August 23 Balance Update Preview

[Matoro.9708]

I like these changes, especially to Engineer harpoon gun. I would add that the Throw Mine should be a launch of 0 range, for visual reasons, an IED doesn't make you trip. However, I think we are getting closer to pistol changes! Maybe a few years down the line you'll rework turrets?

[Matoro.9708]

13 hours ago, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

 

 

This 1000% .  If there is no philosophy, then it is just haphazard.  This is what every balance path has always felt like, tweaks here and there with no direction.  Over time this has the caused PvE to suffer but no doubt PvP and WvW as well.  I remember the same thing that there was supposed to be a balance philosophy post.  Once you have a core, foundation to work from them, then everything else flows much easier from there.   

I remember some very early gameplay videos of GW2 and they were talking about the combat, and it felt logical.  You had big slow damage AOEs, you had combo fields, you needed to synergize with your friends to do the maximum damage and effect, you had trade offs etc. 

A core you say? Core engi? Turrets? 
Maybe, unironically, Anet should hire a philosophy major.

[Lily.1935]

So I've been thinking about this. I'm also big on engineer, being my second favorite class. All changes but one I agree with. I know Mechanist is a bit nuts. But Heal Scrapper did nothing wrong!

Quote

Med Kit

• Med Blaster: (PvE only) Healing power multiplier reduced from 0.2 to 0.1, matching PvP and WvW.

This hurts heal Scrapper more than Heal mechanist. Can we just split this to have reduced healing on Mechanist and keep it as is for everything else?

[Bovan.9481]

Alright I've spend the past few days theorycrafting, crunching numbers, and talking to a ton of people to be able to write something down for Revenant and Thief. I'll try not to go into too many details but I usually have the tendency to write more than I should so bear with me. I'm also trying to limit this to weapons only but I have to talk about actual playability issues that is preventing the classes from being played, no matter what buffs they get.

 

Revenant

-For Vindicator as I mentioned in my previous post, the target cap on Eternity's Requiem's hits needs to go up. Currently hits can be eaten up by structures, adds and anything that isn't the raid boss you are trying to kill. It also isn't worth pressing when you are attacking multiple targets simply because it doesn't cleave and you are better off auto-attacking. I strongly believe it needs to hit 3 targets per explosion but at the very least consider making it hit 2 targets.

-Sword and by extension sword/sword could use a little love as well. It's not that strong of a weapon and for Vindicator it's looking like we are going to just ditch the weapon entirely. It would be nice to still allow us to have it on weapon swap for a DPS increase instead of us just sitting on greatsword from here on. I'd welcome some sword buffs and reverting the Reinforced Potency buff instead. Power Alacrity Renegade is already really bad so it wouldn't break that build either.

-Vindicator needs more help. I know it's getting a lot based on this preview, and I'm politely going to say that based on the math I've done and the conversations I snooped around in with other top tier players, this just isn't going to cut it and it will still not keep up with other classes. It also has playability issues with it not being rewarding to play a class that needs to use it's only dodge as soon as it's available to keep up it's DPS. I will mention this in the Thief section as well but please find a way to prevent allies from giving us endurance, and us losing damage because of it. Both Vindicator and Daredevil suffer from the problem where other players can make us lose damage by simply using endurance generating skills.

-I'd like to suggest giving a little love to mace, axe and even staff as well. If mace's power damage were to go up it can be used as a might stacking weapon for support builds. Temportal Rift on axe is an interesting CC skill but it doesn't keep up with offhand Sword. It would be nice for that to be an option. Staff's power damage could use a little bump so CCing doesn't feel that bad when we swap to it. Currently swapping to staff plummets our DPS into the ground.

 

Thief

-Power Daredevil really needs more help. It's still going to be on the lower end of mediocre after these buffs besides for fights with Throw Magnetic Bomb stolen skills. If it's by design that Daredevil is just not strong unless it can steal something specific from that encounter, fine. But also allows us to steal proper and consistent abilities from the new strikes in that case. Currently we just get random abilities and they aren't even the strong raid abilities like Throw Magnetic Bomb and Detonate Plasma. Staff could use some more buffs as well as another thing in my next paragraph.

