What if Legendary armor was earned through strike cm and rewards for raids increased massively?

[SirRocket.3516]

Let's talk in theory, because this will never happen 😁

 

You've transported to a universe where this update is coming, legendary armor will be earned through strike cms (exciting I know) and in turn the rewards for raiding were buffed extensively. 

What rewards do you think would be good enough to justify this change?

I would love to see a raiding reward track, with daily and weekly rewards to progress through, with a separate rank you can progress, maybe you can even make small progression through strikes.   

 

It would be hard to imagine really, that actual effect it would have on the game and the rewards would play a key part. I think it would have hard negative pushback at first, but if raids proved to be much more lucrative and a separate reward structure and progression was created for raiding I believe more would engage. Using raiding as instance content you tackle once you have legendary gear.  

Also I would love to see the raid golem have presets to 'simulate' boss fights found in strikes and raids. 

 

Would this doom raids? Would no one play even if raiding was the best way to earn gold in the game? 
If you raid why do you raid and if you don't why don't you raid? 
 

[Ashen.2907]

I have raided a few times because I wanted to see the content. Had some fun in the process of figuring things out as this was with a guild with a, "no guides," policy strictly enforced.

However, my work schedule makes it difficult to commit to a set time, etc to play and the time requirements for raiding made such a commitment even more difficult.

I might have been able to tweak my availability a bit to try to make it work but raiding has no rewards of interest to me. So that was that in terms of pursuing raiding for me.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Xelqypla.6817]

I find boss mechanics to be a chore.

Classic WoW's dungeons and raids were fun. Not much going on. Basically tank and spank. You could watch the fight unfold.

Can't do that anymore. Everything needs to have various game mechanics. It feels like I am fighting the game, not the boss.

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

I find boss mechanics to be a chore.

Classic WoW's dungeons and raids were fun. Not much going on. Basically tank and spank. You could watch the fight unfold.

Can't do that anymore. Everything needs to have various game mechanics. It feels like I am fighting the game, not the boss.

I must admit that mechanics that exist to be mechanics, not as a representation of a boss' logical/natural skill/abilities are odd to me. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

I don't think this would doom Raids, as i heard Strikes CM are much harder than Raids.

But as you say, better rewards would be more Gold. The possibility to Raids more than one time a week with fair rewards. I know a lot of people who raid more than one time a week to help other people or just out of fun and i don't see why these people don't deserve rewards.

 

But i don't see the the Legendary Armor in Strikes CM, as this would solve nothing. As said, Strike CM's are not that easy either for most of the community. Speaking here for "casuals". I rather which anet would put work into a nice way to get Legy armour trough OW and increase Rewards for Gamemodes like Raids, Wvw and PVP in balance.

 

I did raid for the Legy armour and to play with friends. But nowadays gw2 don't really catches me, but i had always these phases where i just strolled trough the world in offline-mode, jsut for me. Raids are fun for me, but not lucrative because my main-goal in GW2 are skins and creating charaters for pretty screenshots and other stuff and i get more gold when i do braindead OW content than Raids one or two days a week.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Xerxez.7361]

The new Strikes already give Legendary Insights for Legendary Armor. You can consider EoD Strikes to be Raid Wing 8 already.

[Lottie.5370]

23 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

I don't think this would doom Raids, as i heard Strikes CM are much harder than Raids.

But as you say, better rewards would be more Gold. The possibility to Raids more than one time a week with fair rewards. I know a lot of people who raid more than one time a week to help other people or just out of fun and i don't see why these people don't deserve rewards.

 

But i don't see the the Legendary Armor in Strikes CM, as this would solve nothing. As said, Strike CM's are not that easy either for most of the community. Speaking here for "casuals". I rather which anet would put work into a nice way to get Legy armour trough OW and increase Rewards for Gamemodes like Raids, Wvw and PVP in balance.

 

I did raid for the Legy armour and to play with friends. But nowadays gw2 don't really catches me, but i had always these phases where i just strolled trough the world in offline-mode, jsut for me. Raids are fun for me, but not lucrative because my main-goal in GW2 are skins and creating charaters for pretty screenshots and other stuff and i get more gold when i do braindead OW content than Raids one or two days a week.

