August 23 Balance Update Preview

[pallas.8150]

23 hours ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

Elementalist Scepter needs a rework on almost every skill on earth and air attunements asap

Air especially. Most skills in professions do multiple things at the same time - scepter's skills in Air include just simple damage with a 5 second cooldown (Lightning Strike), one just blinds on a 10 second cooldown (Blinding Flash), and Gale just knocks down someone with a forty second cooldown (!!!). While Ele has access to more skills than other classes, it is incredibly offset that each skill as a whole does FAR LESS than skills in other professions... so you have to do twice the work (on a piano rotation) in twice the time for the same effect.  

Edited August 21, 2022 by pallas.8150

[Voyant.1327]

52 minutes ago, pallas.8150 said:

Air especially. Most skills in professions do multiple things at the same time - scepter's skills in Air include just simple damage with a 5 second cooldown (Lightning Strike), one just blinds on a 10 second cooldown (Blinding Flash), and Gale just knocks down someone with a forty second cooldown (!!!). While Ele has access to more skills than other classes, it is incredibly offset that each skill as a whole does FAR LESS than skills in other professions... so you have to do twice the work (on a piano rotation) in twice the time for the same effect.  

There is a lot of this in the game due to years of mis-steps and lack of cohesive direction. There are so many skills out there that are near identical to another but one class gets the Superman version and one gets "oh they used to specialize in this but it has now been given to Firebrand but better."

Its why as positive as the communication has been the last few days.... I'm still concerned if they don't fix baseline issues first & keep doing all these buffs without going over all of it.

The game would feel much better if skills were better balanced across classes. They don't have to be carbon copies just equal in value/application. Look at the Stability mantra for Guardian, look at the Stability mantra for Mesmer. Firebrand gets a better one with an extra charge. Firebrand got Quickness. Mesmer got.... Nerfs & Neglect. And its the same for a lot of various traits and specs. The balance feels awful for this reason imo. Classes just haven't been given fair and equal treatment & its painfully obvious with just a quick comparative glance of the patches. 

Hopefully the era of the tyranny and favoritism is over with new members on the team. But until some sort of balance is the goal we're just gonna keep juggling the problem. 

Basically they keep trying to fine tune when full body work is needed first, otherwise the vehicle in which we drive the game will still feel less then ideal at best. 

[stormemperor.3745]

Reaper boost +0.025

Everything else +1-2

[BlueRaVeN.9135]

wtf pve only, i see good balances but apparently anet doesn’t care about other game modes. The balance for wvw is so bad right now. Apparently anet is trying and testing, but pve only really?  a slap in the face for those who don’t participate in this game’s supposed priority activities

[Katary.7096]

On 8/19/2022 at 1:24 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Hundred Blades will be a DPS loss in all game modes over the AA chain if the last attack whiffs on top of the 3.5s self root.

I wanted to emphasize that statement. Hundred Blades is big and flashy, but comes at a step defensive cost that is barely better than just auto attacking. This is not good design and needs to be addressed, in ALL game modes. No, inflating the power coefficient is not the answer.

If it were mobile or had a shorter cast time, it would not have the problem that it does.

Besides the issue with how back loaded the last hit is and how important it is to land, being a 19% DPS increase over the AA chain does not justify the 3.5s self root in a game where actively moving around is the prime means of mitigating damage, again in all game modes.

We've hammered this skill out to death over in the warrior forum. It needs movement, or a shorter cast time with 2s to 2.5s being the generally agreed upon window, or it needs to be a block or evade for the duration. Personally I think a 2s cast would be great, as it would let you squeeze it in during a 2s stun without having to rely on quickness.

The 2s to 2.5s cast time by the way is what would make it damage positive over the AA chain if the last hit whiffs.

