Well, Steam complaints are starting to flood in...

[Dante.1508]

4 minutes ago, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

IDK how they are unless you mean because of the gem to gold conversion (which seems super not worth it to me). But Legendaries in GW2 are a lateral move from ascended in terms of power so eh

Depends on how you see winning.. They are a small power creep but a huge quality of life achievement. Effectively do not ever need that weapon again unless you dual wield, no more costs on crafting or installing sigils and skins.. no more need to use extractors for build changes.. that in its self is the Pay to Win in my book, also the awesome affects are icing on the cake. $100USD? or countless Ascended crafting and Exotic purchasing..

Especially with 20+ characters..

Edited August 25, 2022 by Dante.1508

[KryTiKaL.3125]

22 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Which notabe mmorpg regulary offers free "content" patches tho? WoW doesn't, FFXIV doesn't, ESO doesn't. Free content is not the norm.

I always considered living world seasons to be payed content (just like similar payed content in other games, eg DLC in ESO, which btw are not the expansions), that is given out for free as sign of appreciation or reward for active players.

WoW does. Each incremental patch between expansion releases is "free" in that there is no extra charge to participate in it. I.E the patches that add Raids, new zones, new dungeons, etc.

FFXIV does similar with its incremental patches between expansions.

ESO doesn't, but ESO's system is, imo, terrible. It has an "optional" but not optional sub where you lose access to the DLC content if it runs out.

Lost Ark and Black Desert Online, two notable MMORPGs, also offer free content releases. I.E new zones, new dungeons, new raids, etc. The former of which is also F2P.

[Darkobra.6439]

3 hours ago, Thomanson.4765 said:

If people say 100 is too much, ask them how much they spent on their WoW/FF subscription last year. Done.

One of them was worth it. The other is Guild Wars 2. 

[firedragon.8953]

It's the Internet, people are going to complain and say off-the-wall things all the time.
People have different tastes and things they enjoy and things that "bother them."
The game's aggregated review score is "Very Positive."

I think Anet did a great job to help build hype. The Steam main page looks good too. Some great trailers and screenshots. Although more is always better, I also really appreciate them trying to make the new player experience better and refining a lot of older content. 

[Freya.9075]

45 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Depends on how you see winning.. They are a small power creep but a huge quality of life achievement. Effectively do not ever need that weapon again unless you dual wield, no more costs on crafting or installing sigils and skins.. no more need to use extractors for build changes.. that in its self is the Pay to Win in my book, also the awesome affects are icing on the cake. $100USD? or countless Ascended crafting and Exotic purchasing..

Especially with 20+ characters..

This is called pay for convenience. Not pay to win as you cannot win more with legendaries then you do with ascended gear 👀

[RadiantWolf.2058]

2 hours ago, Darkobra.6439 said:

One of them was worth it. The other is Guild Wars 2. 

Weirdly I think GW2 is vastly underrated by the MMORPG community. A lot of people don't know about it to be fair. It's crazy how many FFXIV and WoW streamers I see saying things like "I wish there was a MMORPG that valued your time as much as FFXIV but you could have alts like in WoW, and everything was account bound and the open world still meant something".

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

WoW does. Each incremental patch between expansion releases is "free" in that there is no extra charge to participate in it. I.E the patches that add Raids, new zones, new dungeons, etc.

FFXIV does similar with its incremental patches between expansions.

ESO doesn't, but ESO's system is, imo, terrible. It has an "optional" but not optional sub where you lose access to the DLC content if it runs out.

Lost Ark and Black Desert Online, two notable MMORPGs, also offer free content releases. I.E new zones, new dungeons, new raids, etc. The former of which is also F2P.

If you pay subscriptions, none of the releases can be considered free anymore. So, WoW and FFXIV do not offer anything for free.

No idea on how the revenue system works for Lost Ark & BDO, so I won't comment on them.

All Living World seasons, including Fractals, Raids, Special Events were released in-between expansion packs.?  Are you suggesting that they should all be free? How would you propose they generate revenue in between expansion releases? As it is, it was free if you played during those releases. And it is possible to purchase them with gold earned through playing, so they're basically "free".

Would it be more acceptable if they had waited until they have a full season (instead of releasing episodes through the years) and sell them as mini-expansions? And just give players a free fractal or raid map every few months?

Edited August 25, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Labjax.2465]

3 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

WoW does. Each incremental patch between expansion releases is "free" in that there is no extra charge to participate in it. I.E the patches that add Raids, new zones, new dungeons, etc.

