Treat Condi like CC, Nerf Baseline Damage

[Yerlock.4678]

Twilight Combo has baseline 477 dmg and 183 respectively. On top of that- poison, three stacks of torment and chill. Why give Condi so many resources and make an ez mode for pvp??

 

Treat condi like CC, make the baseline dmg hit like noodle then in sustained fights the DoT's add up to do more dps. This makes tanky comps in sustained fights like necro the viable option for condi bombs. As it stands teef/necro hybrid gets the best of both worlds.

 

If this makes condi too weak then simply tack on another virus to complement the sorcery. As it stands the meta is still Elden Ring Mode for respectable players who have signed the Non Proliferation Treaty. 

 

As it stands our condi clears get rid of both damaging and non damaging condi's alike. This is already making condi annoying to deal with. At least Nuke the baseline damage on these skills so we can focus clearing the rabies from ourselves.

 

On top of that, unfortunately post nerf Resistance is futile. Bring a resurgence to Resistance to enhance negation against cc coni's like weakness- the most ez mode condi of them all against power builds. We can only cleanse so much condi as it stands. 

 

tldr; delete necro

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

No. Condi is fine atm, especially with torment reworks being as they are.

Warrior being bad/neglected is no excuse to rework condition application further.  They need to bring warrior outside of bladesworn up to the rest of the game's level instead of building condis around us when there's already several classes that can instamitigate them.  Imagine how busted vindi/prot holo/guard/ele would be if condis needed to ramp up harder than they do.

Leave specter and harbinger  where they are, the difficulty you're experiencing isnt because they're uniquely busted, it's because the class you're fighting them with is uniquely handicapped.

I would suggest this instead.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

imo leave condis the way they are...  If anything Weakness needs to be looked at.

[The Boz.2038]

A new thread that bemoans condi? Must be a day that ends in "y".

[Fueki.4753]

While conditions definitely are over-tuned, I doubt Arenanet is going to change anything about that.

I'd rather have Arenanet actually bring power damage up to par with conditions.

If power needs three attributes to work in most cases, it should at least be equally as viable to the vast majority of players as conditions (which only needs one attribute) are.

[Downstate.4697]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

imo leave condis the way they are...  If anything Weakness needs to be looked at.

Weakness is the only counter to the power meta

[Enduronex.4865]

10 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

No. Condi is fine atm, especially with torment reworks being as they are.

Warrior being bad/neglected is no excuse to rework condition application further.  They need to bring warrior outside of bladesworn up to the rest of the game's level instead of building condis around us when there's already several classes that can instamitigate them.  Imagine how busted vindi/prot holo/guard/ele would be if condis needed to ramp up harder than they do.

Leave specter and harbinger  where they are, the difficulty you're experiencing isnt because they're uniquely busted, it's because the class you're fighting them with is uniquely handicapped.

I would suggest this instead.

 

Condi isn't "fine" when you can be bursted down in one second SOLELY from condis from one player.  Conditions were meant to be 

"over time" damage and a burst spike is not "over time."  Burn multipliers need to be reduced and resistance needs to null the poison healing power reduction, if not the damage.  Also, some classes just shouldn't be able to burst condis all at once.

[Zyreva.1078]

20 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

 

Condi isn't "fine" when you can be bursted down in one second SOLELY from condis from one player.  Conditions were meant to be 

"over time" damage and a burst spike is not "over time."  Burn multipliers need to be reduced and resistance needs to null the poison healing power reduction, if not the damage.  Also, some classes just shouldn't be able to burst condis all at once.

Can you please post that infamous condi build that can deal 15k+ dmg in one second with only condis? Players keep mentioning it, but nobody seems to be able to actually tell, what build it is. I wonder why ...

[Enduronex.4865]

20 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Can you please post that infamous condi build that can deal 15k+ dmg in one second with only condis? Players keep mentioning it, but nobody seems to be able to actually tell, what build it is. I wonder why ...

Has you even played PvP lately?  Harbinger, bub.  Harbinger.  And virtuoso to some extent.

 

On the other side of that coin are builds with condis that last TOO LONG.  Rangers, mesmers, deadeyes, NECROS, some pistol engi builds, some renegade builds definitely are on the side of the coin with condis that last too long.  I'm talkin 10+ seconds of non-stop poison, multiple applications of immobilization for 3+ seconds, torment that lasts 7+ seconds, etc.  Yet someone mortar kit's blind fields was considered too strong and had to be nerfed.  SMH this community doesn't understand balance and it shows.

