This game needs to rely less on players using third party websites for information.

[Shaogin.2679]

14 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

10k fully buffed is just autoattacking on a DPS oriented build.

Yeah, precisely my point.

[Ashen.2907]

19 hours ago, Timba.9421 said:

There's just no way to do some stuff without external guides.

Then how did those guides get created in the first place?

[Smart College Boy.3249]

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I just had one of those experiences where I needed to spend 10 to 15 minutes googling information because I was trying to finish a jumping puzzle and kept missing my jump by a tiny bit. After watching numerous videos that were unhelpful, I finally found out I needed more gliding mastery to do those jumps.

 

I spent over an hour thinking I just sucked at jumping. 

 

Why doesn't the game give you a skill check warning when doing those jumping puzzles? Would it be so hard for a message to flash across the screen when entering any puzzle event saying "You lack the required skills to finish this event?"

 

It doesn't even need to tell me the specific skills I lack. JUST GIVE ME A kitten WARNING so I do not waste my time on the impossible?

[leila.7962]

I kinda like the freedom the game offers for you to discover and do your own thing.. but i assume that for some people would be better if there was a flashing thing on their screen saying DO THIS NEXT or a guide telling them possibilities around that period of time that they are online.

As for learning, I don't think Anet will ever tell the player how to play their character... it was never their thing, so people always have to put some effort to learn from other people or online sources. If they were to tell a brand new player that maybe zerk gear would be a good option as a starter gear for dps, a lot of people would rage quit..

Edited May 7, 2022 by leila.7962

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

6 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

Why doesn't the game give you a skill check warning when doing those jumping puzzles? Would it be so hard for a message to flash across the screen when entering any puzzle event saying "You lack the required skills to finish this event?"

Well, it seems that warnings' and pop-ups' main goal is to be useless and annoying, the best you can get is pop-up: how to reload bazooka, how to exit instance, to spend masteries' points when you have them locked, or flashing about missing skills exactly when you're choosing them with opened skills menu, or pop-up to confirm limited buy 'are you sure to buy? as you can buy only 1 per day' ye after rethinking, better not buy any.

So, useful warning just doesn't match with those and can't be added.

[Dodgy Muppet.9082]

On 5/1/2022 at 2:55 PM, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Oh..  so it should just give you a roadmap path?  

Sure? Why not? Checking spread sheets and convoluted resource websites for virtually everything in game is pretty dumb. 

[ardhikaizecson.3697]

Good luck crafting legendary weapon without wiki as the game wont even tell you what others gifts are needed to craft what items is needed to craft those said gifts. This game is really terrible in informing everything.

[vandrefalk.6823]

Every puzzle, event, etc. the clues are all in game for players to explore and do them without need of external sites for information. You only go to google "where is the 10th skyscale egg" because you don't want to spend time exploring and searching for them. You are the one in a rush to get to the rewards, the game shouldn't come with overlays and pointers to every item. Sometimes the achievement will even give you hints about whereabouts of certain items, other times it's a scavenger hunt and you need to go searching.

And those guides on the web wouldn't exist if it weren't for players doing exactly that, and then being so kind to write guides or make TaCo markers if that's your cup of tea.

But there's nothing stopping you from relying only on your own mind and finding everything on your own, it will just take you a little more time, but isn't that part of the fun and enjoyment of a game... instead of just reading a guide to "Go here, then there, then here, then there, next do this, then that."

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Things that should be in game that currently require use of an external site:

Mystic forge recipes.

Bank and character searching.

Better achievement descriptions (we don't need a map, but the info in-game is often too obtuse for most to figure out).

Crafter tracking (it shouldn't take 20 min or an external program to figure out if you can craft something, including needing to go to the wiki to find out where to find uncraftable items needed for crafting).

Achievement schedules (you shouldn't need to leave the game to find out when X will next be daily if the schedule is fixed).

Stat names list (seriously they can't tell you in game what "settler" stats are if you don't have them in inventory? And you are supposed to search how?).

Food type (shouldn't need to leave the game to figure out which of the feasts put out is for my class).

[Ashen.2907]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:26 PM, Dodgy Muppet.9082 said:

Checking spread sheets and convoluted resource websites for virtually everything in game is pretty dumb. 

Then don't.

People completed these various activities before those resources were created.