At this point the skill might be done for conceptually. You stand still channeling for, in GW2 context, a relatively long time to get big power damage in melee range. So, basically Bladesworn, but all the way from 2012. And Dragon Trigger has a lot of the "fixes" that people often suggest for Hundred Blades. It is faster with a maximum charge time of 2.5 seconds, you can block attacks with Triggerguard, it has limited movement with Flicker Step and it deals more damage.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Katary.7096 said:

At this point the skill might be done for conceptually. You stand still channeling for, in GW2 context, a relatively long time to get big power damage in melee range. So, basically Bladesworn, but all the way from 2012. And Dragon Trigger has a lot of the "fixes" that people often suggest for Hundred Blades. It is faster with a maximum charge time of 2.5 seconds, you can block attacks with Triggerguard, it has limited movement with Flicker Step and it deals more damage.

All the more reason to not leave it in it's current state.

[reapex.8546]

On 8/13/2022 at 7:07 AM, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

overall, i think i like the ele staff changes. they are a good step in the right direction. however, i would still suggest the following:

1) since air has 3 low/ non-damaging skills,

~i would combine air 3 + 4,

~i'd add another spike damage skill to replace the hole left by 3+4

2) earth doesn't offer enough damage either, power nor condi. and also has 3 low / non-damaging skills

~ i'd add bounces to the AA or double the damage, brainfart... missed this patchnote that doubled the damage of this skill.

~ i'd add a poison field on one of the higher number skills, (4, or 5)

~ i'd add a damage component or a knockback to skill 3 in addition to earth aura

3) Water 4 lacks a damage component. (i'd add a high damage amount, power= damage number) it only creates an ice field and applies a movement condition (chill)

Only part of your message I don't agree with is combining Air #3 and #4.
There are times players wants to use swiftness without using their CC skill. 

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

5 minutes ago, reapex.8546 said:

Only part of your message I don't agree with is combining Air #3 and #4.
There are times players wants to use swiftness without using their CC skill. 

i can see that.

here's my train of thinking, and first brainstorms considering your feedback.

 

~ Gale is a slow moving 1200 range knockback that is very hard to use (in other words, it's hard to hit the target if it moves.)

~ combining it with the speedboost, i would change it to a 300 range point-blank AoE centered on the Elementalist, to break movement cc, provide a getaway speed boost, and knock-back attacking melee enemies, giving you a better chance at escape.

~ NEW THOUGHT. combining staff air 3+4 like above, staff air 5 would also need a change to stun everyone (up to 5 targets) in the field when it's originally dropped, to provide a guaranteed (sans stability) ranged CC in place of losing Gale

 

if 3 is NOT combined with 4, then i would suggest to

~ upgrade Static Field to pulse damage (like a well) to anyone (target cap 5) inside the field. (currently only damages people who run into the wall). and since it's positioned in the 5 slot, with a longer cooldown, i'd make it do high damage per pulse, for a total of 4k base damage, since the CC is so unreliable. (the stun only occurs if the target actually runs into the wall.)

~ double the speed of Gale to make it easier to land the CC, since it's so easy to avoid.

 

PS: i think i'll edit the previous post to add the newly considered suggestions. 

 

thank you so much for making me think of the CC. i hadn't considered your comment.

[Myror.7521]

@Josh Davis.7865 @Cal Cohen.2358 those changes are over all pretty decent! You done a great Job here. Thx for the efford you might have done to get it this way. Hopefully you might follow this up with even more decent changes so builds that do not see use will see even more love. 

 

I will also made some use from this mostly good vipe Post since im warrior Main since Release playing all content (mostly pvp). This class is actually in its worst state ever. (Well besides bsw .... but wouldnt call bladesworn a warrior since all the reasons it is good now comes by its ammo refresh elite skill and its dragontrigger (also from some weird Bugs like dragontrigger 2 get too hitbox and shorter CD when instantly castet)). Berserker does well played like 32k dmg (power) or around 28k dmg (condi). Also i do not get why Double standarts are still in disciplin. This traitline skill would be ways better placed in tactics but that is just my opinion only. How ever you just seem to noticed the issue the other 2 specs of warrior actually get and seem to rebuff them and this is pretty nice and decent!

