Can we do something about bladesworn

[Matthius.9104]

Just now, anbujackson.9564 said:

Shout spam is objectively bad. Its boring to play and terrible to play against. I am not playing PvP but videos I saw were already enough. Thousands of heals with no counterplay, even when cced. 

No one should defend this. You build completely around this and might spam and profit from high damage through high might. But thats just my two cents. They should tune it down and focus on spellbreaker instead.

IF they tune it down it dies to literally anything. There is so much cc / condi spam and with all BS abilities being heavily telegraphed they will get interrupted and could not even play the game. Not to mention the dumptrucks of damage coming out of the ANET favorites.

[anbujackson.9564]

Just now, Matthius.9104 said:

IF they tune it down it dies to literally anything. There is so much cc / condi spam and with all BS abilities being heavily telegraphed they will get interrupted and could not even play the game. Not to mention the dumptrucks of damage coming out of the ANET favorites.

Maybe... But then they need to adress warrior issues instead. And not relying on spam.

[Guirssane.7082]

The infinite circle of "nerf this pls" continues

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Why is this thread a thing?

Bladesworn just isn't a problem. It's fine.

In higher tier play Bladesworn doesn't fair so well. Vaans is the only one in NA who doesn't get trashed by other classes.

You could argue mechanical upsets of how you would or would not like the class to work, but don't say it's OP because it isn't.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Eugchriss.2046]

14 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Why is this thread a thing?

Bladesworn just isn't a problem. It's fine.

In higher tier play Bladesworn doesn't fair so well. Vaans is the only one in NA who doesn't get trashed by other classes.

You could argue mechanical upsets of how you would or would not like the class to work, but don't say it's OP because it isn't.

Because just because it isn't a problem in higher tier doesn't mean that it's not a promblem at all. Higher tier is like 20% of the population at most. Why should we balance according to the minority?

[Zagerus.8675]

The damage is getting out of hand because of Pinnacle of Strength and Great Fortitude. These traits absolutely need to be split for PvP. I was in a match a few days ago and nearly 100-0'd 3 enemies in a 3v1 but *on accident* because all of my splash cleave was critting for 4-5k. Bladesworn needs to be similar to Holo in that when Fury is down pressure needs to be down also. It's not healthy to have warriors running around spamming damage and getting rewarded for it.

In order to keep these traits viable outside of Bladesworn they need a specialization split.

[Khalisto.5780]

17 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Bladesworn is not *the* problem, but it is *part* of the problem.

 

Sustain is the problem. Bunkerish supports/unkillable side noders, most notably Bladesworn, Cata, Tempest, and Specter, are meta, much like core guard and Necro were in the meta of yesteryear. Nerfing BSw won't fix that; it will just open the door for another bunkerish build to take its place.

 

So yes, go ahead and nerf BSw's sustain. But do so while nerfing high-sustain specs across the board and commit to a faster -paced meta.

 

Also, realize that any specs you nerf may need compensatory buffs in other areas so they can remain viable (but in a healthier way).

Yes the good old game of playing what has not been nerfed

 

Remember ppl quickly moving to core ranger owl/tiger cuz the dmg modifiers from those pets were not nerfed

 

Same now

 

Ppl move from wb and hb to cata, bs and spec

 

Next move is virt and untamed

 

Then every single eod spec has received at least one round of nerfs

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*quietly drinking tea*

 

We gonna slay bladesworn then pretend warrior as a whole is fine,  or slay bladesworn and then go "poor warrior it didn't deserve this" after the patch notes because the other specs still garbo?

 

Which version of pain yall got today, forum mob?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Why is this thread a thing?

Bladesworn just isn't a problem. It's fine.

In higher tier play Bladesworn doesn't fair so well. Vaans is the only one in NA who doesn't get trashed by other classes.

You could argue mechanical upsets of how you would or would not like the class to work, but don't say it's OP because it isn't.

 

You know how this works, Trevor.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

33 minutes ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

The damage is getting out of hand because of Pinnacle of Strength and Great Fortitude. These traits absolutely need to be split for PvP. I was in a match a few days ago and nearly 100-0'd 3 enemies in a 3v1 but *on accident* because all of my splash cleave was critting for 4-5k. Bladesworn needs to be similar to Holo in that when Fury is down pressure needs to be down also. It's not healthy to have warriors running around spamming damage and getting rewarded for it.

In order to keep these traits viable outside of Bladesworn they need a specialization split.

Nah, the traits aren't the problem; it's that artillery slash has no CD. Catch someone with 3 straight artillery slashes (if all crit and you have a bunch of might) and you'll ruin their day (and their friends' day if they are standing too close).

 

Put a 1-3s CD on artillery slash to make it a more deliberate, high-impact shot (like, well, an artillery shot).

 

And while they're at it, they should strongly buff blooming fire. It makes no sense that a fast ranged attack like artillery slash hits for 3-4k but a slow, telegraphed, multi -hit melee attack hits for 3.8k with max crit. Shift the focus to trying to set up a skillful melee burst rather than spamming powerful ranged attacks. 

