"PoF is all about content!" is it?

[zealex.9410]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" BS - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

TBH, PvP, WvW, fractals, and guild missions should not be showcased as part of an expansion because none of them will be - or should be at least - blocked by said expansion.

Go back to HoT's release and the Fractals and WvW stuff talked about. Except for a small handful of fractal things, you do not need to own HoT to get access to any of that. And now, what needed HoT to access (a mastery line, some dailies, and 2 more infusion slots) is now just "own any expansion". And because HoT advertised so many things that actually didn't need HoT, and HoT's team spent time on those things, HoT itself felt even smaller than it was (imagine if instead of Desert BL we got a fifth map in Heart of Maguuma; imagine instead of fractals 51-100 and fractal dailies, the second half of the HoT plot was twice as long; imagine if instead of Stronghold we had a dungeon in HoT... give or take, that could have been things HoT had instead of "released with HoT but not needing HoT" like PvP, WvW, fractals, and guild missions would be if added with PoF).

So it would be best saving that stuff for 2 months after PoF release, letting PoF focus on PvE content that is gated by owning PoF.

Raids and dungeons I can see being part of PoF specific content (just as the current four raid wings are HoT specific content). I'm sure there will be a raid released with or shortly after PoF - there's been enough time for such - and dungeons are... well... yeah.

That is fair and a nice thing from anet to do but alot of ppl dont enjoy open world or pve in general. These ppl should do what stay here and w8 as the devs said "these parts of the game arent tied to an expac". They didnt even say if theres is anything coming for those parts of the game.

[Blaeys.3102]

We can safely assume that guild missions aren't currently on another schedule, unless that schedule is a few additions once every 4.5 years. Hopefully they are fixing that.

The rest will probably continue on the schedule we've seen the past year.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" BS - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

TBH, PvP, WvW, fractals, and guild missions should not be showcased as part of an expansion because none of them will be - or should be at least - blocked by said expansion.

Go back to HoT's release and the Fractals and WvW stuff talked about. Except for a small handful of fractal things, you do not need to own HoT to get access to any of that. And now, what needed HoT to access (a mastery line, some dailies, and 2 more infusion slots) is now just "own any expansion". And because HoT advertised so many things that actually didn't need HoT, and HoT's team spent time on those things, HoT itself felt even smaller than it was (imagine if instead of Desert BL we got a fifth map in Heart of Maguuma; imagine instead of fractals 51-100 and fractal dailies, the second half of the HoT plot was twice as long; imagine if instead of Stronghold we had a dungeon in HoT... give or take, that could have been things HoT had instead of "released with HoT but not needing HoT" like PvP, WvW, fractals, and guild missions would be if added with PoF).

So it would be best saving that stuff for 2 months after PoF release, letting PoF focus on PvE content that is gated by owning PoF.

Raids and dungeons I can see being part of PoF specific content (just as the current four raid wings are HoT specific content). I'm sure there will be a raid released with or shortly after PoF - there's been enough time for such - and dungeons are... well... yeah.

That is fair and a nice thing from anet to do but alot of ppl dont enjoy open world or pve in general. These ppl should do what stay here and w8 as the devs said "these parts of the game arent tied to an expac". They didnt even say if theres is anything coming for those parts of the game.

Honestly, Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 has always been 90% PvE 10% PvP (give or take), so it shouldn't be much surprise that an expansion lacks PvP content (and that would be including both spvp and wvw in GW2's case). Would you expect every - or even every other - Living World release to come with PvP goodies? I wouldn't. Besides all that, I don't think we have really gotten much detail on upcoming changes ever since Colin left in general, let alone for PvP and WvW changes big or small since. The addition of WvW rewards got its announcement and cover, what, a week before release? So we never got much forwarning of upcoming changes/additions before. And this goes towards raids and fractals too.

It'd be nice if Anet had some PvP and WvW content for PoF's release. They very well might and be keeping a lid on it for whatever reason. But most such stuff that they could add reasonably is more likely features rather than content so I wouldn't say the claim "PoF is all about content" to be misleading in any way. And I'd rather they released it when it's ready, and not rush it just so it happens to release with an expansion. Especially since it won't be bound by that expansion.

[Beorn Raukar.4328]

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" BS - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

The truth is the way Path of Fire is presented is related to how the players reacted to the Heart of Thorns expansion. For HoT they had a lot of backlash for every single feature that they announced that was not included in the expansion at launch time. Why were there raids, where is the LS, where are the PvP maps, where are the fractals, where are the legendaries, etc. For this reason they are only announcing the content that is available on day one. Will we get more content after that? Of course, raids, fractals, and both pvp and wvw patches have already been confirmed. But they are not going to risk another backlash if dates get moved around or if things change in design and as such the only way to do that is to not announce the details of these releases.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

They had none of that "backlash" from me because I really was not interested in an expansion to this game I quit right before the release and didnt really care what the expack was because I didnt plan on playing the game again I didnt look back to even see what the expack was... was not excited like I was when they announce gw1 expansions all the weaponsets were already played out which is the entire games worth of skills pretty much with no alteration which is extremely boring/repetitive (5 years and youre still doing the same exact thing with the same weapon), I didnt play hot until after pof beta and really still kinda regret the purchase that i made for it last month, i'd almost rather be able to say I never played it and idk if im going to play the new expack because its not changing absolutely anything my mes gsword will still be the same 5 skills since beta and its completely played out and boring like all the other sets on the other classes.

