What's GW2's biggest lore mistake according to you?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

8 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It was heavily implied that there was a limit to how many dragons could die before the world go boom, and that each one that died threw the world even more out of balance.

And this was the case, no change there.

8 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Glint also had many eggs, but only 2 of them actually survived.. which was coincidentally irrelevant since Aurene was written so could just do it all solo, making Vlast unnecessary to the plan in the end.. if not a potential detriment as it was well established that Vlast lacked the same nurturing traits that made Aurene bond with mortals, a factor that we're lead to believe was essential to help her deal with all the power she was absorbing and controlling.

Not to mention that it is also well established that Vlast actively didn't want to play his part in his mothers legacy but felt like he had no choice due to the importance of it.

Had Vlast become an Elder Dragon it's possible he would not have been able to handle the power because he lacked that bond, he had no mortal champion and he never wanted to replace an Elder Dragon in the first place.. which would have likely resulted in him eventually being corrupted and going bad just like his Grandfather and the other 4 corrupted Elder Dragons.

And Glint didn't have 100% perfect vision of the future. She only saw things that might happen, or could happen, not that 100% would happen. She also lacked the ability to see even her own place in the future(remember, she couldn't see her own future past the battle with Kralkatorrik in Edge of Destiny). Vlast could have had a mortal champion, and could've turned out like Aurene, so having him part of the plan makes for a good backup. That it didn't turn out that way was bad luck, but that doesn't change him being part of the plan making sense.

8 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Not even Soo Won who literally split the void into magical domains and created the All could regulate all that magic by herself, hence why she created 5 other Elder Dragons to help her balance it.

To just blatantly write that Aurene can do what every other being in existence cannot "because reasons" is incredibly miraculous and difficult to believe.

Not to mention as someone mentioned earlier in this thread the ridiculousness of having the entire world's existence dependant on the wellbeing of a single living entity.. especially one that was even in this very expansion nearly killed by a mortal!! and a piece of technology....

No joke.. any insane psychopath out there who wants to end the world and all existence can literally do so with a literal push of a button.. I mean it literally almost happened in EoD XD

And then of course there are all those of evil intent who would just love to capture the only thing keeping the world alive so they could enforce ultimate power and control over the entire world under threat of an apocalypse should the world not submit to their will.

Soo-Won also wasn't born/created as part of a meticulous, 10,000+ year long, master plan set up by Glint, and the Forgotten, and assisted by several other groups across time like the Brotherhood of the Dragon, the Zephyrites, and the Exalted, among others, specifically to achieve the result of an Elder Dragon that COULD maintain such a balance. Who would have guessed a naturally forming entirety doesn't have the same specification as something designed for a specific purpose. Did you know trucks are better at towing things then cars?

And Aurene's ability to do what she doesn't is "because reasons" , that such a gross misrepresentation of what the game actually says you just threw out any semblance of wanting to have an honest conversation here. Aurene is able to do what she does because, unlike the other Elder Dragons, she doesn't hold all of the magical energy in her body, she instead filters it, and shares it with the hold, preventing the same issues the other Elder Dragons have. They went over this in dialogue back in like PoF and LWS4.

By your logic here there is no right answer to the world's problems. All of the other Elder Dragons were fellable(as evidenced that we felled them), so Aurene being killable isn't a change from how the natural order was before. Also, Aurene didn't almost die in EoD, she had a large part of her power drained. Aurene can't die because she consumed Joko's lich magic which made her immortal(they went over this during the end of LWS) She's literally conquered death.

Even still, the machine made by Anka isn't something anyone, let alone most people, could get their hands on, let alone operate properly. Only top tier, smartest people in the world, like Taimi, or Joon, could make such a thing.

8 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Suffice to say the concept of "The One Elder Dragon" is just incredibly convenient and ultimately bad and it does conflict with earlier story that suggests multiple dragons are needed for the balance, which not only is something that was at the very least hinted at but is also a far better, smarter and more believable way to end this story.

