Stop complaning and enjoy the game, here's how

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Stop posting a video that is irrelevant for 80% of the players out there.

A map meta where you try to manpilate a map to get your top players in the same instance is the solution? 

It is not.

This game is made out of casuals, elites and everything inbetween. EVERY one of them have a right to at least have a normal chance of completing this meta without having to do Raid style builds, gear and mechanics, without having to be on top of their game 100%, without having to rely on voice comms.

Irrelevant. The meta is Raid content in open world. There is a very VALID reason the VAST MAYORITY of the game's population does not Raid.

 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

"Stop complaining about wanting to enjoy your free time, here is your recreational homework, once you complete that you'll be able to enjoy your hobby. Until then, git gud or expect to work when you are trying to relax in your off time from work."

^That's about how this reads to me.

And I've done raiding in the past (for years in another game, including leadership and trying to work out what's going wrong), so nobody can tell me about how I'm a casual who never wants to try or whatever. The fact is, people are in different places in terms of time and desires out of a game, and the ones who are as into raiding challenges as I was then are the odd ones in video games, not the norm (tho they might be the norn, hah). A lot of people justifiably want to relax after a hard day and no amount of insisting that you the odd ones are the normal ones is going to change that fact. Nor is it a permanent state of being.  I don't raid anymore and have little desire to go back into that space. A lot of people who readily tell others to git gud now are prob kids or students and will one day hit a point where they find themselves in a casual phase because of how much RL has taken over. I hope they will have the recall then to remember how they behaved and correct for it by advocating for those who just want to putter around, who are so often the target of the most immature facets of behavior in video game communities.

More like:
"Start learning to play for fun, not the reward, and the difficulty won't matter"

  

5 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Stop posting a video that is irrelevant for 80% of the players out there.

A map meta where you try to manpilate a map to get your top players in the same instance is the solution? 

It is not.

This game is made out of casuals, elites and everything inbetween. EVERY one of them have a right to at least have a normal chance of completing this meta without having to do Raid style builds, gear and mechanics, without having to be on top of their game 100%, without having to rely on voice comms.

Irrelevant. The meta is Raid content in open world. There is a very VALID reason the VAST MAYORITY of the game's population does not Raid.

 

It is a solution.  People did it with the original release of Marionette, they did it with the initial launch of the reworked Tequatl.  They still do it with Triple Trouble.  Until the general populace catches up a critical mass of players understand the mechanics and how to play them, there's going to be hard failures.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[SeTect.5918]

9 hours ago, Sevens.9452 said:

one group did it with 6mins to spare (the post is gone so i cant link it)

Woah incredible! One out of 500+ meta squads did it with 6 mins left! Most likely even an organized squad of high end pve guilds. 

Now seriously. I did this meta and I got my turtle. This meta is not fine as it is. We had less than 10 seconds left. 

Its frustrating if it has to do with unlocking a mount which so many people were hyped about. I can totally understand if people are not happy about it. Also its the longest meta if i think correctly which makes it even more frustrating to lose. U just killed like 3h of ur day for losing a meta, would u be happy?

Me not. 

The fail rate of this meta is very high, even tho it sinked after last update i think, and its also the longest meta. I think its obvious that this paired together is very bad. 

Edit: After 1 week of eod, lots of squads are asking for LI for this meta and imo this is not where it should move to. You shouldn't need LI to join squads for open world metas. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[wayneericgouin.9371]

If anything this video and your incessant posts about it prove that the meta is an issue. You can't see that of course. You're actually helping the argument of those who want it nerfed.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Woah incredible! One out of 500+ meta squads did it with 6 mins left! Most likely even an organized squad of high end pve guilds. 

Now seriously. I did this meta and I got my turtle. This meta is not fine as it is. We had less than 10 seconds left. 

