What's GW2's biggest lore mistake according to you?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

13 minutes ago, Pax.3548 said:

Primordus "woke up because Jormag woke up"   -  I'm pretty sure it was Braham with the spirits of the wild that reawakened primordious, before that he was dormant.

Braham finished the process, but the entire premise of Champions was, to quote the very opening dialogue of the episode:

Quote

Aurene: My friends—you've felt if too? The stirrings deep beneath us?
<Character name>: Earthquakes erupting, all over Tyria.
Aurene: So the Crystal Bloom have told me.
Braham Eirsson: Jormag.
Aurene: I don't believe it is. But something is moving. Something's coming.

[...]

Jormag through Bangar: Aurene. Ah, you're amassing your warriors! They won't be any use.
<Character name>: You mean against the earthquakes.
Jormag through Bangar: My brother is incapable of subtlety. He stirs. And when he awakens, it will not be with the same grace as I.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus_Rising

I mean, the beginning of Champions is even titled Primordus Rising. A perfect mirror of the previous episode Jormag Rising which features Jormag waking - rising, if you will. And not to mention the final talk with Bangar:

Quote

Aurene: Jormag, we need to—
Voice of Jormag: I've been waiting for you. I can be patient, Aurene, but I hope you'll be quicker to act in the days ahead.
Aurene: Primordus.
Voice of Jormag: His hunger will grow as he stirs. Destruction is not far off. You and your Champion have already seen signs.
Aurene: You knew this would happen, but you still chose to impose your waking—and Primordus's—on the world.

Which quite literally states that Jormag's wakening caused Primordus to begin to stir.

13 minutes ago, Pax.3548 said:

"and went to immediately attack Jormag out of animalistic desire to end Jormag's life"   - Weren't Primordus and Jormag forced to face each other, by luring them to the same ley line center?

In the end, yes, that is how they fight during Dragonstorm - through some magical BS ex machina of "oh well we have this convenient excuse of how to get the two together".

But again the entire premise of IBS: Champions is that Primordus sought to end Jormag's life, that Jormag "was chained" to Primordus, and that there was this apparent prophecy that "either Jormag kills Primordus, or Primordus kills Jormag" (which isn't much of a prophecy given that it's just another way of saying "Entity A and Entity B are the only things that can kill each other and Entity A wants to kill Entity B, so either Entity B eventually dies to Entity A or Entity B manages to kill Entity A first". In Episode 4, Jormag Rising, they even included an achievement which has flavor text stating that Primordus attacked Jormag in the previous dragonrise cycle.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[wazaaman.1407]

Forgetting about Zojja, not having her present when dealing with Kralkatorrik in All or Nothing / War Eternal.

 

Edge of Destiny got me really hyped about GW2 in 2012, and Zojja not getting a kind of revenge for Snaff's death feels really wrong in my opinion. She wasn't even mentioned by Rytlock or Logan, which I don't really understand after all that happened between them.

[greedywholesome.9081]

It needs male to male lovers/partners 

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

It needs male to male lovers/partners 

I think there's a male-male Sylvari couple in one of the Sylvari starting stories.

And during that match making heart in Vabbi, you can match homosexual couples of both types.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[squeegee.4320]

I'm still not over the whole "Balthazar" ordeal.

[greedywholesome.9081]

6 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I think there's a male-male Sylvari couple in one of the Sylvari starting stories.

And during that match making heart in Vabbi, you can match homosexual couples of both types.

 

How exciting, I'm going to create a new Sylvari and also check out the match making heart in Vabbi. Thanks, been enjoying PVE lately. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:46 PM, Kalavier.1097 said:

As much as people have bashing IBS, I feel that subject is an atomized horse and I just roll my eyes at it because it ends up in a circular scream fest. It sucked what happened, but most of the team got yanked to work on EoD, blame upper management.

Honestly, "biggest lore mistake" I'd feel maybe is making it so all the Seers and Forgotten are dead. Rare as hell is fine. But have the Forgotten still be around in the god realms/Kormirs library or even just secluded deep in the desert.

I get both, and don't mind it that much but it's the thing that comes to mind off the top of my head.

Or possibly making it so Koss doesn't join us in dragon's watch to adventure!

It doesn't really matter who is to blame for it.  It happened and the result is an awful way to wrap up a story line.

I'd say the biggest mistake outside of that was probably episodes 5 and 6 of LS3, which have nothing to do with our story whatsoever and seem to be somebody's weird dive into leftover GW1 lore.

[Fueki.4753]

52 minutes ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

How exciting, I'm going to create a new Sylvari and also check out the match making heart in Vabbi. Thanks, been enjoying PVE lately. 

According to the Wiki, that couple is part of the "Green Knight" choice from the character creation.