[Zyreva.1078]

14 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

Has you even played PvP lately?  Harbinger, bub.  Harbinger.  And virtuoso to some extent.

Are you confusing power and condi harbinger by chance? Power harbinger has a lot of burst for sure, but condi? There is no way for harbinger to stack 10k+ condi ticks in one sec. That would require like 15+ stacks of burn or 50+ stacks of bleeding/torment/poison on a build with maxed out condi dmg and 25 stacks of might and blight. And those condis would still have to tick at least twice to kill even the glassiest builds . And vs virtuoso you'd have to tank their telegraphed F2 and then spam skills to suicide to confusion. Seems like a l2p issue tbh.

Quote

SMH this community doesn't understand balance and it shows.

Indeed ...

Edited April 13, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

 

21 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

  And virtuoso

*squint*

Say you got hit by bladesong sorrow then pressed buttons without saying you got hit by bladesong sorrow then pressed buttons challenge?

Quote

Has you even played PvP lately?  Harbinger, bub.  Harbinger. 

How is that doing 15k damage in 1 second?

The only thing I agree with in your statements above is

Quote

Resistance needs to null the poison healing power reduction, if not the damage.

That. That is absolutely true.

But other than that nah. Condi builds can be annoying but not the point that they need a structural rework. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[coro.3176]

32 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

Has you even played PvP lately?  Harbinger, bub.  Harbinger.  And virtuoso to some extent.

 

On the other side of that coin are builds with condis that last TOO LONG.  Rangers, mesmers, deadeyes, NECROS, some pistol engi builds, some renegade builds definitely are on the side of the coin with condis that last too long.  I'm talkin 10+ seconds of non-stop poison, multiple applications of immobilization for 3+ seconds, torment that lasts 7+ seconds, etc.  Yet someone mortar kit's blind fields was considered too strong and had to be nerfed.  SMH this community doesn't understand balance and it shows.

Those conditions that last "too long" are actually laughably bad.

Yeah, condi engi can drop a ~20s burn on you, but it's never going to tick for 20s. It's going to be cleansed after 2s. Thus, the skill only ever hits for ~10% of it's potential damage. That's why no one uses offhand pistol. Spending a 15s cooldown to apply 2 stacks of burn that get erased instantly is a really bad deal. Also, on the off chance you don't cleanse it, that burn only ticks for half the dps of mech autoattacks, so it's not even dangerous.

The only immob that actually works is ranger's and that's *because* it reapplies. Other immobs like engi offhand pistol are very short (2s lol) and don't repeat. Players barely even notice it hitting them.

[Curennos.9307]

Fully traited (w/pistol traits) engineer pistol4 will do...14k-ish over 19 seconds or so at min range?

 

This, compared to my power harbringer, whose #2 skill immediately hits for 7-10k. A condi harbringer will only get near 10k on the same skill if the enemy stands still the entire time for almost six seconds - from the torment, anyway. Moving it's ~5k. 1200 damage from poison if you take that trait. Power damage a 2k tooltip, assuming no crits (carrion amulet, necro rune, max blight stacks, max might in gw2skills editor PLUS a tormenting weapon rune for 25% more duration).

 

I guess, let's assume the enemy is going to be moving, because of course they are. 1200 + 5k + 2k -> 8200. This is..about the average I would expect from my power harb, actually. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. Also mind this is at max blight stacks, which I have never actually done on a power harb.

 

Except the condi harbringer has to take more damage traits (power harb takes quickness trait, I took the 240 condi dmg GM just for kicks). The condi harb does:

- 25% of the damage initially (2k power dmg)

- 15% of the damage over about 2.5 seconds (1200 poison)

- 60% of the damage over 5.75 seconds. (5k torment, which WILL be less because nobody is going to invest as much as I put into the char creator to get this number)

 

Also note I took Spite traits so I could feasibly factor in might stacks. Taking curses gives more condi damage but zero might, sooo...Yeah.

 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Double post kek

Edited April 13, 2022 by CutesySylveon.8290

[CutesySylveon.8290]

3 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Weakness is the only counter to the power meta

If you ignore toughness and protection, as well as all the damage reduction traits out there. 

