Roll back Feb 2020 to save pvp.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yes lets bring back 4k warrior dodge rolls, 10k soulbeast longbow autos, herald having 5 skills that take half your health, teef being unstoppable again/ deaths judgement oneshots, make holo a walking howitzer again etc. you're living in a nostalgic meme dream.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

yes lets bring back 4k warrior dodge rolls, 10k soulbeast longbow autos, herald having 5 skills that take half your health, teef being unstoppable again/ deaths judgement oneshots, make holo a walking howitzer again etc. you're living in a nostalgic meme dream.

No to +10k autos, but sure, give me the rest of that.

[lotus.5672]

41 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No to +10k autos, but sure, give me the rest of that.

Same tbh

[Myror.7521]

I dont get why peoples still saying that fullcounter is op, like bruh you can ezy peasy evade to trigger it simply by not hit in it. If your too bad to brake up skills that would trigger fc its not the mechanics fault its yours. I see that the whole mechanic is simply a hard counter to all guards and also of course all guys that smash buttons and time nothing good.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

19 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

I dont get why peoples still saying that fullcounter is op, like bruh you can ezy peasy evade to trigger it simply by not hit in it. If your too bad to brake up skills that would trigger fc its not the mechanics fault its yours. I see that the whole mechanic is simply a hard counter to all guards and also of course all guys that smash buttons and time nothing good.

The only reason why it's not "op" is because it doesn't deal damage, beside that it's actually broken skill that can be spammed at will whenever available and gain benefits 99% of times.
Your so called "counter" works on below average Spellbreaker, anything with brain will trigger it 99% of times and you will get hit.

[Myror.7521]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 you call it broken i call it hardest noob punish mechnic in the game.^^

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 you call it broken i call it hardest noob punish mechnic in the game.^^

Now now, stow weapon is a maneuver that not everyone has mastered.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:12 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

They dont need to roll everything back, ttk is better than it was before. Anet just needs to follow up with sustain nerfs and then buff useless weapons, traits, and skills. There is no reason why they cant except that they just dont care.

They did don't remember ?  They removed all def amulets and nerfed heal heavily because people couldn't kill each other(at least only very slowly)

This is a clear sign they overnerfed it

 

Because the problems with HoT and Pof were not so much about straight up dmg but mechanics which the old specs have/had no counter also Arena.NET already nerfed those mechanics in PvP already a lot

 

Especially PoF was heavily tailored for PvP/WvW with HFB , Scourge , Spellbreaker and for PvP Weaver , Holo , Mirage , Soulbeast each of those specs had at least one new aspect which let them dominate over HoT or Vanilla  specs

 

The problem is to truly solve this not only you would need to nerf PoF specs but also buff HoT and core (and EoD which way ever) in the sense that they also get munition systems(not a fan of) , barrier , boon corruption or crit rate trait.

 

To coming back around what does it when you nerf meachnics, dmg and heal ?

The game is a lot slower and the class mechanics are out of focus for most people less fun.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Lord of the Fire.6870

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

38 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 you call it broken i call it hardest noob punish mechnic in the game.^^

 

27 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Now now, stow weapon is a maneuver that not everyone has mastered.

I see, you guys don't understand how that skill works and what is capable of.
Stow Weapon only works if FC was casted for no reason beside gaining extra second, otherwise your counter doesn't work.
Try again.

[Myror.7521]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 wtf are you talking about? you could broke up your skills by stow weapon or simply weapon sweap to bait the counter. Also im playing for now 10 years warr (or against it) so sure im know what im talking about xD

 

EDIT: Or you simply evade it or just blind it. There are just many ways to evade getting hit by it lmao

Edited May 18, 2022 by Pati.2438

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

You think unkillable sidenode Spellbreaker with 8k unblockable evade spam with 2 Scourge stacking barrier and 2 firebrand of which one is support and the other symbol spam node wide any better?

   No, but that was that way at PoF release, 4.5 years ago; when the damage nerf hit 2 years ago a lot of those specs were already toned down, and after the cut both Spellbreaker and Firebrand started their path to become deleted from PvP 

   At the begining of 2020 we had more build variety than today (and for build variety I mean builds being competitive at MATs). Last week Anet even nuked DH and core Engineer, two builds with 0 presence in the meta.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 wtf are you talking about? you could broke up your skills by stow weapon or simply weapon sweap to bait the counter. Also im playing for now 10 years warr (or against it) so sure im know what im talking about xD

 

EDIT: Or you simply evade it or just blind it. There are just many ways to evade getting hit by it lmao

Or corrupt the stab into fear if playing Necro, or daze through it with thief...

 

Seriously...

