4th Expansion villain idea, yay or nay...

[Fenom.9457]

On 5/19/2022 at 7:36 AM, Zebulous.2934 said:

Actually, since they sorta skipped over amber tech, Let her use that.  Yellow orange is a more bearable color for me.  Besides I am also tired of Fluorescent green, fire, and ice themes.

Allowing a competent villain to use bloodstone could be nice, red/purple/pink isn't a bad color theme.

I agree amber related plots would be cool and I LOVE bloodstone red yes please!

 

but - I have to say we have NOT had too much fluorescent/electric green, it was almost nowhere before end of dragons. Take this from someone who WANTS it, electric green is by far my favorite color. I am actively seeking it out. There’s plenty in the new maps but essentially zero beforehand. Whereas Fire and ice, yeah I mean I’m not tired of them quite yet but there’s a ton - especially fire. Balthazar, forged, destroyers, I feel like there’s more I’m forgetting 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 8/13/2022 at 7:42 PM, Labjax.2465 said:

How bout something like: mordremoth had more success with those pods than first thought and turns out, there's an evil Zoija running around. Real Zoija gets wind of it, so now she has to come back into action to help you take down evil Zoija and confronts her demons in the process, giving closure to her arc as a character (which right now seems very abrupt and unfinished).

I'd rather they use Kuda, the implied daughter of Kudu, Zojja's nemesis, as the closure to Zojja's character arc.

And if Kuda is Kudu's daughter, that gives Kuda a personal reason to cause strife for Zojja, and with Kuda continuing Kudu's works gives Zojja a personal reason to cause strife for Kuda. So the plot can have Zojja as either the aggressor or the reactor.

[Kalavier.1097]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:25 PM, Fenom.9457 said:

I agree amber related plots would be cool and I LOVE bloodstone red yes please!

We do know Amber cores were used to power stuff before Jade-tech. At the very least, lamps.

[Fipmip.7219]

interesting thread about what colour the next arc is gonna be...

[DarcShriek.5829]

In my opinion, the commander is nearly a god.  Why not make the next villian a crazed Lyssa.

[Logos.3042]

Instead of a big baddie, I’d rather see a journey of exploration to a new unknown area of the map. It could focus on old ancient secrets and localized battles or disruptions.

 

then Anet could focus on balance passes on old weapons and traits and wvw  and pvp instead of massive expansion sink

[Rysdude.3824]

Id like to see us wage war against Jenna

[Kalavier.1097]

12 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

In my opinion, the commander is nearly a god.  Why not make the next villian a crazed Lyssa.

Besides the fact the Commander is nowhere close to a god lol?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

13 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

In my opinion, the commander is nearly a god.  Why not make the next villian a crazed Lyssa.

Firmly disagree. Even during the temporary state at the end of End of Dragons, the Commander is more of a very powerful dragon champion - a bit higher than Tequatl or the Great Destroyer - than a god.

Even Balthazar, a god-turned-demigod, wiped the floor with the Commander when they weren't aided by a divine sword, blind fire from an Elder Dragon, and an Elder Dragon scion using protective magic.

[Mara.6782]

Two possible villains that i think can be next big bad  

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overseer_Kuda 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Isgarren

Spoiler

Inquest are only ones left. Fire legion is now our ally, Son of svanir lost jormag powers and their leader. Centaurs lost their leader, no more white mantle, Joko is dead. Nightmare Court seems to be neutral for now.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Mara.6782
more Info

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

8 hours ago, Mara.6782 said:

Two possible villains that i think can be next big bad  

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overseer_Kuda 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Isgarren

  Hide contents

Inquest are only ones left. Fire legion is now our ally, Son of svanir lost jormag powers and their leader. Centaurs lost their leader, no more white mantle, Joko is dead. Nightmare Court seems to be neutral for now.

 

Centaurs can still be a plot as they had plans for a centaur plot in IBS, but had to scrap it due to EoD and turning the second half into Champions checklist storyline.

Nightmare Court were only neutral during Mordremoth, since it was a major threat to them, and now that the Elder Dragons are gone who knows how they - and Nightmare - will act. Could easily be a plot alongside the other two loose ends of sylvari: what is the Dream/Nightmare, and where is Malyck.