FFXIV does similar with its incremental patches between expansions.

ESO doesn't, but ESO's system is, imo, terrible. It has an "optional" but not optional sub where you lose access to the DLC content if it runs out.

Lost Ark and Black Desert Online, two notable MMORPGs, also offer free content releases. I.E new zones, new dungeons, new raids, etc. The former of which is also F2P.

Thank you for bringing the details. I was certain it was BS that other MMOs don't do free content patches, but I couldn't remember the specifics from other MMOs I've played.

The way some people talk about this game's model just baffles me.

[Labjax.2465]

56 minutes ago, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

Weirdly I think GW2 is vastly underrated by the MMORPG community. A lot of people don't know about it to be fair. It's crazy how many FFXIV and WoW streamers I see saying things like "I wish there was a MMORPG that valued your time as much as FFXIV but you could have alts like in WoW, and everything was account bound and the open world still meant something".

I know this is gonna sound harsher than I intend, but I'm too tired to do more than lampshade it: I think GW2 is a lot more forgettable than some of its most dedicated fans realize. That's not to say it's a "bad" game, but what is there about it that really sets it apart on a level you can recognize very quickly and immediately? Maybe mounts, is all I can think of and they only just became something you can get early (and you don't see the most interesting mount mechanics until PoF).

For comparison, as much as I hate what SWTOR has become, that has an element that immediately stands out, very early on: the fully voiced and fully cinematically-told class stories. Or even a lesser known (or maybe just seems lesser known to me?) MMO like BDO: the character creation engine is unparalleled in the MMO space. I could criticize SWTOR as a whole all day, I'm not saying these are amazing games. But you can prob see how a single really fantastic standout feature can suddenly make a game sound very appealing and make it very recognizable to remember.

I guess maybe GW2 has the fact that things are shared in the open world, that's recognizable pretty early on. But that has not been maintained by anet in lowbie zones to ensure people have time to share kills, so people can instead experience kill stealing (or close to it anyway). So one of the things that sets it apart doesn't even fully work. I think that's a pretty clear problem.

What this leads me to believe is that anet needs to reevaluate what it is about GW2 that sets it apart, pick one or a couple things they think are most important for representing it and make sure those things stay strong and are something a player experiences as soon and as thoroughly as possible throughout the game. That is, if they want it to not be, as you put it, "underrated."

[Miragen.6127]

3 hours ago, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

Weirdly I think GW2 is vastly underrated by the MMORPG community. A lot of people don't know about it to be fair. It's crazy how many FFXIV and WoW streamers I see saying things like "I wish there was a MMORPG that valued your time as much as FFXIV but you could have alts like in WoW, and everything was account bound and the open world still meant something".

 

Because part of it is Arenanet, I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I have seen anyone mention GW2 in the last decade.. it's honestly impressive if it wasn't sad how they manage to stay irrelevant and under the radar consistently.

The other part is it's community that thinks the game is the holy grail and that the 2012 game they recommend to people is still as good as it was 10 years ago when they played it.

 

Reality is that every other competitor offers a better new player experience, includes expansions and is better at marketing.

[Darkobra.6439]

3 hours ago, RadiantWolf.2058 said:

Weirdly I think GW2 is vastly underrated by the MMORPG community. A lot of people don't know about it to be fair. It's crazy how many FFXIV and WoW streamers I see saying things like "I wish there was a MMORPG that valued your time as much as FFXIV but you could have alts like in WoW, and everything was account bound and the open world still meant something".

The combat in FF14 evolved and BECAME something great. It really was abysmal pre-Heavensward. In GW2, you're basically still locked to zergfest and berserker is king. I came back for the 10 year anniversary, tried again, I am legit bored fighting things in this game. 10 years and nothing has changed at all. Nothing evolved. 

I can see they TRIED to do things different with defiance bars and adding a tier of strategy. It didn't. But I guess it's really aiming at the casual market after all. Which, honestly, is fine, but they abandon huge amounts to pander purely to the casuals. After all, casuals are the most likely to spend extra money in their gem store. But the story doesn't even grasp me either. Two actors on a watercolour background talking back and forward about details in a speedrun of a story doesn't hold up. 

At least in 14, things evolved over YEARS and everything tied up nicely. It had real cutscenes, real characters and they weren't just a parody of themselves. 

GW1 was great. It should have kept the same formula. GW2 is just ticking boxes off a checklist and PRAYING it's finally over.