 

Letz give warrs PvP side a Look!

 

Bladesworn: this one is actually broken. No i dont mean that it is too good. I mean litterly realy that this spec is broken or better sayd buggy in pvp. Dragontrigger 2 not only get a too big last hitbox no it also get a only 4 seconds CD when instantly castet. This skill is as buggy as it is just a good mobility skill that dazes, is unblockable, hard to dodge, unblindable and also not cc able thanks to the dragonscale defence Bug where everytime you cast the dragontrigger Mode you get stability. Juuust fix those Bugs and see how it will Perform after!

 

Spellbraker: Only visible Bugs like Hammer and mace f1 Text still says it does its old lvl of dmg (before febr 2020 patch) but it indeed does the 0,001 dmg instead. How ever i found fullcounter a bit too unrewarding to hit since all it does is just daze the enemy and maybe immob plus bind the enemy on you when traidet. Pls let this skill do at least some dmg (something like Overall 1-2k Max dmg would be just more than enough) so it feel actually somewhat as a e-spec mechanic.

 

Berserker: Okay here it comes. This e-spec is absolute garbage when it comes to pvp. The biggest Problems are the fact you cant just do any burst skill outside of the Berserker Mode itself (so you cant stack adrenalin health or do at least some decent damage) and you get a -300 thougness debuff when you enter it. This means you have less defence when you not in the Berserker Mode but also less defence when you activate it. The most ezy and simple fix would be here to give us the f1 burst back when your not in the Berserker Mode. This would help alot when it comes to pvp and also woulnt make Berserker stronger in pve in any sence.

 

EDIT: you might have also noticed that we rly need finaly some damage back on ccs in pvp. Letz be honest some things like bullscharge are actually good with its 0,001% dmg since this is just a ranged cc skill with also a dodge on it. But things like shieldbash, headbutt and other meele skills should do at least some dmg. Maybe let it deal like 40% of its old dmg before the febr 2020 changes and nerf them if they end ub been a bit to strong after. Just only an idea to make non meta stuff be actually not too Bad.

[FreshF.5793]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:59 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• Shadow Bolt: (PvE only) Torment duration increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.
• Haunt Shot: (PvE only) Torment duration increased from 5 seconds to 6 seconds.

I really hope that you increase the numbers a little more and also adjust the WHOLE Autoattack-Chain, not just the first skill. 🙂

 

Otherwise I dont see specter equally good as beforepatch regarding DPS.

 

[Avatara.1042]

Ele staff earth, air and water (to a smaller degree) need to be reworked, not just given damage adjustments.  Sceptre earth and air also need this.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Anet a Change they could do to change Warriors Burst skill for the sword F1 burst skill they could perhaps replace it with impale to do the immbolise duration as a unlockable projectile similar to that of Dragon hunter F1 Spear and have a second ability specific to it called rip which would maintain it's current affects. Depending on the adrenaline bars shall affect the duration of the immbolise and other conditions they could put on it. And take the F1 animation with the offhandsword 4 and make it so  does evasive strikes similar to Mesmer sword but mobile or blocks while attacking while moving similar to that of berserker warriors sword F1 except without projectiles. If changes like this would occur to warrior swords a dual sword warrior may become something people would actually like to play.  Kinda like a fencing duelist. Idk about many warriors but if we had more blocking with dual swords or counters tied into it I would go out of my way to dual wield swords instead of relying on axes as much.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Another change Anet could perhaps do is make damage of crowd control skills a condition based damage like confusion but make it last a set duration and be non removable for the entirety of the duration. Causing those that are cc'ed to either attack themselves or their own allies. While ignoring if the target has stability entirely but have the condition applied to them just for the crowd control making contact and hitting them.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by prototypedragon.1406

[Lazze.9870]

On 8/13/2022 at 11:49 PM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I'd rather not give even more stab to boonbeast bunker builds ...