Anet it seems simply took the easy way out with Aurene becoming essentially a deus ex machina..

And while I am content to say yes I do still love this game and I do still really enjoy the story overall I simply can't ignore that there are plenty of areas where the story is very weak and could have been written to be significantly better and more believable.

This part of the story specifically is just in my opinion, one of the few biggest areas where I believe the ball was tossed out a window for convenience, time or other factors.

And again, there was never anything earlier in the story that suggested we need 6 Elder Dragon replacements. Only that we needed something to replace the Elder Dragons. The idea of there being six replacements would conflict with game lore going back to launch since there was never 6 things on Tyira that could replace them. At best we had 3, maybe 4, those being Aurene, Vlast, Glint, and maybe the Pale Tree, that could do it. So the idea of having 6 replacements was not only never mentioned, but never made sense. It was entirely a delusion made up by the fanbase never actually suggested or set up by the game.

Also, a Deus Ex Machina is something that appears out of nowhere, with no set up, to resolve the plot. The Aurene set up, not only of her existence, but of her ability to do what she does, has been part of the plot for like 7-8 years. Its the exact opposite of a Deus Ex Machina by all definitions.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Kalavier.1097]

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

I have no memory of that, nor can I find any info on that being how he obtained the mirror.

The only info I can find about Balthazar after being freed is that he hid himself on Tyria and somehow learned that the White Mantle were trying to revive Lazarus, which he then assumed the form of with the mirror.

 

There is no mention of him recovering the mirror from Orr nor where he spent his time while hiding, although it's probably fair to assume he hid among humans as an old man for a time as that would have probably been his best disguise without the mirror.

Specially since he did learn of the White Mantle's plans and I find it unlikely he would have picked up that information in Orr.

 

Pretty sure it's explicitly mentioned or implied that he visited Siren's Reef, activated the reliquaries, and then left. His mercs (and maybe him) returned later briefly, and they camped out at his reliquary.

 

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It was heavily implied that there was a limit to how many dragons could die before the world go boom, and that each one that died threw the world even more out of balance.

Glint also had many eggs, but only 2 of them actually survived.. which was coincidentally irrelevant since Aurene was written so could just do it all solo, making Vlast unnecessary to the plan in the end.. if not a potential detriment as it was well established that Vlast lacked the same nurturing traits that made Aurene bond with mortals, a factor that we're lead to believe was essential to help her deal with all the power she was absorbing and controlling.

Not to mention that it is also well established that Vlast actively didn't want to play his part in his mothers legacy but felt like he had no choice due to the importance of it.

Had Vlast become an Elder Dragon it's possible he would not have been able to handle the power because he lacked that bond, he had no mortal champion and he never wanted to replace an Elder Dragon in the first place.. which would have likely resulted in him eventually being corrupted and going bad just like his Grandfather and the other 4 corrupted Elder Dragons.

 

Because it was presented as an evolving science. Some people hate it, but we went from "We gotta kill elder dragons." to "Well kitten, Mordremoth caused a boom." to "OH kitten the bloodstone exploded and kittened up an entire area." Which lead to "Well kitten, if the other dragons also absorb and hoard up magic like the bloodstone, the destruction could be far, far worse."

Ironically, the last bit actually was established all the way back in Nightfall! The Crystal Sea turning to the Crystal Desert because of the gods warring, and Abaddon's death causing a storm of magic that threatened a lot of destruction if not absorbed and contained. So the idea of "Highly charged magical being exploding" isn't new. The reactor from Metrica province is another example, although mostly contained to the building.

The big thing is the sudden and instant release of magic back into the system would be very bad. Aurene acted as a counter to this, allowing the magic to flow out steadily without flooding the rivers, so to speak.

The plan of Glint's was to have her, Vlast, and her last viable egg ascend to Elder dragons, but they lacked others who could. The idea any dragon champion could ascend I believe came from when Zhaitan was described as gaining power post Zhaitan's death, leading some to speculate he was on path to become a new elder dragon of death.

