LGBTQ...

[Kuma.1503]

I recall one NPC converstaion between two male Charr in Grothmar Valley. 

Don't remember the exact words, but it went something like:

 

Charr 1: I could use some fun of the nighttime variety. 

Charr 2: Same. You can tell a lot about what someone is into by the weapons they carry. 

Char 1. [Gutteral Voice] ... Nice Axe.

[Tom.8029]

Also, one thing I thought of.  By failing to show any indication of gender, sexual identity, or sexual orientation, we create a world where everyone is assumed to be heterosexual and cisgender. The only other way to tell otherwise would be to either cater to stereotypes and thereby invoke assumption or to disclose it plain and simple.  As a result, the only positive way to bring awareness is to include it. Failing to include it only favors cisgender and heterosexual people and furthers the notion that these things are far off and bizarre.  

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

On 7/26/2022 at 11:49 AM, greedywholesome.9081 said:

I'd like to see more  male to male relationships.

Definitely 🙂 

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

12 hours ago, Tom.8029 said:

Also, one thing I thought of.  By failing to show any indication of gender, sexual identity, or sexual orientation, we create a world where everyone is assumed to be heterosexual and cisgender. The only other way to tell otherwise would be to either cater to stereotypes and thereby invoke assumption or to disclose it plain and simple.  As a result, the only positive way to bring awareness is to include it. Failing to include it only favors cisgender and heterosexual people and furthers the notion that these things are far off and bizarre.  

Totally agree! 

[Ashen.2907]

On 7/27/2022 at 9:23 PM, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

That's because it's just starting to develop, it's gotten about as much focus as Kas and Jory in early stages too. It's better to give it time to develop than forcing it in. 

Still, ten years in and not a single major character male same sex, nor hetero, relationship explored but multiple same sex female relationships with massive time and development devoted. I am not against the investment in lesbian relationships, I am for representation, something that GW2 is severely lacking.

[Ashen.2907]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:31 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Outside of two supporting characters, the majority of relationships portrayed in the game are straight, including a "relationship" that is either heralded or blamed for the vast majority of events since Edge of Destiny. The lore is literally built around a heterosexual romance (even if seemingly one-sided).

 

The effects of the Jenna/Logan romance on this game are as far reaching as those of Jim Raynor and Kerrigan from Starcraft, for better or for worse (mostly worse?).

As for there mostly only being female-female relationships amoung the gays, that's a valid critique.

Logan and Jenna is as much of a relationship as is my crush on Sigourney Weaver. One person crushing on another is not a devoted relationship. A relationship is a mutual thing. And, there are zero hetero relationships between major characters portrayed or developed to and significant degree, if at all, in game.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Kalavier.1097]

46 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Logan and Jenna is as much of a relationship as is my crush on Sigourney Weaver. One person crushing on another is not a devoted relationship. A relationship is a mutual thing.

Logan and Jennah were in a relationship that they could not actually fill because of politics. They cared for each other, but "broke up" because of the fact they couldn't actually be together.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Logan and Jennah were in a relationship that they could not actually fill because of politics. They cared for each other, but "broke up" because of the fact they couldn't actually be together.

Except for the Season 3 retcon where Jennah never actually cared for each other and were finally in a position to get together...

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 7/26/2022 at 12:49 PM, greedywholesome.9081 said:

It's great that we have same sex NPCs but most seem to scew to lesbionic relationships. What's behind that?

Anet too woke ironically. They put to many woman as leads. There just aren't enough unbound male in the cast to form a meaningful male on male relationship in the main story. But hey some death gay captain got a shout out during the eod Story, so there is that.

  

On 7/27/2022 at 7:09 AM, Tom.8029 said:

So, if there are no relationships at all (gay, lesbian, heterosexual), I really just think it will be ignoring a major facet of people’s lives. I’m sure even fictional, fantasy people would form romantic relationships. Now, if you only display “normal” relationships (heterosexual) you’re really only catering to the majority of players that are straight.  For the non-heterosexual people playing, you’ll just be forcing the idea that their love is unacceptable, weird, and unnatural.  I hear straight people say all the time how they see one gay couple and claim they’re getting their gay lifestyle shoved down their throats. But the reality is that, that’s how non-heterosexual people feel every day.  
 

Also, the reality is that people made this game and people play this game.  Regardless of whether this world is fantasy or not, it was made by and is played by real people.  You cannot separate people from politics, gender, sex, and the like.  People have biases and see the world through those biases.   While making gay relationships more prominent in video games may seem unnecessarily political, ignoring them and not including them is still political.   These things cannot be separated.  And they SHOULD be included to improve people’s awareness. 