[Ashen.2907]

22 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

Things that should be in game that currently require use of an external site:

Mystic forge recipes.

Bank and character searching.

Better achievement descriptions (we don't need a map, but the info in-game is often too obtuse for most to figure out).

Crafter tracking (it shouldn't take 20 min or an external program to figure out if you can craft something, including needing to go to the wiki to find out where to find uncraftable items needed for crafting).

Achievement schedules (you shouldn't need to leave the game to find out when X will next be daily if the schedule is fixed).

Stat names list (seriously they can't tell you in game what "settler" stats are if you don't have them in inventory? And you are supposed to search how?).

Food type (shouldn't need to leave the game to figure out which of the feasts put out is for my class).

You can search stat prefixes on the tp pretty easily. Takes less time than you would spend loading the wiki, and does not require a new window.

Not sure what you mean by bank searching because one can search through one's bank without external resources.

You dont need an external site to search food either. No food type is class specific. If you are curious about what each of the food platters currently out for general use does...try them. If the first one is too hot, try the second. If that one is too cold the third is bound to be just right. This process also takes less time than wiki.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 5/5/2022 at 9:28 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

Nowadays most software requires finding outside resources to learn it. Why would complex games be any different?

It's a difference between work and entertainment. For knowing how to use a specific software i get paid. For playing a complex game i don't get paid (and actually often need to pay for it myself).

Edited May 10, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[kettering.6823]

This is just how modern gaming is. Doesn't matter what game I'm playing these days -- GW2, FF14, Path of Exile, any number of single player RPGs -- I'm going to have at least five tabs open on the game's wiki or some other guide/walkthrough to figure something out. It's been this way for a very long time. I at least like that you can look things up in the game itself, even if it does direct you to an external wiki. 

Could it be better? Yeah, for sure. But for me personally it's a non-issue, I've just accepted it as a part of gaming lol.

Edited May 10, 2022 by kettering.6823

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

The achievements panel is pretty great, but this game is too buggy in events that it would be impossible to not need out of game help.

[Gorem.8104]

Its funny when you realise most content for EoD is the games form of "sidequests" essentially through collections or achievements, and if you don't know about them, you just gloss over like 60% of EoD. 

Honestly its been a problem for a very long time, that the best way and most efficient way of playing gw2, is using external sources. Everything is available to us, from TP history to perfectly timed farms to taco showing us in game via a mod the direct path for JP's. 
And man would that skyscale unlock been an annoying experience if that content didn't have exact locations and guides on the wiki. 

Really though, finding those "Semi hidden" things in lw3 was a terrible experience, You needed to actually look at every single nook and cranny in all of an entire map, including one of the games worst JP's (but hey, at least you can just port to the top and glide down, don't need the chest at least) but if you don't know where you are going as the hints are vague and the items on the ground are actually extremely hidden.... Man unlocking those exchangers are bad content. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

On 5/1/2022 at 6:12 PM, ASP.8093 said:

What gear should I have? [firing up gw2skills.net because otherwise I will *never* get the crit chance or condition duration numbers perfect]

It would be awesome to have a bank tab similar to Wardrobe Storage for doing build simulations. 

[Rauderi.8706]

On 5/2/2022 at 12:23 PM, ASP.8093 said:

I suspect the problem with the Skyscale eggs is that it's a boring activity so everyone just short-circuits it to get to the reward.

Truth. There's nothing engaging about needle-in-a-haystack collections where the devs get to put search targets in tee-hee-I'm-so-clever spots for the sake of keeping players from a reward. It's low-effort, high time-padding, and I have no shame in /wiki for stuff like that. 

[Holgarf.6581]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:46 PM, Aodlop.1907 said:

Where is that next Skyscale egg? I'll check on Google, then go back to the game, then back to Google again for next one.

What about this collection from a LW episode? Oh yeah, back to Google.

Oh, and when is that next big event or world boss? Guess I'll check on the third party event tracker.

 

Can't you just add a big circle on each map, and when we mouse over it, it displays a timer so we know when to go where?

You could also add a neat little list of the 5 current/upcoming big world events, world bosses or map metas to occur.

As someone who sometimes doesn't know what to do in the game, I know that'd be super useful for me.

