WvW AFK Defeating Queues with Autorun

[Alveuel.8459]

Recently a lot of players have decided that waiting for a queue is beneath them and so they leave the game running and autorun in a back line area into a wall.  This causes players who want to play in that BG not to be able to get into the area due to queueing.  ArenaNet at one time patched WvW to prevent players from AFKing in spawn to "PIP down".  This is the next evolution of that requiring some sort of intervention from ArenaNet.  If not, it's possible to have a server with a guild who AFKs in the BG so that they can raid at their time causing casual players or others from getting access to those areas.

 

Code could be written so that these players don't have to be punished too hard.  Perhaps AFK in one spot for so long, even when pushing another button or action, causes you to be moved back to Open World and out of WvW areas.  Obviously someone trebbing a T3 keep may just be holding down a single button for a long period of time.  This would be allowed, however players will probably exploit this and fire siege into a wall to stay in a BG for as long as they wish.  Therefore the best way to solve this is with the participation counter...  If a player hits 0 participation for a given amount of time, they should be kicked from battleground.

 

This is becoming an epidemic on servers.  I counted more than 10 players doing this in a keep at one time this week.  People in chat were even recommending it (SBI players are terrible to play with for the record), telling players how to avoid the queues by picking a BG, getting there and auto running when they needed to AFK.  And it's not just short AFK spells.  I've logged in, logged out, then back in again more than 10 hours later and saw the same player in the same spot, still auto running into a wall.

 

Please address this issue for the good of the game.  ArenaNet already has the Mist War meters to help control this.

[josh.3847]

I think an option to help with PIP draining afk would be to allow people to instantly gain all the pips they would have as if you drained naturally, but with a downside. Your participation is set to 0 and your unable to gain pips, participation, reward track progress or WXP until twice the maximum time it would take to drain, say 30-40 minutes. 

[Creativity.3816]

What queues lmao

[Morden Kain.3489]

@Alveuel.8459 When it comes to siege, a person only gets a little bump in the time, however it take 10-15 seconds for the long range shots to hit (normally max).  As you are only getting the bump every little while, you still end up down at 0 participation until you get actual WXP from the wall going down (unless this has changed... again).  So, 0 pips can still be used in the manner you have thought about.

Also, they still do kick people for inactivity (5 mins iirc).  However, if you are doing skills, that is a way to get around said inactivity timer (I have done this in the past for a bio/pet break).  Also, apparently if you are running in place (yet to figure this one out, as the "auto run"/W-key into a corner still gets me booted).

Now, I can understand a 10-15 min break away to move around, get blood flowing, grab a drink/food, etc.  However, I am totally on board with drop kicking these people that are constantly taking a slot in map by running into a wall for days on end.  SoS has a massive abuser of the gimmick to keep themselves in EBG.  Anyone that has played with SoS knows which character/player I am talking about. 

ANet, if you are not going to fix the problem code wise, at least give us the option to report these players.  Maybe boot them from WvW if they are in the same place for more than 1 min after a report?  This would keep people from abusing the report feature, plus gives you the ability to hammer those that do.

[MedievalThings.5417]

If you hit autorun, you will still be disconnected after roughly 7-10 minutes.  The players I see running into walls, do it 24 hours a day, sometimes are there for a week straight without moving.  They are definitely in the category of botting and should be banned as such.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Ubi.4136

[ArchonWing.9480]

It's a preventive measure to stop rallybots from entering EB. AFK player > rallybots.

  

3 hours ago, Creativity.3816 said:

What queues lmao

That too.. Am in the FA/SBI combo and the only queue is usually EB, and then when you get in sometimes there's nothing happening. That's why people are afk lol. It's a t4 matchup so content is limited.

Also I have never seen any guild (anywhere) that afks delibrately. They may take 15-30 minutes prepping and putting makeup on before they leave spawn, but that's not the same thing.

Edited May 9, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Morden Kain.3489]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

They may take 15-30 minutes prepping and putting makeup on before they leave spawn, but that's not the same thing.