-Power Daredevil has serious issues with other classes and players giving it endurance. The trait Havoc Specialist gives us a damage bonus for every missing endurance bar, so other people have the ability to kill off as much as 10% of our damage just by them playing their game. Vigor not being consistent is also extremely annoying to deal with. This honestly needs to be adressed at some point because it's been a pain in the back for years. My suggestion is to simply give us a bigger damage modifier per andurance bar that isn't full, but making it only stack 2 times. If it's 10% per bar for a total of 20% it would do wonders for the class.

-Power Deadeye's buffs are very much appreciated and Rifle builds are looking to be in a decent spot. But it still has severe issues with other people stealthing us which makes the entire rotation fall apart. Every mistake has serious consequences when playing with a Malicious Seven based build and it's the only type of build that really works. I can personally live with this but I do want to point out some other playability issues. It's a spec that can't swap targets because of the Deadeye's Mark mechanic, is quite immobile due to the kneeling, is unable to cleave because all your important rifle skills only hit 1 target, and adds bodyblocking your target will make the rotation fall apart. And all of that for an amount of DPS that is below what currently Bladesworn and several Ranger builds are able to do, while cleaving. Deadeye needs to be looked at beyond damage buffs. Some suggestions would be to make all attacks cleave when you have your mark in target and reducing the initative cost of Three-Round Burst so people can recover from mistakes more easily. I understand this won't happen in a weapon update but something to consider for the future.

-Venom nerfs are in my opinion very welcome but I would love to see them reworked so they can't be wasted on adds somehow. Just a little thing on the side. The compensation for the nerfs is however a little strange. The flat condition damage is nice but only buffing the scepter's 1st auto-attack by a small amount is barely going to make a difference. Shadow Shroud's Haunt Shot buff is again just nice but it feels just so minor. Specter does have issues in solo play partially because it cannot cleave very well. May I suggest also buffing Grasping Shadows and Eternal Night in Shadow Shroud a bit alongside it? Maybe taking away the measily scepter buff? Shadow Shroud doesn't feel particularly strong.

-Condi Daredevil's Death Blossom has always been strange. The amount of bleeding and duration could honestly use another pass. It applying a 30 second long bleed with condition duration is honestly just not okay anymore. It takes forever to ramp up to your full damage in high end content and for open world things die long before the buff matters. I would really just double the bleed stacks and half the duration-ish. Say 6 stacks for 8 seconds baseline or 6 stacks for 7 seconds and adding a little damage onto Impaling Lotus for Daredevil.

-Backstab buffs are nice, but is Malicious Backstab from Deadeye also getting a buff? I'm not sure if the intention is for it to be a base Thief, Daredevil and Specter buff but it seems a little odd to leave out Malicious Backstab.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Bovan.9481

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:11 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Please Anet, I find it unbelievable that you bring yourself to buff Hammer on Revenant but not address the buggy mess that it is for it's second skill. Not only is there no sound but the hitbox is dislocated. Please fix it, it's been 2 years and on going now.

Do address Mallyx unbearable weakness to poison as well, the legend is extremely underwhelming in PvP with no way of ever being played properly because of it.

 

Seconded for Mallyx in pvp. I'm sure torment is very lovely in pve. 

Generally, the changes here look well informed and make reasonable attempts. to allow people to not be beat out of groups because they decide to play a particular class. Good work, this is what I like to see.

Can we please get this kind of direction pushed in to PvP and WvW? When I am not feeling PvE, PvP and WvW is where I spend my time. It feels like devs are terrified of touching things there, but please attempt. Some of the PvE changes will not make sense in Pvp, yes, but look at the playrates for classes in pvp, look at profession feedback, and make some changes to the less played specifications that may encourage people to start using them again. Berserker, Mallyx Revenant, and Chronomancer are the most worthy of attention there at the moment. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

Ele : Looks nice for staff and condi scepter. I think the cd reductions on dagger auras are too much. Perma (shocking) auras is not really a good idea. Weaver power damage boost si cool but also sounds like a lot (not sure about condi builds boost). Tempest is going to be so strong (aftershock is a bit overloaded). Not much for cata.

