Earning mount skins in game

[kharmin.7683]

10 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think you'll find that most players do not have anywhere near 1300 gold. So I think you probably would be rich by most comparisons. 

 

Perhaps.  According to gw2efficiency, I was only at 962 about a year ago.  I just didn't find anything appealing in the gem store so I hadn't converted over until around August 3 of this year when I purchased gems for equipment slots (which had gone on sale).  At that point I had accumulated almost 1700 gold just by playing casually (very!) and completing dailies from time to time.

Also, according to the site, my current gold stash is higher than 86% of the registered users there, so yeah you may have a point.  😉

13 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

All they need to do is save gold or gems and set a threshold not to spend below that threshold. But yeah....instant gratification is a powerful thing.

Yeah, I try to stay over 1300 or 1000 if I can so that when something shows up in the store that I want, I don't have to worry too much about the conversion rate.  I'd love to see gems back down in the 70g range again, though!!

[Southerncarl.2740]

32 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

I can only speak for myself, but Prestigious things for me aren't so much about showing them off (store bought shinies fulfil just that purpose), but about the ingame journey and accomplishment they generally represent. Their connection to the ingame world.  

Do I still remember store bought items in MMO's from almost two decades ago now? Very little to nothing - even though they probably were the fanciest things to show off. 

Do I still remember some of the cool (and at the time sometimes frustrating) ingame journeys to earn some cool ingame prestige items, especially if it involved grouping and forming connections while overcoming challenges? Dang right I do. 

 

Taking the Decade Armor as a minor recent example, which while really just being "replay a bunch of old/starter content to populate those zones so the game doesn't look dead for the steam launch", I actually had some fun doing that. Seeing and replaying that content again is simply not an idea I would have had otherwise, and it was nice to relive those memories. 

If the Decade Armor had just been a Gemstore skin, I could have logged in, bought it and logged out (although I probably wouldn't have even done that, because I'm not keen enough on the skin to buy it - but rather I was interested in the feeling of a journey of working towards it, than the skin itself). 

But even if I had wanted that skin and it was sold on the store, and even if I would have had the idea to experience these starting zones again, that surely wouldn't have even remotely earned enough gold/gems for the armor - so I probably would have just defaulted to some efficient gold maker, rather than than aimlessly wandering around in starting zones. 

 

Ingame rewards like that offer unique targeted opportunities, like populating specific content, like crafting designed journeys, which store items just can't replicate.

 

What many here also don't understand is that (at least for me) it's not about not being able to buy store items/just getting things. I've been playing GW2 since the Beta/early access - I can buy anything and everything with gold converted to gems that I want. If I just wanted "Stuff", this would be a hugely beneficial system for me.

But for me it's about the desire for engaging, gameplay focused, ingame journeys with clear goals. It's about missing that feeling of seeing a player ingame with x skin and thinking, cool, they did y content to get that. Of things being rooted in and connected to the game world. 

How cool was the Obsidian Armor in GW1, not because it was flashy to show off, but because you knew where it came from, what players went through to get it - and it's skins being adorned with the very Obsidian Shards used in it's making, reflecting it's origin and ingame journey.

 

It's a similar reason in essence of why people like hand made items over mass produced factory goods. 

There just is a different emotional/psychological connection to things where you know where they came from and what went into them, etc., over just choosing any occupation, earning generic currency and then grabbing it off the store shelf.

While there is merit in the store bought convenience, even in video games, Games are imo far more engaging when they focus on (or at last provide in reasonable quantities)  gameplay focused ingame adventures, over play whatever you want and then interface with the ingame store. 

 

And I also don't entirely agree with the sentiment of a skin for example being tied to WvW, you disliking WvW, and therefor never being able to get the skin. If you overcome that adversity of not enjoying WvW, there is a good chance you'll treasure whatever reward you'll get from that more than any store item you ever bought - and these things always provide an opportunity for players to fall in love with content that they previously thought they would hate - while giving devs the opportunity to populate certain content that might not be the highest g/h, which let's be honest is what they usually gravitate towards.