Let's stop pretending boonbeast bunker builds currently have any impact on the game at all, other than being annoying WvW roamers (a concept which is pretty dead to begin with) that you can walk away from if you so incline. It wouldn't revive it in PvP either, where it was an actual problem.

I'm talking about a single stack for a short duration, similarly to what Ele can have when attuning to earth (a far more annoying class in small scale roaming/clouding with its cele tempest builds). Nature Magic isn't exactly your strongest traitline outside of PvP atm.

Even if it was a problem, if we can't add any significant boon the only "boon and support" traitline core ranger has because of soulbeast, then there needs to be a change directly aimed at soulbeast and/or its interaction with Fortifying Bond.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Yogurt Goblin.5934]

On 8/11/2022 at 3:59 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Improving Support Diversity

 

Firebrand and healing Mechanist are currently dominating group compositions. In this update, we're improving support-role diversity by adding stability and aegis to Tempest's shouts and giving Druids increased access to those boons as well.

 

 

Just wondering if I'm being a little bit blind, but where does Druids get aegis from?

[mirage.8046]

3 minutes ago, Yogurt Goblin.5934 said:

 

Just wondering if I'm being a little bit blind, but where does Druids get aegis from?

so core ranger got a new pet (white tiger) in EoD that grants aegis for 5 allied targets. that's why Rubi said "giving druids increased access to those boons."

[Yogurt Goblin.5934]

3 minutes ago, mirage.8046 said:

so core ranger got a new pet (white tiger) in EoD that grants aegis for 5 allied targets. that's why Rubi said "giving druids increased access to those boons."

 aahh its an increase to previous aegis, as opposed to new sources of aegis, got it, thank you

[Batalix.2873]

Gonna make one more post, to maybe help focus Mech design over the upcoming months, because I just came across this reddit post:

 

 

Mech should not have as much boon utility AND healing/barrier as it has, for also being a braindead job that can be ranged with a tanky pet and ALSO have twice the sources of DPS. It has been shown all across the internet that it can fill any role, with no real sacrifices or tradeoffs, and with practically no risk to the player character because the mech does everything for them at a distance.

 

In its current state, Mech is an embarrassment as a matter of espec design. Every other espec has humbly and gracefully limited itself to specialized niches (well nearly every other espec, FB). Mech needs to define a niche and stick with it. It's not even that great or original a concept when Scrapper already existed as Engi's "pet" job (granted, the pets were turrets, but imo that is an appropriate flavor of "pet" for Engi), so I struggle to understand all the hype around it.

 

I think that "modularity" is the core of Mech's identity. I also think that "accessibility" is another core of Mech's identity. Mech's problem is it has unrestrainedly combined both into a superpower. As such, I think a starting point from which to start refining Mech is to just abandon all access to group alac/stab/might/fury, which provide *too much* modularity with *too much* accessibility. If it is going to be the "beginner-friendly-hide-behind-your-tank-pet" job, then the things it most probably should proritize for its modules are:

 

1) decent mech DPS (power or condi, not both, I think for a baby's first basic class it should probably be power--although I do know Holo exists, don't believe we have many ranged power builds), heavily nerfed player DPS so they can't double-dip. But for being a "mech" class, it does need to at least somewhat deliver on pewpews.

2) barrier and condi cleanse to help learn mechs (barriers being a huge flavor aspect of jade-tech mechs and feeding into the espec's "protector" role--NO access to group alac, maybe even consider no access to group barrier, although I think there may be room for one)

3) swiftness for map exploration and running away faster (Jade Dynamo is probably fine, but easy access to self-quickness should not come with all of the additional group utility). The great thing about mobility is that it is the universal utility but has no direct effect on DPS, particularly for a job that primarily does damage through its pet.