Saying Vlast was irrelevant to the plan because Aurene ended up able to handle it I feel is a bit weird, because when the plan was made it held contingencies. Glint never planned on dying after all.

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Not to mention as someone mentioned earlier in this thread the ridiculousness of having the entire world's existence dependant on the wellbeing of a single living entity.. especially one that was even in this very expansion nearly killed by a mortal!! and a piece of technology....

No joke.. any insane psychopath out there who wants to end the world and all existence can literally do so with a literal push of a button.. I mean it literally almost happened in EoD XD

And then of course there are all those of evil intent who would just love to capture the only thing keeping the world alive so they could enforce ultimate power and control over the entire world under threat of an apocalypse should the world not submit to their will.

Was nearly killed by a mortal who spent years in the mists murdering herself and developed a desire to watch the entire world unravel and burn.

And she only got the shot off because Aurene was in the field. Now that the Elder dragons are gone, I'm betting she'll be relaxing in her lair in EoTN more then actively flying around the world, making it harder for any crazy evil dude to effectively attack her. And without that specific device, they are dealing with a very powerful dragon still.

As for the last bit, that assumes they can effectively contain her. IIRC back in Thunderhead, maybe even Jahai she could actively use rift portals to go in and out of the mists?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Because it was presented as an evolving science. Some people hate it, but we went from "We gotta kill elder dragons." to "Well kitten, Mordremoth caused a boom." to "OH kitten the bloodstone exploded and kittened up an entire area." Which lead to "Well kitten, if the other dragons also absorb and hoard up magic like the bloodstone, the destruction could be far, far worse."

To be fair, that wasn't really the direction of the narrative or the warnings. It was "we gotta kill elder dragons" to "well kitten, Mordremoth's magic is causing some problems but nothing too bad" to "oh kitten I just tested a simulation and if one more ed dies it will cause world ending problems, time to worry".

The Bloodstone explosion actually had nothing to do with the process, since as Taimi said she believed "we destroy them and deal with the fallout".

6 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Was nearly killed by a mortal who spent years in the mists murdering herself and developed a desire to watch the entire world unravel and burn.

And she only got the shot off because Aurene was in the field. Now that the Elder dragons are gone, I'm betting she'll be relaxing in her lair in EoTN more then actively flying around the world, making it harder for any crazy evil dude to effectively attack her. And without that specific device, they are dealing with a very powerful dragon still.

As for the last bit, that assumes they can effectively contain her. IIRC back in Thunderhead, maybe even Jahai she could actively use rift portals to go in and out of the mists?

Aurene's attitude in EoD made it pretty clear that Aurene wants to be active from now on. And Ankka just used what was basically Gorr's own Vacuumagic Polarizer invention that was used on Zhaitan for similar but lesser effect (shame that the devs forgot about it and never referenced it in EoD).

[JTGuevara.9018]

Definitely the latter half of season 3, which in my opinion, was complete GW1 fan service. (I say that as a GW1 fan). The whole Balthazar/Lazarus reveal was ham-fisted as was the entire Mursaat/Shining Blade scuffle. To top it off, a good chunk of that White Mantle lore just ended up being gated behind raids anyway. Season 3 just cratered towards the end.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Definitely the latter half of season 3, which in my opinion, was complete GW1 fan service. (I say that as a GW1 fan). The whole Balthazar/Lazarus reveal was ham-fisted as was the entire Mursaat/Shining Blade scuffle. To top it off, a good chunk of that White Mantle lore just ended up being gated behind raids anyway. Season 3 just cratered towards the end.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Now that season 1 is being remade (it's been received well, so far) , it will probably solidify season 3 as the worst.

Edited May 25, 2022 by JTGuevara.9018
edit for accidental double post

[Kalavier.1097]

4 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

To be fair, that wasn't really the direction of the narrative or the warnings. It was "we gotta kill elder dragons" to "well kitten, Mordremoth's magic is causing some problems but nothing too bad" to "oh kitten I just tested a simulation and if one more ed dies it will cause world ending problems, time to worry".