You can find more homosexual and even interspecies couples on the wiki.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gender_and_sexuality_in_Tyria

Edited May 18, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Narcemus.1348]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

According to the Wiki, that couple is part of the "Green Knight" choice from the character creation.

You can find more homosexual and even interspecies couples on the wiki.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gender_and_sexuality_in_Tyria

Yeah, I was going to say that though it's not shown, Theo Ashford was in a same sex marriage. I don't recall if this was from original lore (I don't recall much existing about him up til his assassination) but it was mentioned in the most recent story he had a husband and kid.

[Kalavier.1097]

One I've heard a LOT about to the point of my sighing, but I'd say there was a mistake in making the PC of various races and backgrounds have close friends that just disappear.

Worse with the Charr, and I'd bet maybe Asura? Could've been solved with letters or random appearances to indicate we kept in touch, and with Charr maybe have the warband appear at the base camp and use other random npcs for the cache keepers.

As human noble main, I get Faren everywhere, but what about the street rats, the Norn, the Sylvari etc.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

Yeah, I was going to say that though it's not shown, Theo Ashford was in a same sex marriage. I don't recall if this was from original lore (I don't recall much existing about him up til his assassination) but it was mentioned in the most recent story he had a husband and kid.

Nah, it wasn't a thing in Season 1. From his first appearance during The Lost Shores prelude patch, all the way to his death in Dragon Bash, there was no mention of him being married or having family. Just being a "friend of the family" to Logan Thackeray.

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:55 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

According to the Wiki, that couple is part of the "Green Knight" choice from the character creation.

You can find more homosexual and even interspecies couples on the wiki.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gender_and_sexuality_in_Tyria

 

I thank you. I am enticed to log on and play more GW2 pve. 

[Teratus.2859]

Biggest lore mistake for me is the throwing out of Elder Dragons need replacements and instead just having Aurine be our one solution to everything win button.

 

But there are a lot of little nitpicks with the lore and story and things either being tied up in an unsatisfactory way.

Such as Lazarus the Dire for example who played no real role in Gw2 what so ever and was basically spawn camped and removed from the world.. wasting a potentially interesting and classic Guildwars enemy we could have had a whole story arc built around.

And of course Primordus who is by far the most wasted villain in Gw2 in my own personal opinion and I still feel the sting of this one.

 

And then there are things that have been flat out forgotten about or just ignored.

Like why did Balthazar have Lyssa's Mirror?

Will we ever get an in game/universe conclusion to Malycks story and the existence of other Pale Trees?

And where the kitten is Magdaer!!! ? xD

[DreadstoneofXev.6810]

I've been playing a month. Are we "Champions" or just schmucks with abilities, helping the Rytlock's / Eir Stegalkin's? (I don't believe there is a right answer to this, just personal preference)

 

WoW's "story" (butchered to bits) was back and forth in all of this. (Never you mind the rehashed "Alliance hates Horde, but wait, there's this world ending threat, we need to work together. Oh threat dealt with? Ok, go back to hating each other" nonsense)

 

Is there an "Ultimate Evil" (aka World Ending Threat), or do we finish off the equivalent of the Legion, only to find out they were pawns for somebody else? With GW2's horizontal progression, the "lean" would be (at least to me) towards "This is the ultimate BB, and you can never defeat it, only delay / stymy / hibernate it" (whatever "it" is). 

 

We haven't travelled off-world (at least I don't think I have), so there's that possibility. (Hopefully AN has the writing chops to pull that off better than Blizzard, er I mean Activision). Reading this thread, at least there isn't the overarching nonsense of a Sylvanas character.

 

 

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

I don't think it can be considered a lore mistake, but it really bothers me when some open world dialogues with NPCs aren't consistent with our character's lore. I main a sylvari, and it's so annoying when I talk to another sylvari NPC and my main asks them "What's the Pale Tree?". Like...

[Dante.1508]

• The fact they "almost" killed of the Dwarves to be different and edgy over other mmorpgs.. And never bothered making them player characters.. Irked me for years since Gw1...
• Basically disposing of our starter race areas and characters friends over some pact story.. and never really touching on it again..

 

And not making Skritt characters either..

  

On 5/19/2022 at 4:49 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Nah, it wasn't a thing in Season 1. From his first appearance during The Lost Shores prelude patch, all the way to his death in Dragon Bash, there was no mention of him being married or having family. Just being a "friend of the family" to Logan Thackeray.

I don't even remember Theo Ashland.. 🤔

Edited May 23, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

I don't even remember Theo Ashland.. 🤔

Well tomorrow you can get to see him for all of 0.5 seconds before his death! 😄

[DarcShriek.5829]

The tragic waste of Lydia was a huge mistake.  It would have been nice if we had significantly interacted with her alias before episode 6.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Biggest lore mistake for me is the throwing out of Elder Dragons need replacements and instead just having Aurine be our one solution to everything win button.