 

Put another way, if Mechanist is designed to be a one-man army easy for new players to solo maps with and slide into group content without being kicked, then lean into that and REMOVE as much group utility as possible. Give them slightly above-average self-sustain and the ability to experiment with, see the effects of, and UNDERSTAND boons on themselves and their jadebot, but remove their ability to be a catch-all support/DPS job. It also *forces* said new players to learn basic cooperative principles of the game by paying attention to how other players can give them alacrity/stability/might/fury. As far as I know, we don't have many "entry level" jobs anyway, and I think there are enough especs in GW2 now that more can be tailored for different skill levels and different content types.

 

Obviously, there may be a balance to be met somewhere in between where mech could specialize in a group boon (or dare I say two) without abandoning all of them. But imo this general guiding principle of moving it away from being a "boon-bringer" and leaning into its role as a "gateway" job is where it should be going.

 

(I feel like Firebrand needs a hard look too, but I have not put enough thought into that problem yet and believe it would need a very different approach).

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by CourtJester.5908

[Zaret.1450]

18 minutes ago, CourtJester.5908 said:

Gonna make one more post, to maybe help focus Mech design over the upcoming months, because I just came across this reddit post:

 

 

Mech should not have as much boon utility AND healing/barrier as it has, for also being a braindead job that can be ranged with a tanky pet and ALSO have twice the sources of DPS. It has been shown all across the internet that it can fill any role, with no real sacrifices or tradeoffs, and with practically no risk to the player character because the mech does everything for them at a distance.

 

In its current state, Mech is an embarrassment as a matter of espec design. Every other espec has humbly and gracefully limited itself to specialized niches (well nearly every other espec, FB). Mech needs to define a niche and stick with it. It's not even that great or original a concept when Scrapper already existed as Engi's "pet" job (granted, the pets were turrets, but imo that is an appropriate flavor of "pet" for Engi), so I struggle to understand all the hype around it.

 

I think that "modularity" is the core of Mech's identity. I also think that "accessibility" is another core of Mech's identity. Mech's problem is it has unrestrainedly combined both into a superpower. As such, I think a starting point from which to start rebalancing is to just abandon all access to group alac/stab/might/fury, which provide *too much* modularity with *too much* accessibility. If it is going to be the "beginner-friendly-hide-behind-your-tank-pet" job, then the things it most probably should proritize for its modules are:

 

1) decent mech DPS (power or condi, not both, I think for a baby's first basic class it should probably be power, although I do know Holo exists), heavily nerfed player DPS so they can't double-dip

2) barrier and condi cleanse to help learn mechs (barriers being a huge flavor aspect of jade-tech mechs and feeding into the espec's "protector" role--NO access to group alac, maybe even consider no access to group barrier, although I think there may be room for one)

3) swiftness for map exploration and running away faster (Jade Dynamo is probably fine, but easy access to self-quickness should not come with all of the additional group utility).

 

Put another way, if Mechanist is designed to be a one-man army easy for new players to solo maps with and slide into group content without being kicked, then lean into that and REMOVE as much group utility as possible. Give them slightly above-average self-sustain and the ability to experiment with, see the effects of, and UNDERSTAND boons on themselves and their jadebot, but remove their ability to be a catch-all support/DPS job. It also *forces* said new players to learn basic cooperative principles of the game by paying attention to how other players can give them alacrity/stability/might/fury.

 

Obviously, there may be a balance to be met somewhere in between where mech could specialize in a group boon (or dare I say two) without abandoning all of them. But imo this general guiding principle of moving it away from being a "boon-bringer" and leaning into its role as a "gateway" job is where it should be going.

 

(I feel like Firebrand needs a hard look too, but I have not put enough thought into that problem yet and believe it would need a very different approach).

 

well think that mech is getting nerfed on boon uptime and barrier, wich is good, i dont know how much the change does but looks pretty heavy, as for fb it also gets some nerfs on stab mantra, maybe fb woukd need a but more look.