 

Some raids are easier than the Strike CM, some raids are harder. I would not say the CMs are much harder than raids, it's just harder at the moment as it is new and people do not know the mechanics as well.

 

I'm someone that does at least two full raid and full strike clears a week (two accounts). I think if you can do strike CMs, you can do raids - difficulty wise. The problem is the time investment - it's very easy to join for a single strike, you can just do the daily strike each day even. For a raid, you're having to set aside a lot more time at once, especially if you're new to raiding.

 

Legendary armour from strikes would be more accessible to most, I'd imagine. I'm not necessarily advocating for it though.

Edit: because strikes aren't necessarily the most casual friendly content. They are more accessible than raids, but still exclude a large amount of the playerbase (as you can tell by the turtle strike mission requirement threads). I think if they added a new PvE legendary armour, it shouldn't be with content so similar to the raid one - strikes even give you extra Li...

Edited May 10, 2022 by Lottie.5370

[Fuchslein.8639]

18 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

Some raids are easier than the Strike CM, some raids are harder. I would not say the CMs are much harder than raids, it's just harder at the moment as it is new and people do not know the mechanics as well.

 

I'm someone that does at least two full raid and full strike clears a week (two accounts). I think if you can do strike CMs, you can do raids - difficulty wise. The problem is the time investment - it's very easy to join for a single strike, you can just do the daily strike each day even. For a raid, you're having to set aside a lot more time at once, especially if you're new to raiding.

 

Legendary armour from strikes would be more accessible to most, I'd imagine. I'm not necessarily advocating for it though.

Edit: because strikes aren't necessarily the most casual friendly content. They are more accessible than raids, but still exclude a large amount of the playerbase (as you can tell by the turtle strike mission requirement threads). I think if they added a new PvE legendary armour, it shouldn't be with content so similar to the raid one - strikes even give you extra Li...

But isn't this because Strike Cm's are new?
When raids where introduced it also was very easy to join pug's. As new raids where introduced it was very easy to find groups. But after month and month of nothing, well~.

I wonder what happens to strikes when anet decide, you know what we are bored, lets make something new AGAIN.

 

But thanks for the info about the defficulty. But netherless i don't think strike cm's should be the new way for legy armour. Correct me if i misunderstood this, but it seems that the actually strike CM is 50/50 with Raid dificulty and so, why move from raids to strikes when it is in short just more accesbale AT THE MOMENT. This would solve a problem at the moment, but not longterm. SOmething anet is, sadly very good at, handling problem shortterm uu.

And thats the point for me, people who are able to do the strike cm's in a way they would get a Legy armor, dont need this. They can just raid, because there are enough groups in the Raid-lfg, most just want you to perfom good and are not training-raids. I think, this is the biggest hurdle for most casuals. At least this is my experience with people i know.
So a thoughtful OW-armour would solve a lot of problems. But it has to be grindy and expensive, the same as the other Armour's are.

A Strike CM armor would only make the same people scream why anet wastes resources in something that most people again, can't access.

 

Of course, i'm not a game-designer, im not a dev i don't have data. This is just my personal opinion.

And eventually i'am biasd, because i hate these endless discussionen about something i really love about this game, Raids are one of the content i enjoy the most. And the fact that i read a few times that people don't try to raid because of these threads is just sad.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

I find boss mechanics to be a chore.

Classic WoW's dungeons and raids were fun. Not much going on. Basically tank and spank. You could watch the fight unfold.

Can't do that anymore. Everything needs to have various game mechanics. It feels like I am fighting the game, not the boss.

I guess you played dps then since both healer and tank have to take care of the mechanics in wow.

Healer must know when stuff happens to be ready with their big heals and tank for example must interupt and move the boss around if needed.

As a dps you just have to press buttons in the right order basicly

[Lottie.5370]

2 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

But isn't this because Strike Cm's are new?
When raids where introduced it also was very easy to join pug's. As new raids where introduced it was very easy to find groups. But after month and month of nothing, well~.