[Rider.6024]

6 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Actually the biggest issue comes from the fact that even if you dodge, the attack is persistent for such a long duration that you somehow end up being hit at the end of dodge. That is the real issue here.

Everyone needs to learn that for vs you must dodge into the attack, sideways or backwards doesnt work, think of it like a wave at the beach

 

The healing from might is a bit overtuned for wvw but compared to other things there its fine, it was already addressed in pvp like 4 or 5 months ago with some tweaks.

 

Lots of people just are not well versed in bs duels but weakness application is a pretty hard counter, things like elixir autos, ranger traits etc shut down bs really easily

[Eugchriss.2046]

12 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

You know how this works, Trevor.

He kitten knows. He also knows that bladesworn is the last rampart before people start coming at untammed. That mf is smart.

[Zagerus.8675]

20 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Nah, the traits aren't the problem; it's that artillery slash has no CD. Catch someone with 3 straight artillery slashes (if all crit and you have a bunch of might) and you'll ruin their day (and their friends' day if they are standing too close).

 

Put a 1-3s CD on artillery slash to make it a more deliberate, high-impact shot (like, well, an artillery shot).

 

And while they're at it, they should strongly buff blooming fire. It makes no sense that a fast ranged attack like artillery slash hits for 3-4k but a slow, telegraphed, multi -hit melee attack hits for 3.8k with max crit. Shift the focus to trying to set up a skillful melee burst rather than spamming powerful ranged attacks. 

I get what you're saying but I think the burst aspect of artillery slash is important to keep in play so that bladesworn's can help secure kills through things like protection/barrier/regen ect. However when every skill across all weapons is chunking off 3-4k crits just for activating them it promotes a playstyle similar to Willbender where you're inclined to be as aggressive as possible. Bladesworn has a ton of synergy with getting those crits and the +5% that was recently added has made it very hard to not crit at all. 

[Shao.7236]

27 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*quietly drinking tea*

 

We gonna slay bladesworn then pretend warrior as a whole is fine,  or slay bladesworn and then go "poor warrior it didn't deserve this" after the patch notes because the other specs still garbo?

 

Which version of pain yall got today, forum mob?

Anet is good at killing things quietly anyway. There was hardly any outrage when they started to take pot shots at Core Rev and now it's dead content, literally gutted Forced Engagement with no context, give a small buffs to Herald nobody is going to notice the rest as you'd know since Core apparently never existed, but it has and always was good enough before then.

6 minutes ago, Rider.6024 said:

Everyone needs to learn that for vs you must dodge into the attack, sideways or backwards doesnt work, think of it like a wave at the beach

So why aren't all skills quirky in their own way like that? This one is obvious, because consistency is something we had until now apparently. This is no excuse, they have to fix it and make it behave like a normal skill.

[Kuma.1503]

6 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Dude, this idea of big damage huge tell just dodge BS has been debunked over and over again but let me explain again why that's BS. 

Having 1-2 huge tell big damage it's ok. You can just dodge as you suggested. The problem starts when there is more than 1-2 huge tell damage skills. You can't dodge them all. So again stop with your perfect sceneris and talk about in real game situations.

You shouldn't be able to dodge everything a class does. Otherwise fights against two competent players would never end. 

Not to mention you're ignoring that any durable build is going to have prot, weakness, blocks, evade frames, invulns, or all of the above (Weaver). 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[ArthurDent.9538]

2 hours ago, Matthius.9104 said:

LMAO how are you having any trouble with BS at all with any form of rev? This is an issue of git gud. Warrior has been terrible forever. You are just upset to get beaten by one. There are better things to complain about. Nobody has a right to complain about anything warrior for the next 5 years. ESPECIALLY if you are a guardian, necro or rev main. (engi too as an honorable mention)

LMAO how are you having trouble with rev on bladesworn, you litterally just run at them spamming your damage skills and you will win the damage trade every single time with vastly higher sustain + damage, if they run for their lives they can't resustain because most of their healing requires interation with opponents while bladesworn can happily spam heals without even worrying about being interrupted due to so much of it being instant cast and nonconditional.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

59 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

He kitten knows. He also knows that bladesworn is the last rampart before people start coming at untammed. That mf is smart.

People in NA know I don't play Untamed at all and I don't care for the specialization.

[Matthius.9104]

1 hour ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

LMAO how are you having trouble with rev on bladesworn, you litterally just run at them spamming your damage skills and you will win the damage trade every single time with vastly higher sustain + damage, if they run for their lives they can't resustain because most of their healing requires interation with opponents while bladesworn can happily spam heals without even worrying about being interrupted due to so much of it being instant cast and nonconditional.