Then there's the Foefire and Magdaer...

So five core plot points remains.

[anninke.7469]

I'd like to get a story (with something about Malyck and Laranthir) where the Pale Tree and the Sylvari finally "grow-up" and accept that the Nightmare indeed is a part of the Dream and as such should be acknoledged and handled with care instead of ignored and "untreated". Also the no-return-from-the-Nightmare nonsense could be dealt with (yeah, yeah, headcanon, but this has been kittening me off for years, so let me dream, please).

[EMPI.4013]

Ahh so many potential avenues to go down. Personally I want a villain that has a world conquering goal who originates from the other side of the world. Maybe a villain who has some personality qualities of a certain someone from ww2. Although Bangar kinda was that. Maybe bring Bangar back.

I wouldn't mind if we became the bad guy. Where we maybe get possessed or something, and go around wreaking havoc on everyone. It would allow us to personally kill certain characters we hate. Like maybe strangling the small ones and shanking the bigger one.

I also want to find out who made the gods. Maybe they're gonna be the next villain. Where maybe they rebuilt/made Balthazar, Abbadon and freed Dhuum.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

13 hours ago, anninke.7469 said:

I'd like to get a story (with something about Malyck and Laranthir) where the Pale Tree and the Sylvari finally "grow-up" and accept that the Nightmare indeed is a part of the Dream and as such should be acknoledged and handled with care instead of ignored and "untreated". Also the no-return-from-the-Nightmare nonsense could be dealt with (yeah, yeah, headcanon, but this has been kittening me off for years, so let me dream, please).

I don't see how the Nightmare, who brutally kidnaps and tortures people, burns down villages, and commits other horrible atrocities, can ever be "accepted" by a civilized society.

1 hour ago, EMPI.4013 said:

I also want to find out who made the gods. Maybe they're gonna be the next villain. Where maybe they rebuilt/made Balthazar, Abbadon and freed Dhuum.

Who says the gods were MADE by anyone? They, like Soo-Won, could just be naturally forming entities.

[maxwelgm.4315]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:19 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I don't see how the Nightmare, who brutally kidnaps and tortures people, burns down villages, and commits other horrible atrocities, can ever be "accepted" by a civilized society.

Who says the gods were MADE by anyone? They, like Soo-Won, could just be naturally forming entities.

It is true that the gods can be naturally forming entities (we have very little knowledge of how a being like Dhuum would ever come to exist, for instance). 

 

However, at least in the case of Abbadon, we know for a fact that he "ascended" much like Kormir herself, by obtaining power from an older, unknown god (The Apostate - Guild Wars Wiki (GWW) ). While we know very little of the human gods, let alone the relationships they have among each other (which one "ascended" first, or if some of them even simply emerged from the Mists unlike Abbadon), I think it's a good assumption that most of them probably didn't emerge like Soo Won and rather obtained their powers from other eldritch beings. I'd personally like not to dwell on that part of the story by directly facing the human gods, it would be boring IMO, but maybe finding more about the previous human world and why it was destroyed by facing the very beings whose power the current human gods absorbed would be a bit more interesting.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 8/26/2022 at 2:19 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Who says the gods were MADE by anyone? They, like Soo-Won, could just be naturally forming entities.

Who says that Soo-Won is naturally forming? Maybe she came from another world, like the Six did, and created Tyria. She never mentions her own origins, just the other five Elder Dragons' origins.

[Teratus.2859]

Honestly i'm just hoping for something Demonic in nature, this Horror in the Depths I really want to be some kind of high level Demon creature.

The other big bad I want to see in Gw2 is Menzies.
I do not believe he is dead nor even defeated in the eternal war and with Balthazar gone and his realm diminished of soldiers because of the Forged, Menzies will eventually take over the Fissure of Woe and likely set his sights on other places to conquer.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Who says that Soo-Won is naturally forming? Maybe she came from another world, like the Six did, and created Tyria. She never mentions her own origins, just the other five Elder Dragons' origins.

Until lore comes out saying, or even implying, shes from another world, or that something else created her, she didn't, and wasn't. That's how canon works in any series.