The Bloodstone explosion actually had nothing to do with the process, since as Taimi said she believed "we destroy them and deal with the fallout".

The same season had Taimi going from "Here's a device to kill two dragons." to "Wait, maybe we shouldn't use this..." as she did more research.

Also at the time Aurene hadn't actually hatched/was still a baby and hadn't shown real magic absorbing ability yet, but later after PoF we started factoring in that she could help deal with the fallout, so killing a dragon was risky, but not horrific yet. Though we weren't sure of what'd happen after she ascended and if other dragons died.

17 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Aurene's attitude in EoD made it pretty clear that Aurene wants to be active from now on. And Ankka just used what was basically Gorr's own Vacuumagic Polarizer invention that was used on Zhaitan for similar but lesser effect (shame that the devs forgot about it and never referenced it in EoD).

I took it more as Aurene wanted to be active because there was still an Elder Dragon out there, and she didn't want to idly sit back like she did with Jormag and Primordus out of fear of imbalance things. Now the Elder Dragon threat/conflict is over, she can be more relaxed and focus on keeping the balance. At least, that is my personal take.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

14 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Though we weren't sure of what'd happen after she ascended and if other dragons died.

IMO, that's the issue there. There isn't a single line of dialogue discussing the rammifications or possibility that Aurene couldnt' replace Kralkatorrik, or couldn't handle Jormag and Primordus' powers.

None at all.

We went from "let's kill all elder dragons" to "we can't kill another Elder Dragon" to "let's kill them all". While the transition between the first two were fine, the transition between the second two is... not there. It just happens.

There's no actual reason for us to believe Aurene was capable of replacing Kralkatorrik during All or Nothing and the Commander simply ignored not just this possibility but also the repeated warning of Aurene's inevitable death visions were she to fight Kralk. And again there's no actual reason for the world to not shatter in some manner the moment Jormag or Primordus died, and the Commander simply this fact.

Not even a "maybe Aurene can handle it" voiced. It's just done.

14 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I took it more as Aurene wanted to be active because there was still an Elder Dragon out there, and she didn't want to idly sit back like she did with Jormag and Primordus out of fear of imbalance things. Now the Elder Dragon threat/conflict is over, she can be more relaxed and focus on keeping the balance. At least, that is my personal take.

The way she talks at the end of End of Dragons also felt more of "I want to explore the world", though this would only be after helping Joon with the whole dragonjade energy crisis.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

IMO, that's the issue there. There isn't a single line of dialogue discussing the rammifications or possibility that Aurene couldnt' replace Kralkatorrik, or couldn't handle Jormag and Primordus' powers.

None at all.

We went from "let's kill all elder dragons" to "we can't kill another Elder Dragon" to "let's kill them all". While the transition between the first two were fine, the transition between the second two is... not there. It just happens.

There's no actual reason for us to believe Aurene was capable of replacing Kralkatorrik during All or Nothing and the Commander simply ignored not just this possibility but also the repeated warning of Aurene's inevitable death visions were she to fight Kralk. And again there's no actual reason for the world to not shatter in some manner the moment Jormag or Primordus died, and the Commander simply this fact.

Not even a "maybe Aurene can handle it" voiced. It's just done.

Why exactly would anyone in universe believe that Aurene wouldn't be able to replace Kralkatorrik when not only the whole reason behind why she existed was to do just that, but we also knew of a prophecy by Glint(that involved Joko's death among other things) that would signal the time she was ready for it, and we went through that whole Scion/Champion test in Glint's realm during Thunderhead Peaks that was literally all about preparing her how to do it, and how to handle the power she would gain from it? We had a pretty clear cut list of things that needed to happen before Aurene could do this, and it was all done.

You could debate Jormag/Primordus, but at the time that happens we were literally in a 11th hour nightmare scenario where Jormag was poised to defeat Primordus, become unstoppable, and bring about planetary doom. We really had no other choice but to kill them. It literally didn't matter if Aurene could do it or not, we HAD to do this to stop Jormag from winning. Any discussion about it would have been irellivent, and all the major players in universe would have known that.