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I know this is gonna sound harsher than I intend, but I'm too tired to do more than lampshade it: I think GW2 is a lot more forgettable than some of its most dedicated fans realize. That's not to say it's a "bad" game, but what is there about it that really sets it apart on a level you can recognize very quickly and immediately? Maybe mounts, is all I can think of and they only just became something you can get early (and you don't see the most interesting mount mechanics until PoF).

For comparison, as much as I hate what SWTOR has become, that has an element that immediately stands out, very early on: the fully voiced and fully cinematically-told class stories. Or even a lesser known (or maybe just seems lesser known to me?) MMO like BDO: the character creation engine is unparalleled in the MMO space. I could criticize SWTOR as a whole all day, I'm not saying these are amazing games. But you can prob see how a single really fantastic standout feature can suddenly make a game sound very appealing and make it very recognizable to remember.

I guess maybe GW2 has the fact that things are shared in the open world, that's recognizable pretty early on. But that has not been maintained by anet in lowbie zones to ensure people have time to share kills, so people can instead experience kill stealing (or close to it anyway). So one of the things that sets it apart doesn't even fully work. I think that's a pretty clear problem.

What this leads me to believe is that anet needs to reevaluate what it is about GW2 that sets it apart, pick one or a couple things they think are most important for representing it and make sure those things stay strong and are something a player experiences as soon and as thoroughly as possible throughout the game. That is, if they want it to not be, as you put it, "underrated."

There’s so much that is right about GW2 for me that I don’t think I’d play another MMO if it shut down. It feels very distinctive to me, though not, as you allude, in a way that puts a clear trademark on it. 
 

That said, I very much agree with the core of what you’re saying. Since shortly after launch, this game has felt like it has lurched between different visions of what it should be. Weird in some ways, because the vision seemed so clear and passionate at launch.

But because there has been this whack a mole vision casting everything I could point to as a  strength of the game also has to have a caveat of some other choice that undermines that strength a bit.

That leads to a really muddy sort of advocacy, and surely leaves the marketing department in as difficult a place as the fans who want to share the game.

[robertthebard.8150]

13 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

well if you actually did watch the video which is a recording of a 2016 publisher conference about monetizing the ever loving crabs out of people you would not have that stands. also its literally FIRST HAND information from the people who MADE MTX a thing.

 

Hmm.  Very interesting, but false.  I was playing a game that was very much P2W in 2005.  They functioned on MTX.  So, unless we're talking about some time travel stuff, MTX were already "a thing"...  This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, the mere existence of MTX does not equal P2W.  What defines P2W is what's being sold.  There are predatory systems, there are P2W systems, and then there are systems like what's in place here.  Someone's inability to accept that there's a difference does not equate to me needing to change the definition of what P2W is.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

3 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

What this leads me to believe is that anet needs to reevaluate what it is about GW2 that sets it apart, pick one or a couple things they think are most important for representing it and make sure those things stay strong and are something a player experiences as soon and as thoroughly as possible throughout the game.

Personally I think that the things that stood out back in the day aren't anything special anymore since they were pretty much copied by any other the Diku-style MMORPG that was released in the last decade.

Here are some examples that come to mind: a mostly linear XP curve, lot less grind during leveling, a much more co-operative approach to the game's zones (including gathering), a world that scales with the player, originally a much bigger focus on the open world than the competition, more streamlined professions (aka classes), a combat system that was very action focused compared the competition of the time, combo-fields and -finishers in group play were also quite unique, the global Trading Post instead of an eBay-style auction house (often only per server).

If you ever played the last content patch of WoW: Legion, you'll pretty much notice that many of the systems mentioned above were adapted and integrated into the modern World of Warcraft game as well. Without a dedicated and innovative developer team that tries to innovate, GW2 won't stand out any longer.

For example if you look at the UI/UX of the LFG tool, you'll notice that the current crop of devs try more to emulate other games than come up with their own, hopefully better solutions. I mean, I play a game called "Guild Wars 2", yet it doesn't have a proper guild finder! Even the long abandoned Vanguard had a much better tool in-game, which by the way was dumbed down and copied by Blizzard into WoW (again).

The big elephant in the room, however, is the payment model. Back in the days during beta and at launch, ANet was touting it's unique "buy-to-play" scheme that was sold to us as some sort of holy grail of gaming, because it was supposed to be fair to us players, since we didn't need a subscription or weren't constantly nickeled and dimed like by those pesky free-to-play games. Turns out that B2P never fulfilled that promise and when looking at the price for the complete Steam-bundle of the game and all that additional stuff you need to buy to get rid of the nuisances of certain systems, it feels like a very expensive freemium model nowadays.