I wonder what happens to strikes when anet decide, you know what we are bored, lets make something new AGAIN.

 

But thanks for the info about the defficulty. But netherless i don't think strike cm's should be the new way for legy armour. Correct me if i misunderstood this, but it seems that the actually strike CM is 50/50 with Raid dificulty and so, why move from raids to strikes when it is in short just more accesbale AT THE MOMENT. This would solve a problem at the moment, but not longterm. SOmething anet is, sadly very good at, handling problem shortterm uu.

And thats the point for me, people who are able to do the strike cm's in a way they would get a Legy armor, dont need this. They can just raid, because there are enough groups in the Raid-lfg, most just want you to perfom good and are not training-raids. I think, this is the biggest hurdle for most casuals. At least this is my experience with people i know.
So a thoughtful OW-armour would solve a lot of problems. But it has to be grindy and expensive, the same as the other Armour's are.

A Strike CM armor would only make the same people scream why anet wastes resources in something that most people again, can't access.

 

Of course, i'm not a game-designer, im not a dev i don't have data. This is just my personal opinion.

And eventually i'am biasd, because i hate these endless discussionen about something i really love about this game, Raids are one of the content i enjoy the most. And the fact that i read a few times that people don't try to raid because of these threads is just sad.

 

If you actually read the first sentence, that's exactly what I said.

[Fuchslein.8639]

2 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

If you actually read the first sentence, that's exactly what I said.

Then i missread it, sorry.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

2 hours ago, Lottie.5370 said:

Legendary armour from strikes would be more accessible to most, I'd imagine. I'm not necessarily advocating for it though.

What about the current collection for legendary precursors? Would u introduce something similar but for Strikes CM?
Equivalent of Cairn greens would be no Exposed debuff on Mai Trin? Boy, that would trigger a lot of ppl.

[Lottie.5370]

15 minutes ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

What about the current collection for legendary precursors? Would u introduce something similar but for Strikes CM?
Equivalent of Cairn greens would be no Exposed debuff on Mai Trin? Boy, that would trigger a lot of ppl.

 

I mean as I said below I don't think it's a good idea, just that it would be more accessible.

 

"because strikes aren't necessarily the most casual friendly content. They are more accessible than raids, but still exclude a large amount of the playerbase (as you can tell by the turtle strike mission requirement threads). I think if they added a new PvE legendary armour, it shouldn't be with content so similar to the raid one - strikes even give you Li"

 

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

 

You've transported to a universe where this update is coming, legendary armor will be earned through strike cms (exciting I know) and in turn the rewards for raiding were buffed extensively. 

What rewards do you think would be good enough to justify this change?
 

Since I'm unlikely to ever raid or do a CM strike mission (I've done only one standard strike mission ever) this new universe I've been transported to would look identical to the old.

4 hours ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

 

Would this doom raids? Would no one play even if raiding was the best way to earn gold in the game? 
 

Seems to me it would make it more likely for raids to survive, not doom them. Is legendary armor the only thing keeping raids going? Because any reward you get and then are done is a terrible reward for something that is supposed to survive long term. If people are only doing it for legendary armor, at some point they have a full set, and then what?

4 hours ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

If you raid why do you raid and if you don't why don't you raid? 
 

I play as I can. Having a specific time to do specific content with a specific group of people is beyond my schedule.

I also don't have the kind of time to invest in play sessions long enough to do it with a bunch of other casuals like me all learning it as we go.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Seems to me it would make it more likely for raids to survive

Interesting, but why do you think that?

Edited May 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sirius.4510]

I'm not sure strike CMs actually are more accessible than raids. They may be easier to jump into because you don't need to clear a lot in a row, but they're arguably harder to beat than many raid bosses. I'm pretty sure it's quicker and easier to beat Cairn than Harvest Temple... and you get a Legendary Insight on the spot, without needing to do 3 other fairly lengthy strikes on top.

 

If anything, I'm concerned the EoD strikes' rewards are too low, and we're only doing them that much because they're new. They are already a lot longer than most of the IBS ones (particularly the "fast five" that people actually do routinely).

[Ashen.2907]

12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Interesting, but why do you think that?

