Is everybody okay with Specter being garbage?

[Zekent.3652]

Game being better and healthier with less spammy condi bomb? WHO'D SAY 😮!!!

Edited November 5, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Dr Meta.3158]

Specter had the scourge problem. It was made to be a support but it did a much better job at being a murdering dps plague on the game. 

[Kozumi.5816]

On 11/3/2022 at 7:40 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

An elite spec made unviable is always a bad thing.

Not really. Sometimes the one weird kid ruins all your fun and you simply ban them from your sandbox.

[cyberzombie.7348]

@Psycoprophet.8107Same,  I stated multiple times that thieves already have the kits to be a support. They just needed to buff the pre-existing support skill before considering a whole elite spec around it. But ppl thought I was crazy despite things like ninja nurses and mercy res bots were viable in the early years. 

 

If anything spectre should've been an anti-support imo.

Edited November 5, 2022 by cyberzombie.7348

[Vancho.8750]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:49 PM, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I tried.......as a long time gw2 pvp'r to explain to all the thief players before EoD why a support spec would end up in long run to be a waste of a spec and of a chance to have a new and long term viable option. Spector could have been a cool selfish, flashy and interesting shadow mage like assassin that could have easily integrated with thief's core design. Considering every support trait thief had had at the time was useless and never used due to being underpowered because of thief's strengths elsewhere present in its core design,  I knew anet would never allow a viable and effective support build to exists while still having access to teefs core rogue design. Specter is another spec that has fallen victim to the now newly dropped balance philosophy of all classes being viable at every role. Anet needs to redesign specter with their current philosophy or future one they planned to use to be a shadow mage assassin type class utilizing its core design and mechanics while integrating the idea of a more mage like playstle, example would be blood magic etc.

I agree with you that Anet should not have made it do it all spec, but I don't agree that it should have been another damage dealing spec, since the other damage thief specs are somewhat lets say useless for Instanced PVE or WvW groups and that right here is most of the game. You are focusing too much on aesthetics and RP while functionality is way more important since at the end of the day no one else on your group cares about the flashy sparkles your spec can do but the work you do on it.

They should have really focused it on support and any attempt or build that is not should have gotten the slap while making the support better. The issue here is that the kit of specter falls in the fake support that can abuse mechanics to do something else like Druid( became bunker at the start),  Scourge( supposedly barrier support that ended up just killing everyone) , Chrono( same as druid, bunker) and maybe FB(the I can do it all spec).
It is just that supports often end up having damage build and support build while damage dealing elites just do damage, I think elite should just specialize in one thing we already have enough room with 3 specializations to focus them on something.  

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 minute ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I agree with you that Anet should not have made it do it all spec, but I don't agree that it should have been another damage dealing spec, since the other damage thief specs are somewhat lets say useless for Instanced PVE or WvW groups and that right here is most of the game. You are focusing too much on aesthetics and RP while functionality is way more important since at the end of the day no one else on your group cares about the flashy sparkles your spec can do but the work you do on it.

They should have really focused it on support and any attempt or build that is not should have gotten the slap while making the support better. The issue here is that the kit of specter falls in the fake support that can abuse mechanics to do something else like Druid( became bunker at the start),  Scourge( supposedly barrier support that ended up just killing everyone) , Chrono( same as druid, bunker) and maybe FB(the I can do it all spec).
It is just that supports often end up having damage build and support build while damage dealing elites just do damage, I think elite should just specialize in one thing we already have enough room with 3 specializations to focus them on something.  

I get what ur saying but the problem is thief to its very core is a damage class, including its specs and to try and pervert it into a support spec will end up with what we have now. Say they did focus on making it support, how would they do it? Would the have a viable support spec that has constant access to stealth and ports due to its core having access to them, and how do u balance that. They would have to redesign the thiefs core traitlines to change when specter as to not allow it to access to mechanics no viable support should have.

[Vancho.8750]

2 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I get what ur saying but the problem is thief to its very core is a damage class, including its specs and to try and pervert it into a support spec will end up with what we have now. Say they did focus on making it support, how would they do it? Would the have a viable support spec that has constant access to stealth and ports due to its core having access to them, and how do u balance that. They would have to redesign the thiefs core traitlines to change when specter as to not allow it to access to mechanics no viable support should have.

You don't need to add much to core to make it have some synergy with the elite currently. For example specter would just need better pros and cons, currently you don't lose much of core traitlines to gain necro shroud, it is just extra, you can play your core D/P shortbow or P/D shorbow no problem with the extra shroud but what if we apply the BS design and lose a weapon swap to gain the the shroud or even more interesting have the skills available on cd but the shroud defense to be on a different button where you decide to heal with it or to mitigate damage for yourself and maybe make Scepter the weapon to go with. That way you really have hard time picking the strong stuff from core(meaning shorbow most of the time). The trick is Restrictions that change your gameplay where the restrictions justify the power gained. 
To your argument that thief can't have good support because core is too focused on doing damage, I give you Necro, core is really really focused on doing damage(condi on top of that) and has one support traitline that ain't gona help in a core support at all and it is mostly taken for selfish gain, but when you add an elite spec it changes the profession completely and now you have unlocked different functionality based on the spec. Before the specializations Necro probably was the most rigid profession now it is probably one of the most versatile ones, and then you have thief that has terrible design since it defaults to the same core concept of assassin something.

