Something has to be done about living world season costs

[Miragen.6127]

Man, this community. 

[Gorem.8104]

What Anet should do, and should have done with either the tenth Anni or the release of EoD, is made living worlds 1-5 free forever so you only need to buy the 3 expansions. 

But Anet has always sucked at Marketing, I mean the main people I Saw them marketing EoD too, was people currently playing gw2 already who they didn't need to market to. 

[Gorem.8104]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:19 PM, Mortime.1359 said:

I don't even want to know how much I've paid for WoW over the 16 years that I've played it. All the expansions + montly sub + occasional race and faction changes. GW2 is seriously cheap if you don't get the urge to buy every single cosmetic put into the TP.

Do people forget that to know this, you must already know GW2? When marketing to new players, who know nothing about GW2, how would they know that its a good deal or not? All they see is an expensive price tag. They don't know why its "cheap" for what you get. 

Every single argument I see for the living world price tag, is always by people who play gw2 and know what you are getting already beforehand. Not new players who have no idea. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Miragen.6127]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Do people forget that to know this, you must already know GW2? When marketing to new players, who know nothing about GW2, how would they know that its a good deal or not? All they see is an expensive price tag. They don't know why its "cheap" for what you get. 

Every single argument I see for the living world price tag, is always by people who play gw2 and know what you are getting already beforehand. Not new players who have no idea. 

 

No one is willing to accept this though, almost every person arguing against all and any form of criticism of this game and Anet are 10-15y veterans that refuse to acknowledge issues.

I said the same thing about how there should have been a sale with the Steam release but the arguments mostly just ended with people telling me to stop playing the game.

 

[Xerxez.7361]

You're basically asking for Free DLC. Nothing that "impacts" gameplay is locked behind Living World Seasons. Not to mention you can get the Living World Seasons for free by converting Gold into Gems.

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

What Anet should do, and should have done with either the tenth Anni or the release of EoD, is made living worlds 1-5 free forever so you only need to buy the 3 expansions. 

But Anet has always sucked at Marketing, I mean the main people I Saw them marketing EoD too, was people currently playing gw2 already who they didn't need to market to. 

Yes and make it cost 60 hot, 50 pof and 50 Eod but with free season 2-5.

I am ok with that.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

No one is willing to accept this though, almost every person arguing against all and any form of criticism of this game and Anet are 10-15y veterans that refuse to acknowledge issues.

 

 

Because there is no issue to acknowledge.  Anet has made it possible to purchase chapters with gems.  Players may either buy gems with cash or convert gold to gems.  For a non-sub game, that's pretty generous.

[Tinker.6924]

Living worlds 2-4 are like mini-xpacs are priced accordingly.  LW4 in particular is nearly as big as PoF and introduces new functionality with a the beetle and skyscale mounts.  IBS is underwhelming and you could argue that it should be free.  I certainly wonder what could have been if IBS wasn't interrupted by Covid.  

[stormemperor.3745]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:59 AM, Eraser.9860 said:

Hi, 

I have been playing since 2012 and I had a few friends who started with steam and are really enjoying the game. We have gone through all base content and all season 1 episodes that are available. 

They wanted to go ahead and move to season 2 while we wait for more episodes for season 1 but were really discouraged to find they had to pay an extra $20 for season 2. They had already bought HOT and POF and were really disappointed. They eventually decided not to purchase. Something really needs to be done about the cost of the living world seasons. I personally think they're too costly and turning people away from the game. Thoughts?

Had your friends started gw2 last year instead of waiting for steam they would have all lws for free.

It is your fault for being bad friend and not pulling them into gw2 sooner.

[Miragen.6127]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Because there is no issue to acknowledge.  

 

Yeah, that is basically the answer I expected.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

Man, this community. 

Yeah, people suggesting anet should encourage players to wait out the new releases to get "free content on a fixed schedule" commenting about marketing are totally concerned with anet making money and aren't doing it for their selfish reasons. 😉 

I can probably understand s1/2 going free (although making story content also takes up resources), but the rest adds quite a lot of playable content along with new maps.

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

Lws3,4 and 5, bring other contents and QoL purchases, also has great maps. Lws4 brings 2 new mounts too. 

 

All of these lW seasons are like a mini expansions, its one thing to give it for free but they even give it as cheaper prices, individually episodes too.

 

It's fair to either wait for the discount,or get it for free, or pay full price.

 

I paid for lws4 cause it was worth it (the story alone I loved it).

[Cuks.8241]

6 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Every single argument I see for the living world price tag, is always by people who play gw2 and know what you are getting already beforehand. Not new players who have no idea. 