Its frustrating if it has to do with unlocking a mount which so many people were hyped about. I can totally understand if people are not happy about it. Also its the longest meta if i think correctly which makes it even more frustrating to lose. U just killed like 3h of ur day for losing a meta, would u be happy?

Me not. 

The fail rate of this meta is very high, even tho it sinked after last update i think, and its also the longest meta. I think its obvious that this paired together is very bad. 

I can get behind the event being too long for the difficulty.  Even HoT had scaling reward tiers for how well the map did the meta and HoT metas were pretty balls-to-the-walls difficult at their launch with rather tight timers and requirements, but individuals still got rewards for their efforts.  Not as much as successfully beating it, mind you, but definitely a portion of the rewards.  Other difficult events only had about a 15 to 30 minute timer (Triple Trouble, Tequatl, Marionette) so failing them wasn't such a chore.

However, currently, we as players don't know is how many meta events succeeded calmly without anyone really celebrating outside of the map.  I see a ton of turtles about already whenever I'm doing my core tyria map metas, so I can't help but wonder what exactly the issue is beyond just the time it takes to push through the meta.
 

[Labjax.2465]

18 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

More like:
"Start learning to play for fun, not the reward, and the difficulty won't matter"

I'm confused, is this supposed to be taking OP's side? How is watching a video essay guide on how to take on a boss playing "for fun" and "the difficulty won't matter"?

[Doo Lally.8594]

Just out of another DE with a fully organized group commanded by Scythe - we started 2 hrs before, every single build was checked in and adjusted.

 

We pre-buffed, got all the map buffs (offensive/defensive), full food and were in discord.

 

Each stage called out and executed.  Strode through the side events like a hot knife through butter.

 

Got to 3% due to rng. Another 50 folks angry, disgruntled, close to quitting.

 

Utterly demotivating. Completely the opposite of a good nights gaming.

 

I'm going to ignore this now until it's adjusted for the good of my mental health.

 

 

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I can get behind the event being too long for the difficulty.  Even HoT had scaling reward tiers for how well the map did the meta and HoT metas were pretty balls-to-the-walls difficult at their launch with rather tight timers and requirements, but individuals still got rewards for their efforts.  Not as much as successfully beating it, mind you, but definitely a portion of the rewards.  Other difficult events only had about a 15 to 30 minute timer (Triple Trouble, Tequatl, Marionette) so failing them wasn't such a chore.

However, currently, we as players don't know is how many meta events succeeded calmly without anyone really celebrating outside of the map.  I see a ton of turtles about already whenever I'm doing my core tyria map metas, so I can't help but wonder what exactly the issue is beyond just the time it takes to push through the meta.
 

The time is a major issue.  It's not like you can just pop in and have a go on a timer like you can with the HoT metas.  This means for normal players it's going to be awhile before they get enough practice in and start increasing the completion rates for this event.  It would be different if you didn't have to spend a 1hr+ preparing the map before you begin the approach.  But unless you get lucky and are able to join a map in progress, you have to plan on blocking out 2 hours of time to get a full attempt in. 

That's really way too much and I wish ANet would rethink the way they've been designing events lately.  DWC is obnoxious for the same reason.  If you want to do north, you first have to do south unless you're lucky enough to get in on a map in progress.  What happened to respecting your time?

 

[Shiyo.3578]

Why aren't you as good as this guy? Doing 0 dps, being passively dead, and running in circles the entire time? He clearly deserved his win!!

 

[Zephire.8049]

4 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

More like:
"Start learning to play for fun, not the reward, and the difficulty won't matter"

People know how to play for fun. You may find challenges like this fun but you =/= everyone else and you're assuming people complaining about the meta only want the turtle. A turtle that was made to be one of the main selling points for the expansion with Anet stating that it will be on par with the beetle in terms of difficulty to get, I might add.

Spending 20+ hours on something with zero success is not fun for everyone and there are other hobbies and video games that do challenge in a much better way for people who do want a challenge at something.