They didn't throw out "the Elder Dragons need replacements". As we saw before Aurene ascended, the world was going to hell and back due to nothing being there to fill the gap.

However, Anet never said each of the Elder dragons need their own replacement. All they ever said was that they need replacements. The idea that there had to be 6 replacements, one for each Elder Dragon, was something made up by the fandom. And it was something that never actually made sense because Glint's whole plan hinged on Aurene and Vlast, only two replacements for the 6 Elder Dragons.

9 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

And then there are things that have been flat out forgotten about or just ignored.

Like why did Balthazar have Lyssa's Mirror?

Because he got into her vault in Orr and took it. They covered this back in LWS3.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Dante.1508]

Tragic waste of Blish.. what annoys me was hes a golem he could have been saved.

[Teratus.2859]

10 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They didn't throw out "the Elder Dragons need replacements". As we saw before Aurene ascended, the world was going to hell and back due to nothing being there to fill the gap.

However, Anet never said each of the Elder dragons need their own replacement. All they ever said was that they need replacements. The idea that there had to be 6 replacements, one for each Elder Dragon, was something made up by the fandom. And it was something that never actually made sense because Glint's whole plan hinged on Aurene and Vlast, only two replacements for the 6 Elder Dragons.

It was heavily implied that there was a limit to how many dragons could die before the world go boom, and that each one that died threw the world even more out of balance.

Glint also had many eggs, but only 2 of them actually survived.. which was coincidentally irrelevant since Aurene was written so could just do it all solo, making Vlast unnecessary to the plan in the end.. if not a potential detriment as it was well established that Vlast lacked the same nurturing traits that made Aurene bond with mortals, a factor that we're lead to believe was essential to help her deal with all the power she was absorbing and controlling.

Not to mention that it is also well established that Vlast actively didn't want to play his part in his mothers legacy but felt like he had no choice due to the importance of it.

Had Vlast become an Elder Dragon it's possible he would not have been able to handle the power because he lacked that bond, he had no mortal champion and he never wanted to replace an Elder Dragon in the first place.. which would have likely resulted in him eventually being corrupted and going bad just like his Grandfather and the other 4 corrupted Elder Dragons.

 

Not even Soo Won who literally split the void into magical domains and created the All could regulate all that magic by herself, hence why she created 5 other Elder Dragons to help her balance it.

To just blatantly write that Aurene can do what every other being in existence cannot "because reasons" is incredibly miraculous and difficult to believe.

Not to mention as someone mentioned earlier in this thread the ridiculousness of having the entire world's existence dependant on the wellbeing of a single living entity.. especially one that was even in this very expansion nearly killed by a mortal!! and a piece of technology....

No joke.. any insane psychopath out there who wants to end the world and all existence can literally do so with a literal push of a button.. I mean it literally almost happened in EoD XD

And then of course there are all those of evil intent who would just love to capture the only thing keeping the world alive so they could enforce ultimate power and control over the entire world under threat of an apocalypse should the world not submit to their will.

 

Suffice to say the concept of "The One Elder Dragon" is just incredibly convenient and ultimately bad and it does conflict with earlier story that suggests multiple dragons are needed for the balance, which not only is something that was at the very least hinted at but is also a far better, smarter and more believable way to end this story.

Anet it seems simply took the easy way out with Aurene becoming essentially a deus ex machina..

And while I am content to say yes I do still love this game and I do still really enjoy the story overall I simply can't ignore that there are plenty of areas where the story is very weak and could have been written to be significantly better and more believable.

This part of the story specifically is just in my opinion, one of the few biggest areas where I believe the ball was tossed out a window for convenience, time or other factors.

10 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Because he got into her vault in Orr and took it. They covered this back in LWS3.

I have no memory of that, nor can I find any info on that being how he obtained the mirror.

The only info I can find about Balthazar after being freed is that he hid himself on Tyria and somehow learned that the White Mantle were trying to revive Lazarus, which he then assumed the form of with the mirror.

 

There is no mention of him recovering the mirror from Orr nor where he spent his time while hiding, although it's probably fair to assume he hid among humans as an old man for a time as that would have probably been his best disguise without the mirror.

Specially since he did learn of the White Mantle's plans and I find it unlikely he would have picked up that information in Orr.

 

That said that all dependant on whether the "old man" form that Balthazar used was a form he could assume at any time and not another illusion created by the mirror.

