tainted bolts (harbinger shroud autos) not reflectable, bug or intended?

[Khalisto.5780]

as title says

[Abyssisis.3971]

It’s not a projectile so it’s not reflectable.

[Downstate.4697]

Whats weird is they arent considered projectiles and yet magnetic aura blocks them.

[Zoser.7245]

Intended. They are not projectiles like the Bolts from Mesmer's scepter or orbs from its Staff, guardian scepter orbs, etc.

17 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Whats weird is they arent considered projectiles and yet magnetic aura blocks them.

In that case then the bug must be in the Magnetic Aura. Report it in the bug section and in game support option. I have not tested it but i'll do and report it if it's bugged for me.

There are a lot of things to fix, i have found several bugs that affect the harbinger and the necromancer, also overlooked grand master traits for the new specialization.  I already reported all them.   As we have a big balance upcoming, with luck, they'll fix them for the next big balance patch.  Although bugs should be fixed at any time as they are no tied to balance patches.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Zoser.7245

[Shao.7236]

Probably bug, I can deny all of harbingers attacks with Field of the Mists and Dome of the Mists.

[Downstate.4697]

23 minutes ago, Zoser.7245 said:

Intended. They are not projectiles like the Bolts from Mesmer's scepter or orbs from its Staff, guardian scepter orbs, etc.

In that case then the bug must be in the Magnetic Aura. Report it in the bug section and in game support option. I have not tested it but i'll do and report it if it's bugged for me.

There are a lot of things to fix, i have found several bugs that affect the harbinger and the necromancer, also overlooked grand master traits for the new specialization.  I already reported all them.   As we have a big balance upcoming, with luck, they'll fix them for the next big balance patch.  Although bugs should be fixed at any time as they are no tied to balance patches.

Id rather it be a projectile so necro players have to think

[Zoser.7245]

I've seen tainted bolts pass through most shields in other game modes, so I'm pretty sure they're not projectiles. Regardless, it's something to look at and, based on their design, make them work consistently across all game modes and skills. It's pretty clear that they rushed the new specializations and there are still many bugs and other things to fix.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Zoser.7245

[Abyssisis.3971]

43 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Whats weird is they arent considered projectiles and yet magnetic aura blocks them.

Does mag aura block core nerco shroud 1?

[Sahne.6950]

10 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Does mag aura block core nerco shroud 1?

yup. it even reflects them.

Harbinger 1 is just blocked but not reflected.

[Abyssisis.3971]

34 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

yup. it even reflects them.

Harbinger 1 is just blocked but not reflected.

Seems to me like mag aura is bugged then if it’s reflecting/blocking non projectile attacks.

[Sahne.6950]

49 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Seems to me like mag aura is bugged then if it’s reflecting/blocking non projectile attacks.

okey first of all. Why should tainted bolts NOT be a projectile? looks pretty projectiley to me 😄

Tainted Bolts

Fire quick bolts of dark energy that explode on impact, inflicting torment to enemies in the area.

 

Damage (2x): 1760.33

 

Torment (3 sec): 48 Damage; 95 Damage if Foe is Stationary

 

Number of Targets: 5

 

Radius: 120

 

Range: 900

 

 

Fire bolts..... 900 Range....explode on impact.....    why on earth would they not be considered as projectiles!?!?  BOLTS that is a projectile for sure. The explosion is not a projectile, so if it hits something outside of the reflect and you are close enough you can get damage. But the bolt itself should be blockable AND reflectable.

And even if it is officially not considered a projectile... why is magaura the thing that is bugged here? it works just fine on everything else since... idk YEARS. mayyyybe the "no-projectile-projectiles" from the NEW spec are actually bugged instead of the thing that is working flawlessly since years. lul But that doesnt really matter anyways.

I am gonna say it: When Harbingers projectiles are no longer considered a projectile and can no longer be blocked... it would be unbalanced AF. It is in a pretty good spot as is, and i actually think the projectiles should be reflectable ,because... they are projectiles! The bug here is that they are not reflectable.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Abyssisis.3971]

53 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

okey first of all. Why should tainted bolts NOT be a projectile? looks pretty projectiley to me 😄

Tainted Bolts

Fire quick bolts of dark energy that explode on impact, inflicting torment to enemies in the area.

 

Damage (2x): 1760.33

 

Torment (3 sec): 48 Damage; 95 Damage if Foe is Stationary

 

Number of Targets: 5

 

Radius: 120

 

Range: 900

 

 

Fire bolts..... 900 Range....explode on impact.....    why on earth would they not be considered as projectiles!?!?  BOLTS that is a projectile for sure. The explosion is not a projectile, so if it hits something outside of the reflect and you are close enough you can get damage. But the bolt itself should be blockable AND reflectable.