And funnily most got them for free. 

[DexterousGecko.6328]

4 hours ago, Miragen.6127 said:

 

No one is willing to accept this though, almost every person arguing against all and any form of criticism of this game and Anet are 10-15y veterans that refuse to acknowledge issues.

 

You just summed up this whole forum lol

[Gorem.8104]

5 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

You're basically asking for Free DLC. Nothing that "impacts" gameplay is locked behind Living World Seasons. Not to mention you can get the Living World Seasons for free by converting Gold into Gems.

 

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Because there is no issue to acknowledge.  Anet has made it possible to purchase chapters with gems.  Players may either buy gems with cash or convert gold to gems.  For a non-sub game, that's pretty generous.

 

Again, again I say HOW does a new person know this? HOW? Explain to me how someone who has never played gw2, never logged in, never seen the microtransaction systems, has no idea you can trade gold for gems, know you can get the living worlds free? Know you can get them by playing over a long period? 
Once again, the only arguments against the game being better for new players, are by veterans. We all got the living worlds free by being logged in, most people did not have to pay, so explain how its better for new players to see a multi hundred dollar price tag for gw2 in some countries? 

They should only have to pay for the expac. We won't get new players by over charging them for a product they have no idea about. 

[Xerxez.7361]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

 

Again, again I say HOW does a new person know this? HOW? Explain to me how someone who has never played gw2, never logged in, never seen the microtransaction systems, has no idea you can trade gold for gems, know you can get the living worlds free? Know you can get them by playing over a long period? 
Once again, the only arguments against the game being better for new players, are by veterans. We all got the living worlds free by being logged in, most people did not have to pay, so explain how its better for new players to see a multi hundred dollar price tag for gw2 in some countries? 

They should only have to pay for the expac. We won't get new players by over charging them for a product they have no idea about. 

 

I found out by noticing there was a tab to trade gold for gems and that living world seasons were sold for gems instead of $ in the gem store. Then I put two and two together. It's not like you have no time to browse the in game store.

[Labjax.2465]

3 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

And funnily most got them for free. 

Yep. Meanwhile there are people who paid for it who say it should be a better deal.

In most situations, the standard is "you get a better deal" (on the surface price level) for being a late adopter. GW2 even follows this standard with expansion prices. But for some reason, it is the reverse with LW and people defend it as if that's just how business works.

And the reason for that standard "better deal" for being a late adopter isn't a charitable one, but is a simple practical one to widen the net, so to speak. The people who paid full price for this game over the years (not including LW) might have paid more on a surface level than even a latecomer now including the cost of LW, but they also got to experience the product for longer and with a game like this, got to experience it more at its zenith during some of its best times. That's why I say surface level, cause there is that underlying part where people who were early/earlier adopters did get something out of it that late adopters now simply can't / never will be able to get. The sheer time spent, the experiences of being there during release, all that type of stuff that is a part of an MMO experience you can't directly buy. Even more so with a game like this where much of the content is open world and the way you experience it is directly tied to how popular it still is, how people play it, etc.

For example, some people are never gonna experience getting far in on Chak Gerent (short of major nerfs to player power somewhere along the way). The standard experience now is either you fail the pres on one of the lanes, or you kill it in 1 go, maximum of 2. Whether that really matters much as an experience to anyone, idk, but just trying to put it in specific terms what I mean here. Even instanced story content, which is the most closed / stays the same kind of content, will not be the same for a later player because of power creep. That might be a good thing, depending on if struggling with it would put them off, but the point is, there's no going backwards in time.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

 

Again, again I say HOW does a new person know this? HOW? Explain to me how someone who has never played gw2, never logged in, never seen the microtransaction systems, has no idea you can trade gold for gems, know you can get the living worlds free? Know you can get them by playing over a long period? 
Once again, the only arguments against the game being better for new players, are by veterans. We all got the living worlds free by being logged in, most people did not have to pay, so explain how its better for new players to see a multi hundred dollar price tag for gw2 in some countries? 

They should only have to pay for the expac. We won't get new players by over charging them for a product they have no idea about. 

Maybe new players should read what the game tells them then?

https://images.alt-gr.org/gw2/levels/27b.jpg

Edited September 11, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[RoastedBloop.9817]

Going forwards bundle the next expansion & LW together. Sure, the price of the expac will go up. However, it will stop all this confusion about how LW, expansions are. That will be a better entry & price point for new players coming in to the game. At the moment, it's confusion and price balking from them. 

