October 4 Balance Update Preview

[TheBossVeigar.1306]

5 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, back with a quick update:

 

Since the preview we've seen a lot of feedback around the proposed change to convert Scrapper gyros into ground-targeted stationary spells. The main concern we've seen is that this change would remove the unique feeling of the skills without replacing it with something new.

We agree – we'll be reverting the proposed changes and will be making a different set of adjustments to Purge and Sneak Gyro for WvW:

• Sneak Gyro: Reduced stealth duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in WvW only. Reduced number of pulses from 6 to 3 in WvW only. This skill is no longer a smoke field in WvW only. This skill now plays a visual indicator to enemies on activation.
• Purge Gyro: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

 

For clarification, we'll still be changing Defense Field into a ground-targeted skill in the October 4 update.

We'd still like to take a pass on updating the design of Scrapper gyros in the future, but not until we work out a replacement mechanic that feels both unique and fun to use.

As always, thanks to everyone who gave feedback on the upcoming changes; we really appreciate it.

 

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

Can you guys reconsider the Gale Song change for Tempest? It giving protection doesn't make too much sense as Tempest gives plenty already. The stun break is really nice in PvE. A lot of Tempest players - myself included - aren't too happy with the change.

[cgMatt.5162]

31 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Veil is ground target 2sec stealth on a 72s cooldown

Not a great comparison since Veil has no target cap.

[Jeknar.6184]

4 hours ago, Celeste.9135 said:

I don't know but to me it feels like wasting dev time and resources on trying to rework something that mechanically is sound (but may need more number tweaks in certain modes like WvW) instead of for example, reworking something like Deadeye who struggles to be relevant in PVE endgame outside of niche roles while also being controversial in WvW.

It will be interesting to see I guess, I can only hope if you do go through with a different rework to Gyros mechanically that they're more to the liking of Scrapper enjoyers.

I don't think they even used any resources on that... Or did people forget that Scrapper Gyros were originally ground targeted back on Heart of Thorns?

The "reason" behind the revert of this proposed change leaves a bad taste in my mouth though... They want to keep the uniquess of the skills for the class. Meanwhile my class, which also have wells, only have a bad copy-paste of Necromancer wells while having half of their power locked in the last tick which is very unlikely to ever hit anything that moves...

And to add insult to the injury, Prime Light Beam gets it's damage back while Gravity Well, which literally have written on it's tooltip "When it expires, foes still inside the well take Heavy Damage", does not.

45 minutes ago, Dexy.5823 said:

A bit apprehensive here for the change to Gyros in the future. My two cents are that Gyros following the character IS THE thematic that you want/expect when you hear about scrappers. If you can improve on that, great, but to reduce/retract the theme of the class, ugh, you'll turn off a lot of players this way.

Oh don't even get me started on that Thematic of the class thing... I'm still upset that as a master of time and space, I cannot give both of the time/space altering boons (Alacrity and Quickness) without having to slot a 120s CD stationary elite skill. Most of other specs are better versed on giving those than the class that was entirely themed on it.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Jeknar.6184

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, back with a quick update:

 

Since the preview we've seen a lot of feedback around the proposed change to convert Scrapper gyros into ground-targeted stationary spells. The main concern we've seen is that this change would remove the unique feeling of the skills without replacing it with something new.

We agree – we'll be reverting the proposed changes and will be making a different set of adjustments to Purge and Sneak Gyro for WvW:

• Sneak Gyro: Reduced stealth duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in WvW only. Reduced number of pulses from 6 to 3 in WvW only. This skill is no longer a smoke field in WvW only. This skill now plays a visual indicator to enemies on activation.
• Purge Gyro: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

 

For clarification, we'll still be changing Defense Field into a ground-targeted skill in the October 4 update.

We'd still like to take a pass on updating the design of Scrapper gyros in the future, but not until we work out a replacement mechanic that feels both unique and fun to use.

As always, thanks to everyone who gave feedback on the upcoming changes; we really appreciate it.

 

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

I do hope you still consider the bigger models for the gyros if not this next patch then eventually. While we can't have them as epic as Renyak, having even a shred of that epicness would be awesome.

...and like Scrapper's shoulder buddy, Catalyst would like it's jade orb buddy around them too ❤️ (like the NPC). TYSM!