[robertthebard.8150]

1 hour ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Because part of it is Arenanet, I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I have seen anyone mention GW2 in the last decade.. it's honestly impressive if it wasn't sad how they manage to stay irrelevant and under the radar consistently.

The other part is it's community that thinks the game is the holy grail and that the 2012 game they recommend to people is still as good as it was 10 years ago when they played it.

 

Reality is that every other competitor offers a better new player experience, includes expansions and is better at marketing.

LOL...  Oh, wait, you're serious?  None of the games listed so far include expansions, you have to buy them.  I can't argue the marketing, much, but I have seen some ads for GW2 recently, including a paid promotion spot on one of the YouTubers I follow for other games.  Prior to that, I had seen some banner ads, before I got an ad block program to keep me from seeing ads at all.  Since I go out of my way to keep that ad blocker updated, I surely can't say "they're not doing any marketing", but I also can't say they are, except for, as I said, the paid promotion I saw on a YouTube channel recently.  It was a big change from Raid Shadow Legends...

[Miragen.6127]

10 minutes ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

LOL...  Oh, wait, you're serious?  None of the games listed so far include expansions, you have to buy them.  I can't argue the marketing, much, but I have seen some ads for GW2 recently, including a paid promotion spot on one of the YouTubers I follow for other games.  Prior to that, I had seen some banner ads, before I got an ad block program to keep me from seeing ads at all.  Since I go out of my way to keep that ad blocker updated, I surely can't say "they're not doing any marketing", but I also can't say they are, except for, as I said, the paid promotion I saw on a YouTube channel recently.  It was a big change from Raid Shadow Legends...

 

World of Warcraft has a free trial up to level 20 which includes everything aside from the last expansion to my knowledge, so that would be 7 expansions.. or you can spend $15 now and get access to everything, including the last expansion for the month.

 

ESO currently has a sale going on, $40 for the game and all chapters, I don't really know much about the game beyond that however, they do have free trials but it's not always available I guess.

 

FF14 has a free trial up to level 60 which is a ton of content and few limitations, and it includes 2 of the previous expansions, or buy the latest version of the game for $40 with 30 days of free time..

 

Guild Wars 2 gives you access to the base game, which is still the game from 2012, does not include expansions, mounts etc and costs $100 to get up to date but no subscription, however it does have a lot of cash shop items that can easily cost you a ton of money, some more optional than others.

 

Then you also have New World that also has a $40 entry point for the entire game.

 

So I would argue that Guild wars 2 offers the most outdated trial experience, the steepest buy in price, also feels more restrictive, second to the level 20 WoW trial which is very limited, by not having access to mounts and the highest cost to get up to date with current content without even acknowledging the cash shop, that is not present in other games to my knowledge. 

 

And yeah, people can keep arguing about how in the long run GW2 is cheaper by not requiring a subscription, but that requires people to commit long term to a game whilst a lot of people just play games for a few months, which makes GW2 not a good deal, and the free trial isn't captivating either.

 

At the end of the day it's not really about the actual cost either, it's not that $10-15 is unaffordable for people when these days everyone is used to monthly subscriptions.. it's all about perceived value and people feeling they get their money out of it.. and once WoW or FF14 has people hooked, they have no problem paying a monthly fee.

[Dawdler.8521]

10 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

And yeah, people can keep arguing about how in the long run GW2 is cheaper by not requiring a subscription, but that requires people to commit long term to a game whilst a lot of people just play games for a few months, which makes GW2 not a good deal, and the free trial isn't captivating either.

Uhm what? 

Its the subscription games that "require" you to commit to playing it long term or you dont get any value for the continous cost and in particular you cant stop paying once you started or you loose access.

Subscription is the definition of a bad deal.

[Miragen.6127]

10 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Uhm what? 

Its the subscription games that "require" you to commit to playing it long term or you dont get any value for the continous cost and in particular you cant stop paying once you started or you loose access.

Subscription is the definition of a bad deal.

 

Again it's about the experience, allowing people to get a full experience for a small fee to get them hooked is a lot more appealing to people than a $100 pay wall. 

And you do get value as a subscription finances the game and thus you avoid the cash shop like you get in GW2 as a compromise, which means intentionally frustrating and inconvenient aspects to push cash shop sales.

