i was shocked to see the state of spvp

[Anatolian Turk.4057]

after 9 years later i was pushed to do pvp to unlock the decade cape back skin, i thought 10 matches wasn't too bad....so after getting my cape i decided to do ranked pvp , to try it out...i lost one match after another until i was on a 4 match losing streak, the 5th match was filled with bots and i lost that 90-500. Now i am on 5th game losing streak. The matches i lost it wasnt close, we got stomped.. After 10 years of gw2 being released, can someone tell me how the match making is still broken?? the teams are so unbalanced...teams filled with bots and afkers....broken claases stll exist?? im shocked to see the dark side of gw2, which made me sad since i like this game a lot.

[Hashberry.4510]

Nobody plays so the matching can’t work.

[Ausar.9542]

nobody playing this crap. We need 15 vs 15 Battleground like instances. This 5v5 and 2v2 arena stuff is boring and a mess

[Cronospere.8143]

14 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Nobody plays so the matching can’t work.

There is actually soo much truth in that... 

[Labjax.2465]

PvP seems to be consistently in a poor state across different MMOs as a game gets older, and I think it has to do with people not really wanting go play a game so they can fail over and over in a pug matchup. It's hard enough getting kicked around by RL, then you go in a video game and get kicked around there too. Not a great sell. So then you gotta have the tenacity for it to keep at it until you become skilled enough that you can outplay the odds and define your own wins, and if you can get there consistently, that's probably a pretty addicting state to be in. But since it's competitive, not everybody can get to that point even if they try really hard, so I guess a lot are just gonna give up over time. And the longer some of the most skilled stick around, the more the gap is gonna widen over time between people newer and people who have been doing it for forever, making it all the more of a hurdle to get anywhere near a competitive skill level.

[Luthan.5236]

I can give some information as a PvP player that plays regularly 3-4 matches a day until the seasonal chest is maxed (then 0-1 match per day for the dailies maybe).

The matchmaker always resets your rating each season - a soft reset I think to 1200 + 0.5*[previous rating]. At your first matches each season (the placements) there is already a rating - but it his hidden and the number changes are big. (Volatility.) This will lead to a lot of weird matches at the beginning of each season. Should not be that bad for you now ... since most others have finished their placements because it is already late into this season.

There is still the problem with big streaks. I do not know why. I guess it is partly because team setup (some professions work better together as team than others) also plays a role - and the matchmaker can't take this into account. + you get less motivated (trying less hard = playing lower than your rating) if losing a lot. (Where you also often have people that drop/surrender early after a bad start.) I regularly get streaks between 5-10 losses and then 5-10 wins again (with maybe 1 or 2 matches that deviate from the streak in between). Lucky if you get something like 2-3 wins, 2-3 wins - then it is balanced.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Izzy.2951]

ppl keep saying that nobody plays pvp, which is a lie. There are ppl playing pvp, even dedicated ppl. Of course this is not league of legends, when ur gonna have 70 million players playing ranked. Thats why the matchmaking is not gonna be perfect, as in most games.

You can go SMITE and experience the same thing, even with 2million unique players per month. And being just a pvp game.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Skynet.7201]

I stopped shortly after duo queue was put in, and saved myself a lot of headaches

I really miss 8v8v8 in GW1 Heroes' Ascent and proper form-ups.

[Maria Murtor.7253]

After Hot Join was killed a couple of years ago by removing specific dailys, PvP died for me. Today, I can't even do dailys on a Hot Join server, because I immediately get flammed because I'm ruining other people PvP leaching.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Izzy.2951 said:

ppl keep saying that nobody plays pvp, which is a lie. There are ppl playing pvp, even dedicated ppl. Of course this is not league of legends, when ur gonna have 70 million players playing ranked. Thats why the matchmaking is not gonna be perfect, as in most games.

You can go SMITE and experience the same thing, even with 2million unique players per month. And being just a pvp game.

The issue is that for a matchmaking system to work, it needs to be able to draw upon a pool of players of a certain minimum size. And even that is a great simplification - in reality, for the system to work well, there needs to be enough players engaging with it at every skill tier. In GW2 this is not the case. At certain tiers there's a visible lack of players, which causes players of those tiers to be thrown into matchups at different tiers, which in turn unbalances those.

So, saying that nobody plays SPvP is an exagerration, but the truth is that the pool of active, engaged pvpers is way too small for the system to work well.

