People throw around the word "endgame" a lot. What is endgame?

[Taclism.2406]

The correct question isnt "what is endgame", but "when is endgame"

It is when you have nothing more useful to do with your gold than buying skins (/crafting legendaries)

Alternatively, endgame is when you have more fun posting on the forum than farming gold

[Hashberry.4510]

Seeing as the game is an elaborate (and fun) scheme to expose eyes to the gem store, we are the endgame.

[Ashen.2907]

Things you do after reaching the level cap.

[Gibson.4036]

It's how you enact a time-heist in order to bring back to life most of the characters that were killed off and defeat the Mad Titan.

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💎💎💎✊💎💎💎

Edited August 4, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[SlayerXX.7138]

44 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

You need basic materials for many legendaries, no? Or you can buy them with gold. So...in that case wouldn't any content that you can get gold from be considered "endgame" ? Just trying to understand. 

Farming in general would be consider Endgame. So would be working towards Legendary.

1 hour ago, Einsof.1457 said:

So open world meta events can be considered endgame?

Yes.

The thing is MMORPGS are really Efficiency and progression driven. So some people will dismiss unprofitable playstyle that don't progress your character as not real endgame. Example: if you do a couple of Expansion HP or champions to challenge yourself most would probably agree that is a form of valid Endgame activity. The same couldn't be said about repeatedly doing Core tyria Hero Points on the same character. Functional the same, but with the lack of challenge and reward people would question the validity of this gameplay loop. Or in other words: Can someone else pls define gameplay.:)

At it's most broad: Everything you do after 80.
At its most undisputable: Instanced content for which you need to be max level, people and gear etc. like Raids for example.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Labjax.2465]

21 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Things you do after reaching the level cap.

I think this sums it up well.

Also, if we look at how a typical single player linear RPG is, such as KOTOR, in those games the leveling is the game. If you reach level cap at all, it will be near the end of the game. Whereas in MMORPGs, you reach the "end of the game" for a linear RPG (max level) and that's usually thought of as when the "real" game starts, while the leveling is often thought of as an introduction to the game's systems. Which may be why the term is "end-game," never really thought about where it comes from until now, but it'd make sense.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[SexyMofo.8923]

End game for me is the gemshop. If it’s not rewarding, it’s not endgame to me.

[Astralporing.1957]

52 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

You need basic materials for many legendaries, no? Or you can buy them with gold. So...in that case wouldn't any content that you can get gold from be considered "endgame" ? Just trying to understand. 

Depends on how widely you consider it, but generally, yes. "Endgame" is a shorthand for the repeatable content that keeps you playing the game. What exactly is endgame depends on the specific MMORPG, but in GW2 specifically you can argue that pretty much most of the game is the endgame. In fact, that was one of the original design goals mentioned by devs ("whole game is endgame" is not something players thought up). The issue you have with people mislabelingit is that some players bring to GW2 their preconceptions from different MMORPGs, where endgame happens to be much more narrow. And even though GW2 is different, they still (wrongly) think the labels from their previous games are somehow universal and mean exactly the same.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

19 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

So...the whole game is endgame. That's what I thought. So why do people say "the endgame" instead of just "the game?" 

Please notice that leveling is not part of that list. This is the core difference between endgame and 'game' activities. Endgame activities are done once you've completed the main game activities involved in leveling.

In older MMOs leveling was a much more time intensive task then in GW2 so there was a much more clear difference between the two of them.

[Hashberry.4510]

There is this weird sort of peer pressure in raiding mmos where players seem to be ashamed of playing the leveling and open world games, hence the rush to endgame. Really a crippling part of human nature.

[Dante.1508]

End Game is standing around in Lions arch looking all shiny and cash shopped up shooting the breeze with others..

[Xerxez.7361]

Endgame is stopping some guy with an oversized glove and some stones from removing half the player population. Oh wrong endgame.

 

Endgame is different for everyone. For me endgame is collecting Achievement Points & Skins. Must unlock everything even if I will never use it!

[Gibson.4036]

16 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

Endgame is stopping some guy with an oversized glove and some stones from removing half the player population. Oh wrong endgame.