[crosknight.3041]

anyone else find it funny how they quickly listen to the engineer players complaining about a change while still ignoring the now months of ele players complaining about tempest alacrity being implemented in probably the worst way possible?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the only nerf scrapper needs in wvw is core engis medkit auto. i know i've said this in other posts, but i think its important to post it here too. its blatantly over tuned, being able to dish out a 2k heal per second auto with no kit cd goes a long way to make zergs the unstoppable force they are. due to the way stacking works in this game and the fact medkit auto is a cone, its possible that in a group of players some players will get healed by more then 1 medkit. please take a look at it, sustain is way too high these days and being able to slow down a bigger group would be nice. this would be replaced by vindicator if it was nerfed hard enough since vindi/ ventari has no heal down time as well so that might need a look at.

[Vandal.5621]

5 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

We'd still like to take a pass on updating the design of Scrapper gyros in the future, but not until we work out a replacement mechanic that feels both unique and fun to use.

The reversion is good, but this bit is bad.

 

Gyros are just fine as-is. There is nothing inherently OP about player-centric wells. If you can't figure out how to balance them, you're just not trying hard enough.

 

If you want to "take a pass on" something, look at Turrets. Or Elixirs. Or Gadgets. Or Core Engi, in general. Oh, or give Holo some reason to actually exist.

 

You know, change things that NEED change.

[Never.6014]

Really great move. Too often, the over performing outlier is nerfed into the ground instead of brought back in line.

I hope this is a type of things to come.

 

PS, Pistol sucks and has been literally bugged for years.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Never.6014
PS

[Glott.7239]

My suggestion for Gyros in the future would be to make them behave a bit like "Water Globe" (Tempest Water Horn 5), so still a moving AOE and Combo Field but no longer attached to the character. For a bit more flexebilety they could also be turned into a "skill shot" like Lightning Orb (Tempest Air Horn 5). The speed should be matching superspeed so you neither outpace them nor fall behind, but casting them would mean you kinda commit to a direction of movement for the next few seconds to get the full value out of them. This would preserve the uniqe feeling of the skills but make them less powerfull when not used properly.

[crewthief.8649]

1 hour ago, cgMatt.5162 said:

Not a great comparison since Veil has no target cap.

How about Mass Invisibility on a 90s cooldown?

[JaxLeo.7912]

6 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone, back with a quick update:

 

Since the preview we've seen a lot of feedback around the proposed change to convert Scrapper gyros into ground-targeted stationary spells. The main concern we've seen is that this change would remove the unique feeling of the skills without replacing it with something new.

We agree – we'll be reverting the proposed changes and will be making a different set of adjustments to Purge and Sneak Gyro for WvW:

• Sneak Gyro: Reduced stealth duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in WvW only. Reduced number of pulses from 6 to 3 in WvW only. This skill is no longer a smoke field in WvW only. This skill now plays a visual indicator to enemies on activation.
• Purge Gyro: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

 

For clarification, we'll still be changing Defense Field into a ground-targeted skill in the October 4 update.

We'd still like to take a pass on updating the design of Scrapper gyros in the future, but not until we work out a replacement mechanic that feels both unique and fun to use.

As always, thanks to everyone who gave feedback on the upcoming changes; we really appreciate it.

 

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

so, are we just gonna ignore the concerns of PvE thief players who are absolutely getting gutted because of PvP & WvW? this was meant to be a PvP & WvW patch why does specter have to get nerfed in PvE as well? it's an already underused class, it's clunky on it's current iteration, yet we make it work because aparently you in the dev team have no idea how to, and we get punished for it, thief has always been the same way, PvE always gets punished because of PvP & WvW and it's unfair if you ask me, nobody wants to see a thief in their party/squad and you only keep making the situation worse

[Xenesis.6389]

13 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

How about Mass Invisibility on a 90s cooldown?

naw bro sneak gyro needs to be the best stealth skill in the game or scrappers are worthless on the jack of all trades and "master of none" class.

[cgMatt.5162]

9 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

How about Mass Invisibility on a 90s cooldown?

A bit better but 10 target and 6-7s (traited, but who does that?) duration vs 5 target, 3s duration. Also Grav Well is too good a CC to give up for Mass Invis.

No drama, but the typical non-driver party comp has 2 support, 3 DPS. People comp in 15 for GvG so either Soulbeast/Daredevil/Chrono will cover the stealth, or run 3 Scrapper with this change and OOC Bomb Kit (no Tempest anymore bc no smoke field) or unorganized groups in open field won't run it at all.