[Izzy.2951]

12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The issue is that for a matchmaking system to work, it needs to be able to draw upon a pool of players of a certain minimum size. And even that is a great simplification - in reality, for the system to work well, there needs to be enough players engaging with it at every skill tier. In GW2 this is not the case. At certain tiers there's a visible lack of players, which causes players of those tiers to be thrown into matchups at different tiers, which in turn unbalances those.

So, saying that nobody plays SPvP is an exagerration, but the truth is that the pool of active, engaged pvpers is way too small for the system to work well.

 

I can tell you for sure, that even if there were loads of more players. You are not gonna be platinum and matched with platinum players all the time. Cos that to happen (specially at any given time hour) there has to be an inmense ammount of players and good MM system.

What they could do is what SMITE has made. They have a constant quee going (the time goes backwards), meaning that every idk 6 minutes theres a ranked match forming. The matching works like this:

Every 6 minutes: top 10 elo players (in the que) play with each other, and like that until the lowest elo ppl.

Then you will have the most balanced matchmaking posible. You could do 6 minutes for ranked and 3 min for normals. That doesnt mean that you will have to always wait 6 minutes, it means that when you enter lobby or finish a match it can be 30 sec till next, 3 min or 6. Cos theres a permanent timer going down.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Astralporing.1957]

35 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

I can tell you for sure, that even if there were loads of more players. You are not gonna be platinum and matched with platinum players all the time. Cos that to happen (specially at any time hour given) there has to be an inmense ammount of players and good MM system.

Sure, but if you have a population issues so bad that players in gold can be in top 1000, the matchups are practically guaranteed to be massively imbalanced. With such a small population, no matchmaking can even work. Not just perfectly, but not even to a decent level.

[Gibson.4036]

Where I am in mid silver, once I get past the first ten sorting-hat games each season, I experience a roughly 50/50 win rate, only occasional afkers, and much more friendly people than toxic. I also end up in more matches with a smaller than 100 point spread than I do shutouts.

Those first ten matches or so are rough, but after that PvP is fun.

 

[Loboling.5293]

Out of every 10 games this season I get maybe 1 or 2 blowouts. Most of my games are close. I've always been a bit confused by these claims. I imagine there's some bracket that has this issue. In gold, the matches seem pretty balanced. I'll try to post some scores from recent games when I get on my computer later. 

 

I play either core warrior or spellbreaker this season. In my screenshots though, at most two of those games are spellbreaker. I found a core build I really like for teamfights, but when I want to roam, I roll my spellbreaker. 

[Arnox.5128]

I'm surprised the topic has gone this long without a single mention of all the blatant hacking too. And no way to report it whatsoever. Even in UNRANKED, people were cheating. It's bad.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Arnox.5128

[captrowdy.9561]

Pvp has gone down hill in mmos. Lol I just play a few matches till I get in a rage and it’s back to wvw 

[LSD.4673]

Stomps are common on the bottom end of automated matchmaking. I remember 10 years ago when i started in DotA2, it was appalling how often a match was a stomp on either side. Later, once i got better and got into the very high bracket, stomps stopped being a thing. There were comebacks, and a feeling as though you're actually contributing.

 

GW2's PvP is notorious for how little Anet does about bots, and as a whole, it's in a terrible state. But swing matches aren't the problem. They're just "to be expected".

[SlayerXX.7138]

11 hours ago, Anatolian Turk.4057 said:

The matches i lost it wasnt close, we got stomped.. After 10 years of gw2 being released, can someone tell me how the match making is still broken

Low player population. Also funnily enough the high skill expression of a 10 Year old MMO. If you have like 10k people in ranked, 9 trait lines per 9 Professions with different gear and utility options there are many things you can do right or wrong. In addition to that you have noobs and 10 year veterans in the q. If you add to that the normal variance PvP Games can have, tilt from players and matchups diff it is a wonder we even get even games. Also lacking game knowledge is likely kittening you over. Especially with the to be expected powercreep that did happen. Examples:

Shoutsworn is high value in rare "stats" with all its sustain and decent damage. So you either have to ignore or focus it no in-between. If you or you team fail to do that you gonna have a bad time. Similar with harbringer who needs to be fought with Steath, range or projectile denial. The spec is high value and needs to be fought around. A couple of season i played a Meme Daredevil Dagger dagger build with the trait that cleanses condition on dodge. People as high as gold 2 happily attacked into my 12 dodges cleansing me. Giving me insane value I shouldn't have gotten.

