November 29 Balance Update Preview

[Asum.4960]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:51 PM, Double Tap said:

Necromancer

Power reaper is another damage build that we've sought to improve in PvE, bringing up some of its less potent skills in Reaper Shroud and giving it a bit more consistent pressure while out of shroud.

Core

• Soul Barbs: Increased duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE only.

Reaper

• Chilling Nova: Reduced cooldown from 8 seconds to 3 seconds in PvE only.
• Nightfall: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.
• Dusk Strike: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.2 in PvE only.
• Chilling Scythe: This skill now reduces the recharge of Gravedigger when striking an enemy.
• Death's Charge (PvE only): Increased power coefficient of initial strikes from 0.125 to 0.25. Fixed an issue that prevented the damage of the initial strikes from being listed on this skill's tooltip.
• Executioner's Scythe (PvE only): Increased power coefficient against targets at or above 50% health to 3.0. Increased power coefficient against targets below 50% health to 4.0. Increased power coefficient against targets below 25% to 5.0.

 

I just want to sum up why I think these Reaper changes are bad and don't achieve their goal. 

First of all the Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe Buffs - can we please, please stop with the trend of making all skills DPS skills to be pressed off-cooldown?

It's okay to have skills with the primary function of Mobility, CC or other (situational) Utility. Not everything needs to be mashed off-cooldown. 

 

Nightfall is used in conjunction with Well of Suffering, Well of Darkness and Grasping Darkness before entering Shroud to benefit from Death's Perception and Reaper's Onslaught's extra Critical Damage. What do all of those skills have in common? 25 second Cooldowns.

Not that a CD reduction is a bad thing, but I don't know what you expect this to accomplish as a means to increase Reaper's DPS. 

 

Chilling Scythe reducing the CD of Gravedigger - great.. more Gravedigger Spam. Why is this a bad change? Reaper already has massive Lifeforce Issues. 

Where does Reaper get a lot of it's already lacking LF from? The third hit of the AA on both Greatsword and Shroud. 

What do these Chilling Scythe, Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe buffs want you to do? Auto Attack less in GS and Shroud.

How do you expect this to work out (esp since Life Reap [Shroud AA3] is also neccessary to reduce Shroud CD's via Reaper's Onslaught for the next Shroud window)?

 

So that leaves us with Soul Barbs, Chilling Nova and Dusk Strike buffs. 

 

More Soul Barb duration certainly is a plus, but it's really not going to do much at all either. Once again, Reaper simply doesn't have the LF to stay in Shroud for an extended amount of time. In real fights with incoming damage, especially post 50% Boss Health Gravedigger spam, Reaper genuinely a lot of times can't even stay in Shroud for the 10 seconds, sometimes barely getting a Soul Spiral in - something that will be even worse LF wise if trying to Utilize these buffed skills and Auto Attacking less.

This will mainly increase the low but already inflated Golem Benchmark slightly where LF management is easier due to not having to deal with incoming damage, without doing much in actual use cases.

 

Chilling Nova's ICD reduction is nice and probably the most significant Buff out of all of these, but since this can't Crit even this is fairly marginal and more of a Condi Reaper Buff with Deathly Chill, but okay. More Chill uptime is nice for Solo play at least.

 

And then there is a 0.2 coefficient buff on the first GS Auto, which you now want us to use less for even more Gravedigger usage. Any buff is a welcome one, but this is just so far off being enough - especially from the big PvE patch of the year which even has a focus on boosting underused power DPS Specs, like Reaper. 

Frankly, this is stuff I expect from monthly hotfixes, not changes worth waiting years for. 

 

Sooner or later you will have to put the work in to rework and buff Core Necro Weapons, especially the Off-Hands, as well as Spite Traits, especially the Master and Grandmaster Minors. 

I probably speak for most players in that we are so tired of watching you guys shuffle around coefficients for years and years, usually in the wrong places.

 

Why does Necro still have a "Deal 25% increased Damage while Downed" Trait in Spite? Why are you intent on buffing the damage of Skills like Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe, which already have very real use cases in PvE for Mobility and CC (also, Purity of Purpose as Design Goal, anyone?), but skills like Unholy Feast on Axe are practically never worth pressing/way too situational? Speaking of Axe, why is the AA so awful (and even more so Staff)? How come it's only skill semi-worth pressing is Ghastly Claws - and that took 10 buffs over 10 freaking years!?

