soulbeast's is really a great idea unless it's got an internal CD, but you could do something like that.

I don't think unkillable pets is a great idea (particularly for sPvP), but it's also just like, outright worse than soulbeast at that, as the intentional pet heavy elite?

Been a huge issue with it from the very start, honestly.

[Mauti.3520]

I jump in on this. I really like it.

And yes, it needs some work. Fundamental issues with Core Ranger itself and the Elite Spec in particular. Nonetheless i thoroughly enjoy it

[thaniretouni.4762]

I like the idea of the unleashed power and the hammer as a weapon, but I really dislike the implementation. Hammer, like in most classes feels so slow and low dmg (ofc i dont include revenant). Traits are a bit weird and dont offer much. I mean I would trade some of them for core traits

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

I like the idea of the unleashed power and the hammer as a weapon, but I really dislike the implementation. Hammer, like in most classes feels so slow and low dmg (ofc i dont include revenant). Traits are a bit weird and dont offer much. I mean I would trade some of them for core traits

Low dmg? In PvP with demolisher stats I was able to reach 3-4k dmg hits, how is that low dmg?  that's great damage for a hammer, so far Untamed hammer is the best version of the hammer in the whole game and as somebody who uses warrior, guardian ..and now ele hammer I can confirm

[anduriell.6280]

38 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Low dmg? In PvP with demolisher stats I was able to reach 3-4k dmg hits, how is that low dmg?  that's great damage for a hammer, so far Untamed hammer is the best version of the hammer in the whole game and as somebody who uses warrior, guardian ..and now ele hammer I can confirm

3-4k  in hammer #5 on unleash mode on a CC'ed target is not great. Just so you know....... Hammer is very weird, in range, in cleave in the skills and the dual aspect does not make it better. 

[kharmin.7683]

As a ranger main, I was really disappointed in the forum's cry for the (IMO) stupid bunny thumper.  I was even more disappointed when the untamed released in beta with a hammer.  Didn't like it.  Still don't.

But... I started EoD with the untamed as I always start expansions with my main and the newest elite build.  However, I ditched the hammer and have been using Sw/D and LB as my weapons and have found my own enjoyment with this spec.  True, I may not be getting everything out of it because I'm not using the weapon designed for it, but I've found what works for me.

YMMV

[Lazze.9870]

15 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

The hammer transform still feels weird too. I wish they would make all weaponskills flippable for the sacrifice of weaponswap. But make the skills real good at controlling your target. That would be a tradeoff for the spec but we would really get something to play arround with.

Well, it would make the spec even worse and far less manageable. Especially in pvp. You either build for sustain and do nothing, or you do damage with a remorseless build and rely on stealth from LB and/or smokescale to survive + GS block. At that point dropping the hammer all together to run LB+GS as per usual is usually more effective.

Which brings the discussion over to what this spec is meant to do. Yeah, remorseless GS+LB works great with untamed and the CC traits, and the unleash pet skills adds some nice utility to it. But if that turns out to be the most effective way to play Untamed in PvP, I'm not sure if it is hitting the mark for what it was supposed to do.

[Lazze.9870]

50 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

As a ranger main, I was really disappointed in the forum's cry for the (IMO) stupid bunny thumper. 

The fact of the matter is that a bruiser-esque role that can excell in pvp/wvw teamfights is what was ranger was lacking the most. Hammer makes perfect sense for such an elite spec, bunny thumper cries or not.

Most other weapons currently unavailable to ranger hardly had the potential to fully capture that niche.

The current state of Untamed is that it can be built to do a couple of things well, but it falls short in several areas to excell in a teamfight bruiser role, both due to some of the untamed designs and some of the core ranger designs (the latter also partly being at fault for druid not being a competent support for either of those two game modes as well).

Edited March 2, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[InsaneQR.7412]

17 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Well, it would make the spec even worse and far less manageable. Especially in pvp. You either build for sustain and do nothing, or you do damage with a remorseless build and rely on stealth from LB and/or smokescale to survive + GS block. At that point dropping the hammer all together to run LB+GS as per usual is usually more effective.

Which brings the discussion over to what this spec is meant to do. Yeah, remorseless GS+LB works great with untamed and the CC traits, and the unleash pet skills adds some nice utility to it. But if that turns out to be the most effective way to play Untamed in PvP, I'm not sure if it is hitting the mark for what it was supposed to do.

Well it woudl really depend how the skills look. Atm hammer is per default a Cc weapon taht becomes very offensive. They could put this on its head and make offensive weapons defensive, singelmtarget now AoE and and vice versa. WH could regain unblockable back for Untamed, LB could become more shotgun like for Zerg gameplay, SB could gain range and more CC, Dagger could gain a shadowstep, Torch could produce linear AoE fields that blinds and Burn etc.

Generally there could be a lot tomplay with IMO but alas Anet chosa the more simplistic route and gave Hammer the two weird forms. 

Hammer be a singular form that gains best of both world nstead of a transform would be also a very good option to make untamed less convoluted (for example H5 CCs, if a target is already CCed it CCs at a lower duration but with more damage etc.).

[Lazze.9870]

4 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

Well it woudl really depend how the skills look. Atm hammer is per default a Cc weapon taht becomes very offensive. They could put this on its head and make offensive weapons defensive, singelmtarget now AoE and and vice versa. WH could regain unblockable back for Untamed, LB could become more shotgun like for Zerg gameplay, SB could gain range and more CC, Dagger could gain a shadowstep, Torch could produce linear AoE fields that blinds and Burn etc.

I blanked on "all weaponskills" actually, thought you meant specifically hammer.

Although my point still stands, you can't surive on hammer on its own without reworking other aspects of the spec to regain sustain and surviveability. And as interesting as your idea could be, I think a design that removes weaponswap for flipover skills on all weapons would make the spec even less purpose-built and overall lacking focus. IMO that's the wrong route.

[InsaneQR.7412]

16 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

I blanked on "all weaponskills" actually, thought you meant specifically hammer.

Although my point still stands, you can't surive on hammer on its own without reworking other aspects of the spec to regain sustain and surviveability. And as interesting as your idea could be, I think a design that removes weaponswap for flipover skills on all weapons would make the spec even less purpose-built and overall lacking focus. IMO that's the wrong route.

Thats an acceptable opinion. I just hope they will make the spec more streamlined and less clunky.