Speaking of thief and incompetence. People to this day don't know how Points work in Conquest below Plat. If you play a mobile class like thief or similar and know how the points work you can stabilize most games. A plat player playing placement may still kitten some games over. The weakening of Bunkers and the mobility creep just reveals that halve the PvP base doesn't know how Conquest functions. 90/500 in bunkerless, mobility meta would have been 250/500 a couple of years ago.

Tldr: MMO PvP is hard. Veterans are in the q. Game knowledge is king. PvP is in a reasonable spot actually. With a little bit of "Homework" and an eye on Points you should be able to stabilize most game and rank up to your actual skill level. Don't forget: halve the people in the q play the game for 5+ years:).

[Izzy.2951]

8 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

Stomps are common on the bottom end of automated matchmaking. I remember 10 years ago when i started in DotA2, it was appalling how often a match was a stomp on either side. Later, once i got better and got into the very high bracket, stomps stopped being a thing. There were comebacks, and a feeling as though you're actually contributing.

 

GW2's PvP is notorious for how little Anet does about bots, and as a whole, it's in a terrible state. But swing matches aren't the problem. They're just "to be expected".

Actually i dont think that is pretty realistic. I play on Master elo in SMITE, and i can tell you is much more easy to comeback in a low elo match, or to get stomped by a minor error in a high elo match.

Yeah the game may be more exciting, but a minor error in high elo will make top tier players to abuse you in any posible way, and they likely wont make stupid mistakes or random plays so you have much breathing room for a comeback. While in noob elo, its much more easy to make certain plays and win the match, or just let the enemy team throw hard.

In SMITE gold/platinum you can see 1 or 2 good players carry their team that was hard losing.. While in diamond/master if ur losing hard thats just a surrender cos ur not gonna come back 99,99%.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Skorpis.4372]

Turning off chat makes pvp somewhat bareable.

[Bunny.9834]

Here’s how match making works:

You win 5 games in a row.

Game: Ok that’s enough. 

You get crappiest team for the next 10 matches. 

[Westenev.5289]

The current meta (gold and below) is:

 

Step A ~ Run out from spawn

Step B ~ Die mid

Step C ~ Respawn, ensuring your respawn timers with your teammates are staggered.

Step D ~  Engage an outnumbered 1v3 fight, OR 1v1 an enemy bruiser off point.

Step E ~ If nobody on your team saw you die, does that mean you never died at all?

Step F ~ Repeat from Step C.

 

Even without taking into account player skill, is it any wonder most games end in a stomp nobody really wants to play after 150 to 200 points have been accumulated?

Edited August 29, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[pukish.5784]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:41 PM, Anatolian Turk.4057 said:

after 9 years later i was pushed to do pvp to unlock the decade cape back skin, i thought 10 matches wasn't too bad....so after getting my cape i decided to do ranked pvp , to try it out...i lost one match after another until i was on a 4 match losing streak, the 5th match was filled with bots and i lost that 90-500. Now i am on 5th game losing streak. The matches i lost it wasnt close, we got stomped.. After 10 years of gw2 being released, can someone tell me how the match making is still broken?? the teams are so unbalanced...teams filled with bots and afkers....broken claases stll exist?? im shocked to see the dark side of gw2, which made me sad since i like this game a lot.

Bots are ok for me they are funny and they never make me irritating. You know...you know....reality is way too much worse than AI things. I mean some sort of humans.

[Carnage.6751]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:41 AM, Anatolian Turk.4057 said:

broken claases stll exist??

Bro they are thrived with End of Dragons.Because rather than balance  to game A-net selling new classes as power fantasy.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Carnage.6751

[Leger.3724]

22 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

Pvp has gone down hill in mmos. Lol I just play a few matches till I get in a rage and it’s back to wvw 

 

I'm sure to an extent it has gone downhill but it's probably not as big a drop as people think. The difference between now and 10 years ago was that MOBAs were in their infancy. I don't see a way to bridge the gap either. Are you going to play the game with 10,000 unique monthly players or the game with over 100 million unique monthly players? Add in MOBAs generally speaking are simpler games and why pick an mmo's pvp over them? Do I want to remember 40 skills in my head for a particular match or 100+ skills? Do I want clear visual cues attached to the unique skills or do I want a giant clusterkitten?