And so what if people just want the turtle? They bought the game the same as everyone else in the meta and were severely mislead about access to said turtle. Them wanting the turtle doesn't magically negate other people enjoying the meta for other reasons.

If you want challenging content, go do fractals, raids, CMs, or PvP. There are options for you to have fun in the game. People who want chill content largely just have open world content and were blindsided by a non-consensual raid that's required for open world achievements, a PvE mount, and canonically takes place before the final story mission and Anet intended people to complete this meta before finishing the story.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

31 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

The time is a major issue.  It's not like you can just pop in and have a go on a timer like you can with the HoT metas.  This means for normal players it's going to be awhile before they get enough practice in and start increasing the completion rates for this event.  It would be different if you didn't have to spend a 1hr+ preparing the map before you begin the approach.  But unless you get lucky and are able to join a map in progress, you have to plan on blocking out 2 hours of time to get a full attempt in. 

That's really way too much and I wish ANet would rethink the way they've been designing events lately.  DWC is obnoxious for the same reason.  If you want to do north, you first have to do south unless you're lucky enough to get in on a map in progress.  What happened to respecting your time?

 

This sounds like dragon's stand, but somehow worse, which, honestly, is par for the course with how consistent ANet  is with past content that has similar requirements/mechanics.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 minutes ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Spending 20+ hours on something with zero success is not fun for everyone and there are other hobbies and video games that do challenge in a much better way for people who do want a challenge at something.

And so what if people just want the turtle? They bought the game the same as everyone else in the meta and were severely mislead about access to said turtle. Them wanting the turtle doesn't magically negate other people enjoying the meta for other reasons.

Well first, this is only 2 hours, from what has been said here, so, dunno where you're getting 20 hours from.  20 hours also isn't really a grind in any game at all,  either.  A failed attempt on Dragon's End doesn't really stop players from going out to play other content either.  There's also other games that give easier challenges for those who want them too.  You've not really made a point here.

[Zephire.8049]

11 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Well first, this is only 2 hours, from what has been said here, so, dunno where you're getting 20 hours from.  20 hours also isn't really a grind in any game at all,  either.  A failed attempt on Dragon's End doesn't really stop players from going out to play other content either.  There's also other games that give easier challenges for those who want them too.  You've not really made a point here.

20 hours = ~10 attempts.

It's only 2 hours if you win on your first attempt.

And yes, it does stop people from doing content as it is required for multiple achievements and the advertised mount.

And once again you're assuming you know what others like and do so you can put everyone in a box (in this quote specifically, that people only play GW2 and nothing else and don't know other games exist) that fits the view you want to have.

GW2 was billed as a casual MMO for 9 years, over 9 years if you include the pre-release hype and info so if anyone should seek out games that fit their challenge level, it's people who want challenging MMOs because this game as a whole was not made for them. Certain parts, yes, but open world has always been about being chill and friendly and every time Anet tries to change it, there's a spike in complaints and Anet either nerfs it or it becomes dead/near dead content as soon as people can get away from it because not all people who enjoy open world PvE—especially solo open world PvE—want to deal with raids, elitists, have to run meta builds, use external programs, etc.

[AliamRationem.5172]

58 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

This sounds like dragon's stand, but somehow worse, which, honestly, is par for the course with how consistent ANet  is with past content that has similar requirements/mechanics.

No.  It's like if Dragon's stand had a bunch of mapwide pre events, then started a 30 minute timer, and then started Dragon's Stand.

[Gorem.8104]

18 hours ago, Sevens.9452 said:

 

oh and people seem to love complaining about rng:

one group did it with 6mins to spare (the post is gone so i cant link it)

and based on this analysis, rng only accounts for 3-5mins, so stop blaming rng, the meta's fine. and teapot is clearning the meta regularly at the moment

2nd oh before people go there, teapot already said: "We are on the case! But you didn't pay for the mount, you paid for the ability to unlock the mount!" (see comments section https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOm-BGR1ka0)

 

Ya know, the only thing I can see this vid doing for Teapot is costing him potential viewers as people leave and just stop watching GW2 content entirely. Teapot's group is the 1% of the 1%, they don't have the right really to say "oh this is actually easy guyz" as they request LI and gatekeep and pay people to get off maps. The Meta has RNG, there's no "complaining" about it, there is vids on this forums, 5 vids of this same fight, and EVERY time the boss is different. Doesn't matter on dps. The boss is different. 