Guard : Gs buff is nice, so are hammer changes (not played it for a long time but I am not sure I will event after the patch). I find the staff changes curious. Damage was not really needed and I think just like druid it is going to struggle keeping 25 might. Is it going to be a standard for supports because you want dps to provide might? Right now supports are not going to be equal for that.

Necro : Wow staff will burst harder that in PvP (>4k unblockable aoe fun from reapers). Off hand dagger is cool, so is focus. I expected a little more than gs and the main auto for reaper. It could be enough, wait and see.

Ranger : Some nice qol changes and bugfix. You need to sacrifice a spirit or healing spring to get glyph (PvE only 😕  so I expect more updates to druid in the future) + white tiger F2 does not trigger when you ask him to use it (probably not fixed). Not sure it will match other supports but it will still be good.

Edited August 14, 2022 by aymnad.9023

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The game mode where balance is needed the least is the game mode with more balance patches, this game is a meme.

[Sagedurk.7358]

23 hours ago, Zwei.7546 said:

any buffs on "pinnacle of strength" in warrior strength trait line? why is it only 5% additional crit chance while guard, engi, ranger and rev can have 20%+ additional crit chance?

Can't speak about the others, but I can speak for guardian. Is "pinnacle of strength" reliant on some sort of condition?

 

First of all, power guardian didn't get an extra 5% crit chance in traits after we lost banners. Could this be because we never needed banners nor spirits to crit cap? Maybe. However, we are still reliant on upkeeping resolution to even be close to crit capping.

GS 4, the symbol it provides give you a max uptime of 55% resolution on power guardian (only skill you have that provides resolution on that build), which is unrealistic, cause you would need to get all procs, and stack on GS.

 

We are reliant on an outside source of resolution to perma crit cap on power guard. If you don't, it's comparable to having perma resolution but not using your damage trap on DH

[Tammuz.7361]

7 hours ago, Yaki.9563 said:

People will never understand that it's not Rifle that makes Mechanist do crazy damage, it's the mech. 

ehhh, if you look at the top DPS skills on ArcDPS… its Rifle 1, Rifle 1 grenade, and the other auto attack stuff…

 

Anyhow, point is Mechanist is already top DPS, ridiculously easy to play, and so much so im not sure why anyone would play anything else for any content other than a Benchmark Golem at the moment unless they are already a top DPSer and want to give themselves a challenge / make things more difficult for themselves.  For the other 99% of players its an obvious choice (Even Ive picked up playing it because its simply the META to the exclusion of everything else at this point) … it badly needs a dps nerf not a buff…

Edited August 14, 2022 by Tammuz.7361

[ericpeggy.8206]

Stability from Firebrand skills

 

1. Stand Your Ground : 5 stacks, 6 seconds.

Radius : 600

CD : 30s

Bonus : Resolution 5 seconds, Breaks Stun

 

2. Hallowed Ground : 1 stack 2 seconds every pulse, total 8 pulses

Radius : 360 (Range : 900)

CD : 45s

Bonus : Resolution 2 seconds every pulse, total 8 pulses, fire field

 

3. Mantra of Liberation :  1 stack 5 seconds

Radius : 180 (Range : 450)

Charge Time : 45 seconds (this patch)

Bonus : Resolution 5 seconds, Breaks Stun

 

This change only kills Mantra of Liberation and HB still can use Tome of Courage or Hallowed Ground give tons of stability.

After this patch, you still need to kill more skills to make Firebrand become a "Balance" class.

If you really feel Mantra of Liberation is the key of unbalance, maybe remove stability and give it other abilities will better.

Edited August 14, 2022 by ericpeggy.8206
additional more

[habbe.2986]

Firebrand

• Mantra of Liberation: Ammunition reduced from 3 to 2 in PvE and WvW. Recharge increased from 25 seconds to 45 seconds.
   

