Vindicator being released in this state is disrespectful to the PvP community

[Shiyo.3578]

I went on beta, tested against my friend on vindicator for two minutes and IMMEREDIATTELY realized the dodge barrier + heal was overtuned.

You did not test your elite specs for even a second in PvP. Now the PvP community has to suffer for 6 months playing against a blatantly overtuned part of a spec.

That is extremely disrespectful of ALL PvP / WvW players time and unacceptable.

Just abandon the mode entirely and admit you will no longer support it.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[Newholiday.8103]

Feels bad to get outhealed by a vindicator running berserker stats while on my support tempest.

[Curennos.9307]

It's understandable when a change would be more mechanical in nature, but it's hard to forgive and forget when impactful changes are literally 'change this number'.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Didnt they nerf the healing and barrier in pve after the beta? Pvp might as well not exist to them.

[coro.3176]

What is with the devs' reluctance to make quick balance fixes?

If they make a change and it's too heavy-handed, it's not like they can't re-adjust the next week, or even the next day! But no, they act as if they can only do one balance patch every 6 months to 2 years, and are only allowed to touch a few traits/skills per class.

Edited March 10, 2022 by coro.3176

[Shiyo.3578]

1 hour ago, Curennos.9307 said:

It's understandable when a change would be more mechanical in nature, but it's hard to forgive and forget when impactful changes are literally 'change this number'.

Yeah, assuming their code is in C++ it's just something like:

If (ZoneType == PvP)
{

power = power * 0.85;

}

Changing numbers should take 5 minutes max, not require 6 months.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[Kuya.6495]

The gs5 doing enormous damage was remarked on in the last beta too and the fact that it wasn't patched already shows they were really rushing to release the expansion in February. In fact we didn't even get a patch notes for the changes they made from the last beta to release probably because they didn't have much to show. And if you play pve you can tell from all the bugs and the fact they released on a Monday that they have a lot of delays. 

 

I honestly would not expect a balance patch to address concerns with the new elite specs until April  or may at best. They got their hands full with just pve right now. 

[FarmBotXD.1430]

IB4 rev mains : just interrupt the dodge bro.
just CC us bro, it counters rev bro.

[grx.8714]

sPvP is no longer a competitive gamemode anyway. There are no people playing, they are all in PvE now since it was a PvE release.

 

I have my own account since 2 months more or less and i got already 3 armor legendary pieces in sPvP. 

So who cares, I am not playing vindi neither harbi because you can abuse them now, but once they get nerfed you will be so bad at the game because you are used to play a carrying kitten.

So let them play it and farm them hardcore once it gets nerfed even if it's in 6 months, worse for them.

They don't play sPvP, so don't expect good balance in this gamemode, they called datas and crybabes posts and forums and this tells you everything.

[chokela.4823]

Rev are counterable as usual, chain cc & weak to immo

 

Yesterday it was full of pvpers I did not see this much people (out of mat evenings) for a while

 

All specs are playable and its really a nice expansion, some balance there and this would be better for sure but cmmon....

 

What about starting by using ur brain???

[GuriGashi.5617]

Nothing to do with Vindicator, but by looking at the new specs, I am pretty sure that Anet tested them on a bunch of golems and called it a day

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, chokela.4823 said:

Rev are counterable as usual, chain cc & weak to immo

Vindicator is absolutely not weak to CC and it's actually one of the classes least affected by immob.
They don't care about immob because it doesn't prevent their evade from occurring at all (so... why would immob even be a problem for them?), then shiro stunbreak removes immob anyway, add some tree song (5 cleanse on no cd)\sigil of cleansing\barrier and what not, immob in particular and combi bombs in general are not a problem.
A vindicator can facetank several condi bombs in a row without any big side effect.
About CC chain, GS block will prevent CC chain from occurring as it has a very low cd, and with f2 on such a low cd you can just chain some 12k in healing + barrier. Even if you facetank multiple CC in a row, this is just some 27k HP on heavy armor you need to remove (3k healing + 3k barrier on first dodge; 3k healing + 3k barrier on second dodge, 15k HP baseline, that without counting any further protection or healing).

CC is even less effective than it is against other specs.
We're not talking about near-immunity like rangers, but vindicators still have very good protections against stun if they just manage their energy sanely. They get access to actually good stability, both on jalis (pulsing stab with long weakness) and the stunbreak on alliance stance (with a mesmer around you can easily get 3/4 stacks of stab); that, with the asinine levels of blocks\evades they get (1.5s evade on sword\sword; 2s block on gs; 1s evade and 2s block on staff; shiro stunbreak is an evade; their normal dodge has a longer duration than normal) makes it very hard to find any opening.

If hammers are on, that alone can suck up all of your damage even if you manage to land a stun, as you partially negate the damage, you partially recover health as the hammers keep absorbing ... all in all, even if you manage to stun a hammering rev, damage is mitigated so much they can just dodge after the stun and forget anything happened at all. We're talking about weaver levels of resustain, but with heavy armor on top and on zerker amulet, whereas weavers have to run avatar at the very least.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Zekent.3652]

1 hour ago, chokela.4823 said:

Rev are counterable as usual, chain cc & weak to immo

 

Yesterday it was full of pvpers I did not see this much people (out of mat evenings) for a while

 

All specs are playable and its really a nice expansion, some balance there and this would be better for sure but cmmon....