I chuckled at this.  Reminds me of the guild prep times in GW1 when we would do Guild stuff, and it would take 30-60m for everyone else to prep.

[Twilightzone.7452]

I was just educating people as things do come up. To be frank FA not any better, 2 months of T4 only to get linked with another server that we were some how beating in T4. They mystery of re-linking continues to be a mystery to this day.

Also is was ~20 q with jack going on, lets have our blob chase down the only group of 20 woooo so much content worth queuing for

[Caedmon.6798]

Recently ? I remember the times where sweaty tryhards put like 10 of their alt accounts in EB and let them afk spamming one skill forever on the WP so the opposition had 10 players less. Took weeks if not months of reporting them before it finally got handled.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Caedmon.6798

[Draygo.9473]

On 5/9/2022 at 8:49 AM, josh.3847 said:

I think an option to help with PIP draining afk would be to allow people to instantly gain all the pips they would have as if you drained naturally, but with a downside. Your participation is set to 0 and your unable to gain pips, participation, reward track progress or WXP until twice the maximum time it would take to drain, say 30-40 minutes. 

You can pip down in Obsidian Sanctum. Just FYI. 

[josh.3847]

2 minutes ago, Draygo.9473 said:

You can pip down in Obsidian Sanctum. Just FYI. 

That’s what I usually do, but it would be nice to shutdown my machine at night.

[rune.9572]

Why would you pip down in 2022 lmao

and yeah anet's "afk detection" is garbage, as seen by botters botting everywhere

Edited May 11, 2022 by rune.9572

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, rune.9572 said:

Why would you pip down in 2022 lmao

 

So….,  Much…..  THIS…^^^^^^^
 

 

[Capricornholio.9035]

They don't need to do anything with pips/participation for this issue specifically, especially when there are workarounds which could abuse that, like squad shared participation.

 

Just force players to move their character -- say 100 X/Y range -- to clear out the "You will be kicked off the map in XX seconds" warning.  That's a third of one dodge roll's distance, hardly breaking anyone's back or fingers... Anyone inconvenienced by having to move every 10-15 minutes is likely not playing the game mode anyways.

[Sahne.6950]

How about they just scrap this whole "flip the same camp every 10 minutes"pip-system.

And instead they put more rewards in scoring kills and capturing objectives..... you know... actually playing the game.....

you no longer get rewards over time for being in tier6 participation... but instead you get alot more rewards from scoring actual points.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

How about they just scrap this whole "flip the same camp every 10 minutes"pip-system.

And instead they put more rewards in scoring kills and capturing objectives..... you know... actually playing the game.....

Flipping camps (alone or with some other players) and flipping towers (and keeps) (with a few more players or a karma-train-blob) is not that much different as long as we have the extreme population imbalances in matchups and even at different time of day. 

I am now in a matchup (I see this pattern since a few days) where we can (at some time of day) capture nearly all objectives (even T3 keeps) and bring a few of them to T3 and then at some other time of day we don't have the player numbers and the enemy zergs are capturing our objectives (even the T3 ones) and even our own keeps on EBG and HBL were flipped constantly. The duration in which we and the enemy servers have almost the same player counts and the results of battles could be somehow (somewhat) skill-based is very short.

Both roamers flipping camps and zergs flipping towers and keeps (and killing/hunting roamers and some desperate defenders) somehow "play the game" even if you don't like how they play the game.

 

[Sahne.6950]

14 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Both roamers flipping camps and zergs flipping towers and keeps (and killing/hunting roamers and some desperate defenders) somehow "play the game" even if you don't like how they play the game.

uhmmm... that is exactly what i want them to do....  

 

right now you can get the maximum of pips with flipping the same camp over and over again, thats why you see people in spawn afking, and then only taking the spawncamp whenever it got flipped. Because there is literally no incentive to do more, when your just here for the pips.

