Which classes whine the most on the forums?

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Many did like Chrono, Mirage , Malyx Rev, Ventari Vindicator, Minionmancer, Valk Ranger, Boon Ranger, Prot Holo, Scrapper, Mechanist but like the dinosaurs they kinda got extinct and they do share some similarities with Bladesworn. 
I'm not saying don't play it, I'm saying enjoy it while you can. 

Yes you can see the similarities....one nerfed..and people jumpn on the next best thing with enough sustain to kitten you off, a never ending cycle of people crying to nerf the next thing that doesn't instantly die 

[Blackthunder.8679]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

But SpB is just an F2. It maintains the core warrior ability like Zerker. 

BsW on the other hand.. 

In any case, there is no thief in SpB. Mesmer yes. Thief? No. 

SpB should get buffed to punish mindless spam and be a proper counter option, Core should have all it's T2 and T3 effects buffed for a proper roamer that can deal huge damage and not suffer in sustain and Zerker needs to become the melee terror. 

A gated Arc Divider is not much terror.. 

 It's an wannabe thief cause of daggers and then It's just my opinion and opinions, like everyone should know, are like butt holes everyone got one and everyone is free to give them.

[Vancho.8750]

26 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Yes you can see the similarities....one nerfed..and people jumpn on the next best thing with enough sustain to kitten you off, a never ending cycle of people crying to nerf the next thing that doesn't instantly die 

People might have whined about it but you can't deny almost all of the time they were right about it. Some people still have Vietnam Flashbacks from Chrono Or Cele Ele . I personally played Core necro after 2020 for some time, it wasn't much fun for me and it definitely wasn't fun for everyone else, it did get me some wins and half the playerbase kinda disappeared(or more ??), there is no connection at all between the two right???. Bunker Duels are probably the most boring thing in the game and we have AFK farming, people used /dance cause it looked way more fun.
It is not fun to get killed in 2 seconds, but it also not fun watching someone doing PVE healer rotation on a node. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

9 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

(or had before Bladesworn).

This is one of those cudgel wielding scenarios I was talking about. If a class spec has glaring issues, shipping a spec that you mash shouts off cooldown to heal through most incoming damage not only doesn't fix the glaring issues, but provides a shield to justify ignoring them.

Some of us don't want to trade the more reflexive gameplay for healspam, even if the spam comes with high winrate. And after being nerfhammered by people who complained about warrior healspamming before this, being offered what people whined about before, only twice as potent is a hard no for me. 

Quote

"You can't like Bladesworn, because I don't like Bladesworn."

You can like it, I'd imagine Bladesworn for Warriors is like Virtuoso for mesmer mains: a way to play a warrior spec without a bunch of the pain-points that the other specs have.  just accept that:

 a.) Bladesworn being good doesnt fix the issues with Spellbreaker, Core, and Zerker

 b.) Bladesworn being good doesn't make those other issues less important.

 c.) People want to play Spellbreaker, Core and Zerker and are being actively argued against because of the presence of Bladesworn

 d.) some people dont like it for obvious reasons and (c.)

4 hours ago, Blackthunder.8679 said:

It's fun how the doomsayers turned the tide and now only warriors that don't play BsW are true warrior mains. 

Bladesworn mains are warrior mains, but I still think healing through damage/ignoring mechanics to compensate for clunky design has been proven to not good for pvp, and the other specs that other people like still haven't been fixed (despite asking for them to be fixed for years). 

5 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Kinda reminds me of the start of PoF when Mesmer Mains warned that MIrage is garbage, people didn't get why it is bad for the game then PVP got really purple for a while and at some point Mirage got one dodge.

This. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lighter.5631]

recently? warrior

 

but all time? thief/rev

these classes whine even when they are meta for years.

understandable as they need pvp knowledge to actually perform and most people don't have that.

 

i havent been to thief forum for so long, but rev forum was quite a sight

you  have top 25 revs telling everybody how good rev is and get 30 confused and getting told how he doesn't understand rev lol.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:51 AM, Vancho.8750 said:

It is mostly argument between THE WARRIOR MAINS and some Bladesworn bandwagoners being told why Bladesworn is bad for the game on the Warrior sub forum but for some reason it continues here. I find it funny cause it is pure content for the drama .
Kinda reminds me of the start of PoF when Mesmer Mains warned that MIrage is garbage, people didn't get why it is bad for the game then PVP got really purple for a while and at some point Mirage got one dodge.

What's funny to me is the OP is never called out for the obvious instigating thread that this is and instead tries to pass it off as "a joke", but then gets upset that people aren't laughing...? Come on now lmao! (shakes head..)