And even if it is officially not considered a projectile... why is magaura the thing that is bugged here? it works just fine on everything else since... idk YEARS. mayyyybe the "no-projectile-projectiles" from the NEW spec are actually bugged instead of the thing that is working flawlessly since years. lul But that doesnt really matter anyways.

I am gonna say it: When Harbingers projectiles are no longer considered a projectile and can no longer be blocked... it would be unbalanced AF. It is in a pretty good spot as is, and i actually think the projectiles should be reflectable ,because... they are projectiles! The bug here is that they are not reflectable.

The interaction between mag aura and said skills is bugged, whichever is at fault needs to be fixed.

My personal opinion is that tainted bolt and dark barrage should be a projectile and reflectable/blocked by appropriate abilities.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Abyssisis.3971

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

The interaction between mag aura and said skills is bugged, whichever is at fault needs to be fixed.

My personal opinion is that tainted bolt and dark barrage should be a projectile and reflectable/blocked by appropriate abilities.

agreed. 😃

[Vinny.7260]

Strange enough, there are certain skills that CAN reflect Harbinger Shroud's Tainted Bolts.

 

Feedback on Mesmer and Valiant Bulwark (Tome of Courage skill 3.) But even then... It's somewhat inconsistent when it does.

[Amadeus.5687]

I feel I have to go test it 2morrow to make sure its allwys, but Untamed Enveloping Haze + Juveline siege turtles bubble both destroy the auto attacks 

[Heika.5403]

I'm pretty sure that they are not projectiles. It's an autoattack. And from my knowledge, all the autottacks in this game that are projectiles are also combo finishers: projectile. And that is not the case here.

Anyways the skills must work equally in all games modes, so this is a case that must be tested, reported and watch what decisions the developers make.  I imagine that they will fix those skills that are actually reflecting/bloking  them when they should not.  But in the case that, for some  reason, they decide to change them to projectiles, then they should be combo finishers too with all the consequences.  And not only "Tainted Bolts", "Dark Barrage" share the same energy ammunition and should be also a combo finisher if the make them projectiles.  At least, in my opinion. And obviously depending of what they decide, it could be a game changer, even a meta changer for several game modes.

In my case, i like the pistol as my main weapon for my harbinger/necromancer, the single weapon i really enjoy from necromancer lol (and the shroud), but i also value a lot to have Tainted Bolts mainly but also Dark Barrage as non-projectile ranged sources of damage when shields/auras/walls... are up.  So making any of them  reflectable projectiles will make me stop playing the Harbinger.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Heika.5403

[Kuya.6495]

3 hours ago, Heika.5403 said:

I'm pretty sure that they are not projectiles. It's an autoattack. And from my knowledge, all the autottacks in this game that are projectiles are also combo finishers: projectile. And that is not the case here.

Anyways the skills must work equally in all games modes, so this is a case that must be tested, reported and watch what decisions the developers make.  I imagine that they will fix those skills that are actually reflecting/bloking  them when they should not.  But in the case that, for some  reason, they decide to change them to projectiles, then they should be combo finishers too with all the consequences.  And not only "Tainted Bolts", "Dark Barrage" share the same energy ammunition and should be also a combo finisher if the make them projectiles.  At least, in my opinion. And obviously depending of what they decide, it could be a game changer, even a meta changer for several game modes.

In my case, i like the pistol as my main weapon for my harbinger/necromancer, the single weapon i really enjoy from necromancer lol (and the shroud), but i also value a lot to have Tainted Bolts mainly but also Dark Barrage as non-projectile ranged sources of damage when shields/auras/walls... are up.  So making any of them  reflectable projectiles will make me stop playing the Harbinger.

Core necro shroud 1 is also a projectile that can be reflected but is not a combo finisher.

Other projectile auto attacks that have no combo finishers:

1.Ele fire and water dagger 1 also can be reflected but have no projectile finishers.

2. Scepter 1 on guardian

3. Water scepter on ele

4. Scepter on mes

5. Staff on guardian

6. Fire and water staff on ele

Edited May 13, 2022 by Kuya.6495

[Heika.5403]

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Core necro shroud 1 is also a projectile that can be reflected but is not a combo finisher.

Other projectile auto attacks that have no combo finishers:

1.Ele fire and water dagger 1 also can be reflected but have no projectile finishers.