Edit: *next LW or whatever anet decides to call it. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by CalamityO.2890

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

 

Again, again I say HOW does a new person know this? HOW? Explain to me how someone who has never played gw2, never logged in, never seen the microtransaction systems, has no idea you can trade gold for gems, know you can get the living worlds free? Know you can get them by playing over a long period? 
Once again, the only arguments against the game being better for new players, are by veterans. We all got the living worlds free by being logged in, most people did not have to pay, so explain how its better for new players to see a multi hundred dollar price tag for gw2 in some countries? 

They should only have to pay for the expac. We won't get new players by over charging them for a product they have no idea about. 

How/Why does a new player need LS?  The personal story should be plenty of content and give them the story which would, eventually, lead them to LS at which point they're no longer a new player.

Multi-hundred dollar price tag?  That a new player does not need to pay when they first start the game, but can purchase as they go with either cash or gems?  Methinks thou dost protest too much.

[Silent.6137]

Looking at what Steam has to offer makes me curious why they do not sell LW separately whereas you can purchase the expansions on their own. Just doesn't make any sense. Just buying the LW series will cost more than either of the expansions package. There is no discounts, so why not let the players buy the package individually as they progress through the game? Is this to make sure they can't grind for gold to purchase them later?

Edited September 11, 2022 by Silent.6137

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I don't think it is expensive but I think they should offer it constantly as a package or as an additional option for new players or returning players. For now it looks like: hey here we give you all expansions, oh wait there are some additional 10 and 20 whatever you need to pay for a continuous story. Seems a bit turning off if you ask me.

[casualkenny.9817]

I am offering the following statements about certain groups of players:

 

1) just because I (potential player) can afford it, doesn't mean I should give it to you (seller).

 

2) gw2 is designed to not have true gear progression (thankfully). It does not appeal to or retain the traditional type of mmo player that grinds for gold to upgrade their gear. The main appeal bases that gw2 can retain are collectors (of skins, legs, characters, achieves, infusions, whatever other weird things you can think of). 

 

3) most people generally would find it annoying to hit lvl 80 only to discover limitations, to say the least.

 

4) this is akin to buying a prepaid card of $100+ for something that you aren't emotionally invested into yet. Yea sure, you don't have to have to buy it now now, but it's on the horizon. And it's not very far off, because it becomes relevant once you hit level 80. And yes, of course $100ish is quite a modest sum for the number of hours of future enjoyment, but will you, though? It is not directly comparable with a subscription game - what it is comparable to, if you really wanna compare apples to apples, is buying a 1 yr subscription fee for a game that you play-tested for 1 week. And yes, sure, you can purchase lw separately from expansions, the question is whether you will want to buy the game at all (as a gamer shopping for a game).

 

5) trading gold for gems is a different experience for a vet compared to that for a newbie. There's so many things that a newbie has to farm for. Imagine they randomly pick an episode to unlock first, only to find that it happens to be a dead map, and you get pawned left and right because you're a new player, and there's no one to do the events with, why isn't anyone responding to your questions or requests for help on map chat, what a dud.

 

6) just because info is available, doesn't mean people know where to access it. Yea the wiki contributors and dulfy and others are very awesome, but that means nothing if you don't know what keywords to search for. Most players hate reading (I don't), and are here to play a game, not "just-wiki-it".

[RadiantWolf.2058]

16 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

I found out by noticing there was a tab to trade gold for gems and that living world seasons were sold for gems instead of $ in the gem store. Then I put two and two together. It's not like you have no time to browse the in game store.

The problem is the typical new player isn't going to be able to grind for gold easily without Living World. And it would be Living World they saved for.

 

Also let's take an average new player experience into mind. Imagine you play through the core game and LWS1 and you are eager to go to Heart of Thornes. You do it and people are now talking about jungle dragons and an egg and something about Sylvari. Wait what? Last you knew you were dealing with Scarlet. Did you miss something? Fumble around in the story journal and you will find that yes, you did. And you need to spend real money or stop your story and go back to spend possibly several days grinding to find out what. Then, when you are done with HoT, you get to do it again! And since you used gold to buy Living Worlds you probably won't have the gold you need for the griffon or skyscale.

 

I mean, if this works for some people then hoorah for them but I have to guess way more people are silently churned by this than we know.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

19 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

 

Again, again I say HOW does a new person know this? HOW? Explain to me how someone who has never played gw2, never logged in, never seen the microtransaction systems, has no idea you can trade gold for gems, know you can get the living worlds free? Know you can get them by playing over a long period? 

People are new to the game, not blind. The longest time I've seen someone go without knowing you can convert gold to gems and vice versa was 3 hours.

Open Black Lion Store, "Oh more tabs.. oh, currency conversion and trading post, cool"