What is the point of Dagger MH? 

Why isn't there a single solid core Off-Hand on Necro? How about a single comparable Damage skill to Whirling Axe, Whirling Defense or even Shackling Wave, etc.? 

Even Ranger Warhorn as support weapon with AoE Fury, Might, Swiftness, Weakness, Daze and Blast Finisher (+Regen if Traited) on Call of the Wild has a better/more reliable damage skill with Hunter's Call than all Necro off-hands. 

Necro Warhorn is just utterly pathetic in comparison to everything else.

 

If you want to give Reaper "a bit more consistent pressure while out of shroud", this is where to start - and it needs more than "just a bit". 

 

/E: Please strongly consider at minimum reworking Death's Embrace and Siphoned Power in Spite. For Inspiration look at Hemantic Focus, Quiet Intensity, Hunter's Tactics, Radient Power, Furious Burst etc. for Crit Chance Minors,  and Targeted Destruction, Ferocious Aggression, Exposed Weaknesses and the like for damage Minors. 

Following that, strongly consider splitting Unholy Feast for PvE. Get rid of the 25% health conditional for Unholy Burst, and drastically increase both strike's Power Coefficients. 

Have a look at Focus 4 and Warhorn 5 especially, and consider at least making one of those skills into a valid damage skill. Personally I still believe Warhorn 5 to be the most fitting for Reaper as something melee that can be precast into Shroud for LF gain (to somewhat counter Reaper's problem with losing damage by taking Shroud damage) and Damage - far more so than the last feeble attempts to make it into a "Support" Weapon (requiring 5 second 5 target 180 range cleave to heal some). 

Rethink what you want Dagger MH to be and do, beyond some "thematic" gimmicky self bleed interaction for 2&3.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Asum.4960

[RAZOR.7246]

Quote

Your framing is coming from completely the wrong direction. If you want literally every other job in the game to become Mech instead of Mech stepping the kitten off other specs' niches, you are tacitly arguing that most of the combat and build depth should just be abandoned for some kind of simplified "action MMO". 

 

I didn't say I want every class to become Mech. I said you have to balance based on those 6 things that Mech does exceptionally well instead of just changing coefficients which is not going to change anything at all. I guarantee it now that nothing is going to change with this patch. They already did this before and it did nothing. The problem is not the damage on classes. 40+K benchmarks is already very good DPS. The problem is getting those classes to do good damage and feel comfortable in a combat scenario with the limits of their class design. Focusing on trying to force unique spec designs into the meta by changing coefficients is not the solution. You're looking at a scenario here where they want ridiculous benchmarks just to make a class viable in the name of unique spec design. This is just going to make more and more classes OP on a few fights and unviable in others. What's going to end up happening is that another balance will take place to reduce the effectiveness of these classes in those fights and ending in the scenario where the class is "nerfed into oblivion" for months on end. It's been happening over and over and over all in the name of unique spec design. The unique spec design in the first place needs to fit with their combat system and they don't on most classes which is why a class with such a comparatively low bench can seemingly "overperform" in the current meta. These designs don't have to play the same way. You can have unique class designs without everything having to play like Mechs. They just have to be designed in such a way where they fulfill the criteria required for a smooth fight sequence compensating in certain areas over others to give that class viability based on their strengths and weaknesses. Not impose crippling drawbacks for no apparent reason in the name of "unique spec design" and then expect damage increments to cover those issues. The fundamental playstyle does not fit with their combat system. You can't expect a melee to perform in the same areas where a ranged hero excels for example, nor can you expect a relatively static class to excel in increasing amounts of scenarios that require good mobility and recovery without the proper tools and those tools are not available. The problem is that doing damage at a high level in an actual fight scenario is not possible or rather, not rewarding enough for the effort put in because most classes are severely lacking in several of those 6 areas that mech covers easily. You don't need to fulfill all 6 criteria but you do need to fulfill at least a few of those with the current fight designs. There is an optimal way to fight in the current meta and there has always been whether people want to accept it or not and it's not with their current designs. Trying to design unique specs without proper knowledge or rather with ignorance on this subject does nothing for the game.  Again, trying to balance just by changing coefficients is going to do nothing for the meta. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by RAZOR.7246

[RAZOR.7246]

Quote

Catalyst was hit hard by the last update to PvE, and we're making a few changes to bring it back up, removing the damage penalty from Spectacular Sphere and giving a bit more damage to Empowering Auras. We've also updated the behavior of the hammer's third-slot weapon skills to make the strikes more consistent and remove the difference in effectiveness between hitbox sizes.