So even when that may suck in the moment/initially, that's not all bad either. 

Adversity, and overcoming it, is part of the gaming experience and a strength of the medium - not something to ruthlessly commercialize out of them.

 

Well said this is a great way of explaining it.

[Southerncarl.2740]

36 minutes ago, Sarius.9285 said:

and what defines fun lol? For some(actually most) people it's fun to work towards a goal that's not easy to obtain and not everyone has, which sadly doesn't exist in gw2, which is in part why the game will never be as big as the 3 other big mmos

 

 

Gw2 isn't bad and I played it for thousands of hours. But that's a big downside of it

 

Personally I think its better for the player experience if what you do in the world matters which usually means overcoming some sort of challenge or hard goal in the game and then being rewarded for that. It's a much more fulfilling experience IMO. The moment the reward can be purchased with real world money it's devalues the accomplishment and the integrity of the game and makes the experience a lot more hollow and less immersive.

 

I think it's because it brings the outside world into the fantasy world of guild wars. If a legitimate way you can get items in the game is just do more overtime hours your real world job and buy everything then it just makes me not want to play the game.

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Southerncarl.2740 said:

 

Personally I think its better for the player experience if what you do in the world matters which usually means overcoming some sort of challenge or hard goal in the game and then being rewarded for that. It's a much more fulfilling experience IMO. The moment the reward can be purchased with real world money it's devalues the accomplishment and the integrity of the game and makes the experience a lot more hollow and less immersive.

 

I think it's because it brings the outside world into the fantasy world of guild wars. If a legitimate way you can get items in the game is just do more overtime hours your real world job and buy everything then it just makes me not want to play the game.

That's your opinion, and that's fine.  Not everyone wants that sort or level of challenge.  Some find real world jobs plenty challenging and they use their rewards from those to purchase things in GW2.  I'm glad that Anet has this type of thing so that players have multiple avenues to obtain the things that they want, especially things that in no way affect how one plays the game or one's ability to complete content.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That's your opinion, and that's fine.  Not everyone wants that sort or level of challenge.  Some find real world jobs plenty challenging and they use their rewards from those to purchase things in GW2.  I'm glad that Anet has this type of thing so that players have multiple avenues to obtain the things that they want, especially things that in no way affect how one plays the game or one's ability to complete content.

The thing is you don't need to ADD any challenges to place mounts in the game, you can just add rewards for challenges that exist and always have. Some could drop mounts rarely, some could be guaranteed (and awarded to people with the achievement). It would be cool to get glider skins from some of those more infamous jumping puzzles for example. And people who do Harvest Temple challenge mode should get a unique mount and no I am not one of those people.

 

I think having rewards for in game achievements makes the game feel more alive and vast. Take World of Warcraft as an example (yes, yes subscription, I know, I'm talking experiences here though). In WoW I was never, EVER anywhere in the same time zone as people going for the Scarab Lord title and the mount connected to it. But to this day people who got that mount when the game came out turn heads. Someone looks at you and knows you did a very long, extremely difficult quest chain that only a few per server could do. A quest that took your entire guild to help that brought you across the world, through dungeons and end game raids. A more modest example is boss mount drops. A shop mount might be more shiny and well designed but looking at it doesn't tell you that player's story. They swiped a credit card.  There are also collection achievement mounts like in FFXIV you can get a mount for collecting a huge number of Triple Triad cards. Casual players can do this, but it's a time investment.

[Hashberry.4510]

I played WoW for 10 years, god I hated every thing about that loot system. I play this game because I like this loot system much better. Its the reason many players are here. Let the kids spam chat with their pointless mount skins in the other games.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

The loot system in WoW can be bonkers but borrowing how it gives mounts sometimes for a few skins? Well I think that would be neat. Some rare drops, some guaranteed if you do something cool.