Given that Aurene's ascension seemed to wipe the slate clean in regards to the ill effects of dragon deaths, what with all the volatile and unbound magics vanishing, as well as the lay-infused super monsters, the deaths of Primordus and Jormag would've, at worse, reset us back to LWS4 era, which is bad, but manageable so long as we didn't kill Soo-Won without finding something to replace her with.

There's literally every reason for us to believe Aurene would replace Kralkatorrik in All or Nothing, and her ability to replace Jormag and Primordus was a non-factor in the situation we were facing regarding Jormag and Primordus.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Narcemus.1348]

At one point it was mentioned that Aurene cannot die because she absorbed Joko's lich magic, but do we know that this is the case anymore? She had her magic drained from her by Ankka's extractor, and when we asked her how she was feeling she says she feels hollow and mentions the possibility of it being gone.

 

"Aurene: It could be the start of something worse—a slow dwindling of the spirit to nothingness—but l have no reason to think it will.

Aurene: It's not like anything I felt with Kralkatorrik—like only a small sliver remained to reform the rest from void.

Aurene: So all I can say is that, for now, I don't believe I'm going anywhere."

 

I think for the time being we have to kinda treat her Joko's magic kinda like schrodinger's cat. Until we observe it we somewhat have to treat it as both existing still and possibly being completely extracted by the machine.

[Teratus.2859]

1 hour ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I think for the time being we have to kinda treat her Joko's magic kinda like schrodinger's cat. Until we observe it we somewhat have to treat it as both existing still and possibly being completely extracted by the machine.

I would agree.

Even the fact that something could weaken her to that point would be a point of concern.

What would happen if she was hit again in such a weakened state?.. would the machine draw out her very life force?.. Dragons are connected to magic in this franchise after all, even most of the lesser ones.

 

Perhaps Aurene is "immortal" in the same way Joko was, via magical lich means.

But if her magic can be extracted from her by a machine leaving her in a crippled and weakened state (which we know for a fact it can) then I would argue that under the right circumstances there is a pretty strong possibility that she can still die.

20 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

And Glint didn't have 100% perfect vision of the future. She only saw things that might happen, or could happen, not that 100% would happen. She also lacked the ability to see even her own place in the future(remember, she couldn't see her own future past the battle with Kralkatorrik in Edge of Destiny). Vlast could have had a mortal champion, and could've turned out like Aurene, so having him part of the plan makes for a good backup. That it didn't turn out that way was bad luck, but that doesn't change him being part of the plan making sense.

Oh he made sense for the plan, that's not what I meant.

What I was criticizing was the convenience of Aurene taking on the job alone when there was never any indication that she nor any being in the world could handle that task.. not even her own mother and brother, and not even Soo-Won who basically created the All in the first place when she split the void in to the 6 domains of magic.

 

Aurene despite the odds was basically the miracle baby, becoming exactly what we needed when we needed it upon her ascension. (hence my poor choice of words when I referred to her as a deus ex machina) 

And that made her a convenient plot device rather than one part of a bigger story which imo would have been more interesting.

In this case having to find multiple replacements for the last 3 dragons while being powerless to actually do anything about them until said replacement is found.

Vlast, Kuunavang and the Pale Tree all being potentially viable candidates and could have had interesting stories built around them becoming Elder Dragons.. and then there is also Albax as well as potential for new original characters or idea's to act as solutions, either temporary or permanent.

The Pale Tree in particular becoming an Elder Dragon would have been really interesting to see if you ask me.

Perhaps the Asura or Joon could also figure out a way to recreate something like the bloodstone and use that to seal a dragon's power away rather than unleashing it on the world upon it's death.. even as a temporary solution that could be revisited later or possibly in a Gw3.