To my credit, I didn't even feed this obvious trolling attempt except to call out the intent. But whatever...

I suppose I can contribute and try to make this into a somewhat productive thread, I guess...yes the mesmer situation echoes us warriors. I remember the hey-days of condi mirage and I do NOT want those back. When you got mesmers calling it out even then, you know it's bad lmao!

On 8/7/2022 at 9:41 AM, Blackthunder.8679 said:

It's fun how the doomsayers turned the tide and now only warriors that don't play BsW are true warrior mains. 

Well for me any warrior that plays SpB is a wannabe thief.

 

Anyway it's just a funny pole.

"It's just a joke, bro!1!" By the way, it's poll. Also, you're off. SpB is Anet's version of a warrior-mesmer, not thief.

 

[bethekey.8314]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

What's funny to me is the OP is never called out for the obvious instigating thread that this is and instead tries to pass it off as "a joke", but then gets upset that people aren't laughing...? Come on now lmao! (shakes head..)

What?

I think this thread is getting to you a little too much. Maybe take a break?

[JTGuevara.9018]

21 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

What?

I think this thread is getting to you a little too much. Maybe take a break?

I'm good! No worries. Just a neutral observer, is all...

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 8/7/2022 at 12:01 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

SpB already counter mindless spam...given how FC is on a 10s CD and adrenaline can be collected by simply swapping weapons.....it literally blows my mind that people actively think warrior is weak or UP:

By no means I am saying that warrior is some braindead gameplay aka mechanist or harbinger but the class is not remotely close to be the UP/weak sack of kitten as some on this forum would want you to believe

I agree with you when it comes to 1v1 dueling that has nothing to do with holding a node. A great Spellbreaker duelist can eventually kill anything with good counter offensive play.

However in conquest when it comes to holding a node, Spellbreaker can't hold a node because its duel prowess "the only thing its good at" all lies within monkeying around, LOSing off node, playing defensive, and drawing/baiting opponents into bad situations. This is just not good dynamic for conquest node aggression to play against the timer of the match.

Spellbreaker is hard to balance due to this. If it receives adequate node holding power, then it becomes 100% a kite god that can't be killed. If you lower its duel presence to be balanced in general combat, then it sucks at conquest.

I'll leave suggestions of how to properly deal with this discrepancy in balance to the warrior mains. But if you really sit down and evaluate Spellbreaker, what I said here is true.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[JTGuevara.9018]

12 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I agree with you when it comes to 1v1 dueling that has nothing to do with holding a node. A great Spellbreaker duelist can eventually kill anything with good counter offensive play.

However in conquest when it comes to holding a node, Spellbreaker can't hold a node because its duel prowess "the only thing its good at" all lies within monkeying around, LOSing off node, playing defensive, and drawing/baiting opponents into bad situations. This is just not good dynamic for conquest node aggression to play against the timer of the match.

Spellbreaker is hard to balance due to this. If it receives adequate node holding power, then it becomes 100% a kite god that can't be killed. If you lower its duel presence to be balanced in general combat, then it sucks at conquest.

I'll leave suggestions of how to properly deal with this discrepancy in balance to the warrior mains. But if you really sit down and evaluate Spellbreaker, what I said here is true.

I will chime in. That's less of a problem with spellbreaker than it is with conquest, a game mode that FAVORS AoE centric classes. (Yeah, I'm going to freakin' say it..) Because those classes (and they know this..) can just pop off their AoEs on a point knowing that's what the game requires.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I will chime in. That's less of a problem with spellbreaker than it is with conquest, a game mode that FAVORS AoE centric classes. (Yeah, I'm going to freakin' say it..) Because those classes (and they know this..) can just pop off their AoEs on a point knowing that's what the game requires.

Yup

This is also a large reason why Necromancer is ALWAYS meta. Because 90% of what it does on every spec is a big massive fat AoE that is often unblockable, even the defensive skills are massive AoE radius, and the 10% of things that aren't massive AoE are at least channels that ignore anti-projectile fields or line piercing attacks.

This is why Necro has always been alpha team fight presence, because they don't have to aim anything. Very seriously 90% of their important attack skills don't even require targets man ^^ They can just push the button and ignore worrying about a target and it will still hit everything on the node.

[Kuma.1503]

Warriors complain  about being underpowered and their class not functioning. 