 

It doesn't mean suddenly getting WoW's gear treadmill.

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That's your opinion, and that's fine.  Not everyone wants that sort or level of challenge.  Some find real world jobs plenty challenging and they use their rewards from those to purchase things in GW2.  I'm glad that Anet has this type of thing so that players have multiple avenues to obtain the things that they want, especially things that in no way affect how one plays the game or one's ability to complete content.

I agree that options are great, but this is a huge misconception in any case. MTX drastically altered how people play games, because they altered how games are designed. 

MTX made it so that designing engaging gameplay and reward systems has come in direct conflict with making money (including the whole design problems, sell the solutions issue). 

I think many GW2 players like the idea of being able to just buy skins in the gemstore - because the alternative is usually terribly grindy, boring and convoluted collections through the unfit for purpose Achievement System. 

Frankly I take a Gemstore purchase over waypointing around for hours to press on F on things while juggling the Wiki too. 

 

The thing is though that it doesn't have to be that way. Games used to be and can just be fun, including working towards unlocks, customisation options etc. These progressions systems were integrated into the core gameplay loop, they were part of the course of games - and not just for super high end achievements or tucked away into grindy collections, but exploration, story progression, etc. 

 

See for example how progression in Valheim works (an MTX free indie game made by ~3 people which sold 5 million copies in it's first month, and over 10 million in a year). Getting new Armor upgrades with unique skins, base customisations, gameplay options, etc. is just the game, as much as it's combat, building and other core systems - rather than a separate entity relegated to collections, high end challenges or a store.

 

The impact of MTX is that while getting the outfits of the Dragon's Watch members for example might have been engaging individual companion quests of getting to know them better in the past, earning us their armor in the end, now it's just an MTX in the store.

Because why spent money on writing and designing a rewarding gameplay and story experience to enrich the game, when you can just make money selling an existing asset without effort instead. 

And ofc games need to make money, but there is a balance to be struck here of providing worthwhile gameplay with worthwhile rewards, and supporting future development. 

And in that regard I have to agree that 99.99% of skins for expansion features (Gliders, Mounts, Jade Bots) being in the Gemstore is a let down, and loss for the game.

And sure, ingame earnable Mount skins detract to some extend from cash shop mount skin purchases - but on the other hand players who are happy and immersed in gameplay experiences and progression also spent more money than players who feel like they are playing around in a online stores showroom - and players who mainly derive satisfaction from earning things ingame likely aren't the biggest spenders on cosmetics anyway, but might stick around to buy more QoL for example, if the game provided that satisfaction to them.

[Trogs.1802]

On 8/31/2022 at 8:44 AM, Scalacious.4139 said:

Because gold is the perfect currency, as it is universally earned. If you lock mount skins behind raid currency, only raiders will get them and you get complains from all other players. But everybody can earn gold.
The only thing that would somewhat be fair is that if all modes, like sPvP, WvW, PvE and OW get their own set of mount skins, so almost everybody as some way or another to get them.

You do realize in order to convert gold to gems someone has to buy gems for gold?

If literally no one is converting gems to gold you wouldn't be able to convert your gold to gems. Thus invalidating your argument of "just farm gold and buy it off the store". Because if everyone did that, then there'd be no more gems. 

Someone always has to spend real life currency. And people will. The argument is for more ways to obtain skins without the need for ANYONE to have to swipe a card first.  Which people should honestly be okay with (not necessarily super rng rewards) but at least an achievement reward from all different content. 

People have become too comfortable with mtx, yes it's a way that the game can stay funded. But there's a difference between earning enough to develop content, pay your people, and maintain servers.. and just lining the pockets of greedy corporations (NCSoft).