That being said, her dialogue when talking about the creation of the other Elder Dragons mentions that, when she made them, she thought "I don't have to be alone anymore." If she came from another planet, or had a distinct creator, she would've had anything else on the planet she came from, or her creator, and thus wouldn't "have to be alone".

This also ties into her dialogue about the dragonvoid. She mentions life itself didn't exist until she made the other Elder Dragons, because the void kept consuming everything. It wasn't until they were made, and brought some balance to magic, that the world began to form around them, and other life was possible.

Her backstory excludes the idea of coming from somewhere else, or having a creator. If they could exist when void consumed all of everything, why did she need to bring balance to it when life had already evolved/formed to exist in that environment?

Getting into more real world topics, if Anet wanted to imply she came from elsewhere, or had a creator, they would have had her mention/suggest it. Just like they had dropped hints that the Elder Dragons came from somewhere, and that the cycle that we know wasn't always in place, with Kralk mentioning "mother" at the end of LWS4, and Jormag mentioning the pre-cycle days back in IBS.

There very likely was other eldritch creator-like beings in far flung places of the Mists back when Soo-Won came about. But her exact dialogue indicates she was the process of spontaneous creation, that nothing else existed alongside her in her region of the Mists, and that she was the source of all other life in this part of the universe/Mists

Edited August 29, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

8 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

It is true that the gods can be naturally forming entities (we have very little knowledge of how a being like Dhuum would ever come to exist, for instance). 

 

However, at least in the case of Abbadon, we know for a fact that he "ascended" much like Kormir herself, by obtaining power from an older, unknown god (The Apostate - Guild Wars Wiki (GWW) ). While we know very little of the human gods, let alone the relationships they have among each other (which one "ascended" first, or if some of them even simply emerged from the Mists unlike Abbadon), I think it's a good assumption that most of them probably didn't emerge like Soo Won and rather obtained their powers from other eldritch beings. I'd personally like not to dwell on that part of the story by directly facing the human gods, it would be boring IMO, but maybe finding more about the previous human world and why it was destroyed by facing the very beings whose power the current human gods absorbed would be a bit more interesting.

Sure, but by that process none of the gods we know were "made", they were all inherited across untold ages as beings rose up against older eldritch beings, and took their power. Like Grenth did to Dhuum, or Abbadon did to his predecessor, or Kormir did to Abbadon.

Its possible the primordial gods of millions, or perhaps billions, or years ago had a creator. Or one of them was naturally forming, while the others were created. Like how Soo-Won formed, and then created the other Elder Dragons. But that would be so disconnected from anything going on, or related to, Tyria that I would be surprised if Anet goes into any high detail about it.

Finding out more about what happened to the previous human homeworld would be interesting. My current big bets are

• Some sort of war between the gods destroyed it(Balthazar was said to be carrying the head of his father into Tyria, but we don't know if this was in triumph, or loss)
• There's some giant "Burning Legion"-like army of Mist Demon monsters out there destroying worlds for whatever reason(weird demon-like monsters, implied to be from deeper in the Mists, have shown up once or twice, and some people[baselessly mind you] think the Harbinger of Woe from the fractals, and his body texture showing a planet cracking may be connected to the loss of the human homeworld )
• The world had its own "dragonvoid"-like issue due to magic imbalance, but the gods couldn't figure out how to stop it so they fled with humanity to another world(If it happened in Tyira why would other places not need proper magic balance to not get consumed?)
• Humanity had a big "holy war" with itself, and destroyed the planet in the ensuing war. The gods taking the faithful to Tyira(pretty common trope, and could mirror a possible modern religious schism as people learn more about how the gods abandoned them to the Elder Dragons)

Edited August 29, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Kulvar.1239]

There's a whole planet to explore where we could find no technology at all with pockets of emerging civilizations.

With the elder dragons weirdely concentrated around the known world, it's possible that's were the biggest leylines were. With weak leylines around the rest of the world, communicators may be useless. Simply setting an asura gate could be a challenge of exploration.