He explained why in his post. Because one and done rewards are not good for long term survival of content. Expanding beyond that limit seems likely to be good for the content.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

He explained why in his post. Because one and done rewards are not good for long term survival of content. Expanding beyond that limit seems likely to be good for the content.

Ah, so it's just focusing on the second part of the thread, which is buffing the rewards. But if that's the case, you don't need to move "one and done" rewards out of the content if the goal is to increse profitability anyways. If the goal is to increase the rewards, then the response is just to increase the rewards -which is also why I'm not sure where did that "package deal" from OP came from in the first place.

One way or another: I don't really see the point of what is proposed in this thread.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

"I want Raid stuff without Raids" thread #59239

You might actually want to reread the proposal first before doing a kneejerk reaction.

I mean, i don;t think the proposal is any good, but for exactly opposite reason than you do - because to me it seems to be a suggestion to significantly buff rewards for raiders, nothing more. And i see no reason to do that.

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah, so it's just focusing on the second part of the thread, which is buffing the rewards. But if that's the case, you don't need to move "one and done" rewards out of the content if the goal is to increse profitability anyways. If the goal is to increase the rewards, then the response is just to increase the rewards 😄

Strike CMs are pretty much Raids-lite, and are being run by pretty much the same crowd. Opening a Raid reward to strike CMs does next to nothing to people that do not raid, because they won't be doing Strike CMs as well.

I do agree with your conclusion however: i also do not see any point in this proposal.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might actually want to reread the proposal first before doing a kneejerk reaction.

"What if Legendary armor was earned through strike cm"

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might actually want to reread the proposal first before doing a kneejerk reaction.

I mean, i don;t think the proposal is any good, but for exactly opposite reason than you do - because to me it seems to be a suggestion to significantly buff rewards for raiders, nothing more. And i see no reason to do that.

Strike CMs are pretty much Raids-lite, and are being run by pretty much the same crowd. Opening a Raid reward to strike CMs does next to nothing to people that do not raid, because they won't be doing Strike CMs as well.

I do agree with your conclusion however: i also do not see any point in this proposal.

So would you be happy if open world got same weekly lock out as raids?

I mean it should be fair right so lets implement that and watch this game die.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

"What if Legendary armor was earned through strike cm"

It already can be. Currently you can get 3 LI per week this way, 5 when all base EoD CMs will release, and probably more if future LS chapters add their own strikes. Besides, as i pointed out, Strike CMs are Anet's new approach to raiding. A type of content that is aimed at the very same community. You might as well call it Wing 8.

You might have had an argument if OP was talking about adding legendary armor to base strikes (and included the easy IBS ones in this), but they did not ask for that at all.

[Xelqypla.6817]

12 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

I guess you played dps then since both healer and tank have to take care of the mechanics in wow.

Healer must know when stuff happens to be ready with their big heals and tank for example must interupt and move the boss around if needed.

As a dps you just have to press buttons in the right order basicly

 

Healer. Druid in classic, Priest in whatever expansion when mana efficiency was the priority. Cata maybe? I generally play support.

Yes, there were mechanics, even the DPS had to deal with them. But they were fairly simple.

Compare it with the Kaineng Strike. Boss, 3 enemies, Boss, 2 Enemies, Boss. Each enemy has their own mechanics that overlap while the boss gains a new one each phase. Avoid this circle, stand in this circle, dodge this attack, eat this minor damage attack, move to the back, spread out, come together, put your left foot in and shake it all about. 

I don't enjoy that at all. Feels like I am just being pushed around by mechanics; not fighting a powerful enemy. Other people may feel differently and that's fine. I was just saying why I don't Raid (or do any instanced group content in MMOs anymore).

[Aridon.8362]

Just do the raid. 😑

[Sparrowspoo.8209]

I don't have the time for raids as I work alot and my life doesn't revolve around the game. Also not a fan of strike missions. I don't mind being in a small party but the fact that some people take this game way to far. I think the idea of a ope  world legendary armour set is great but I can see why people who spent ages getting there's being a bit peeved. You can't please everyone but raids and strikes are just not for me.