[Ghos.1326]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:39 PM, Tilen.5027 said:

⁉️@Cal "cmc" Cohen How hard is it for you guys to understand that by nerfing classes you are just making people quit and making the game more and more boring ?🍆💦💦💦💦💦
Do you really have to be rocket scientist to underdstand that if you nerf classes that people enjoy playing and replace them with some useless counterparts, that people will quit the game? 

Why are you so lazy that you dont buff more classes instead and make more viable builds/classes in WvW ? 🤬

Nerfing classes isn't the problem. If we only buff, then we get to a point where any and every skill will one shot everything. That's not fun.

Now, what is the problem, is nerfing/buffing the wrong things, and ignoring the things that should be payed attention to.

[Mincsk.6028]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

the only nerf scrapper needs in wvw is core engis medkit auto. i know i've said this in other posts, but i think its important to post it here too. its blatantly over tuned, being able to dish out a 2k heal per second auto with no kit cd goes a long way to make zergs the unstoppable force they are. due to the way stacking works in this game and the fact medkit auto is a cone, its possible that in a group of players some players will get healed by more then 1 medkit. please take a look at it, sustain is way too high these days and being able to slow down a bigger group would be nice. this would be replaced by vindicator if it was nerfed hard enough since vindi/ ventari has no heal down time as well so that might need a look at.

I disagree. The medkit is strong but having an invincible max range cloud be able to destroy an organized group doesn't seem fun to me. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Mincsk.6028

[Ensity.2164]

Gratz Anet make the game again slow and back to 2012 where used to use 3 mesmers for stealth...Already u got so hard nerf scrapper and another nerfs incoming what about then for the class will not exist...U are so noobs on pvp/wvw side that u cant balance the game so all classes have their space

[KryTiKaL.3125]

1 hour ago, cgMatt.5162 said:

Not a great comparison since Veil has no target cap.

Except you're likely running 1 Scrapper per group anyway because of how overwhelming good it is at what it does.

[rzalexander.8237]

7 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

As always, thanks to everyone who gave feedback on the upcoming changes; we really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for listening!

[cgMatt.5162]

1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Except you're likely running 1 Scrapper per group anyway because of how overwhelming good it is at what it does.

That actually forces 3 Scrapper instead of 2 Scrapper, 1 Tempest bc no more smoke field... or just 1 Veil. For such a subpar stealth duration too. Better off blasting for Stealth.

Edited September 28, 2022 by cgMatt.5162

[Jski.6180]

Its an unbelievably bad scraper update now and feels more driven by pve player base not the wvw or spvp. I think the devs got tricked.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

The stealth gyro is now an underwhelming skill to use compared to mortar, supply crate or the elixir.  3 sec of stealth, 0 smoke field and an indicator.... Yeah no thanks.

 

That being said, it is a good step towards reducing the amount of stealth in WvW so I'm fine with it. The less stealth we have in WvW the better.

[Vegeta.2563]

8 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

• Sneak Gyro: Reduced stealth duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in WvW only. Reduced number of pulses from 6 to 3 in WvW only. This skill is no longer a smoke field in WvW only. This skill now plays a visual indicator to enemies on activation.

So does that mean, with the current interval between pulses being 1 second.  Won't stealth just run out after 1 second and you get revealed and the other 2 pulses won't give you stealth because of reveal not being worn off yet?

[Capricornholio.9035]

Who's ready for WvW chronomanders to pirate ship even harder with 40+ in squad now that their scrappers have to think lmao

[N A T E.3108]

The idea of nerfing stealth gyro to this extent in WvW is a little insane. Like yeah- thanks for reverting the stationary changes… but dude- a long cast & CD for only 3s of stealth … Toss Elixer S would literally be a better elite… even smoke bomb would be a better elite 😂 mayyybbbee do something more along the lines of making the stealth pulse self-only application and leaving the smoke field. 
 

ALIEN

Edited September 28, 2022 by N A T E.3108

[Sugar Min.5834]

3 hours ago, TheBossVeigar.1306 said:

Can you guys reconsider the Gale Song change for Tempest? It giving protection doesn't make too much sense as Tempest gives plenty already. The stun break is really nice in PvE. A lot of Tempest players - myself included - aren't too happy with the change.

Yes please. Can the team please for once give the Ele a small buff and not always a lousy tradeoff? Gale Song is useless now. That skill used to prevent you from being pulled into into the enemy side and now instead we get some lousy protection in a sea of hundreds of instant kills red circles. Wow that really helps.

Edited September 28, 2022 by MintyMin.2718