[Tails.9372]

The next "big bad" mainly depends on the theme of the expansion: 

If it's the Depths of Tyria then a "venture into the unknown" type expansion with Kuda and the Inquesest as the main antagonists would make the most sense as both they and Rata Sum would have an interest to retake the old Asuran homelands with the later ones already having stated their intention on doing so.

It could also be "the monster of the depths" which caused the Krait and the Quaggans to flee from their homes but TBH that's more something I would expect to be the main antagonist for the next LW season as things rising up as a result of Soo-Won's death is pretty much the aftermath of EoD.

Ofc. there is always the "something is coming from the mists" option but I would prefer for the story to not go into "world ending threats" anymore, at least not for the foreseeable future.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Until lore comes out saying, or even implying, shes from another world, or that something else created her, she didn't, and wasn't. That's how canon works in any series.

Until lore comes out saying, or even implying, that she spontaneously came into existence from nothingness, she didn't, and wasn't. That's how canon works in any series.

 

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

That being said, her dialogue when talking about the creation of the other Elder Dragons mentions that, when she made them, she thought "I don't have to be alone anymore." If she came from another planet, or had a distinct creator, she would've had anything else on the planet she came from, or her creator, and thus wouldn't "have to be alone".

Counterargument: The fact that she was lonely before other beings existed implies that she had a point of comparison - a point where she wasn't alone - and thus created her children and mortals because she knew what it was like to not be alone and wanted to go back to such days.

I'd point to Plato's Allegory of the Cave. If Soo-Won never knew anyone else other than her, then she would be like the people in the cave, who only knew of the shadows on the wall. They had no point of comparison, and only knew of those shadows on the wall and nothing more. They had no drive to learn more or experience more, because they didn't know more existed. If Soo-Won was the only being in existence her entire life, then she wouldn't feel lonely because she wouldn't know the very idea of not being lonely existed.

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

This also ties into her dialogue about the dragonvoid. She mentions life itself didn't exist until she made the other Elder Dragons, because the void kept consuming everything. It wasn't until they were made, and brought some balance to magic, that the world began to form around them, and other life was possible.

Sure, but this is restricted to Tyria, which wasn't the point of origin of the multiverse nor is it its center. If Void consumed everything, then how did Soo-Won come into existence, and how did other planets such as the one the Six Gods, humanity, and Forgotten come from?

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Getting into more real world topics, if Anet wanted to imply she came from elsewhere, or had a creator, they would have had her mention/suggest it.

The inverse is also true - if they wanted to imply she was created spontaneously from nothing, then they would have mentioned or suggested it. They kept her origin a complete blank, with zero details about it, so that they can decide later. This is pretty par the course, especially since Season 4 worldbuilding had turned into very soft worldbuilding with a focus on character over, well, the lore of the world.

The fact is that Soo-Won only talks about the origin of the world and its inhabitants, not herself.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Until lore comes out saying, or even implying, that she spontaneously came into existence from nothingness, she didn't, and wasn't. That's how canon works in any series.

This is a nice try, but fundamentally fails as a counter of the argument. Burden of proof lies on those making a claim. In this case, that she came from somewhere despite her own origin story saying nothing existed, or could exist, before her, because of the void consuming everything. At least in the part of the Mists she came from.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Counterargument: The fact that she was lonely before other beings existed implies that she had a point of comparison - a point where she wasn't alone - and thus created her children and mortals because she knew what it was like to not be alone and wanted to go back to such days.

I'd point to Plato's Allegory of the Cave. If Soo-Won never knew anyone else other than her, then she would be like the people in the cave, who only knew of the shadows on the wall. They had no point of comparison, and only knew of those shadows on the wall and nothing more. They had no drive to learn more or experience more, because they didn't know more existed. If Soo-Won was the only being in existence her entire life, then she wouldn't feel lonely because she wouldn't know the very idea of not being lonely existed.

This isn't what Plato's Allegory of the Cave even relates to. The cave allegory related to learned knowledge, facts. I.E. knowing only of the cave shadows, and nothing beyond that.

Loneliness isn't a factoid to learn, or be in ignorance of. Its an intrinsic aspect of biology. For example, there are people who feel alone their entire lives, and still know they feel alone despite never not knowing what being not alone feels like. Despite having no point of relation to compare to, they are still able to feel, and recognize, what loneliness is because its intrinsic emotion of biological creatures.