Conquest is more than enough to make me not have interest for long but theres way more making me lose interest.

[Demeth.5816]

@"R E F L H E X.8413" said:They had none of that "backlash" from me because I really was not interested in an expansion to this game I quit right before the release and didnt really care what the expack was because I didnt plan on playing the game again I didnt look back to even see what the expack was... was not excited like I was when they announce gw1 expansions all the weaponsets were already played out which is the entire games worth of skills pretty much with no alteration which is extremely boring/repetitive (5 years and youre still doing the same exact thing with the same weapon), I didnt play hot until after pof beta and really still kinda regret the purchase that i made for it last month, i'd almost rather be able to say I never played it and idk if im going to play the new expack because its not changing absolutely anything my mes gsword will still be the same 5 skills since beta and its completely played out and boring like all the other sets on the other classes.

Conquest is more than enough to make me not have interest for long but theres way more making me lose interest.

I read all of your posts and my head hurts now. Also you should consider stopping the game if you hate it that much considered to your beloved Gw1.

[feetpicenjoyer.6418]

So how are we feeling about it now, more than a month later?

[Ayrilana.1396]

It felt like it had the same amount of content as HoT only that in this case it wasn’t really replayable.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" BS - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

PoF is also cheaper than HoT. Guess where content cuts were done.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

For me, this expansion offered nothing else but new useful pets for ranger and elite specs. So that's $55CAD for elite specs and three useful new pets. Nice "expanding" lol.

[Blaeys.3102]

@NotASmurf.1725 said:So how are we feeling about it now, more than a month later?

It didnt take a month. The AMA following the launch killed a lot of excitement for many. The idea that the GW2 development team does not consider new guild content to be part of the game in any way was very disheartening, not to mention mindboggling.

I still play with friends, but without something for guilds, it is harder to get excited about the future of the game.

[Ayrilana.1396]

How much “many” is and whether content specifically labeled as guild content matters is debatable.

[Einlanzer.1627]

Yeah, I keep thinking about this as I play through PoF. The advertising was misleading. As much as I like what we did get, in all honesty, it seems to be about the same amount of content we got out of HoT, and arguably a bit less.

I think it's actually sort of inexcusable that we didn't get any of the following:

new weapon typesnew guild missionsnew dungeonsnew PvP/WvW maps/gamemodes (can we please get a third distinct map for borderlands instead of having 2 alpine and 1 desert?)new classesnew racespolish or reworks on older systems like the PS and trait/specializationsmore regular balance updatesnew craft/gathering skills

I wasn't expecting all of it, but I was expecting some of it. Mo needs to do better, or hire someone who can.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" excuse - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

If you're not willing to pay attention to the actual plans for the game, then I'm not sure what anyone can say to make you feel better. The expansion was never, ever intended to include content for fractals, raids, sPvP, or WvW. The teams working on them release that content for no cost as it becomes ready. Don't expect any new stuff for dungeons or g-mish, because there aren't any teams actively working on them.

While it's traditional for MMOs to release instanced and realm content as part of expansions, ANet has chosen to release them at their own pace. Accept it or not, it doesn't change that all the PoF content that was announced was released at its launch. Anything else is planned for later, separate from the expansion.

[troops.8276]

It'd be interesting to know how the revenue and profits(?) of PoF and cash shop sales are used. Making more cash shop items? New game engine for another game? Next excuse to encourage cash shop sales, sorry I mean expansion? How much longer can these fantasy theme parks (mmorpgs) hold an audience?

[Ashen.2907]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" excuse - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

If you're not willing to pay attention to the actual plans for the game, then I'm not sure what anyone can say to make you feel better. The expansion was never, ever intended to include content for fractals, raids, sPvP, or WvW. The teams working on them release that content

for no cost

as it becomes ready. Don't expect any new stuff for dungeons or g-mish, because there aren't any teams actively working on them.

While it's traditional for MMOs to release instanced and realm content as part of expansions, ANet has chosen to release them at their own pace. Accept it or not, it doesn't change that all the PoF content that was announced was released at its launch. Anything else is planned for later, separate from the expansion.