If the mirror was responsible for that form too then Balthazar most definitely had the mirror while he was chained up in the mists, and we could only conclude from that that he either stole it and hid it before he was imprisoned or that Lyssa give it to him for some unknown reason.

Lyssa being the only God he did not condemn upon his death however does beg questions.

[Dondarrion.2748]

Even as a human character, the most jarring for me thus far in the GW2 saga was the whole Shining Blade inauguration.

Avoiding talking about the whole Jormag v Primordus ordeal, starting from an even earlier point in time when lo and behold Taimi suddenly flicks a few switches on Omadd's Machine to put them back to slumber...

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It was heavily implied that there was a limit to how many dragons could die before the world go boom, and that each one that died threw the world even more out of balance.

Glint also had many eggs, but only 2 of them actually survived.. which was coincidentally irrelevant since Aurene was written so could just do it all solo, making Vlast unnecessary to the plan in the end.. if not a potential detriment as it was well established that Vlast lacked the same nurturing traits that made Aurene bond with mortals, a factor that we're lead to believe was essential to help her deal with all the power she was absorbing and controlling.

Not to mention that it is also well established that Vlast actively didn't want to play his part in his mothers legacy but felt like he had no choice due to the importance of it.

Had Vlast become an Elder Dragon it's possible he would not have been able to handle the power because he lacked that bond, he had no mortal champion and he never wanted to replace an Elder Dragon in the first place.. which would have likely resulted in him eventually being corrupted and going bad just like his Grandfather and the other 4 corrupted Elder Dragons.

You're not wrong. You never claimed a number and it was stressed even in Taimi talks that there should be multiple replacements - again no exact number given, except for the whole "if one more Elder Dragon dies, the world does too" implying at least four needed. Glint also had laid over 20 eggs in GW1 (I counted, iirc it was 24 counting both model and those you can pick up which didn't affect the models), so the plan was never meant to rely on just Aurene and Vlast.

The sad and ironic bit is that Vlast was written that way because they didn't want him to be stuck in a cave offering advice when his personality would dictate he would take action. Which they then did to Aurene. Twice. Granted the second time she was healing and then acting off-screen (so why couldn't Vlast be the same)?

What's very interesting is that when Vlast was said to not bond with mortals, he was compared to Glint who had, implying that the whole "bond with mortals" thing was not unique to Aurene...

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Anet it seems simply took the easy way out with Aurene becoming essentially a deus ex machina..

Less of a dues ex machina and more of just a bad plot device, really. Aurene didn't come out of nowhere, and it was built up - albeit poorly - that she could handle all magic types, but it was also hinted she couldn't handle all magic quantity.

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

I have no memory of that, nor can I find any info on that being how he obtained the mirror.

The only info I can find about Balthazar after being freed is that he hid himself on Tyria and somehow learned that the White Mantle were trying to revive Lazarus, which he then assumed the form of with the mirror.

Because it's not ever said. It is, however, implied and if you lay out all the things Balthazar does and all the dialogue of Siren's Landing story, the most logical time for Balthazar to obtain the mirror is from his visit into Siren's Landing.

He went there to hide the final aspect of Lazarus, so that his disguise wouldn't be figured out, but he did so without a disguise. This implies, but not states, that Balthazar obtained the mirror while at Siren's Landing otherwise he would have went there under said disguise already.

It's one of ArenaNet's "shown not told" but it is shown rather poorly that most people aren't gonna figure it out without scrutinizing the text. Especially since Kormir implies Balthazar was always under disguise from when he entered Tyria - which wouldn't make sense if he went to Siren's Landing without a disguise.

Of course there is plot hole in this because the Eye of Janthir was apparently following Balthazar's movements in Siren's Landing. But the Eye of Janthir was in Bastion of the Penitent until around Episode 4's time where it left with Saul's death. But Balthazar was being tailed by Marjory at that time and under disguise so that timeline just doesn't match up...

 

So either Dagonet was highly misleading or blatant timeline plothole.

[Ellye.9123]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:03 AM, Dami.5046 said:

 The Charr destroy Ascalon but 250 years later thats ok, let's be friends? No i don't buy it.

Sure, why not?

How many times have this happened in the real world, as an example? A couple hundred times at the very least, I'd wager.

Germany is a core part of the EU and we haven't even gone 100 years after WW2.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Ellye.9123

[Laken.9018]

Basically  the handling of Lazarus and Mursaat including  in the process not visiting the Isle of Janthir and kinda trying to soften the Mursaat as a whole.

Getting rid of the Human Gods after reintroducing them as was easier to do so.

Basically throwing away everything that was set up for Cantha.

Theres a point seen made about how the game became more character driven and kind agree with that. Later Tyria feels a lot less...logical in its world design.
Think why like HOT areas so much. They actually feel real and reflect what the aim was.