This argument not only shows a fundamental misunderstanding of a classical allegory, but also of basic biology.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Sure, but this is restricted to Tyria, which wasn't the point of origin of the multiverse nor is it its center. If Void consumed everything, then how did Soo-Won come into existence, and how did other planets such as the one the Six Gods, humanity, and Forgotten come from?

Same way Soo-Won was able to exist by the end of End of Dragons, despite being taken over, and becoming an avatar for, the void. She's naturally able to survive fundamental forces of chaotic entropy. Same way the other Elder Dragons were able to survive after she made them, but before magic stabilized.

Also, I already covered this near the end of my post, which you ohh so conveniently didn't reply to.

6 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

There very likely was other eldritch creator-like beings in far flung places of the Mists back when Soo-Won came about. But her exact dialogue indicates she was the process of spontaneous creation, that nothing else existed alongside her in her region of the Mists, and that she was the source of all other life in this part of the universe/Mists

I very clearly established that the whole Dragonvoid/Soo-Won thing could have only applied to this specific region of the universe.

And like, you could easily apply this sort of logic to real world mythology. If God created the universe, how did he exist in the pure nothingness before space and time?

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The inverse is also true - if they wanted to imply she was created spontaneously from nothing, then they would have mentioned or suggested it. They kept her origin a complete blank, with zero details about it, so that they can decide later. This is pretty par the course, especially since Season 4 worldbuilding had turned into very soft worldbuilding with a focus on character over, well, the lore of the world.

The fact is that Soo-Won only talks about the origin of the world and its inhabitants, not herself.

This argument fails because its based on the idea that things need to be explicitly said to be made canon, and that implied conclusions don't count. This isn't how writing works in any medium. When you have a story where the characters point blank say that

• Before Soo-Won came about everything was void
• Void is a combination of all magics, and is inherently unsurvivable to life as we know it
• Life only exists because Soo-Won made the other Elder Dragons, which allowed them to bring the void under some measure of control
• Soo-Won herself states she was alone before she made the other Elder Dragons

You inherently create a backstory of nothing existing before her, her coming out of nothingness, and thus creating a backstory for her. You don't need to point blank repeat state the obvious thats already been stated by all the other facts put together.

They don't have to state the sky is blue because of the way light bends through the atmosphere on Tyria either.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Pyriel.4370]

Spoiler

Perhaps a war with the rest of the human gods and they drag Tyria into it? Not all of them are going to be happy that Balthazar was killed and effectively fed to two Elder Dragons.
 

Could have Lyssa return and mess up world politics and perhaps lead to an Empress being deposed or take her place?

 

Grenth could start messing with resurrection leading to certain people not being able to be revived and other less savoury people coming back. Could have a main character die and not be able to be revived. Logan perhaps? 

 

Dwayna could easily be the “too pure and lawful” type of villain.

 

Melandru would be potentially be absolutely horrid to the Canthans and Asura (any technological groups) for their “perversions of nature”. 
 

Kormir could be stripped of her power and arrive near death as a warning. Could have the story to revive Abaddon to help us as an enemy of my enemy situation. 

 

Asura would be interested from a magical study point, the charr have a large kitten bone to pick with human gods, for Norn, what is a bigger hunt than a God? Sylvari could bring an interesting parallel of being former minions vs devotees of the human gods. 
 

Could open up the mists a bit more as well as introduce us to the wider lands of Tyria because I can imagine they went all over when they first arrived. 
 

Could easily get multiple xpacs and living world seasons out of that. 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Pyriel.4370

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

  Hide contents

Grenth could start messing with resurrection leading to certain people not being able to be revived and other less savoury people coming back. Could have a main character die and not be able to be revived. Logan perhaps?

 

GW2 doesn't actually have "Resurrection", what we do ingame to other players is more akin to resuscitating.  Aside from the Commander that one specific time in PoF and supposedly Aurene thanks to her taking Joko's power, there are have been no resurrections for a supposedly heal-turned Grenth to mess with, that's why the likes of Eir and Snaff stayed dead.  Allowing bad people to come back of course is a separate issue.