 

Clearly they're confused between making catalyst a support or a DPS. All the issues with the class were coming the moment they slapped easily available quickness onto a DPS class. If they want it to be a DPS then invest into that and remove the quickness giving ability of Catalysts. Instead slap it on weavers where you give quickness every time you change attunements or use a Dual Attack or something like that. Reworking Invigorating Strikes to do this for example would work well.  

[Barzah.8019]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:51 AM, Double Tap said:

Deadeye

• Kneel: Increased initiative cost from 1 to 2. While kneeling, players can now move at a 75% reduced speed. Kneel is no longer canceled when you become disabled.
• Skirmisher's Shot: Reduced range from 1,500 to 1,200.
• Three Round Burst: Reduced range from 1,500 to 1,200.
• Death's Judgement: This skill now pierces foes not targeted by Deadeye's Mark. Damage dealt to unmarked enemies is reduced. Players can now move while using this skill. Reduced range from 1,500 to 1,200.

Love the kneel and DJ changes, yet the range nerf on kneel skill is just downright stupid.

I mean we Deadeye rifle still able to get "out-ranged" by other class such as ranger at 1500, while trying so hard to maintain presure to marked target, both PvP and PvE

 

Either leave the kneel skill at 1500 or increase it to 1800 (Ranger longbow range, which actually longer than 1800 i think). Both changes won't drastically make Deadeye Rifle super OP anyway.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Barzah.8019

[Drag You Down.2615]

16 minutes ago, Barzah.8019 said:

Either leave the kneel skill at 1500 or increase it to 1800 (Ranger longbow range, which actually longer than 1800 i think). Both changes won't drastically make Deadeye Rifle super OP anyway.

Then they will not increase Deadeye's range, but reduce ranger's range to 1200 as well, I assume, to BALANCE. XD

[Barzah.8019]

4 minutes ago, Drag You Down.2615 said:

Then they will not increase Deadeye's range, but reduce ranger's range to 1200 as well, I assume, to BALANCE. XD

yeah that's why i called it a stupid decision. Rifle deadeye is already squishy & immobile enough even without kneel.

Right now 90% of deadeye rifle is just roaming around and spamming 2 since it's the cheapest & fastest way to get max malice

Edited November 14, 2022 by Barzah.8019

[Pooh.6897]

2 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Sooner or later you will have to put the work in to rework and buff Core Necro Weapons, especially the Off-Hands, as well as Spite Traits, especially the Master and Grandmaster Minors.

I probably speak for most players in that we are so tired of watching you guys shuffle around coefficients for years and years, usually in the wrong places.

Why does Necro still have a "Deal 25% increased Damage while Downed" Trait in Spite? Why are you intent on buffing the damage of Skills like Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe, which already have very real use cases in PvE for Mobility and CC, but skills like Unholy Feast on Axe are practically never worth pressing/way too situational? Speaking of Axe, why is the AA so awful (and even more so Staff)? How come it's only skill semi-worth pressing is Ghastly Claws - and that took 10 buffs over 10 freaking years!?

What is the point of Dagger MH?

Why isn't there a single solid core Off-Hand on Necro? How about a single comparable Damage skill to Whirling Axe, Whirling Defense or even Shackling Wave, etc.?

Even Ranger Warhorn as support weapon with AoE Fury, Might, Swiftness, Weakness, Daze and Blast Finisher (+Regen if Traited) on Call of the Wild has a better/more reliable damage skill with Hunter's Call than all Necro off-hands.

Necro Warhorn is just utterly pathetic in comparison to everything else.

 

If you want to give Reaper "a bit more consistent pressure while out of shroud", this is where to start - and it needs more than "just a bit".

Preach, brother! This is EXACTLY my frustrations with the balancing over the years. They seem to just ignore absolutely massive issues that are só incredibly obvious, but they just don't touch them AT ALL. Their reaction time is so incredibly slow, unless something affects some sort of PvP-league match, then they just omega nerf it into the ground.