[Shao.7236]

9 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   No, but that was that way at PoF release, 4.5 years ago; when the damage nerf hit 2 years ago a lot of those specs were already toned down, and after the cut both Spellbreaker and Firebrand started their path to become deleted from PvP 

   At the begining of 2020 we had more build variety than today (and for build variety I mean builds being competitive at MATs). Last week Anet even nuked DH and core Engineer, two builds with 0 presence in the meta.

They were still relevant. Its up to anet fixing past nerfs, I expect much of the same for my own profession.

 

Presence in meta is irrelevant. Build can be good in its own way and be bad at conquest.

[Kuma.1503]

Feb 2020 brought us some positive changes like the Explosives and Corruption traitline reworks. 

Those were two steps in the right direction because those are two satisfying and well desgined triaitlines. They need to do more of that with the other underperforming traitlines. Defense, Tools, and Acrobatics to name a few. 

Things that absolutely need to be rolled back:

• Boon duration nerfs
• Expertise nerfs
• Amulet removals
• Trade-offs™ 
• 300 Sec CDS
• CC Damage nerfs

I put my reasoning for each in the quote below to prevent this from getting too long. 

Quote

 

I'll go over my reasoning for each and try to keep things brief. (No promises)

Boons

Boon Duration nerfs were good on paper. Boons were a massive issue before the patch. It wasn't uncommon to see an entire team running around with perma 25 might, swiftness, fury, regen, swiftness, prot, stability... 

It was nuts. Bringing that down was the right move, but they did it in all the wrong ways. 

Boon Duration is a tuning level that you can use to balance boon-based builds. It's a stat that you can force builds of this archetype to invest in, creating a stat trade-off that you have to pay to access those boons. 

By removing these stats and nerfing boons accross the board you force every class to rely on what their boons are at base. If you play a class with good base boon durations (Guardian) you get those boons for free. You don't have to pay a stat tax. There's no difference between a boon-based guardian and a selfish dps guardian in terms of boon output. This leads to situations where  some builds feel like they do too much with too little investment. 

Expertise

The previous argument for boons applies to expertise. A power build is going to spit out just as much weakness, chill, immob, poison, ect. as a condi build. 

I made a more in depth post about this. 

Amulet Removals

Previous arguments about concentration and expertise still apply. 

Removing toughness amulets was also a mistake. Take a step back and examined what happened:

1. Toughness amulets go away.
2. Certain builds become too strong and blow people up (Nade Holo, Renegade, Reaper, ect.)
3. Those builds get nerfed. The game, and consequently duelists are balanced around the removal of toughness.

Which means, to be as tanky as that other duelist you don't have to invest into those toughness amulets like Knights. The current tankiest amulets are Avatar/Sage, they're the only two (besides the laughably nerfed paladin's) that contain two defensie stats.   

Consider for a moment what happens when: 

A. Boon duration is removed from the equation, so every build has max boon output with no stat investment

B. The bunkers are running healing power amulets. 

and 

C. High toughness amulets are removed and bunkers are able to achieve close to max durability without investing into toughness. 

If your Avatar/Sage bunker happens to... incidentally also apply boons and AoE healing...

You have a support. 

THIS is why we had the whole issue where Supports were simultanously bunkers and bunkers were simultaneously supports. This is why Anet felt the need to remove mender's amulet because bunkers were running it and supporting their team while being too tanky to take down. 

This problem was created out of the community and Anet's desire to remove everything seen as a problem. It just created a much larger problem down the road. 

Trade-Offs

These are good in theory, but the way Anet handled them is terrible. 

If want elite specs to feel like they have trade-offs don't arbitrarily code in some random nerf and call it a day. Whether it's Scrappers -180 vitality, Mirage losing a dodge, Druid having 20% weaker pets, ect. This is just lazy design. 

Create the trade-offs either within the skills themselves, or in the opportunity cost of taking the core traitline over an elite. 

Ranger, Necro, and Guardian do this well. You have to justify taking an elite traitline over core, because the core traitlines are GOOD. The core weapons and utilities are GOOD. Running an elite weapon or utility over a core weapon is a deliberate choice. This creates much more meaninful and satisfying trade-offs than... whatever Mirage is. 

300 sec CDs / CC Damage nerfs

I don't need to get into these again, and I've yet to meet anyone who defends either of these changes. 

Mission: Keep things Brief - FAILED

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[JTGuevara.9018]

Roll back Feb 2020 WARRIOR to save pvp

 

There! Fixed it for ya.

[Gundam Style.8495]

20 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Roll back Feb 2020 WARRIOR to save pvp

 

There! Fixed it for ya.

I'm not advocating for a single class, everyone should have a meta presence. 36 specs, 9 professions should be used in the semis and possibly partially in the finals of a MAT regularly. 9 professions should be in the meta, that is only 25% of the builds. By play time and by participation in ranked and performance in tourneys, if this was the case, the game would be a drastically different place. Half the specs should be meta. The rest should be off meta in the right hands.