 

Honestly I just want to play GW2 without having to close the game so much to get data elsewhere. It's a thing for every MMO I think, but more so with GW2.

 

Thoughts?

People can -enlightenedlaugh react- all they want but it's true. This game relies entirely on an official wiki page for farrrrrr too much of it's content. Some of it doesn't... but that's incredibly uncommon and it just goes to show that it could have been done but wasn't in favour of an easier, quicker approach. I'm losing the will to play the game because I spend too much of my time with the wiki page page open, various timers, collections, etc and it's just killing the vibe.

It's worrying how so few people are willing to criticise something they invest in. If a game has a badly designed aspect to it, don't encourage it because you'll keep getting that approach to game design 8, 9, 10+ years down the line or into a new release of the game. I swear if I see Guild Wars 3 with copy + pasted meta mechanics and collections requiring Firefox open, my brain will explode.

[kharmin.7683]

Far be it for players to actually spend time exploring the maps that the developers spend so much time and effort into creating.  No, it's better to check a wiki, burn through the content and then complain about there being nothing to do or maps are dead.  /sigh

[Holgarf.6581]

On 5/1/2022 at 11:04 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Didn't we have this topic before?

There isn't anything unreasonable about people providing information on how to play a game or do something in it OUTSIDE of the game ... that has been happening since Video Games were invented. It used to be manuals provided with the games themselves and 3rd parties assembling game How To's as books. Now that's transitioned to online. 

What I would be in favour of is better connections between the game and the out-of-game information. 

And nobody gets to discuss something important more than once, right? But you don't like it, so that'd be why.

This is nonsense. You're comparing bad game design with other types of games describing small mechanics in compact manuals as a defence. Outside of the MMO-world what other types of games needed constant wiki referrals because the mechanics of the game didn't adequately describe an objective or provide hints? None of that extensive stuff was ever in the tiny manuals in the CD/DVD box of games. Be realistic.

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, Holgarf.6581 said:

You're comparing bad game design with other types of games describing small mechanics in compact manuals as a defence. Outside of the MMO-world what other types of games needed constant wiki referrals because the mechanics of the game didn't adequately describe an objective or provide hints? 

No, that's unfair ... I wasn't JUST talking about compact manuals. I also mentioned player guidebooks as well. I can assure you that 'in the day' even pre-internet ... I played plenty of RPG games that required so much information, you needed to buy a book to progress in it. Even the nascent internet MMO's didn't load their games with this information ... because bandwidth and game size was actually a problem at that time. 

Maybe there are games out there that have EVERY single bit of 'how-to' and 'what-is' in them ... but they are exceptional. The in-game platform for this information is simply not ideal. I would actually argue that this information are bad game design because they break immersion. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Holgarf.6581]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I would actually argue that tutorials and information references are bad game design because they break immersion. 

I suppose that depends solely on the theme of the game. There's tutorials, hints, references and such that can be designed in a way to maintain immersion, but omitting them entirely to more-or-less force people to open a web browser and search for their mission and use wiki pages, is far more immersion breaking than spoken or text-based hints done in a thematically pleasing way.

One of the developers discussing DX11 coming out of beta mentioned the benefit of windowed fullscreen basically being fullscreen mode for DX11 on Windows 10/11, because it was beneficial to alt-tab out of the game without hitching issues unlike in exclusive fullscreen mode. That's an indirect reference to the need to frequently alt-tab out of the game to look up game mechanics and we all know why that is.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Holgarf.6581 said:

I suppose that depends solely on the theme of the game. There's tutorials, hints, references and such that can be designed in a way to maintain immersion, but omitting them entirely to more-or-less force people to open a web browser and search for their mission and use wiki pages, is far more immersion breaking than spoken or text-based hints done in a thematically pleasing way.

One of the developers discussing DX11 coming out of beta mentioned the benefit of windowed fullscreen basically being fullscreen mode for DX11 on Windows 10/11, because it was beneficial to alt-tab out of the game without hitching issues unlike in exclusive fullscreen mode. That's an indirect reference to the need to frequently alt-tab out of the game to look up game mechanics and we all know why that is.

I should be more clear ... things you need to 'practice' like dodging or some kind of keystroke to combo ... THAT can be in the game no problem. 

I'm referring more to the information outside the game we find on the wiki or the spoilers you see on Youtube.