💎💎💎✊💎💎💎

 

[Demon Pie.2634]

I'll tell you what Gw2 endgame is: doing all the champion bounties SOLO. It's by far the most difficult fight in the game. Well beyond raids and strike missions.

 

Just you and the boss. No downs, no deaths and no help.

 

You can't say you've mastered a build or a class without having defated a few of these on your own. 

Try it. It's also the most satisfying battle you'll ever have in the game.

 

I've killed all of them solo on top of HoT champs but those are easy (legendary included) except for Matriarch and I used only ONE build to do it. 

 

I will not say what build it is because Anet will nerf it. Whisper me in-game if you wanna know. Hint: it's not the brainless Mechanist or Guradian.

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

22 minutes ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

I'll tell you what Gw2 endgame is: doing all the champion bounties SOLO. It's by far the most difficult fight in the game. Well beyond raids and strike missions.

Does the diffculty of what you can endlessly repeat make one endless thing endgame and another endless thing not endgame?

[Demon Pie.2634]

11 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Does the diffculty of what you can endlessly repeat make one endless thing endgame and another endless thing not endgame?

 

What are you even saying?

 

Of course you can repeat most things in the game endlessly but does that mean everything is endgame?

 

If you choose to do one thing over and over again endlessly for the rest of your GW2 life then yeah I guess you can call it endgame but that's relative only to you. 

 

Regardless of what you choose to do you wouldn't have a GW2 experience without the combat. Soloing champions requires the highest level of combat since you got no healers to res you or a firebrand to tank while you're dealing dps so that's why I say it's the endgame. 

 

You can do whatever else you want and call it endgame that's up to you but objectively nothing is more difficult than killing a boss, who's meant to be killed by a group, on your own. Simple as that.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Demon Pie.2634

[AgentMoore.9453]

22 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Can someone define this concept for me in the context of guild wars 2? Thanks.

ArenaNet defines endgame content as 'stuff you can do once you hit level 80'.

If you use an instant 80 boost and voop to the Silverwastes, this is the wording from the 'are you sure?' window when you opt to confirm the boost:
Journey forth? All of the endgame content in Guild Wars 2 opens before you. Will you take up the challenge? (Confirm/Cancel)

Outside of this, 'endgame' is usually just a term people change the definition of depending on what works best for the argument they're making in a discussion.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

When we have this topic with new players, we usually mean everything post level 80. As you can boost/skip up to that level quickly nowadays, we have a lot of people traveling Endgame who have no clue what they are doing. They have bought the expansions, they want to play the expansions and not the core game. Understandable from a customer perspective, but that is not how RPGs work.

An older approach was to say, everything after Zhaitan's defeat. That does fit a little better, as you pass through a lot of progression and learning to get there. Even if you skip every dialogue there is, you end up at the gates of Arah with a lot of gameplay experience and understanding of the basic mechanics. If this is your first MMORPG ever, you are also familiar with the controls and UI by now. Upon starting LW and the Expansions, you face a serious spike in difficulty, which requires this kind of experience. If you still struggle with how to learn skills, the Mastery system overwhelms you easily. I ran into a lot of people who mixed up both continuously, because they just boosted to level 80.

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In short: When you are capable of playing level 80+ content, both plot and experience wise.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

You can do whatever else you want and call it endgame that's up to you but objectively nothing is more difficult than killing a boss, who's meant to be killed by a group, on your own. Simple as that.

But you told us specifically what the endgame is (and double down on difficulty) and now you say it is just whatever? 

Also I'd say that going 1v50 in WvW and winning the fight is arguably more difficult.

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

 

What are you even saying?

 

 

You can do whatever else you want and call it endgame that's up to you but objectively nothing is more difficult than killing a boss, who's meant to be killed by a group, on your own. Simple as that.

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Does the diffculty of what you can endlessly repeat make one endless thing endgame and another endless thing not endgame?