 

What about starting by using ur brain???

This is one of the most delusional comments that i've ever read about this topic. Rev is busted, get rid of your bias.

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

I'd take vindicator meta over scourge meta any day

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

13 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

What is with the devs' reluctance to make quick balance fixes?

If they make a change and it's too heavy-handed, it's not like they can't re-adjust the next week, or even the next day! But no, they act as if they can only do one balance patch every 6 months to 2 years, and are only allowed to touch a few traits/skills per class.

Imo its man hours. Anet does not want to put people on onto pvp development. Plan and simple. Development companies have a in-house road map set up for months with workflow managament for their employees. Their not allowed to deviate from their assigned job/workflow. This creates neglected areas in projects such as pvp. But pvp has also never had any thing more attention then a 2 year balance. If they dont care you do any of you?

 

Or i cohld be wrong and im just pissed at the lack of pvp balance. Feb2020 meta change is to long ago. And no adjustment for the new specs on a timely manor just dissapoints me.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Avatar.3568]

1 hour ago, Nimbus Nomad.1237 said:

I'd take vindicator meta over scourge meta any day

 

You say that now, but scourge was mostly tanky only with aids aoes, vindicator is a roamer, healer and bunker combined in one spec. 

[chokela.4823]

There are main mesm who try to justify their lack of introspection and rev mains who teach u how to counter.

 

Rev have always been very vulnerable to cc chain and immo. Try it u will see.

 

Ah and if u dont have a dardevil or new war ofc how would u open up a chain cc??? 

 

U can even rupt their mid dodge mesmer is the most potent conter even if people cant see it yet just bcse of there perfectly well timed cc they are the only ones to have.

 

So team up with a dardevil or a war and practice the TEAMPLAY.

[Newholiday.8103]

4 hours ago, chokela.4823 said:

There are main mesm who try to justify their lack of introspection and rev mains who teach u how to counter.

 

Rev have always been very vulnerable to cc chain and immo. Try it u will see.

 

Ah and if u dont have a dardevil or new war ofc how would u open up a chain cc??? 

 

U can even rupt their mid dodge mesmer is the most potent conter even if people cant see it yet just bcse of there perfectly well timed cc they are the only ones to have.

 

So team up with a dardevil or a war and practice the TEAMPLAY.

 

My man, as I stated in my above post, vindicators running beserker stats are outhealing me on my support tempest build.  I am at plat 1 level.

 

I am 'just dodging' literally constantly when fighting vindicators, because otherwise I will be KO'd in 2-3 hits.  Eventually, I run out of my 'just dodge' tools.

 

On top of that, my entire weapon kit is mainly cc.  It doesn't help when vindicators constantly teleport to me.

 

Meanwhile, I'm hitting like a wet noodle (~800 per hit on my auto-attacks).  The vindicator just face-tanks all my damage, while having better sustain than I do on my support tempest. 

 

I would absolutely love if I could hit between 4-10k every few seconds on my support tempest, so vindicators can get a taste of 'just dodging'.  'Lack of introspection'....lol.

Edited March 11, 2022 by thepolishman.2348

[Scoobaniec.9561]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:03 AM, Shiyo.3578 said:

Yeah, assuming their code is in C++ it's just something like:

If (ZoneType == PvP)
{

power = power * 0.85;

}

Changing numbers should take 5 minutes max, not require 6 months.

No matter what language they wrote gw2 in the result is basically the same. Just change value in existing code. But nah if they get their hands on something they nuke it instead of doing small adjustment and leave it trash for well.. how long 300icd traits were around already?

 

Does the upper management dont understand they lose money bc of the guys in charge of class balance/design? Bc i fail to understand why they still hold the job for years here honestly speaking. Its not even a pvp thing in itself.

[Shiyo.3578]

7 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Does the upper management dont understand they lose money bc of the guys in charge of class balance/design? Bc i fail to understand why they still hold the job for years here honestly speaking. Its not even a pvp thing in itself.

They ruined every game mode pre-EoD. No idea why they are allowed to still work on classes.

[chokela.4823]

Vindi are juste immune to braindea spamm fiesta aoe

 

Coordination required in a team seems to much to face for 90% gw2 pvp community ZzzzZ

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Vindicator is stacked in every way, its not just the dodge and GS 5. Alliance utility is insanely strong.

[frareanselm.1925]

What is disrespectful is that it wont be fixed soon. Remember how long was overtuned the 2 dodge mirage until the nerf came?

[Bale.3851]

15 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

They ruined every game mode pre-EoD. No idea why they are allowed to still work on classes.

 

Agreed. They dont play their own game.

[Curennos.9307]

Starting to see more vindicators. They slow any fight they're in to a kitten crawl. It's disgustingly uninteresting to fight against, or even with. I don't have to worry about cleansing my allies or even healing/barrier-ing them as a specter, they take care of basically everything just by existing. Add a guardian into the mix and midfights are basically who falls asleep first.