 

[Rendalmj.3152]

I disagree 100% with maker of this thread. Mount skins should stay in gemstore. If you want other ways to get your mount let me give you ideas : 

 

1. Grind gold and buy mount skin in gemstore. This is better than running the same dungeons or raids over and over again and get kitten by rng. I play wow for 10 years and that one mount called invicible  is not drop yet for me so i quit wow 

 

2. Make your own quest!. If you want jungle themed mount make yourself a quest to do octovine 10 times then go buy the skin in gemstore after the tenth octovine kill. Like i said again its better than relying on rng for the mount skin to drop when you can just  buy straight from gemstore.

 

3. Make Your Own Achievement ! . For example if ur wvw player go and kill 50 enemy players and then when you did kill 50 players go buy yourself a new wvw skin!

Edited September 2, 2022 by Rendalmj.3152
More ideeas

[Southerncarl.2740]

14 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

I played WoW for 10 years, god I hated every thing about that loot system. I play this game because I like this loot system much better. Its the reason many players are here. Let the kids spam chat with their pointless mount skins in the other games.

 

In all seriousness do you think it's okay for a game where you paid for the base game and 3 expansions to have 1 mount skin for each mount(the default skin) that is achievable in the game and over 307 mount skins(this doesn't even include glider skins) that are only available on the cash shop? They couldn't add a few more skins achievable from a quest or event or anything even related to any part of the in the game world? Where is this loot system you are talking about? It's all on the store.

[Southerncarl.2740]

3 hours ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I disagree 100% with maker of this thread. Mount skins should stay in gemstore. If you want other ways to get your mount let me give you ideas : 

 

1. Grind gold and buy mount skin in gemstore. This is better than running the same dungeons or raids over and over again and get kitten by rng. I play wow for 10 years and that one mount called invicible  is not drop yet for me so i quit wow 

 

2. Make your own quest!. If you want jungle themed mount make yourself a quest to do octovine 10 times then go buy the skin in gemstore after the tenth octovine kill. Like i said again its better than relying on rng for the mount skin to drop when you can just  buy straight from gemstore.

 

3. Make Your Own Achievement ! . For example if ur wvw player go and kill 50 enemy players and then when you did kill 50 players go buy yourself a new wvw skin!

 

It doesn't have to be rng man. Everyone automatically thinks of the wow loot system. It doesn't have to be like that they could be rewards from doing a quest, 100% completing a certain zone or a reward for the first time you complete a world event/world boss or finish a group of story chapters etc. It doesn't have to be.....do a dungeon...not get skin.....do dungeon again.....not get skin....repeated. There's no sense of memorable achievement or character progression if you can just buy something on a store with real money.

 

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Southerncarl.2740 said:

 

 There's no sense of memorable achievement or character progression if you can just buy something on a store with real money.

 

There is more to character progression than mount skins. I didn’t buy my legendary armor sets, the WvW and PvP legendary backpack or my legendary weapons with real money and for me they give me a sense of memorable achievements and character progression. 

[MarkoGold.7126]

Not only should mount skins be obtainable from in game activities but black lion weapon skins should drop as well.

[Southerncarl.2740]

7 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

There is more to character progression than mount skins. I didn’t buy my legendary armor sets, the WvW and PvP legendary backpack or my legendary weapons with real money and for me they give me a sense of memorable achievements and character progression. 

We know there are a lot of other forms of progression in the game otherwise we wouldn't play it but the OP was just asking for a few more mounts available by just doing things in the game world is it really such a big thing to ask for? and by a few more mounts we mean more than just the default skin for each mount.............is this really a game breaking thing we are asking for are we really asking for too much? 

 

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tlwum

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Southerncarl.2740 said:

We know there are a lot of other forms of progression in the game otherwise we wouldn't play it but the OP was just asking for a few more mounts available by just doing things in the game world is it really such a big thing to ask for? and by a few more mounts we mean more than just the default skin for each mount.............is this really a game breaking thing we are asking for are we really asking for too much? 

 

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tlwum

It’s not a game breaking thing and it is not too much to ask. I just think it’s better that they are in the game store. I can play the content I want and get them and I am not forced to play specific content in order to get them. 
 