But yes, what is the point of MH dagger? I use it for RP purposes, but it's an absolute steaming pile of garbage. You have an AA that deals (pretty low) strike damage and generates a lot of LF. Then you get Life Siphon, which is effectively a second heal skill but basically does nothing else, and you get a random immobilize with Dark Pact. The only elite spec that seriously use MH dagger is scourge boon support/barrier heal. Scourge is condi-based, while dagger is power-based. why did they not adapt the weapon to the new playstyle? or give it some sort of clear direction what it's meant for? Is everyone else starved of LF because dagger's quirk is that it can generate LF?

What about minions and their traits? minionmancers deal pathetically low damage, it's not even funny anymore. I love to run minions, but apart from the flesh golem there really is no reason to use them.

Spite is heavily dated and needs a rework at this point. Reaper's might is cool, but then you have siphoned power which does the same thing but better? Also, Spite is the only traitline that can effectively do nothing at all under the right circumstances. If your enemy is above 50% health, has boons and you're not in shroud, spite literally does nothing at all.

I use Focus because Binding of Ipos is cool and it gives me a demonic tome. the skills itself are so useless, especially in PvE, i might as well have nothing equipped at all.

the main problem that i have with these changes is that it solidifies greatsword even more as the melee weapon to use with reaper. If you ever had any dreams of making a MH dagger reaper build work, well it is now effectively dead because appearantly only greatsword receives buffs whenever Reaper needs extra damage.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Darth Pooh.5638

[Phazon.3975]

15 hours ago, Gambit.9501 said:

Anet PLEASE DO NOT reduce the range of Knelt Deadeye Rifle skills.  That does not make the class better to play in PvE, that makes it worse.  If this was a change made due to PvP, then friendly reminder that YOU HAVE A SPLIT-MODE SYSTEM FOR A REASON.

Deadeye Rifle fantasy is supposed to be long-range quick-killing.  Why is Ranger Longbow allowed to have 1500~1800 range skills but Deadeye suddenly isn't?

Nerfing Kneel skill range goes COMPLETELY AGAINST THE CLASS FANTASY.

 

I agree that the Rifle range nerf for Deadeye is unwarranted and I'm glad people are passionate about the classes they like in the fantasy aspect.

 

But as a player who always wanted a customizable, trusty robot companion for my Engineer for years that would defend me and kick some butt, a golemancer if you will, and when they announced Mechanist I was some of the happiest I've ever been for this game. "Another pet spec?! And a ROBOT?! My dreams came true!"  What I got on release was exactly what I always wanted! But the community said "No no no.No fantasy for you. We don't take kindly to AI around here." And I don't mean to sound toxic or at all vengeful because that isn't my intention...buuuuuuut...

 

WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS CAN WE?!

 

(PS- Look I understand Mechanist needed some tuning but this new change is already going overboard. Holo got buffed. Wait for more nerfs until we see how things perform after these changes please!)

Edited November 14, 2022 by Phazon.3975

[Hemi.5267]

Great, I just poured gold into my Deadeye build and now they are going to nerf the range? How much will this affect the WvW builds or is this only relevant to PvE?

 

Discovering the rifle builds gave GW2 new life for me. I enjoy blasting with Mech and sniping with Deadeye. I hope these changes won't affect the gameplay too much. :'-(

[jokebox.9803]

VINDICATOR - WvW PoV

- Why nerf Archemorus spear range ? The spell is long to cast, easy to dodge or reflect or simply avoid because of environment collision. Putting a 1200 range is just a non-sense. 

- Still nothing new in the management of Alliance stance. I saw a suggestion of having a low cd (like 4-5 sec?) on swap between Saint Viktor and Archemorus : it could be a good idea. Alliance needs to be somewhere different from the rest of the legends.

- Nerf stab from Archemorus...seriously... Its the only defensive spell in the kit of Archemorus (I can't consider Saint Viktor has a part of the kit since you will have 9sec cd on swap). Vindicator needs stab to be able to stay in melee. Look at warriors... Even Willbender have so many tools to protect themselves. 

- I think Vindi supp still lack of something. Yes it's one of the best heal/barrier, but we need more tools to bring something more. Like better design on CC on Axe (the pull on 5 axe) or on dashes from mace. Could be a good start without giving more cleanse or stab to vindi supp and giving them the ability to have a greater impact.

A lot of hope for Vindicator...please, this elite spe is really nice to play but it's being harder and harder after these last patches.