 

Netflix and what not would also not be as successful if they charged you a $150 up front opposed to over 12 months, the outcome remains the same yet in the latter it gives the user a level of control and ability to cancel at any point, as paying $150 up front gives you no guarantee you get any value out of it and you could go an entire year without using it.

Yeah over many years it gets a lot more expensive, but it requires you to commit to it several years to get the value out of it, so you also need to keep playing just as much.

[Sunchaser.9854]

There's also some minor things like with subscriptions you can binge, like say, unsub 11 months, sub 1 month, which the expansion purchases are kinda meant to tie in. Normally it's 60$ expac + 15$ sub, so 15$ for path of fire is a good deal. But i think it's kinda like, self counterproductive, people would tell new players, 'NO! DON'T listen to that troll, if you don't spend 100$, you'll never get the full gw2 story! buy the whole thing or not at all and don't listen'. So people wanted to buy the full experience,

 

Then it was 60$ + 15$/month wow and 50-100$ full gw2. Then people started talking about how like haircuts are 5$ a pop, mounts are 5-15$, unbreakable volatile tools are 30$ and also give more loot, faster harvests or extra mats over the f2p tools, WoW gave away shadowlands free (honestly probably a long term greed move more than charity lmao. long term returns they know.), and you know the longer you play each game.

The more you see and appreciate the aspects each game does well or the most basic stuff. (The only way to get a appreciation for a LOL unlimited haircuts, unlimited style changes, changing character's haircuts on whim and unlimited tmog on whim is to kinda take it away.) 

Nobody is going to rave about like getting 60-120 fps in a game with old graphics but when you go 30 to 60-120. After so long in Gw2 while i wasn't playing either game for fps i had some fun spazzing around my camera with 120 fps just jerking it and seriously going. "wait, if gw2's inputs are faster, why the crap was it never much optimized better to be less cpu/heat hoggy?" 

Still there's both great games, Gw2 leans more into, do random tasks which feels like freedom. But Wow has the Kill 20 squirrels, look 8 squirrel ribs, have quest dialog. (even if people skip it, there's usually a little quip for each quest. Such as a infamous Grizzly hills questline where the townsmen you're helping turn out to be werewolves, followed by arriving back at camp, and eating some seeds as a snack, starts a quest doling out 23k exp while you get a warning they were a druid's rapidly growing seeds. And that unless you use the outhouse immediately, or wish to have a internal garden you need to get them out asap with a "visit outhouse" 23k xp quest lmao. 

 

As far as cost goes, it's normally easily much more expensive to stay in wow. but people have fair points. In terms of 15$ a month vs say people who pay 100-300$ for 3 cable channels or NBA/football. 15$ a month isn't much of a budget, but you want games to have content. While gw2 can let you play all the content forever, some parts of content like dungeons (major in many mmoprgs), have gone like 9 years without a new dungeon added. And while fractals are decent, it seems like a lot of the maps are re used or recycled(?).

While even if a Wow's expac was relatively terrible, the sub money is intended on paper to pay for 5-7 new zones every 2-3 years, 7-20 dungeons, 3-4 new raids with 4-10 bosses each, 3-4 mythic+ seasons, usually like 5-20+ free mount skins in a game with 1000s. (Though they all fly the same as a 2x speed skyscale with 0 endurance).

But the minor cons are yeah they're more stock driven. Mounts have 1.6s cast times (unless druid/flight form), and while they add tons of content, they also tended to obsolete it rapidly. (hence the appeal of playing classic servers to experience content without a lvl +20-30 player instantly one shotting the 10-15 raid boss fight in 2 seconds for a mount drop.). But yeah, imo, it can both be reasonable to spend 100-300$ on gw2 or Wow over like a period of 3 years.

Though with wow, you can often just binge play it 2-4 months once a expac and be fine just like you can wait 12 months, sub for a streaming service, watch 10 hrs of mandalorian, and unsub while you wait for the next episode/season to come out. 

[KeoLegend.5132]

Let's just positive review bomb then

[Tiilimon.6094]

I gotta say that this game is not very enjoyable to play if you don't have enough inventory space, either you have to run to a vendor constantly or stop picking stuff up, both are very annoying for most mmo players afaik.

I've quit a few MMOS for that very reason, I'd have to spend irl money to unlock more slots.

The only difference is that in those other games I can't use ingame currency to purchase them.