Guardians rarely complain

Revenant is favored by the best players and the best players tend to win

Rangers complain the most about Eles

Thieves complain  about bunkers

Engineers complain about their core spec

Necromancers  complain about their class being weak when it's meta

Elementalist complain  about power creep

Mesmers complain about others complaining when they have it so much worse

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Warriors complain  about being underpowered and their class not functioning.

For good reason tbh

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Guardians rarely complain

No reason to complain when you have 2 or 3 meta build structures in every game mode

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Revenant is favored by the best players and the best players tend to win

Agree

And notice how they rarely rarely ever say anything about their class in the forum. This is because they all know this class has been absurdly overpowered in spvp and driven the meta for way too long, and they just hope Arenanet doesn't notice.

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Rangers complain the most about Eles

It's true. Nothing is more annoying than having to kite around and survive against something that is nigh invulnerable to projectile damage as a projectile based class for upwards of 60 seconds before it bottoms out CDs enough to where it is vulnerable enough to "attempt" to deal damage to it.

In all seriousness, Arenanet needs to DIAL-BACK on the amount of anti-projectile that Ele has.

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Thieves complain  about bunkers

Thieves have absolutely nothing to complain about after SA buffs.

It's somehow not being talked about, but Thieves of all types are overperforming right now in the right niche situations when good players know when to implement and use certain builds vs. certain things. When more people figure out to be doing this, it will soon be a problem.

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Engineers complain about their core spec

They always have and it's true. But right now Engi should be complaining about more than that. Honestly they nerfed Mech too much and its EOD spec is just kind of bad now. Those rifle buffs are only super cool in middle tiers.

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Necromancers  complain about their class being weak when it's meta

Necromancers need to sit down. There has never been a meta where Necromancer was not meta.

They can complain about class mechanics but they do not have the right to complain about the strength of the class.

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Elementalist complain  about power creep

Lately they just complain in general when they don't have a spec that is the #1 dominant side node. Fire Weaver stayed side node dominant for waaaay too long and now Ele players feel entitled to having their class be ultra dominant 1v1 on nodes.

19 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Mesmers complain about others complaining when they have it so much worse

Mesmers have strange complaints that I don't fully understand. But as a player who plays against Mesmers, I can say that I am less concerned with how strong the Mesmer is, and more concerned with how I don't like playing against a class design that is 90% invulnerable for the first straight minute you engage it before you can find some kind of opening to deal damage to it. It's just predictable outcome play and obnoxious in every way.

I can't help to think that Mesmer players can't feel too much different. I mean they know in their mind that: "Ok I can predictably survive for about 60s with front loaded invulns/epic evades but when this stuff is on CD, I have to run or I die." I'd imagine they rather have less cheese invulning and more realistic mechanics to be able to actually hold a node and secure kills. The class needs a good focused redesign as of 2022 imo.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[oscuro.9720]

Every class complains the most except my class, which is pure and virtuous and doesn’t complain at all. /s

[Koensol.5860]

6 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I'm good! No worries. Just a neutral observer, is all...

JTGuevara, the GIGA mad warrior main

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Only thing Bladesworn needs attention on is Artillery Slash.

That skill is hitting waaay harder than it says it should be.

Actually read these skills:

1. Long Range Shot - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
2. Artillery Slash - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Those skills should be dealing roughly the same type of damage output but AS hits waaaaay harder than a LRS. Even with Sic Em & One Wolf Pack on, 3x LRS will not down something like a Thief or Mesmer, but 3x direct AS is like a one-burst against squishies.

Pretty sure something is wrong with the listed flat damage & coefficient of AS in the tooltip. And no, it isn't just the might stacks and vuln. Soulbeasts have massive damage multipliers as well, these two attacks should be on par with each other's damage output but AS somehow hits like 3x harder than a LRS.

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

2 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Rangers complain the most about Eles

It's true. Nothing is more annoying than having to kite around and survive against something that is nigh invulnerable to projectile damage as a projectile based class for upwards of 60 seconds before it bottoms out CDs enough to where it is vulnerable enough to "attempt" to deal damage to it.

In all seriousness, Arenanet needs to DIAL-BACK on the amount of anti-projectile that Ele has.

YOOO this is so funny! xD

"rangers complain the most about eles"

 

He agrees, and then starts to complain about Elementalist. 😂  (hes a rangermain)

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Thieves have absolutely nothing to complain about after SA buffs.

It's somehow not being talked about, but Thieves of all types are overperforming right now in the right niche situations when good players know when to implement and use certain builds vs. certain things. When more people figure out to be doing this, it will soon be a problem.

i couldnt agree more!

SA changes have elevated Thief into another dimension.... yet noone seems to talk about this.