[Aktium.9506]

Condi is such a problem that the only builds using it among the 18 specs sitting in Meta and Great tiers are Harbinger, Core Nec and Fire Weaver.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I would like to see only one damaging condi at a time. If someone has torment on them, then someone puts burn on them then the torment should dissappear and burn is now the damaging condi, if someone places poison on you then burn dissapears and you start to take poison damage. It's a pretty easy and simple concept that doesn't make condi stacking a problem, like it is now. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Eddbopkins.2630]

2 hours ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Condi is such a problem that the only builds using it among the 18 specs sitting in Meta and Great tiers are Harbinger, Core Nec and Fire Weaver.

In any game that matters Plat or higher as well as tourneys you have harbinger core nec and fire weaver, and most times both of those on opposite teams facing each other.

[myun.6395]

7 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

In any game that matters Plat or higher as well as tourneys you have harbinger core nec and fire weaver, and most times both of those on opposite teams facing each other.

In tourneys or final at you never see harbinger played. Too easy to burst down by competent players.

In ranked you can play literally anything and do good with it.

 

Condis are strong indeed, but they are needed to keep an eye and be the counter on certain builds.

More than damaging ones, the real nasty op condis are immob, chill, weakness. Those 3 can easily revert fights.

 

I would like to see the removal of similar condis and maybe make one general.

Why burning can burst you for 40k damage in few seconds if not insta cleansed and bleeding has no extra effect and it's not? I know usually last longer, but has no extras, like poison that help reducing healing. Or why cripple exist when there is chill or slow which are 10 times stronger?

 

If anything needs to be damage nerfed it's burning, I had a 15k burning skill recap from a power willbender who killed me, and this shouldn't be a thing, a condi hitting that high when you are not even specced into condis.

The rest are fine.

[coro.3176]

19 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

If anything needs to be damage nerfed it's burning, I had a 15k burning skill recap from a power willbender who killed me, and this shouldn't be a thing, a condi hitting that high when you are not even specced into condis.

The rest are fine.

15k? Burn ticks for like ~300 per stack on wizard amulet. 15k would be like 50 stacks of burn. I'm calling BS on that.

[myun.6395]

1 minute ago, coro.3176 said:

15k? Burn ticks for like ~300 per stack on wizard amulet. 15k would be like 50 stacks of burn. I'm calling BS on that.

Wut, It was an average long fight, 1vs1. Lasted maybe 30 seconds maybe a bit more, at the end I had 15k burning damage received in the top skills, 12k was the new whirling light skill. He was on marauder amulet.

Burning is broken damage with 25 might stacks it's kitten how a power spec can dish out dude.

Why people always like this? What I gain from saying a bs? If you played the game from a while you should know how broken damage burning is, if you are defending it you are probably one of those burn kitten guardians in the matches who think they are gods.

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, myun.6395 said:

if you are defending it you are probably one of those burn kitten guardians in the matches who think they are gods.

Why are people like this is a better questions . 

Aso the top damage skills is very very misleading when it comes to conditions because of how it aggregates the condition rather than the source skill. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Sigmoid.7082

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 hour ago, myun.6395 said:

Wut, It was an average long fight, 1vs1. Lasted maybe 30 seconds maybe a bit more, at the end I had 15k burning damage received in the top skills, 12k was the new whirling light skill. He was on marauder amulet.

Burning is broken damage with 25 might stacks it's kitten how a power spec can dish out dude.

Why people always like this? What I gain from saying a bs? If you played the game from a while you should know how broken damage burning is, if you are defending it you are probably one of those burn kitten guardians in the matches who think they are gods.

So 15k burning damage over 30 seconds and it’s too strong?  That’s like 500 damage a second… 

[Sahne.6950]

10 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

I would like to see only one damaging condi at a time. If someone has torment on them, then someone puts burn on them then the torment should dissappear and burn is now the damaging condi, if someone places poison on you then burn dissapears and you start to take poison damage. It's a pretty easy and simple concept that doesn't make condi stacking a problem, like it is now. 

normally what you are saying makes sense big time..... but this....  This is a brainfart.

[The Boz.2038]

"I don't want to fit cleanses in my build, it makes me do less DPS, and DPS is fun, but condis make me do less DPS too, maybe condis should not be?"
The thread, #23872.