If your goal with WvW is to delete the game mode or make it into a 'stand-still-and-never-move' mode then this change is probably good.
If you want people to engage in big group/squad fights where they move around then this change is bad. 

Please Anet, don't try to remove more population from WvW by doing this.

[Tammuz.7361]

12 minutes ago, ericpeggy.8206 said:

Stability from Firebrand skills

 

1. Stand Your Ground : 5 stacks, 6 seconds.

Radius : 600

CD : 30s

Bonus : Resolution 5 seconds, Breaks Stun

 

2. Hallowed Ground : 1 stack 2 seconds every pulse, total 8 pulses

Radius : 360 (Range : 900)

CD : 45s

Bonus : Resolution 2 seconds every pulse, total 8 pulses, fire field

 

3. Mantra of Liberation :  1 stack 5 seconds

Radius : 180 (Range : 450)

Charge Time : 45 seconds (this patch)

Bonus : Resolution 5 seconds, Breaks Stun

 

This change only kills Mantra of Liberation and HB still can use Tome of Courage or Hallowed Ground give tons of stability.

After this patch, you still need to kill more skills to make Firebrand become a "Balance" class.

True but: no reason to remove stability in WvW UNLESS they are going to put stab on other classes / sources, FB remains meta simply because no one else has enough stab generation.  Decreasing it will only make it even more of a CC cluster for the rest of us.

They are trying (unsuccessfully i might add) to push a mele meta, to the point of nerfing ranged damaged into the ground (and making WvW a 3 class Meta now that is really depressing and un-rewarding for damage dealers); but this nerf in WvW, in the context of other stab changes being (PvE only) shows they fail to understand the fundamentals of WHY it is that their mele meta plans have completely failed and we are now stuck in this DPSless midrange game.

Point is: WvW meta is in a REALLY bad spot right now thanks to recent ranged DPS nerfs which failed to accomplish their stated objective of bringing people into mele range; this change, by itself, is going to make things much worse, not better.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Tammuz.7361

[Delcran.5734]

The daredevil and deadeye changes look great, but the specter changes don't seem to add up.  

I appreciate the thought of moving damage from venoms to the specter, but the implementation doesn't add up I don't think.  The additional 60 condition damage will help, but buffing two auto attacks does not cover the loss of 20 seconds of torment (4 seconds x 5 players) and 10 seconds of poison (2 seconds x 5 players) from the venoms in group play.  The goal on specter is to auto attack as little as possible (the attacks being buffed in replacement for venoms) while using Grasping Shadows, Eternal Night, Siphon, and Twilight Combo as much as possible without overcapping initiative or missing shroud windows.  

Specter also has a little bit of an issue with cleave damage, so perhaps some of the condition damage lost from venoms could move to making wells better as currently we don't even use wells for our true cDPS build.  Another thought could be to make Haunt Shot pierce.  It wouldn't be much, but it could make staying in shroud for a bit more cleave damage a bit more desireable.  If rot wallow venom affected the specter, that would go a long way toward helping the specter itself in solo play too.

Also, we have quite a few issues with Deadeye's Mark/Steal on gadget type enemies and venoms not working on many bosses/objects such as the Dragonvoid.  These things make thief really difficult if not completely undesireable to play on many encounters due to having prominent mechanics just not working properly.  

I really appreciate this patch and the ideas behind it all around though.  Thank you!!

Edited August 15, 2022 by Delcran.5734

[Herzeleid.5427]

PvE:
The Ranger and Mirage's axe nerf were NOT needed at all.
There was nothing wrong with Mirage's axe. Why nerf it?
Mesmer Staff was already strong. Why Buff it?
Ranger long and shortbow are still very weak. Needs a dmg buff.
Guardian's Longbow could use more buffs. The CD's are way to long it cripples the gameplay.
Thief venom changes were also not needed.
Please stop nerfing stuff that don't need it. Its not fun anymore.
 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Herzeleid.5427

[Caliboom.3218]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

The game mode where balance is needed the least is the game mode with more balance patches, this game is a meme.