After all it was a mortal race that created the original bloodstone to hide magic from the Elder Dragons.. So it's well within the realms of believability that someone else could figure out how they did it and replicate/improve upon the concept to contain an Elder Dragons magic instead.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

At one point it was mentioned that Aurene cannot die because she absorbed Joko's lich magic, but do we know that this is the case anymore? She had her magic drained from her by Ankka's extractor, and when we asked her how she was feeling she says she feels hollow and mentions the possibility of it being gone.

EoD opens with the Commander calling whether Aurene is still immortal into question. 

[Narcemus.1348]

56 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

EoD opens with the Commander calling whether Aurene is still immortal into question. 

Well, immortal is not the right terminology. She is probably still immortal in the sense of not dying due to old age, as she would need to be. The issue is whether she is invulnerable to death anymore, which I know you know. But I do feel that terminology is important.

 

Even when she was unkillable, she was still vulnerable. All you would need to do to take her out is stab her through the heart and she can't heal the wound, before the extractor even existed.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

16 minutes ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

Well, immortal is not the right terminology. She is probably still immortal in the sense of not dying due to old age, as she would need to be. The issue is whether she is invulnerable to death anymore, which I know you know. But I do feel that terminology is important.

 

Even when she was unkillable, she was still vulnerable. All you would need to do to take her out is stab her through the heart and she can't heal the wound, before the extractor even existed.

Semantics aside, exact quoting:

Aurene: I'm intrigued! I'm intensely curious! And even if I die, we know I won't stay dead.

<Character name>: We think.

course stabbing the heart is a big harder for an Elder Dragon.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Aurene despite the odds was basically the miracle baby, becoming exactly what we needed when we needed it upon her ascension. (hence my poor choice of words when I referred to her as a deus ex machina) 

And that made her a convenient plot device rather than one part of a bigger story which imo would have been more interesting.

In this case having to find multiple replacements for the last 3 dragons while being powerless to actually do anything about them until said replacement is found.

Vlast, Kuunavang and the Pale Tree all being potentially viable candidates and could have had interesting stories built around them becoming Elder Dragons.. and then there is also Albax as well as potential for new original characters or idea's to act as solutions, either temporary or permanent.

The Pale Tree in particular becoming an Elder Dragon would have been really interesting to see if you ask me.

Perhaps the Asura or Joon could also figure out a way to recreate something like the bloodstone and use that to seal a dragon's power away rather than unleashing it on the world upon it's death.. even as a temporary solution that could be revisited later or possibly in a Gw3.

After all it was a mortal race that created the original bloodstone to hide magic from the Elder Dragons.. So it's well within the realms of believability that someone else could figure out how they did it and replicate/improve upon the concept to contain an Elder Dragons magic instead.

Kuunavang being a dragon replacement never really made sense in the long run because she isn't from an Elder Dragon like Glint, Vlast, Aurene, and the Pale Tree are, and thus, really has no reason to be able to take in or handle the powers of an Elder Dragon. Shes just an old and powerful Saltspray dragon, which are just mortal animals. If she was able to do it, one would think Glint would have contacted her and gotten her in on the plan thousands of years ago, and we would have had references to this way back when we first started learning about the plan.

Using the Bloodstone to store an Elder Dragon's magic is itself a narrative turn you almost certainly don't want to do. Doing that doesn't solve the problem, it just delays it, which also makes any conclusion to an Elder Dragon plot unsatisfying because players would know we didn't actually solve the problem, we just transferred the problem from one place to another. This means everything we did was just one giant case of faffing about. Having to last into a hypothetical GW3 would be even worse because it would mean GW2 would end with its main plot unresolved, just to artificially extend the plot into another game when it could have been resolved in this game. And given that the other Elder Dragons are dead and their powers resolved, GW3 couldn't be entirely around that one plot premise, meaning it would be a small side plot, like a LW style side plot, thats over and done in little time making delaying it into GW3 seem even more pointless. Not to mention, its mentioned several times in LWS4 that killing Kralkatorrik in the Mists is bad becuase it would remove all the magic Kralk had taken in from the system, which would end the world. Putting the dragon magic into a bloodstone should have the same result since you're removing that spectrum of magic from the world.