2. Scepter 1 on guardian

3. Water scepter on ele

4. Scepter on mes

5. Staff on guardian

6. Fire and water staff on ele

I forgot about the shroud 1 of the core necromancer. If all those skills you mention are projectiles, then i see a problem.  From those skills you mention, only  core necro shroud 1 and  Ele fire dagger can be considered projectiles for me by definition/tooltip and only because they pierces,  and "Pierces" is a line area of effect property of some projectile attacks, according to the wiki.

I believe that Arenanet should update the tooltips to make it clear which skills in the game have projectiles or not. Yes, of all the skills that have projectiles in the game. So you can predict their behaviour when you read their definition/tooltip.  If you don't have it clear by definition and later in the tests you also see that against some skills they work in one way and against others in a different way. Then there is no consistency or way to play with confidence, prevent what will happen when you use them and know if what you are watching is a bug or not. Its definition and behavior should be clear to the player before using the skill for the first time.

I'm going to test Tainted Bolts and Dark Barrage with some friends when we have time, like other players seems that will do too and report to the developers what we discover. Then wait and watch if they make some updates or changes .

Edited May 13, 2022 by Heika.5403

[Sahne.6950]

7 hours ago, Heika.5403 said:

So making any of them  reflectable projectiles will make me stop playing the Harbinger.

thank god! One less Garbinger!

believe that Arenanet should update the tooltips to make it clear which skills in the game have projectiles or not.

 I posted the Skill.. to me its is 100% clear that its a projectile. I dont get where the "Taintedbolts is not a projectile is coming from" ..

GUYS!!  Fire Bolts......900 Range......Explode on impact......   There is no way on earth that this is not a projectile....

Edited May 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Amadeus.5687]

14 hours ago, Amadeus.5687 said:

I feel I have to go test it 2morrow to make sure its allwys, but Untamed Enveloping Haze + Juveline siege turtles bubble both destroy the auto attacks 

Yeah both of these skills destroy the bolts from Tainted Bolts.
Edit: Whirling Defence also reflects them. 
Are you sure they aren't reflected?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Amadeus.5687

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:12 PM, Abyssisis.3971 said:

The interaction between mag aura and said skills is bugged, whichever is at fault needs to be fixed.

My personal opinion is that tainted bolt and dark barrage should be a projectile and reflectable/blocked by appropriate abilities.

It's not just magnetic aura; a bunch of other interactions are iffy. It gets blocked as if it was a projectile, but the reflects are not always there.
Traited distortion gives reflect, but projectiles from the AA DO NOT get reflected, same with Mirror, which blocks the attack (so I assume it's a projectile) without reflecting it back.
Traited shield on war should reflect projectiles, but projectiles from harbinger's AA do not get reflected (there's another thread here); however other reflects (like Feedback) work properly and send the bolts back to the necro as they should. I may test it with mesmer's traited focus (if I had to bet, I'd say focus4 will reflect properly and focus5 won't) but it's currently clear that harbinger's shroud AA
1) Is a projectile (cuz it get blocked by everything that blocks only projectiles)
2) As such it should get reflected (as Feedback correctly does)
3) Most of the times the reflect doesn't happen (as Mirror and Magnetic Aura should do, but don't)

Edited May 13, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Can my shield mastery warrior please reflect the garbinger trash? Thanks!

[shion.2084]

My whirling hammer 2 on engi looks to be reflecting harbinger green bolts.... visually anyway.

[SlayerXX.7138]

13 hours ago, Heika.5403 said:

I'm pretty sure that they are not projectiles. It's an autoattack. And from my knowledge, all the autottacks in this game that are projectiles are also combo finishers: projectile. And that is not the case here.

Specter scepter is another class that has projectiles with out finishers.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Bolt it even calls it a projectile.

It seems certain that tainted BOLTS are projectiles in line with other ranged non finisher abilities and Anet just kittened up somewhere down the line.  It would be pretty weird if Pistol necro is the class that introduces ranged melee to the game. The explode in impact effect probably kittens with their code.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Heika.5403]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

thank god! One less Garbinger!

believe that Arenanet should update the tooltips to make it clear which skills in the game have projectiles or not.

 I posted the Skill.. to me its is 100% clear that its a projectile. I dont get where the "Taintedbolts is not a projectile is coming from" ..

GUYS!!  Fire Bolts......900 Range......Explode on impact......   There is no way on earth that this is not a projectile....

I'm not tied to any profession, so no problem for me. Poor players with mains. 

Thank god one less Harbinger!  Wellcome Willbender/Guard army. We are legion!  Battlefield is blue now. 👊

Anyways i doubt that my Harbinger will me missed out there. My PvP play time is as small and spare as the number of  PvP players in GW2. Or yes, as each lose with only few cats playing is a big one. 🤣

Edited May 13, 2022 by Heika.5403