[Hashberry.4510]

2 hours ago, Southerncarl.2740 said:

Where is this loot system you are talking about?

This loot system rewards me for everything I do, playing is a constant evolution towards a shiny goal, plus I am doing things I enjoy instead of slogging through an encounter over and over. I know this does not work for everyone though. Good luck.

[Asum.4960]

9 hours ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I disagree 100% with maker of this thread. Mount skins should stay in gemstore. If you want other ways to get your mount let me give you ideas : 

 

1. Grind gold and buy mount skin in gemstore. This is better than running the same dungeons or raids over and over again and get kitten by rng. I play wow for 10 years and that one mount called invicible  is not drop yet for me so i quit wow 

 

2. Make your own quest!. If you want jungle themed mount make yourself a quest to do octovine 10 times then go buy the skin in gemstore after the tenth octovine kill. Like i said again its better than relying on rng for the mount skin to drop when you can just  buy straight from gemstore.

 

3. Make Your Own Achievement ! . For example if ur wvw player go and kill 50 enemy players and then when you did kill 50 players go buy yourself a new wvw skin!

If that works for you, I'm genuinely happy for you. To me it sounds kind of sad that players have to imagine/"design" their own quests to trick themselves about just buying some MTX in the store in a more engaging way, because the game almost completely fails at providing that experience. Reminds me a bit of that sketch of a guy walking through the supermarket with a bow and arrow, shooting all the food before grabbing it, pretending to be on an hunting adventure. 

 

I agree with disliking the super rare RNG drop part - we already have this with infusions, which esp. since tradeable, just turn into Baron playthings rather than being any value add to the game for the playerbase at large. 

It's also kind of sad (although understandable) to me though that many players don't even seem to be able to conceptualize good, fun and well designed progression systems anymore, especially for cosmetics - because developers have made them worse and worse and worse over the years to train their audiences to embrace and prefer MTX purchases as (then) better alternative. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Asum.4960

[ProtoGunner.4953]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:12 AM, Southerncarl.2740 said:

 

It doesn't have to be rng man. Everyone automatically thinks of the wow loot system. It doesn't have to be like that they could be rewards from doing a quest, 100% completing a certain zone or a reward for the first time you complete a world event/world boss or finish a group of story chapters etc. It doesn't have to be.....do a dungeon...not get skin.....do dungeon again.....not get skin....repeated. There's no sense of memorable achievement or character progression if you can just buy something on a store with real money.

 

I absolutely support your opinion! Many counterarguments of the GW2 gemstore defenders try to invalidate our arguments with all the typical bad habits old MMOs had. WTF guys, really.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:44 AM, yoni.7015 said:

It’s not a game breaking thing and it is not too much to ask. I just think it’s better that they are in the game store. I can play the content I want and get them and I am not forced to play specific content in order to get them. 
 

Most mount skins can still be on the store, they would have to be. Some added to the game won't  stop people from grinding gold to get gems to get mount skins from the shop.

 

And I'm not even talking about a hypothetical situation where we get big quest chains, I'm talking about adding skins to achievements and loot tables that already exist. Rare mounts from dungeons that can also be purchased with dungeon currency so one doesn't have to just chain run into eternity. Guaranteed skins from raids and achievements and maybe certain fractals. Rare skins that drop randomly from chests with increased odds from bigger chests and skimmer skins that can be obtained from fishing (achievement or random drop). (In the case of these overworld random drops it's not really something you work towards, just a fun thing to get by engaging in the open world). Glider skins from epic jump puzzles.

 

I understand that some people might not like the acquisition methods I am describing, and that's fine. They are just examples, honestly. The important bottom line is that the ways one could get the skins are already in the game.