There's also a number of other narrative issues involved regarding there being more then Aurene.

1. Having the Pale Tree become an Elder Dragon replacement would create too big of an imbalance between the Sylvari and the other races. Aurene works, in universe, because shes not directly beholden to any of the races governments. The Pale Tree is literally the leader of one of the five major races of Tyira, and even though Jennah, Knut, Crecia, and the Arcane Council would know the Pale Tree is cool and all, theres no real satisfying way to resolve the inevitable political tension that would arise from one of the races having a WMD in its pocket. Again, Aurene only really works because shes a WMD in no one's pocket. And we already saw the issues that caused for people like Bangar. Imagine what would happen if Aurene swore herself to humanity first or something.
2. Vlast has two problems. The first is that if you make Vlast like Aurene, having a champion and being all in on the plan, you just create a carbon copy of Aurene, but a guy, in the process. this makes his character redundant in the plot, and unless his champion like solves the Joko problem in Elona themselves they wouldn't appear worthy of being an Elder Dragon champion compared to the player. But having them solve the Elona problem themselves robs players of a reason/chance to go to Elona in GW2 since the problem would be solved, and you're not going to rob the playerbase of something that important.
3. Vlast's second problem lies on the opposite end of the spectrum. That being, if Anet left Vlast the way he is, no champion, not really all in on the plan and doing it just out of obligation, etc, the only real narrative place for him to go narratively is be corrupted by the magic, turn evil, and then Aurene has to kill him. This just leaves us in the same position we are now, with Aurene being the only one holding the balance together, but it also means we just created an Elder Dragon only to turn around and kill it, making the whole plot moot in the first place. With how volatile the MMO market tends to be, and it being comparatively rare that MMOs make it to 10 years of active content development, I don't think Anet would want to artificially extend GW2's main plot longer then the near decade long time frame it already has. I also doubt people would have taken well to them making Vlast evil. Having him die the way he did spared him having to be either a redundant copy of Aurene, or go evil and get killed anyways. He got to die the hero, protecting his little sister, rather then live long enough to become the villain.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Jagblade.4627]

The changes they made to the Charr when the game first launched will always be among the worst botches / changes to the lore to me, as well as painting the Ebonhawke Separatists as 100% black and white evil for wanting to be independent from Kryta.

[Kalavier.1097]

25 minutes ago, Jagblade.4627 said:

The changes they made to the Charr when the game first launched will always be among the worst botches / changes to the lore to me, as well as painting the Ebonhawke Separatists as 100% black and white evil for wanting to be independent from Kryta.

I mean, they were painted as evil because they were attacking both military targets as well as harassing/attacking citizens.

And you know, for actively wanting to continue the war with Charr no matter the cost. TBH, I don't really recall must of them wanting independence being involved. More "F the Charr and we'll never accept peace with them!" Elements of "F Kryta for wanting peace" but more the former then the latter.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Jagblade.4627 said:

painting the Ebonhawke Separatists as 100% black and white evil for wanting to be independent from Kryta.

For wanting to be independent from Kryta and:

1. Active terrorism, blowing up populated commercial streets
2. Attempted kidnapping of national leaders
3. Arguing for the continued warfare, lethally.
4. Killing people who try to leave their organization
5. Attempted assassination of foreign diplomats

Among other crimes and actions to be viewed poorly.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Valfar.3761]

The Ascalonian resistance being demonized as villains for the crime of defending themselves from bloodthirsty, human sacrificing monsters. It's just as bad as the Alliance being demonized for defending themselves in Warcraft. 

Also, the defanging of the Charr. Charr could have still been playable if you were playing as a breakaway Legion that wasn't as bloodthirsty as the rest. Iron Legion could have been a good candidate, recognizing that the Charr's barbarian economy was unsustainable and wanting to stop and settle down and transition to a more enduring lifestyle, which means making peace with the neighbors. The variety of the other legions could have still been represented among the players by defector warbands, either allured by the Iron Legion's goals or ousted from their own Legions for various reasons.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Valfar.3761

[Kalavier.1097]

10 hours ago, Valfar.3761 said:

The Ascalonian resistance being demonized as villains for the crime of defending themselves from bloodthirsty, human sacrificing monsters. It's just as bad as the Alliance being demonized for defending themselves in Warcraft. 