 

This would only be the starting point. It feels nice to choose something else regularly and still have success based on my skill and not the class and build. By that, I mean they all feel good and perform good. It blows my mind that some of the classes are F1, and few are nascar, and the rest are carpool.

[jsp.6912]

pof was terrible

every meta in pof were awful

 

the only good moment in pvp gw2 was mid hot when every class were good(just dh was meh but decent)

[Downstate.4697]

You all realize rolling back warrior doesnt solve any of its problems? Youre just asking for more damage

[Stand The Wall.6987]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

I see, you guys don't understand how that skill works and what is capable of.
Stow Weapon only works if FC was casted for no reason beside gaining extra second, otherwise your counter doesn't work.
Try again.

don't bother, when people wanna argue about obvious mechanics they have no intention of getting to the truth.

[Myror.7521]

@Stand The Wall.6987 so i gues you never even touch the mechanic arent you? Cause yes he is right that mechanic could be random activated but at the same time its just easy to evade, blind, Interrupt, dodge heck you even could Fake your skills to let him use it for nothingness. It could be the most effektive e-spec mechanic in pvp if used right but it could also be the badest since it get like all this counter play things against it. So well everyone that think its too op should not even think about playing pvp lmao

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Fun fact:

The opposite of "power creep" is "power seep"

 

Power Seep; just like Power Creep, is also a made up redditor word used to describe the decrease in overall power level of new or reworked content. It has the same exact effect as power creep in that it limits build diversity, only power seep works in the opposite way.

Power creep pigeonholes players into playing the newest, strongest build as content gets updated and released stronger than the old.

Power seep forces players into playing the least nerfed options if newer content doesn’t prove to be as effective as the things they already have. Or if it gets straight up deleted like it sometimes does here in sPvP.

 

The EoD beta test and all the people on the forums saying "I will not be buying EoD" in that time are a great example of power seep.

[Poledra Val.1490]

The only way for pvp to have any sort of attraction to a player is to create content for it. I dont even remember the last time Anet released content specifically that has to do with PvP, its literally been years. Im not including pvp legendary armor or trinket in this because that only caused a minor interest.

Here is the bottom line, no new content no incentive to play pvp, its that simple.

Hell they dont even bother making new titles or even rotate the old ones in and out every other season. Something that simple and its not happening. Just something, anything to help grow the population.

PvP specific Balance updates should be a given and should not be counted as new content.

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Poledra Val.1490

[FarmBotXD.1430]

9 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Have you ever gone back to a game you quit just because they rolled a patch back? If a balance shift is all it takes for you to leave, you were already on your way out, and you are not going to check back to see if the game has "returned to its lost way".

Also what is "bring back diversity" doing next to "undo the feb 2020 changes". The oneshot meta gatekept most of the possible combos out of sPvP. After the big nuke, all kinds of builds sprung up because the oneshot roamers were no longer a threat. All the amulet removals that came in 2020 and 2021 were the lazy and cynical balance attempts of the devs to curb these overperforming combos.
If we give back 40% damage to power bursts, we're right back into that hellhole where the only viable builds are oneshotters and those which can ward off said oneshots with a panick-button.

 

And one final problem: a significant part of the game was designed/redesigned after the 2020 february patch. Where do you roll EoD specs back into? Or do you just give them 40% more damage and lower cooldowns? Willbender with 40% more damage, are you sure you want this?

If you want to save PvP we need something new. The old ones aren't coming back, you have to attract new players. Unless a-net starts building something, this joke of a gamemode will remain irrelevant. 

hard disagree, most of the " diversity " that came after feb patch was anet kittening up a blanket nerf.
so you had a choice of a lot of different builds that anet didnt nerf as hard as anything else, the " diversity "
got carried by poorly implemented patch, kitten like birds 2shoting people, nades 1shoting made ANY engi/ranger build technically viable.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

1 hour ago, Poledra Val.1490 said:

The only way for pvp to have any sort of attraction to a player is to create content for it. I dont even remember the last time Anet released content specifically that has to do with PvP, its literally been years. Im not including pvp legendary armor or trinket in this because that only caused a minor interest.

Here is the bottom line, no new content no incentive to play pvp, its that simple.

Hell they dont even bother making new titles or even rotate the old ones in and out every other season. Something that simple and its not happening. Just something, anything to help grow the population.

PvP specific Balance updates should be a given and should not be counted as new content.

 

They even removed one of the incentives for pvp by giving everyone a free legendary amulet.
They could give ANY legendary utility item, wonder why its the amulet of all things, XD.

[Crab Fear.8623]

9 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

yes lets bring back 4k warrior dodge rolls, 10k soulbeast longbow autos, herald having 5 skills that take half your health, teef being unstoppable again/ deaths judgement oneshots, make holo a walking howitzer again etc. you're living in a nostalgic meme dream.

 

there was another monster before 2020.

 

dont you want IT to come back?