Anyone investing more effort and flipping 2 camps in 10 minutes should be rewarded... cuz right now... both will get the same pips.

This encourages Afk-farming.

[Zok.4956]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:52 AM, Alveuel.8459 said:

Recently a lot of players have decided that waiting for a queue is beneath them and so they leave the game running and autorun in a back line area into a wall.  This causes players who want to play in that BG not to be able to get into the area due to queueing. 

(...)

This is becoming an epidemic on servers.  I counted more than 10 players doing this in a keep at one time this week. 

I saw this too, a lot, during our previous linking. Sometimes around 5-10 players, always from the same "fight"-guild,  running for hours against the wall of our keep and blocking map-slots for other players. In our actual linking I have not yet seen it, so I don't think it is an epidemic, yet.

 

On 5/9/2022 at 3:49 PM, josh.3847 said:

I think an option to help with PIP draining afk

It's not about pip draining (there is no need for this anymore), it's about AFK reserving and blocking a map slot early before queues start.

It's like those weird vacationers who put their towel on a sunbed by the pool at 6am in the morning to block it for others.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Zok.4956]

30 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

uhmmm... that is exactly what i want them to do....  

 

right now you can get the maximum of pips with flipping the same camp over and over again, thats why you see people in spawn afking, and then only taking the spawncamp whenever it got flipped. Because there is literally no incentive to do more, when your just here for the pips.

Anyone investing more effort and flipping 2 camps in 10 minutes should be rewarded... cuz right now... both will get the same pips.

This encourages Afk-farming.

Ok, then I just misunderstood you. I agree that active gameplay should be rewarded and AFKing (more or less) and camp-flipping-pip-farming should not.

However, it's still not that easy for the game to differentiate between those while not further promoting stacking. Sometimes (sure, not often, but it can happen) flipping the same camp over and over to slow down nearby objectives from upgrading is active gameplay and if you would need to flip two camps for PiPs than pip-farmers would just flip two camps.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Ok, then I just misunderstood you. I agree that active gameplay should be rewarded and AFKing (more or less) and camp-flipping-pip-farming should not.

However, it's still not that easy for the game to differentiate between those while not further promoting stacking. Sometimes (sure, not often, but it can happen) flipping the same camp over and over to slow down nearby objectives from upgrading is active gameplay and if you would need to flip two camps for PiPs than pip-farmers would just flip two camps.

 

its not about flipping 2 camps to get your maximumnumber of pips.

 

id say scrap pips and any other stuff that is timegated completly.

For example, you get skirmish tickets for everything you do. 1 for every kill, 2 for every Camp, 3 For every tower, 4 for a keep, and 5 for flipping a garri.

Whenever a objective upgrades for example from t2 to t3, everyone that took part in it will get a hefty chunk of skirmishtickets yet again to incentivize upgrading, over letting the enemys flip it to then retake it.

 

basicly turning this from " i need to flip the same camp over and over gain for 21 weeks, to farm the chests over and over again " to " i need to make 2000 kills" or "i need to flip 1000 camps" or "500 keeps". 

Then they need to adjust the skirmish tickets to a reasonable ammount, so that you dont need to farm months... and GG! we fixxed the afk problem.

Tying the rewards to actually taking objectives and scoring kills is the only way to battle the people that "afk farm".

next step: make Skirmishtickets and GoB tradeable, so that you keep the people that hate wvw and are only here for leggys out of this mode, and increase potential money/hour rewards for the people actualy enjoying the mode and playing it alot.

 

this alone would fix alot of things.

 

 

...pls hire me anet...

Edited August 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Zok.4956]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

id say scrap pips and any other stuff that is timegated completly.

For example, you get skirmish tickets for everything you do. 1 for every kill, 2 for every Camp, 3 For every tower, 4 for a keep, and 5 for flipping a garri.

Whenever a objective upgrades for example from t2 to t3, everyone that took part in it will get skirmishtickets aswell.

basicly turning this from " i need 21 weeks of farming to the last chest over and over again to get my leggys" to " i need to make 2000 kills" or "i need to flip 1000 camps" or "500 keeps". 