[TheBigPlay.7504]

yes I'm ok with it. I don't like condi builds that take 0 skill to play. 

[Copyright.9082]

On 11/3/2022 at 7:55 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

I know I shouldn't be just on principle... but I am. That thing is not a thief. Bring it back with a rework that makes it into one!

I ++ this. I'm glad that the class, in its current state, is trash. Rework it or keep it trash. 

[UNOwen.7132]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:16 AM, Vancho.8750 said:

I agree with you that Anet should not have made it do it all spec, but I don't agree that it should have been another damage dealing spec, since the other damage thief specs are somewhat lets say useless for Instanced PVE or WvW groups and that right here is most of the game. You are focusing too much on aesthetics and RP while functionality is way more important since at the end of the day no one else on your group cares about the flashy sparkles your spec can do but the work you do on it.

They should have really focused it on support and any attempt or build that is not should have gotten the slap while making the support better. The issue here is that the kit of specter falls in the fake support that can abuse mechanics to do something else like Druid( became bunker at the start),  Scourge( supposedly barrier support that ended up just killing everyone) , Chrono( same as druid, bunker) and maybe FB(the I can do it all spec).
It is just that supports often end up having damage build and support build while damage dealing elites just do damage, I think elite should just specialize in one thing we already have enough room with 3 specializations to focus them on something.  

The problem is, Thieves mechanics just do not work for a support spec. And indeed ,we saw that in play. The only consistent support Spectre has is when it's using a necro mechanic that is at odds with what thief is supposed to be. Initiative and support just doesn't work. 

[pcgamefreak.5208]

The thing about classes like Thief, Mesmer and "Ele", is the fact those classes are glass.  They deal height damage, so they take high damage.  So it's not hard to spot a cheater in a mode like WvW because players on Thieves, Mesmers and "Ele" somehow run around taking zero damage for the longest and if they do final take damage it's always a tiny amount, even if you just dropped a direct 7k hit on them.  If those classes were that 'tanky', you'll see it in PvE...why would you not use that in PvE and just WvW?  That's the kind of stuff the cheaters don't think about, instead they assume everybody doesn't know the game after years of playing every class and build and try to fool you by saying crap like, it's my build or I just have skill, which is the worst because GW2 is not skill based PvP, I played one of those mmos years ago and it was great.

I just came out of WvW because not once, but twice, an "ArenaNet Baby" cheater pulled me through a solid door of a keep so I can get Zerg ganked.  It's one thing to do it once...but when 10 other players are 15 feet back behind the door and I'm standing 20 feet back behind the door and you single my character out and pull through the solid door again, it's a dead giveaway "ArenaNet Baby"....normal hackers are not going to pull that off.  It's also really noticeable when you take direct control of my character.

Guildwars 2 is not only the worst PvP game ever made, but one of THE worst games ever made period because of THEIR own cheating.  The concepts are garbage...  Class balance is non existent...  Why run around cheating players everyday all day long on top of the worst game ever made?  GW2 can actually be cleaned up and made into a somewhat decent game but it first starts with the privileged cheaters leaving PvP/WvW for good.  Why do that to the ones who sink money into the game...that's no smart at all.  Get on your own non public servers and cheat away, instead of doing it on the regular public ones against paying customers.  What is your five year old learning...?  That life is cheating?  Because that's what you're teaching him/her.

That's what really triggered the death of World of Warcraft...  When that video of a "Dev's" five year old surfaced....  I remember it well, I was still on "WoW" at the time and players...  To say they were furious was an understatement and rightfully so; going for long ours for days Raiding...basically inserting their life into the game and getting nothing to show for it but a five year old is just given Raid God Gear to blow everybody away in the battlegrounds.... They started leaving by the buckets load.  I hope the same thing eventually happens to GW2, sooner rather than later.

I gotta start recording some of this blatant, non regular hacker, cheating.  It seems video footage is the way to cause an mmo silver war.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:44 PM, Ragnar.4257 said:

Going from S-tier to B-tier isn't the same as being "deleted" or "unviable" or "garbage". Plenty of specs in C/D-tier still pretty envious of Specter.

Something being B Tier is pretty much useless. In any game. 