I am not sure that the, "no cost," point applies to raids as they do require an expansion purchase to access.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" excuse - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

If you're not willing to pay attention to the actual plans for the game, then I'm not sure what anyone can say to make you feel better. The expansion was never, ever intended to include content for fractals, raids, sPvP, or WvW. The teams working on them release that content

for no cost

as it becomes ready. Don't expect any new stuff for dungeons or g-mish, because there aren't any teams actively working on them.

While it's traditional for MMOs to release instanced and realm content as part of expansions, ANet has chosen to release them at their own pace. Accept it or not, it doesn't change that all the PoF content that was announced was released at its launch. Anything else is planned for later, separate from the expansion.

I am not sure that the, "no cost," point applies to raids as they do require an expansion purchase to access.

That's a tricky thing to phrase and your point also applies to LS3, so probably it will to LS4 as well. The idea is that there's no additional cost. Significantly, in the context of the original post, there's no cost to the OP, who was making the claim that something is missing from PoF.

To your point, it depends. It might be like fractals, where you can spend a ridiculous amount of coin to have AR/150 and do all the content or you can buy an expansion and have access to many more infusion slots. Or it might be like LS3, where it's completely inaccessible without the relevant expansion.

[Ashen.2907]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@NotASmurf.1725 said:It's all about content as long as you don't care about fractals, dungeons, raids, guild missions, sPvP, WvW.. and don't give me the "they just aren't part of the release schedule!" excuse - fact remains they don't have anything to show for the expansion in those areas.

Sure we get new features like mounts but how is this any different to HoT? At least HoT had Stronghold for PvP, new border for WvW, and raids shortly after release. There might not even be new masteries outside of mounts. How is this expansion not smaller than the previous?

If you're not willing to pay attention to the actual plans for the game, then I'm not sure what anyone can say to make you feel better. The expansion was never, ever intended to include content for fractals, raids, sPvP, or WvW. The teams working on them release that content

for no cost

as it becomes ready. Don't expect any new stuff for dungeons or g-mish, because there aren't any teams actively working on them.

While it's traditional for MMOs to release instanced and realm content as part of expansions, ANet has chosen to release them at their own pace. Accept it or not, it doesn't change that all the PoF content that was announced was released at its launch. Anything else is planned for later, separate from the expansion.

I am not sure that the, "no cost," point applies to raids as they do require an expansion purchase to access.

That's a tricky thing to phrase and your point also applies to LS3, so probably it will to LS4 as well. The idea is that there's no additional cost. Significantly, in the context of the original post, there's no cost to the OP, who was making the claim that something is missing from PoF.

To your point, it depends. It might be like fractals, where you can spend a ridiculous amount of coin to have AR/150 and do all the content or you can buy an expansion and have access to many more infusion slots. Or it might be like LS3, where it's completely inaccessible without the relevant expansion.

I am fine with gating content or features behind a purchase, an expansion in this case, but I think that said cost should not be dismissed when discussing what a player can access. There is a marked difference, IMO, between fractals and raids in this respect.

Functionally, to me, LS, raids, etc are part of the package when buying the expansions. If I have to pay for A to get B then I am paying for A & B. I bought HoT almost exclusively for access to LS3. Were the HoT purchase not required to access LS3 I would have skipled that expansion. Ultimately I guess I am just trying to avoid the portrayal of paid content as free.

[Meestercat.2748]

My guess (hope?) is that Anet has planned to drip feed content into the PoF maps as time goes by. They want people to be able to explore them and get through the story before things like map-wide Meta events roll out.

I think things like HoT style metas work once people have spent time in maps, but introducing them too early can potentially lock people out of content.

[crashburntoo.7431]

I like to view it as a measured release method. The expansion content may seem meager, but purchase of the expansion allows access to LS4 (likely and based on HoT to LS3 connection). The costs, efforts, content, etc. associated to LS4 is at least partially paid for by PoF. There will be supplementary income based on those that miss a chapter and buy it for gems.

Overall, I find their business model to be multi-faceted and robust. What works well for some, doesn't for others, but there are so many options. The fact that the Core is FTP further adds to the overall complexity of what's provided for free, for a price or gated behind account.

[SkyShroud.2865]

I got this feeling gw2 has too much content, can it still be considered casual with this much contents?

[Aeolus.3615]

ANet said that PoF would be 100% pve, any release for pvp and WvW would come from other patch later on game... and if i recall later might mean middle 2018,

[TexZero.7910]

I think this is a fair question strictly because there seems to have been more planned but pulled at launch for some reason.

Still wondering why the book collections for each zone are disabled content just as an example of this.

[Ardid.7203]

So, how much more content offers PoF when compared to HoT? Mounts? Do they count as "content"?

[feetpicenjoyer.6418]

@Ardid.7203 said:So, how much more content offers PoF when compared to HoT? Mounts? Do they count as "content"?

Things like maps and dungeons are content, mounts and waypoints are services, so no.