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Again it's about the experience, allowing people to get a full experience for a small fee to get them hooked is a lot more appealing to people than a $100 pay wall. 

And you do get value as a subscription finances the game and thus you avoid the cash shop like you get in GW2 as a compromise, which means intentionally frustrating and inconvenient aspects to push cash shop sales.

 

Netflix and what not would also not be as successful if they charged you a $150 up front opposed to over 12 months, the outcome remains the same yet in the latter it gives the user a level of control and ability to cancel at any point, as paying $150 up front gives you no guarantee you get any value out of it and you could go an entire year without using it.

Yeah over many years it gets a lot more expensive, but it requires you to commit to it several years to get the value out of it, so you also need to keep playing just as much.

Doesn’t subscription games also have a cash shop? Like Mount skins for 100 dollars and outfits. It’s not like you avoid them if you play wow or ff14. Quite ironic that you talk about value for money when subscription games makes you feel you have to no life to get value for money the period you subscribed to. 
 

also you can play the core game for free to try it out. Then if you like it, pay 30 dollars for hot and pof. You don’t have to pay 100 dollars right away if you’re unsure if you feel it’s worth it or not.

[Miragen.6127]

19 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Doesn’t subscription games also have a cash shop? Like Mount skins for 100 dollars and outfits. It’s not like you avoid them if you play wow or ff14. Quite ironic that you talk about value for money when subscription games makes you feel you have to no life to get value for money the period you subscribed to. 
 

also you can play the core game for free to try it out. Then if you like it, pay 30 dollars for hot and pof. You don’t have to pay 100 dollars right away if you’re unsure if you feel it’s worth it or not.

 

Cosmetic cash shop is not remotely the same as a convenience cash shop, one is kinda lame and the other is annoying and entangled in the core of the game.

 

And yeah, you can play the core game, which is a 2012 game without any sort of upgrades that does little to convince people, and people don't realize how limiting the experience is without mounts and how you cannot play with anyone because they move 5x as fast as you or they sit around waiting for you all day or just play in different zones you cannot go, you feel like a peasant and constantly get reminded of your free to play status, pushed to giving them money,  you even get rewards that are boosts to mastery which you do not have access to anyways.

 

You can buy HoT and PoF, but then you're still 5 years behind and you still need to spend another $50 for LW for the story to be worthwhile putting you $80 in the hole, that's a large commitment when after that payment you have nothing to show for it yet and have to hope you'll be able to get the value out of it, it's a gamble.

 

All the other games offer a more compelling and convincing experience for less.

[Freya.9075]

13 minutes ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

Cosmetic cash shop is not remotely the same as a convenience cash shop, one is kinda lame and the other is annoying and entangled in the core of the game.

 

And yeah, you can play the core game, which is a 2012 game without any sort of upgrades that does little to convince people, and people don't realize how limiting the experience is without mounts and how you cannot play with anyone because they move 5x as fast as you or they sit around waiting for you all day or just play in different zones you cannot go, you feel like a peasant and constantly get reminded of your free to play status, pushed to giving them money,  you even get rewards that are boosts to mastery which you do not have access to anyways.

 

You can buy HoT and PoF, but then you're still 5 years behind and you still need to spend another $50 for LW for the story to be worthwhile putting you $80 in the hole, that's a large commitment when after that payment you have nothing to show for it yet and have to hope you'll be able to get the value out of it, it's a gamble.

 

All the other games offer a more compelling and convincing experience for less.

Meh. Depends on your opinions. I am a rather new player as I started a couple years ago. I didn’t feel left behind or overwhelmed by stuff to do. Quite the contrary. I was looking forward to hundreds or thousands of hours working my way up to where I wanted to be. And I had a lot of fun doing so.
 

I probably have more stuff and mastery points then many casual veterans as I am fully leveled up with masteries and have all the legendaries I need. And I got those by playing the game and not with my wallet as some players prefer. neither way is good or bad as it depends how you want your gaming experience to be. Gw2 has been the game costing me least money since I started playing mmos when fiesta online was a thing. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

I gotta say that this game is not very enjoyable to play if you don't have enough inventory space, either you have to run to a vendor constantly or stop picking stuff up, both are very annoying for most mmo players afaik.

I've quit a few MMOS for that very reason, I'd have to spend irl money to unlock more slots.

The only difference is that in those other games I can't use ingame currency to purchase them.

Who runs to vendors?  Just open trading post from anywhere in the world.  Auto-deposit materials with a single click.