Because B Tier is the stuff that balanced and fair. Which is the last thing you want when you want to win. 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

Necromancer Profession 2.0  should be thrown in the trash
 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Shagie.7612]

2 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

I gotta start recording some of this blatant, non regular hacker, cheating.  It seems video footage is the way to cause an mmo silver war.

you should do it so that everyone can see your "hacker taking control of your character" is you getting hit with a taunt or whatever
it'll be hilarious

all of these people who think that everyone they encounter in spvp or wvw are hackers are utterly delusional
it is nowhere near as prevalent as they've convinced themselves it is

anyways, silly necro aside, yeah you can just freely nerf all teef builds
they deserve it for playing that class
send em to jail

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Teleport, rez, evade frame and speed hacks are the common hacks used in wvw other than utilizing known bugs/exploits for getting under the map or over walls. I haven't seen anything other than these in all the years playing wvw but I obviously could be oblivious to some.

[CallousEye.5018]

Sup with this thread necro?

[Burnfall.9573]

25 minutes ago, CallousEye.5018 said:

Sup with this thread necro?

Whenever it comes to using history to make a case against Thief Profession Toxicity, necro threads-Truth is called out as a smoke and mirror.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Downstate.4697]

Someone googles why their class is bad, finds a topic from a year ago and decides that is where they need to complain. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

The thing about classes like Thief, Mesmer and "Ele", is the fact those classes are glass.  They deal height damage, so they take high damage.  So it's not hard to spot a cheater in a mode like WvW because players on Thieves, Mesmers and "Ele" somehow run around taking zero damage for the longest and if they do final take damage it's always a tiny amount, even if you just dropped a direct 7k hit on them.  If those classes were that 'tanky', you'll see it in PvE...why would you not use that in PvE and just WvW?  That's the kind of stuff the cheaters don't think about, instead they assume everybody doesn't know the game after years of playing every class and build and try to fool you by saying crap like, it's my build or I just have skill, which is the worst because GW2 is not skill based PvP, I played one of those mmos years ago and it was great.

I just came out of WvW because not once, but twice, an "ArenaNet Baby" cheater pulled me through a solid door of a keep so I can get Zerg ganked.  It's one thing to do it once...but when 10 other players are 15 feet back behind the door and I'm standing 20 feet back behind the door and you single my character out and pull through the solid door again, it's a dead giveaway "ArenaNet Baby"....normal hackers are not going to pull that off.  It's also really noticeable when you take direct control of my character.

Guildwars 2 is not only the worst PvP game ever made, but one of THE worst games ever made period because of THEIR own cheating.  The concepts are garbage...  Class balance is non existent...  Why run around cheating players everyday all day long on top of the worst game ever made?  GW2 can actually be cleaned up and made into a somewhat decent game but it first starts with the privileged cheaters leaving PvP/WvW for good.  Why do that to the ones who sink money into the game...that's no smart at all.  Get on your own non public servers and cheat away, instead of doing it on the regular public ones against paying customers.  What is your five year old learning...?  That life is cheating?  Because that's what you're teaching him/her.

That's what really triggered the death of World of Warcraft...  When that video of a "Dev's" five year old surfaced....  I remember it well, I was still on "WoW" at the time and players...  To say they were furious was an understatement and rightfully so; going for long ours for days Raiding...basically inserting their life into the game and getting nothing to show for it but a five year old is just given Raid God Gear to blow everybody away in the battlegrounds.... They started leaving by the buckets load.  I hope the same thing eventually happens to GW2, sooner rather than later.

I gotta start recording some of this blatant, non regular hacker, cheating.  It seems video footage is the way to cause an mmo silver war.

💀🍿

ᵇʳᵒ ᴵ ˡᵒᵛᵉ ᶦᵗ ʰᵉʳᵉ

[Burnfall.9573]

4 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said:

Someone googles why their class is bad, finds a topic from a year ago and decides that is where they need to complain. 

Thief Profession is the only Profession who remains broken for 11 years. The rightfull complaint against the most Toxic Profession in the game will never end, until it is removed, deleted in the game .

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I think it's just a poorly designed spec. Giving utilities that all do the same thing teleport and taking what was already designed and implemented shroud to another class is just lazy designing development.

[magickthief.6492]

37 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Thief Profession is the only Profession who remains broken for 11 years. The rightfull complaint against the most Toxic Profession in the game will never end, until it is removed, deleted in the game .

What is balanced?

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

What is balanced?

Balance will be much better without Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic 

[magickthief.6492]

26 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Balance will be much better without Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic 

But, what profession(s) is/are balanced?

[Wild.1705]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:40 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

An elite spec made unviable is always a bad thing.

 You sure about this? Some specialization concepts just shouldn't exist.

Giving a class with great survivability, superspeed, and shrink an elite spec with tons of snappy mobility jumps and high damage. (Hollowsmith). Giving an extremely powerful and tanky condition class access to support and greater aoe (Scourge). These classes probably shouldn't have been green lit in the first place. But they were and they were problems for a long time. What if their concepts get even worse?

What if next ranger, warrior, guardian, necromancer, revenent of elementalist elite is something like, "Stealth Blitzer". The class mechanic is shroud, the skill type is deception giving access to stealth as well as specialization traits focused on mobility and stealth.

Maybe flawed concepts should be so bad they are nearly unplayable until fixed. I'm not saying this is a fact, I'm just not convinced of your perspective.