Funny. I NEVER have trouble killing a bladesworn on rev. You mad cuz bad

[Sindrener.1592]

Damage is fine imo, however the sustain you get from shout trait(too much healing without investing healing power for example) is crazy

 

heal thats 20s with 2 charges is also quite bonkers. 
 

start putting heal to 25 or 30s cd and lower the healing from shouts then we can see

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, sentient.2081 said:

Damage is fine imo, however the sustain you get from shout trait(too much healing without investing healing power for example) is crazy

 

heal thats 20s with 2 charges is also quite bonkers. 
 

start putting heal to 25 or 30s cd and lower the healing from shouts then we can see

It's Tactical Reload that is the problem, not Vigorous Shouts itself. Ask yourself if Healbreaker or Healzerker are problems, or even Core Shouts.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Just out of curiousity, what possible buffs could you grant to bladesworn to make it viable(once it cannot facetank everything with shoutspam)? I usually come up with something, but I'm really pulling a blank on this one, after all "just rework the whole thing" isn't a realistic answer. But I'm old and bitter and dumb, how about you young ones?

*adjusts monocle*  Well, since you asked...

 

(Also, I liked your pun about "pulling a blank" on ideas for an ammo-based spec.  Well played!)

 

For Bladesworn specifically, I would bake some defensive utility into gunsaber skills and utilities.  For example:

--Add a 3/4s evade frame to Cyclone Trigger (in addition to its current effects)

--Break step removes movement-impairing conditions

--Flow Stabilizer grants protection instead of Fury

--Replace Electric Fence (dumbest utility on Warrior, and that's saying something).  I propose:
Dragon Shield: Block attacks for 3s  (basically shield stance but on your utility bar).

--Tactical Reload: Reloads ALL ammo for Gunsaber and ONE ammo for Armament skills ONLY (i.e. does NOT recharge shouts or other ammo skills).  CD 40s.

 

The idea here is to provide several forms of active defense in the Bladesworn kit and utilize Tactical Reload to maintain access to them.

 

But something that a lot of people lose sight of is the fact that Warrior, as a profession, has numerous design flaws.  There's a reason (reasons, actually) that Warrior has been out of the meta for the past few years.  But Bladesworn, despite all of its questionable design aspects, has answers for Warrior's most pressing problems, and that's why it's enjoying success while other warrior specs have failed.  Unfortunately, the devs apparently took the shortcut of trying to answer all of Warrior's problems in Bladesworn instead of doing so in ways that would benefit the profession as a whole.   They've also doubled-down on  their "shouts spam is good gameplay" stance, which is....questionable.  

 

I think Warrior would be healthier overall if they focused on making Tactics truly about team support (especially through boons), not selfish healing.  Defense should be the "selfish sustain" line--but it needs some serious love to make it viable.  I think it's fine if Warrior's "thing" is to have ridiculous healing (it doesn't have high protection uptime, double health bars, invulns/distortion, stealth, etc of other classes, so it needs something), but it should come in the form of buffed sustained healing over time (e.g., through Might Makes Right and/or Adrenal Healing) rather through instant-cast shouts.  This should be combined with good access to active defenses like blocks and evade frames.  The idea is to create something that hang in fights due to its healing-over-time potential but needs to utilize its active defenses to avoid getting wiped by a big burst up front.

 

Anyways, that's my two cents.

[MARTIGIN.2136]

Bladesworn is busted, can tank like nobody’s business and still put out 8-10k bursts from ridiculous range that is unblockable as they spam every warrior shout & ammo skill in the game.

Edited August 4, 2022 by MARTIGIN.2136

[Lighter.5631]

lol it's not just tactical reload.

nor is it Vigorous shout which heals little on other specs.

 

it's tactical reload + vigorous shout + bladesworn +10% incoming heal + a crap ton of barrier from ammo

+ Might makes right + Mending might(both self heal when gain might, doubling down on For great justice)

+ having double heal with low cooldown and high heal number.

 

literally every single trait for this build is picked for self heal which sync together.

you could combo might makes right + mending might with core war too.

but there's no +10% incoming heal, nor crazy barrier, heal skill that basically is a double mending and tactical reload basically buff 50% of the shout heal + might makes right + mending might combo.

 

the entire spec capability sucks and easily predictable, just winning by pure out sustaining with heals and face tanking everything. any spec class can win if you literally can out heal everything. there's no counter play nor reactive gameplay with this.

 

and it's just healing alone holding this broken trash garbage spec together so it doesn't break into piece for how bad and unplayable this spec is. without the ridiculous number of self heal, it is pure garbage.

 

literally don't undestand why they would design a class like this, do they think it is fun? just winning by face tanking and out healing everything and doing predictable attacks till enemies out of skills lol.

just the next core necro, but with no rez no utilities no teleport, just pure self heal and kill enemy by out healing everything.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Erasing shoutsworn from the meta would be objectively good for the game.

How about erasing Willbender, Harmbinger, CC spam, Immobilize spam Rangers, Fear spam Necromancers and condition spam first?

Eliminating those things would objectively be even better for the game than murdering the one thing Warrior has.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Sahne.6950]

14 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i was laughed at when i suggested their heal skill was doing too much a while back.

because its not the healskill healing them.... its the shouts.