Taxes are highly political, you may be surprised i didn't fill out a single tax form in gw2 to this day! We somehow made it also without disturbing the wealth so tyra poorest don't have to life below the poverty line. I don't think the word poverty line was uttered once. ARE WE DENIEING THE SUFFERING OF THE POOR?!!
Just because something wasn't included doesn't mean it is excluded. If the lack of confirmation is interpreted as proof of hostility people gonna have a bad time.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

41 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Anet too woke ironically. They put to many woman as leads. There just aren't enough unbound male in the cast to form a meaningful male on male relationship in the main story. But hey some death gay captain got a shout out during the eod Story, so there is that.

  

Taxes are highly political, you may be surprised i didn't fill out a single tax form in gw2 to this day! We somehow made it also without disturbing the wealth so tyra poorest don't have to life below the poverty line. I don't think the word poverty line was uttered once. ARE WE DENIEING THE SUFFERING OF THE POOR?!!
Just because something wasn't included doesn't mean it is excluded. If the lack of confirmation is interpreted as proof of hostility people gonna have a bad time.

This first paragraph is just very strange?

 

The reason lesbians are so prevalent in gay media has nothing to do with what you said, its because society (mostly men) prefer to watch lesbians because they find it easier to digest. Its seen as the "good kind of gay", when its really just another form of anti-queerness portrayed as being deceptively supportive.

 

This is extremely well known and even documented by some game devs in the past 20 years.

 

Its not hard to understand: Gay men like men, but straight men don't like men (except as role models like action heroes), even though straight men do like women, even gay women.

 

This phenomenon can even be seen in game: The number of men who chose a Norn male to look handsome and rugged is far exceeded by the number of men who chose a Human female to look cute and sexy. Human female (10% of the available races/genders) turnout was over 60%of the population at meta events like TD  last I heard, and the devs have talked about it in the past too in relation to certain business decisions.

 

In video games especially, straight men prefer women, prefer to be women, and prefer to see women. This isn't always the case, but its been shown to be a significant majority over time.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The reason lesbians are so prevalent in gay media has nothing to do with what you said, its because society (mostly men) prefer to watch lesbians because they find it easier to digest. Its seen as the "good kind of gay",

Generally the truth. But in this specific case no. With what is we are given there are just not enough single male characters. Logan simps for his queen. Rytlock has had a child. Gorrik gonna get it with taimi probably. Soo? Braham interacted with who besides Taimi and his mother? Our favorite Playboy billionaire genius gambler vine boy was the longest time the lapdog of the Humans spymaster and hangs out right now with the chick from the living world. Non of the male EOD characters interact with each other. Even the engineer dude who I would vote most likley to be gay has to, in a cruel twist of fate, share his meta event with a chick. I guess in Rylands wargang had 2 mal charr who had the chance to get it on. But they were so forgettable i don't even know if there were 2 Dudes.

Sure from a fanfiction perspective there are barley enough Dudes here to make A parring. But from a story writer perspective there aren't many important character to make a parring without the story having to bend to make it possible. 

If the sky pirate would have been a dude. Canach could be sitting right now with his Pirate boyfriend in a Pile of money/coke making sweet sweet manly love after being freed from his female overlord. The story wouldn't have to bend an inch for that to happen.

But right now with the cast at hand, is there one organic gay parring you can make?

Edited July 29, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Kalavier.1097]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Except for the Season 3 retcon where Jennah never actually cared for each other and were finally in a position to get together...

Besides that is merely one way to read the situation and it assumes only a singular group would oppose it politically.

[Zola.6197]

16 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

But right now with the cast at hand, is there one organic parring you can make?

“Organic” is a matter of time, and that has to be built up. They are clearly building up to something between Taimi and Gorrik. The started off as colleagues in S4, and their relationship has organically evolved since then. Like… anything can be “organic” if the writers plant the seed and cultivate it. I can think of several currently non-romantic relationships I could see transforming over time. Clearly romance was not a priority the last several years, as even Marjory and Kasmeer barely had screen time together since S2 which was a LONG time ago. We know the studio was in a state of chaos for a while, and the pacing of the story has often been hurdling from one disaster to another with little time to examine interpersonal relationships (even pre-established ones).