Deadeye is pretty much the strongest build you can play currently. it is able to 1v1 everything and still has the benefit (mobility,stealth) of your everyday thief.

 

Celedaredevil is also DISGUSTING!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

17 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

YOOO this is so funny! xD

"rangers complain the most about eles"

 

He agrees, and then starts to complain about Elementalist. 😂  (hes a rangermain)

Yes but this is not a short-sighted complaint post here. I'm being serious.

Ele's level of anti-projectile uptime has reached this critical mass of sorts where they are actually invulnerable to projectile based attacks. I don't mean sort of invulnerable or if an amazing player knows the exact moments to use it, no. The uptime is so high that they can just run a routine cycle like a pve dps rotation and maintain this permanent flow of actual invulnerability vs. projectiles.

If you are running something like a Shortbow/Axe Ranger or a Longbow/Scepter DH, ect ect, double ranged character, you actually "can't" damage an Elementalist if it plays at even a bottom plat level.

With normal GW2 rock/paper/scissor situations, there is always at least a way to counter play the thing that counters you, if you're good enough to pull it off. However with this situation of Ranged Anything vs. Ele, the Ele is simply invulnerable and can't be dealt with in any way other than retreating from it. It automatically wins. You can't even + against it to help deal damage, which is just messed up.

To put it into even better perspective, imagine an Ele of some kind running alongside of keep's walls in wvw. There are 10x ranged classes up on the wall firing at him for nearly 60 seconds, but he can stand point blank range for as long as he wants and actually take no damage whatsoever.

There just needs to be realistic margins of time for projectile based builds to be able to find openings to deal damage to an Ele.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yes but this is not a short-sighted complaint post here. I'm being serious.

Ele's level of anti-projectile uptime has reached this critical mass of sorts where they are actually invulnerable to projectile based attacks. I don't mean sort of invulnerable or if an amazing player knows the exact moments to use it, no. The uptime is so high that they can just run a routine cycle like a pve dps rotation and maintain this permanent flow of actual invulnerability vs. projectiles.

If you are running something like a Shortbow/Axe Ranger or a Longbow/Scepter DH, ect ect, double ranged character, you actually "can't" damage an Elementalist if it plays at even a bottom plat level.

With normal GW2 rock/paper/scissor situations, there is always at least a way to counter play the thing that counters you, if you're good enough to pull it off. However with this situation of Ranged Anything vs. Ele, the Ele is simply invulnerable and can't be dealt with at all. You can't even + against it to help deal damage, which is just messed up.

To put it into even better perspective, magine an Ele of some kind running alongside of keep's walls in wvw. There are 10x ranged classes up on the wall firing at him for nearly 60 seconds, but he can stand point blank range for as long as he wants and actually take no damage whatsoever.

There just needs to be realistic margins of time for projectile based builds to be able to find openings to deal damage to an Ele.

yeah no need in telling me that.^^ i am advocating for "bruisertempest" for quite some time. Cuz given the state of the meta, its pretty dominant especially in conquest.

but i have to tell you that you cant maintain permanent reflects, should you actually try to deal damage.

you can stand there and ALMOST... just almost... maintain permanent reflects/projectilehate. But as soon as your trying to go offensive, you wont be able to maintain it.

Tempest was always able to do that, that is nothing new. But since the introduction of EoD, over 75% of specs are projectilebased, thus it suddenly looks incredibly strong.

But again you can only maintain this high uptime, with repeatedly picking up the earthshield and cycling thru air and earth. The second you kite him away from the earthshield or he tries to go for a offensive move, he can not maintain this ammout of projectilehate.

tldr: tempest can only do this while standing stationary somewhere and not doing anything else besides cycling projectilehate. The second he switches to fire or even dares to overload something else than earth, he will be vulnerable.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[TheQuickFox.3826]

(from downstate) Sad Elementalist noises. 🙄

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Warriors complain  about being underpowered and their class not functioning. 

To be fair, it got to the point where just after EoD release non warrior mains started to ask for warrior buffs. BSW being what it is now is obfuscating all those concerns, but those concerns still exist and are still valid.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

To be fair, it got to the point where just after EoD release non warrior mains started to ask for warrior buffs. BSW being what it is now is obfuscating all those concerns, but those concerns still exist and are still valid.

Yeha cause you are met with:

 

"Just play BsW you 4head! Jajajajaja" 

[Kuma.1503]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

To be fair, it got to the point where just after EoD release non warrior mains started to ask for warrior buffs.

I'm one of those people lol

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I'm one of those people lol

I know, you weren't the only one either.