Maybe be patient because they can't patch two gamemodes at once without making things more chaotic? It's better to wait for a higher quality patch for your gamemode than rushing some balance changes that end up being crap. Also, some of the stuff in this patch was necessary. And, big surprise, the gamemode with the most players is the one getting the most attention. Because that's the way it should be.

[Myle.2367]

why does the druid give stab only when in CA? other classes can give stab with no conditions attached.

[Benjini.5243]

Don't make weapons and mechanics feel so fundamentally different from PvE to PVP where stuff suddenly feels way stronger/weaker when switching modes and has different recharges or less ammo or gives less boons,  this is trending towards giving everyone multiple sets of stuff to learn depending on which game mode

[taara.3217]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:59 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Mirage/Axe

Lingering Thoughts: (PvE only) Torment duration decreased from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

• Imaginary Axes: (PvE only) Torment duration decreased from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

• Mirage/Staff
• Chaos Vortex (Staff Ambush): (PvE only) Might stack count reduced from 8 to 5, and might duration reduced from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. Torment, bleeding, and confusion duration reduced from 8 seconds to 7 seconds.

hell is it's genius )))
Now it already does not matter  what decision will be taken - to make, or not to make. The very fact that this changes were tentatively approved is the epic failure from any point of view )))

[cooI Ilama.8902]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:46 AM, Zappi.8307 said:

These changes look a lot more promising than some previous attempts we've had.
Bit odd tho that Warriors Hundred Blades was skipped. That spell could use some love, be it more damage or applying vulnurability.
In general Warrior GS is a more fun, but bad version of Vindicator. Matching the 5 target cleave of Vindicator would be an easy way to make it more competetive with Axe/Axe. Pretty sure Reaper GS having 5 target cleave wouldn't hurt anyone either.

Also, nerfing Spellbreaker Tether might generation is completely unneeded. SPB does not and will still not see a lot of group content that would like the mightshare. Warrior already has a trait especially dedicated to sharing might with allies if someone wants to fill that role, taking away 66% of your self might application to share with nonexisting allies is just painful.

Anyway, looking good overall, very curious how power will compete with condi builds again after these changes.

The Magebane Tether change feels like a nerf in some ways.

If you run Phalanx Strength, you will end up sharing less might?

The bonus 5% damage is nice, but the nerfed might generation will hurt your solo damage and survivability. 

Maybe only implement the bonus damage and instead share a different boon like Protection when running Guard Counter?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by cooI Ilama.8902

[omegazone.9254]

Soooo PVE !  Soooo Original ! So Non WvW !  Forgotten once gain !

[Levi.3697]

Please do not nerf mechanist condi AGAIN. People are barely using condi build on mechanist and you are going to nerf it more! 

Pleeeease!!! 🥺

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, cooI Ilama.8902 said:

The Magebane Tether change feels like a nerf in some ways.

If you run Phalanx Strength, you will end up sharing less might?

The bonus 5% damage is nice, but the nerfed might generation will hurt your solo damage and survivability. 

Maybe only implement the bonus damage and instead share a different boon like Protection when running Guard Counter?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You shouldn't be hurting for self might on warrior, but yes it is less might sharing with PS, but then you don't need PS to benefit from MM with the change. It's a small self sustain nerf for a bigger damage buff and easier party might.

[Camniel.7238]

16 hours ago, borisslav.9026 said:

I'm not convinced staff is a power weapon now.

Unless I'm quite mistaken, there's a difference between Power Coefficients and Damage Multiplier modifications. If I'm understanding things right, Necro Staff is having both is power and its condi damage boosted by these changes.

[philvaneyck.1932]

I would also like to see some changes to healing power for druids and some better conditions for warriors... why only increasing damage? Condition on warrior is really bad, way to low damage and only bleeding and burning. 😞

[JPUlisses.8756]

On 8/13/2022 at 12:27 PM, JPUlisses.8756 said:

Best parts:

1. Power Weaver.

2. Stability Druid.

3. Nerf on guardian Stability and Mechanist Barrier.

I love how 2 people liked the post (power weaver and druid) and 2 people got confused (guardian and mechanist).