 

EoDs planted way more romantic threads than any story release since the personal story imo, which had several minor (and mostly tragic) love stories. EoDs sets up Taimi and Gorrik as a budding relationship, shows romantic tension between Rama and Min, hints there may have been something between Mai Trin and Joon (even if unrequited), and they finally brought Kasmeer and Jory’s relationship out of limbo. There are probably more examples I’m forgetting, but these are all relationships I believe we’ll see in the future.

 

Not to mention Logan is dating a mystery woman according to Icebrood Saga, and Rox has a boyfriend back in the Olmakhan village as stated in the EoDs epilogue. As for Braham, he did crush on a norn girl named Ottilia that strung him along back in S1, but she was virtually cut out of the retelling beyond 1 reference. I think it would be interesting if they met again post-EoDs. Maybe they’ve both grown and changed, and something new strikes up between them? Anyway, he’s been far too busy since then dealing with various traumas for a romantic subplot to make any sense. As of now, I could also see them developing something between Myrun Skialkin and Braham as they work through his PTSD, but there’s no evidence that’ll happen. I do suspect Myrun will become a reoccurring character in the future, however.

 

Canach is a bit of an enigma, but there was a draft of HoTs where he had a crush on Malyck from the personal story (who was slated to return for that expansion once upon a time). That expansion sadly suffered from heavy cuts/rewriting.

 

Hopefully the studio is entering an era of greater stability though. Maybe that way we’ll get to see the seeds they’ve set up develop to fruition now that it appears to be a greater focus to grow these characters and their relationships.

 

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Except for the Season 3 retcon where Jennah never actually cared for each other and were finally in a position to get together...

I still feel this is a very surface level reading of a situation that’s clearly intended to have more nuance. Regardless, I do hope they get back to Jennah and Logan’s lives, even separately. I wanna know who Logan is dating, and getting an update on DR politics would be interesting post-S3. Maybe we’ll see some if the world leaders meet with the Empress in the next story release.

 

I’m getting off topic though.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

7 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

This first paragraph is just very strange?

 

The reason lesbians are so prevalent in gay media has nothing to do with what you said, its because society (mostly men) prefer to watch lesbians because they find it easier to digest. Its seen as the "good kind of gay", when its really just another form of anti-queerness portrayed as being deceptively supportive.

 

This is extremely well known and even documented by some game devs in the past 20 years.

 

Its not hard to understand: Gay men like men, but straight men don't like men (except as role models like action heroes), even though straight men do like women, even gay women.

 

This phenomenon can even be seen in game: The number of men who chose a Norn male to look handsome and rugged is far exceeded by the number of men who chose a Human female to look cute and sexy. Human female (10% of the available races/genders) turnout was over 60%of the population at meta events like TD  last I heard, and the devs have talked about it in the past too in relation to certain business decisions.

 

In video games especially, straight men prefer women, prefer to be women, and prefer to see women. This isn't always the case, but its been shown to be a significant majority over time.

Wow, your thing almost makes it sound like having and adhering to  heterosexual attractions is a form of discrimination.  Almost, mind you.

Edited July 30, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Tazer.2157]

Its all a numbers game at this point. Whos next on the list? 

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

9 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Wow, your thing almost makes it sound like having and adhering to  heterosexual attractions is a form of discrimination.  Almost, mind you.

The way I read it it's very far from "almost" making it sound like that. 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

two points:

1) considering that lgbtq... people are roughly 1% of the population, they are already overrepresented in the game

2) the 'evil west' is pretty much ok with lgbtq... relationships. The rest of the world on the other hand... pushing that more can be very detrimmental for ANET.

It is not only islamic countries which have problem with that  kind of content, do I have to remind people that Russia bans all kind of 'homosexual propaganda'? Lesbian couples are the 'safest' option in that regard, with plenty of countries who are willing to sent men to prison or even kill, are ok with women-women sexual acts.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:06 AM, greedywholesome.9081 said:

Is there a gw2 LGBTQ discord?  

 

More than one. Here is the Tyria Pride Discord. Mostly centered around the yearly event but it also can work as starting point to explore further and look for a related guild.

https://discord.gg/x2WHuy7W

[Tom.8029]

22 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

Anet too woke ironically. They put to many woman as leads. There just aren't enough unbound male in the cast to form a meaningful male on male relationship in the main story. But hey some death gay captain got a shout out during the eod Story, so there is that.