 

And I do think ArenaNet needs to think about this. Mounts are a huge deal in GW2 and people will go well out of their way to obtain all the mounts. This is awesome. But they can't keep adding mounts into perpetuity. Eventually we will have every possible traversal type covered and won't be able to add more without making the existing mounts redundant. We might already be there. So how can we excite players and get them into the world and doing things? Skins for the mounts.

Edited September 7, 2022 by RadiantWolf.2058

[Gibson.4036]

I don't get why people are so against the idea. Clearly they make enough money on gemstore and BL weapons (through keys) to keep producing them, even though the majority of weapon skins are available in game.

Having a few skins for each mount available in game is a way to keep putting rewards behind new content that doesn't require a new gear tier, and wouldn't have to diminish gem store sales. It's also a way to whet player's appetite for mount skins. It's easier to be content with just having the base skins. Once you have an alternate skin or two, it opens you up to looking at the gemstore and wondering if another skin would be nice.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Beast Sos.1457]

26 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I don't get why people are so against the idea. Clearly they make enough money on gemstore and BL weapons (through keys) to keep producing them, even though the majority of weapon skins are available in game.

Having a few skins for each mount available in game is a way to keep putting rewards behind new content that doesn't require a new gear tier, and wouldn't have to diminish gem store sales. It's also a way to wet player's appetite for mount skins. It's easier to be content with just having the base skins. Once you have an alternate skin or two, it opens you up to looking at the gemstore and wondering if another skin would be nice.

I agree 100%. It makes no sense to me that players are against having earnable mount skins from in game content. Its really mind boggling. No one is asking for them not to sell any in the gems store but certain content should have at least one skin for each mount, ie fractal mount set, raid mount set, strike mount set, world completion mount set, etc. The replay value would be amazing for the game. 

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

I agree 100%. It makes no sense to me that players are against having earnable mount skins from in game content. Its really mind boggling. No one is asking for them not to sell any in the gems store but certain content should have at least one skin for each mount, ie fractal mount set, raid mount set, strike mount set, world completion mount set, etc. The replay value would be amazing for the game. 

It is because we have seen how Anet implement mount skins in game already.

So pve would be equal or worse then this one and people think it is not worth spending dev resources on.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guildrider_Warclaw_Skin_Reward_Track

[Ashen.2907]

I haven't seen anyone suggest what should have its monetization increased to offset reduced monetization of one of the game's major sources of income.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

On 9/1/2022 at 1:49 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Just earning gold and then carrying that gold to the store might be more convenient for the player, but convenience always comes at a very real cost to game integrity. 

 

Working in an office all day to earn money to be able to go to a store to buy a painting of a beautiful mountain scene, just isn't the same as setting out on an adventure to travel there yourself to paint it. 

It's just much easier, sure, but equally less satisfying and memorable.

 

A very interesting conversation. In general I really agree with a lot of what Asum has said. I'm into playing for story and the memories of my actual achievements (I don't mean the in game achievements, I mean goals I feel good about having achieved). That generally requires a decent level of challenge. It helps if there is also a nice reward at the end of it, something which you will remind you of the achievement whenever you see it. So more quests which lead to "cool rewards" (cool enough that you keep using/seeing them for a while) sound great.

This is obviously somewhat in conflict with the F2P monetization as ArenaNet also need plenty of those cool rewards in their gem shop so that people will keep paying money. I can also understand why ArenaNet might want to keep some categories of rewards almost entirely gem shop based rather than risking diluting their income stream by making some of them (eg mount skins) earnable in world. Yes, if people get a few mount skins from gameplay quests that might incentivise them to spend more on gemstore skins, but it could go the other way too and maybe ArenaNet don't want to take that risk.

Hopefully though there is still room for more other cool rewards which are earnable from quests, as that is the sort of thing that motivates players like me. Equally I hope those quests will actually be fun quests rather than excessively grinding! If the quest isn't interesting and/or fun then the whole thing falls apart and you may as well just go back to grinding gold in your favourite gold to buy things on the gemstore.