 

If Anet truly wants this open meta to be a raid boss, just come out and say it Anet, so the 99% can leave. 

[Pretty Pixie.8603]

11 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Yeah, fun is generally derived from challenges.  If a game has the same level of  challenge throughout, where's the fun or incentive to even play the new content outside of shiny rewards?

Most games don't stay the same difficulty from start to finish.  They teach the player the mechanics expected from them either through inorganic tutorial messages or organically through gameplay.  Generally, humans are pretty  ood at picking up what games lay down, but GW2's playerbase seems adamant in wanting something as easy as a mobile experience for the open world.

 

Most games aren't MMOs catering to a broad audience. Most games have difficulty settings. MMOs have always catered to the lowest common denominator, from difficulty to hardware. It's what's most profitable. There is nothing gained by excluding casual players. 

[MechanicalMind.9126]

Honestly, they just need to move the turtle to something else XD that would solve all of this lol.

Edited March 8, 2022 by MechanicalMind.9126

[Mrs Lana.2506]

2 hours ago, MechanicalMind.9126 said:

Honestly, they just need to move the turtle to something else XD that would solve all of this lol.

No, as someone pointed out in another thread, all that would do would kill Dragon's End completely. The only reason people are doing it is for the turtle, and possibly achievements. If the turtle was removed it would die within a year.

[Gibson.4036]

14 hours ago, Miss Lana.5276 said:

No, as someone pointed out in another thread, all that would do would kill Dragon's End completely. The only reason people are doing it is for the turtle, and possibly achievements. If the turtle was removed it would die within a year.

Which is why they should remove the turtle from it, add rewards that drop along the completion of it instead of at the end, and make sure the rewards at the end are at least as good as the most profitable metas already in the game.

If the only reason people have to do it is a one-time reward, it will die quickly anyway.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Stelawrat.6589]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:33 AM, Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

Who is he clearing it with? Is he doing it with a random assortment of players, both vets and new and some who aren’t paying attention to instructions or is he doing it with a group that follow him around and probably have the best gear and builds? 

I bet they're ensuring they're on an empty map as well so... optimal for them yes, but normal for everyone else, on any given day, not likely. 

[Stelawrat.6589]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:47 AM, Erise.5614 said:

I cleared it with a commander from their community. They do understand how to beat it but it takes a lot more than just following these steps. Which are already pretty hardcore.

Our completion was incredibly tight. <1 minute. Even though we were all on discord, they paid people to leave the map. The full thing.

A friend tried to do the same and they even failed before making it the second time.

If this level of organization doesn't even make it consistent it's not in a good state. 

"...they paid people to leave the map."

Let that sink in. If that isn't a huge red flag, then I give up. 

Can you imagine a new player, or even a returning player being messaged to leave the map & oh btw, here's some gold...

Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot ArenaNet. Now your own players are doing that for you as well. 

Incredibly sad. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

12 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

20 hours = ~10 attempts.

It's only 2 hours if you win on your first attempt.

And yes, it does stop people from doing content as it is required for multiple achievements and the advertised mount.

And once again you're assuming you know what others like and do so you can put everyone in a box (in this quote specifically, that people only play GW2 and nothing else and don't know other games exist) that fits the view you want to have.