But this would just promote overstacking servers (without player count you can not defend and upgrade objectives) and more and more karma-trains (like they existed in EotM) in WvW because upgrading objectives takes long time and killing-capturing-karma-trains would probably be the most effective farm.

Maybe a better way for WvW would be to let the farmers go again to EotM and enable PiP-farming in EotM.

[Svarty.8019]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:03 PM, Ubi.4136 said:

If you hit autorun, you still still be disconnected after roughly 7-10 minutes.  The players I see running into walls, do it 24 hours a day, sometimes are there for a week straight without moving.  They are definitely in the category of botting and should be banned as such.

Inded, I think they've got some macro or bot that presses one button every 5 minutes or something. The software probably comes with their mouse, so it's acceptable. That's acceptable, right? Beuller?

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

its not about flipping 2 camps to get your maximumnumber of pips.

 

id say scrap pips and any other stuff that is timegated completly.

For example, you get skirmish tickets for everything you do. 1 for every kill, 2 for every Camp, 3 For every tower, 4 for a keep, and 5 for flipping a garri.

Whenever a objective upgrades for example from t2 to t3, everyone that took part in it will get a hefty chunk of skirmishtickets yet again to incentivize upgrading, over letting the enemys flip it to then retake it.

 

basicly turning this from " i need to flip the same camp over and over gain for 21 weeks, to farm the chests over and over again " to " i need to make 2000 kills" or "i need to flip 1000 camps" or "500 keeps". 

Then they need to adjust the skirmish tickets to a reasonable ammount, so that you dont need to farm months... and GG! we fixxed the afk problem.

Tying the rewards to actually taking objectives and scoring kills is the only way to battle the people that "afk farm".

next step: make Skirmishtickets and GoB tradeable, so that you keep the people that hate wvw and are only here for leggys out of this mode, and increase potential money/hour rewards for the people actualy enjoying the mode and playing it alot.

 

this alone would fix alot of things.

 

 

...pls hire me anet...

 

The only issue here was that the system was added to address karma-trains. The old system prompted groups to come in mass steam roll a map and take everything not defended for the least amount of time and effort and get the most rewards till maxed out and then logout. That then left a vacuum of players for hours on end where the side that did this would then be punished as it was short handed. This was what "WvW" complained about "PvE" players coming in for just the WvW "rewards" in the past. The PiP was created to try and even those play times out and discourage these K-Trains and to also balance rewards between those people that attacked and those that defended since you need people to do both. The older system rewarded just take, the current system still favors that but the pips also aid those defending as they may not get a kill as 1 defends against 10 or any other disproportion a defense might end up being if defenders can't rally their side in time.

Not saying the system can't be adjusted for active play and agree GoB should be tradeable. Tickets, flat no. Tickets should come from time in game as it rewards people for doing so. If you are worried about a few that come to "AFK" for tickets give them ways outside of WvW to earn their tickets for the PvE armor sets. Again would prefer that over the old school days of wild population swings as people minimized time in WvW to max rewards and then did a mass exodus for the day. 

Again the fear of the dreaded pip hunter has brought us changes that meant less people trying to fight outnumbered and less people now repairing, which means less people defending and more empty keep takes.

There are other threads on how WxP should be rewarded so will have to come back to that with some thought since this about countering AFKing versus reward changes but the topic might be blended. 

 

[Avion Blade.4869]

simple fix is to have auto-run not count as an active player, but have a program detect key or mouse click inputs within the last 15 minutes, after 15 minutes of being idle (even if auto running), the player is removed back to lobby [edit: I mean PvE or previous non WvW Location]

Edited August 29, 2022 by Avion Blade.4869

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/9/2022 at 3:45 PM, Creativity.3816 said:

What queues lmao

The zergs we smoll servers face  sometimes is a queued server with a omni blob vs some gate.

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Aeolus.3615