 

 

The previous poster demonstrates  an example of bringing a flawed thinking process from other mmo into GW2.  Difficulty is not a measure of endgameness in GW2, although the most difficult content will also be one of the ends game activities available.  In GW2 the game is not about doing the most difficult/longest running thing available, it is designed around offering short/mid/long term content with rewards that don't depreciate over time.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

I'll tell you what Gw2 endgame is: doing all the champion bounties SOLO. It's by far the most difficult fight in the game. Well beyond raids and strike missions.

That's your misconception. In reality, difficulty by itself has no bearing whatsoever on whether content is considered endgame or not. Especially self-imposed difficulty is completely unrelated to endgame concept.

[Infinity.2876]

Legies and anything in xpacks.

[Demon Pie.2634]

9 hours ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

 

The previous poster demonstrates  an example of bringing a flawed thinking process from other mmo into GW2.  Difficulty is not a measure of endgameness in GW2, although the most difficult content will also be one of the ends game activities available.  In GW2 the game is not about doing the most difficult/longest running thing available, it is designed around offering short/mid/long term content with rewards that don't depreciate over time.

 

So when other people provided their own concept of endgame that's their choice but when I said what I thought was endgame it's flawed thinking? Lol why because it's not fashion related? 

 

Like I said endgame is whatever you make it but in general when you get to the End of the Game it's the most difficult part.  You may think GW2 lacks progression but it's still a game and there are easy parts and difficult parts and killing champions solo is the most difficult.  It doesn't have to involve rewards or long term/short term goals or whatever. Being able to do it is the reward in itself.  It's not that deep lol

[Bladestrom.6425]

5 hours ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

 

So when other people provided their own concept of endgame that's their choice but when I said what I thought was endgame it's flawed thinking? Lol why because it's not fashion related? 

 

Like I said endgame is whatever you make it but in general when you get to the End of the Game it's the most difficult part.  You may think GW2 lacks progression but it's still a game and there are easy parts and difficult parts and killing champions solo is the most difficult.  It doesn't have to involve rewards or long term/short term goals or whatever. Being able to do it is the reward in itself.  It's not that deep lol

 

I think GW2 has endless horizontal progression channels., my point was simply difficulty is not the driving force of endgame (in GW2) but it is an aspect, whereas in other games it is the core element of end gameplay - get more powerful, kill harder things etc. 

 

Classic example is legendary gear in GW2, they are not difficult to get, but they need commitment over a long time period, which is the primary design intent - long term goals.

 

Going back to OPs original question, the answer is 'almost all content is endgame' because almost all content is viable perpetually to various degrees, where in other games this is not the case. In other games end-game versus non end-game is a very different discussion. Another great example is EVE, also horizontal progression, and end game is also very broad.

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

So when other people provided their own concept of endgame that's their choice but when I said what I thought was endgame it's flawed thinking? Lol why because it's not fashion related? 

When anyone (you included) offers their own concept of what is endgame it is their choice - there's no such thing as official definition of it, after all. Well, beyond developers making the statements like "The whole game is the endgame" of course, but that one should be rather treated as idea, not hard definition. Because, obviously, endgame does not cover literally everything after all. Still, that does not mean someone's ideas can not be flawed. Yours for example is (see below for why).

 

9 hours ago, Demon Pie.2634 said:

Like I said endgame is whatever you make it but in general when you get to the End of the Game it's the most difficult part.  You may think GW2 lacks progression but it's still a game and there are easy parts and difficult parts and killing champions solo is the most difficult.  It doesn't have to involve rewards or long term/short term goals or whatever. Being able to do it is the reward in itself.  It's not that deep lol

That bolded part is (again) where your misconception comes from. You're right that, in general, endgame tends to encompass harder content. You've however mistakenly thought that one is an indication of the other.  Your error here is forgetting about that "in general" part.

Sure, game designers tend to avoid placing most difficult content at the beginning of the game, and, as such, the further you go the overall difficulty tends to rise, but that does not automatically mean that everything at the endgame will be difficult. Or even that most things will. Difficulty is just one of the many factors that are considered. And, depending on the game, often not even a primary one.

So, to summarize: difficult content often is part of endgame. This does not mean however that all (or even most) endgame must be difficult.