GW2 was billed as a casual MMO for 9 years, over 9 years if you include the pre-release hype and info so if anyone should seek out games that fit their challenge level, it's people who want challenging MMOs because this game as a whole was not made for them. Certain parts, yes, but open world has always been about being chill and friendly and every time Anet tries to change it, there's a spike in complaints and Anet either nerfs it or it becomes dead/near dead content as soon as people can get away from it because not all people who enjoy open world PvE—especially solo open world PvE—want to deal with raids, elitists, have to run meta builds, use external programs, etc.

Oh man, 10 attempts.  If you can't somehow get into a  map that wins in 10 attempts, you're probably doing something wrong with finding organized maps.  This was t he same with tequatl and triple trouble even marionette.

You, just like everyone else here, paid for the opportunity to play and unlock the content. Stop acting entitled to getting something basically a week after the content launches. 

And once more, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here.  If you don't like the new meta, go play something else as there's a ton of content that's pretty easy to do, or improve your personal skill and wait.  You can also just enjoy playing the game, success or not, but hey, it's  not f air there's a shiny  in the game that is in an open world meta that requires team coordination.  The content is literally only about a week old.  There's not enough players who know the mechanics yet.  I'd say  calling for nerfs now is too soon.  Give it a few months when a critical mass of players know the mechanics to determine if it's still 'too  difficult'

Also GW2 was never billed as a casual MMO.  It was an MMO that respects your time.  This nonsense of it being 'casual' is stupid nonsense based on a misinterpretation of the manifesto. But also, it's possible for casual games to have some semblance of challenge, mechanics and obstacles that require players to push more than one button and actually have their brain on.

[Stelawrat.6589]

21 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I mean, the whole point is to improve at what you do, but I suppose GW2 players are the type that'd hit a wall and give up instead of trying to overcome it.

I understand that you're being sarcastic, but you only have to scan a few threads on this topic to know that dozens of experienced players are having problems with reason, repeatedly, completing this. 

It's not a question of giving up, unless you count trying 20+ times without success, ~ 40 hours down the drain, as giving up. 

EDIT: Also, @Sir Alymer.3406 have you successfully completed this meta & if so, can you please describe the conditions, make up of the group, gear etc. You know the routine. Thanks. o/ 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Stelawrat.6589

[DragonMoon.6098]

All I see is "git gud" in more words. That's not possible for a lot of players. Players with disabilities. Players with lives and responsibilities outside of being able to devote hours upon hours of practice in "gitting gud". Not everybody raids. Not everybody has the coordination to raid. Not everybody wants to raid. Not everybody wants to min/max. 

The game needs to cater to as many player types as possible, and for 10 years, GW2 has allowed for player types across the full spectrum. But all of a sudden, no...not with this meta line. Sorry, if you aren't a devoted raider or "git gudder", you're all of a sudden denied access. People paid for the expansion with the expectation that they would be able to obtain the mount advertised within. But for a large population of players, that is not possible with the current state of affairs. I enjoy meta questing and helping people with bounty trains and hero points, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to go "git gud" and provide raid experience proof just to join a group and be abused by elitist gatekeepers. 

I've always spoken to others about how this community puts others to shame, where I've left games due to toxicity reining supreme. Now I'm not so sure, because there is a heck of a lot of toxicity stinking up the joint as of late. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 minutes ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

All I see is "git gud" in more words. That's not possible for a lot of players. Players with disabilities. Players with lives and responsibilities outside of being able to devote hours upon hours of practice in "gitting gud". Not everybody raids. Not everybody has the coordination to raid. Not everybody wants to raid. Not everybody wants to min/max.

Hey, I have two out of three of those and I've managed to get better after playing this game for a few years. 🤔 But my philosophy is; Don't expect hard carries anywhere in team content.  Team content includes group events. 
 

Quote

Not everybody wants to min/max.

With the advent of build templates, there's basically zero reason for a player to have a build they enjoy playing, and one they swap to for group content.  Even without the necessary attributes, being able to just give the usual damage boons is huge in open world content.  This isn't min/maxing, this is playing like you're part of a team.