But overall the changes are being good thia patch.

[Mike.7983]

This is just getting out of hand, mech needs to be nerfed somewhat as this is common now

 

https://ibb.co/HXgSX91

Edited August 23, 2022 by Mike.7983

[sigmundf.7523]

Sooooo anyway, when will power mechanist rifle gets buff again ?

[Voyant.1327]

2 hours ago, CourtJester.5908 said:

Gonna make one more post, to maybe help focus Mech design over the upcoming months, because I just came across this reddit post:

 

This pretty much highlights what has been said over and over and over. Firebrand & Mechanist were paid attention to & everything else was a crapshoot. The boon patch did what this upcoming patch will do and magnify these issues.

The playing field is nowhere close to level. There was just way too much favoritism to those two specs so when everyone got buffs, their power just went unrivaled even more. 

Its amazing how quickly balance was destroyed in a couple months, but will give the new batch a fair shot to fix and right the ship. Firebrand and Mechs need things toned down, and others need brought up to the same level of utility. Players deserve the same level of engaging choices/variety of playstyles for their classes, not just two. 

That being said fix Mech first, at least Firebrand requires some actual effort. 😎

[ACrowley.7698]

Good call reverting the Mirage nerfs, this had to be done!

 

What you need to understand is that balance is NOT about highest potential damage output NOR is it about popularity..  Those are both lazy and ineffective ways to balance.  It's about being realistic.  What are players really going to hit in a tough fight?

 

There really should be some specs with a higher potential damage, as long as it's much harder to hit!  This not only gives the game variety, but makes it more engaging and fun.  OK sure, maybe your top 1% will be able to abuse this, but the 99% of the playerbasec cannot, as long as this remains a skill-based game, which I hope it does!  Most players are going to pick the easier class to be effective with, and that's fine.  Some players will try something harder, but without practice and skill, they will perform lower.

 

Take power damage, poorly balanced.  Power mech has one of the highest power damage benchmarks, but one of the lowest efforts to pull off.  So realistically, it's almost irresponsible for power players NOT to pick power mech.  Unless they're really good, they aren't going to hit the potential dps of their sepc. Good players, go ahead and go soulbeast.  Everyone else, you might as well go power mech or you're being carried.  High potential,  low effort, no brainer choice.  See how that works?  On the condi side, a.net has much better balance.  For example, eles and mirages have high potential, but it's hard to pull off. You rarely see them in pugs.  People go with the easier, more reliable options in tough fights, and that's great!  Don't nerf what's popular, keep the variety.

 

One last note!  Be careful simply nerfing things just because.  For example, you nerfed the Firebrand staff might generator.  Why?  Just to discourage people from playing HealBrand? OK fine, but realize, that has effects you might not be thinking about.  For example, I'm often playing heal willbender, which gives healing and alac.  It's already tougher to play than heal mech or druid to do the same job, simply becuase of the way it generates alac to the party is less reliable an takes more effort.  But now that it will be nearly impossible to upkeep 100% 25 stacks of might, it would be irresponsible of me to choose this spec, I will be forced to play another spec, like heal mech or driud, if I care about carrying my weight for the group.  So in essence, you tried to make the game more diverse, but accidentally made it less diverse.  Please pay more attention to things like that.

 

Thanks!  Again, good job reverting the over-nerfing

[Guirssane.7082]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:56 PM, Pati.2438 said:

"PvE only"  okay seems that anet loves that EoD specs actually smash everything Else into the ground when it comes to pvp xd

Many viable specs outside of eod in pvp come on

[reapex.8546]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:19 PM, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

i can see that.

here's my train of thinking, and first brainstorms considering your feedback.

~ double the speed of Gale to make it easier to land the CC, since it's so easy to avoid

PS: i think i'll edit the previous post to add the newly considered suggestions. 

thank you so much for making me think of the CC. i hadn't considered your comment.

You're welcome 😁