Also, the defanging of the Charr. Charr could have still been playable if you were playing as a breakaway Legion that wasn't as bloodthirsty as the rest. Iron Legion could have been a good candidate, recognizing that the Charr's barbarian economy was unsustainable and wanting to stop and settle down and transition to a more enduring lifestyle, which means making peace with the neighbors. The variety of the other legions could have still been represented among the players by defector warbands, either allured by the Iron Legion's goals or ousted from their own Legions for various reasons.

A: They are demonized as villains for attacking their own people, as well as trying to sabotage a peace treaty that would allow them to live in peace. It's not anything like the Alliance vs Horde.

B: So... instead of the Charr being how they are now, you want the charr to be exactly as they are now, but with the majority of them being hostile toward everybody and villains?

[Westenev.5289]

I have a few.

 

Can the Sons of Svanir be more than skirt hating scumbags who impale themselves on any dragon artifact they come across? We get hints of black and grey when it comes to the inquest, but it feels like the other "evil" racial factions are just cartoon stupid evil.

 

Killing Tybalt/Forgal/Sieran at level 60 was a mistake - I get that their deaths are meant to be the big wake up call that lead to the creation of the pact, but we just didn't get a replacement for them (Traehearne was a poor replacement, and everyone else was either brief acquaintances or dead by the end of the story arc).

 

The season 1 recap (or lack thereof) made LWS2 and HoT really hard to jump into (YAY! I killed a dragon with Destiny's Edge! Now I'm time skipping to being in a team with some tweens, a toddler, and her assist mech? WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED HERE?! xD)

 

Belinda. Oh, boy, I really couldn't have been more apathetic during Jory's big character defining moment at Fort Salma - which leads to a huge disconnect between me and Jory every time she had screen time (particularly how she always spent her screen time bickering with Kas).

Edited June 4, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[Wolfb.7025]

Anything that directly involves Scarlet.

Smodur's out of character personality in IBS,

The commander joining the Shining Blade.

 

This is a more personal thing but the "How to train your dragon" kind of scene between the commander and baby aurene in LWS3 made me cringe so hard.

 

Oh and I bet everyone would agree that Braham becoming an a ss in LWS3 is also a big mistake and that's the biggest reason the big majority of players hates him as a character.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Wolfb.7025

[DemonCrypto.6792]

(more a lore hole than a mistake)

I have one thing, i feel , a big paradox.
Why no skritt have been found branded by kralkatoric coruption.

I mean -> in one corner we have a shinie sparkly piece of branded cristal

               -> in the other a skritt (who want the shinies)

So where  are branded skritts ?

this is the most conpulsive race of Tyria, Why have they been spared from it ?

[Westenev.5289]

2 hours ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

(more a lore hole than a mistake)

I have one thing, i feel , a big paradox.
Why no skritt have been found branded by kralkatoric coruption.

I mean -> in one corner we have a shinie sparkly piece of branded cristal

               -> in the other a skritt (who want the shinies)

So where  are branded skritts ?

this is the most conpulsive race of Tyria, Why have they been spared from it ?

 

I mean, Skritt largely live underground caves, and it appears earth and rock can mitigate or block Kralkatorik's corruption (as seen with Sun's Refuge). As such, it's creatures that usually live above ground or in shallow buildings/tunnels (like Charr, devourers, Humans, Ogres and the like) that're the most vulnerable.

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

Oh and I bet everyone would agree that Braham becoming an a ss in LWS3 is also a big mistake and that's the biggest reason the big majority of players hates him as a character.

And let's not forget about him magically becoming an arachnophobe for the whole of one instance, despite never having spider issues before and never again after, just for the unnecessary failed attempt at comedic relief banter.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Fueki.4753