  

Taxes are highly political, you may be surprised i didn't fill out a single tax form in gw2 to this day! We somehow made it also without disturbing the wealth so tyra poorest don't have to life below the poverty line. I don't think the word poverty line was uttered once. ARE WE DENIEING THE SUFFERING OF THE POOR?!!
Just because something wasn't included doesn't mean it is excluded. If the lack of confirmation is interpreted as proof of hostility people gonna have a bad time.

Being impoverished and being non-heterosexual and non-cisgender are not the same thing.   In fact actually, people who are non-heterosexual and non-cisgender are more likely to be impoverished than their heterosexual and cisgender counterparts, if you wanted to go into that. But that’s is a discussion for another day.  
 

Inclusion of gender and sex creates awareness, acceptance, and pride.  Inclusion of… money? Creates greed. Also, there is some poverty representation in New Kaineng as well as in many other areas of the game where we see NPCs living on their own or with a faction outside of cities. 

[bruakumfd.4817]

I should mention that I'm overjoyed for Majory and Kasmeade as much as the next person. However, I've also noticed that when it comes to same sex relationships, those seem to be the only ones taken as a joke. Of course, some people see them as valid, which I agree with. And while I'm bringing up observations, I noticed that the other way around is disgusting. Yes, disgusting because they could just be vibing together, and somebody will find offense.

 

On a more positive note, I love that idea. I would much prefer it over being embroiled in politics or working with 'good people' who make no effort to be nice. Yeah, I don't understand how this isn't mentioned much more, considering fantasy is supposed to be an escape. The people in Ebonhawke are an obvious exception, though. 

 

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

3 hours ago, Tom.8029 said:

Being impoverished and being non-heterosexual and non-cisgender are not the same thing.   In fact actually, people who are non-heterosexual and non-cisgender are more likely to be impoverished than their heterosexual and cisgender counterparts, if you wanted to go into that. But that’s is a discussion for another day.  
 

No i did not want to go into that. The word woke literally triggered any reason out of you guys. I made fun of the statement that the absence of a facet of life in a piece of media equals active hostility or planned erasure of that aspect of life. Because that is just silly.

Anet clearly is in favor of lgbt promotion. They even retro actively made 1 captain gay. The reason there isn't an on screen gay parring is most likely thanks to the too small male cast. Braham who is basically a protagonist has 1 meaningful interaction with another male character over multiple season and expansions. But apparently the real reason is male on male erasure and a fetish for lesbian? From the same writers who ended a whole saga with a lesbian wedding?

3 hours ago, Tom.8029 said:

Inclusion of gender and sex creates awareness, acceptance, and pride.  Inclusion of… money? Creates greed.

What? Why would the mention of taxes and poverty line create greed? Because it is uncomfortable for you? You only can care about the poor as long as they are gay poor?

Anyways I didn't came here to discuss politics. I just found it funny that that their wide cast of females leads, lead them into A situation where there are not enough relevant male characters to form a male on male romance on screen. Proving ones again you cant make everyone happy:).

Edited July 30, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Opopanax.1803]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:20 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

This first paragraph is just very strange?

 

The reason lesbians are so prevalent in gay media has nothing to do with what you said, its because society (mostly men) prefer to watch lesbians because they find it easier to digest. Its seen as the "good kind of gay", when its really just another form of anti-queerness portrayed as being deceptively supportive.

 

This is extremely well known and even documented by some game devs in the past 20 years.

 

Its not hard to understand: Gay men like men, but straight men don't like men (except as role models like action heroes), even though straight men do like women, even gay women.

 

This phenomenon can even be seen in game: The number of men who chose a Norn male to look handsome and rugged is far exceeded by the number of men who chose a Human female to look cute and sexy. Human female (10% of the available races/genders) turnout was over 60%of the population at meta events like TD  last I heard, and the devs have talked about it in the past too in relation to certain business decisions.

 

In video games especially, straight men prefer women, prefer to be women, and prefer to see women. This isn't always the case, but its been shown to be a significant majority over time.

Or because feminism is more popular.

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

I just found it funny that that their wide cast of females leads, lead them into A situation where there are not enough relevant male characters to form a male on male romance on screen. Proving ones again you cant make everyone happy:).

I was to posting this lolz. is when political correctness eat his own tail. The majority of males portrayed in gw2 are too dumb/or comical.

[ugrakarma.9416]

5 hours ago, Tom.8029 said:

Inclusion of gender and sex creates awareness, acceptance, and pride. 

lmao, "social justice" through entertainment industry. or anyone thinks russians will overthrow Putin after play gw2 ?

[Einsof.1457]

Make everyone gay.