Edited November 14, 2022 by jokebox.9803

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Looking at the changes proposed for Reaper once again being completely ineffective so at this point I guess the alternative is just leaving the game for another MMO that actually has a real passion for balance. This isn't about not just keeping up with the other classes it's about a class/elite spec that was introduced and was competitive being trashed over the years to become a shadow of it's former self and the Dev's not caring enough to refurbish it to it's previous functional design. Reaper benches now 31,5k, this was the last straw for me, as since it seems there is no definitive will on behalf of Anet to fix it, I don't enjoy any of the other classes/elite specs so there is no reason to stay. I'm bloody sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Vlad Morbius.1759

[Nimon.7840]

Overall some good changes I would say.

 

Some feedback:

Dragons tooth looks really scary for pvp modes.

 

It's sad that water trident doesn't heal allies anymore, but the change is understandable: making a weapon less hybrid in order to give it more dmg.

 

I'm not a fan of the mech change, but I can see why it's implemented. But if the Mechs are now standing inside of the player stacks, it would be great if there was an option to hide allied Mechs, at least in PvE.

 

Firebrand changes are very interesting and seems like that change makes firebrand a lot easier to balance. I hope other specs will get a similar treatment.

 

No virtuoso nerfs? The distortion has a way too long duration when used with 5 blades and given how easy it is to generate blades...

 

Reaper changes seem a bit reserved.

Scourge trait change is fine/good, but if you really want to rework the trait, keep in mind, that scourge doesn't have a power grandmaster trait.

Also no changes to healscourge? According to the balance philosophy a healer should be able to give defensive boons, and scourge is currently only able to grant regeneration. I really hope for a future rework of scourge in general.

 

Still no nerfs to soulbeast in wvw- kinda sad.

 

Nice herald buffs, though you have to be extremely careful.  If you look at quickness harbinger and compare it to herald right now:

Harbinger: more DPS, less boons. Only 100 % uptime of quickness and fury while Herald grand Perma swiftness, regeneration and protection on top while also being able to bring even more utility in form of 10 target stability for example, even if that utility is gated behind the second legend.

[Jianyu.7065]

I like how many people in the thread are saying these are good changes, while Deadeye players don't even have a class to play....

 

[Blackfish.7349]

So many ppl complining about DEADEYE. Mates...deadeye is a specialization that allows you to hide in eternum, engage at will and from a vantage position and easily disengage if things dont go as expected. It simply should not exist in a MMO and you know is true. Of course some of you enjoy playing it, specially those ones specialized in the "easy" gank lonely game mode. Deadeye does not add anything of value to a group play apart from being able to hide forever inside a structure (which is another polemic discussion). For those who love it, feel lucky just because it exists and anet cannot delete a created specialization.

[punkisdead.5267]

Deadeye Kneel movement speed reduction should at most be 50% in PvE to be useful. This is assuming movement speed bonuses work with Kneel (e.g. Swiftness and Superspeed).

In PvE, the usual Deadeye build is DeadlyArts/Crit/Deadeye which does not have easy access to Superspeed but only Swiftness. With 75% kneel reduction and Swiftness you would have 58% of normal movement speed (100 - 75 + 33 = 58) which is only slightly faster than backpedaling (50% of normal movement speed without any bonuses). This would be hardly any useful in practice. With 50% kneel reduction and Swiftness you would have 83% of normal movement speed (100 - 50 + 33 = 83) which is slightly slower than strafing (85% of normal movement speed without any bonuses). This would still be a disadvantage but not enough to be useless. I assume this would also make things easier for encounter designs in the future (i.e. Will a Deadeye be able to make it out of the circle in time?).

In PvP, the usual Deadeye build is ShadowArts/Trickery/Deadeye which has easy access to Superspeed (i.e. Meld With Shadows + Silent Scope traits). With 75% kneel reduction and Superspeed you would have 125% of normal movement speed (100 - 75 + 100 = 125) for 3 seconds after each dodge which should be enough to reposition yourself in most cases. I would not even mind increasing the kneel reduction even further in PvP (e.g. 80/90% or even 100%).

TLDR: Kneel speed reduction should be balanced around having Swiftness in PvE and Superspeed in PvP.

PS: If you are going to add an animation for Kneel, also consider something along the line of duck walking in addition to crawling.

Edited November 14, 2022 by punkisdead.5267

[Orabusu.6085]

One big problem I am seeing with Power reaper is the use of the elite skill where there are three options in the power line: 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Golem ->https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(necromancer_skill)

Only power elite I an using as a reaper becuse the other are really bad for what they do and this one when the time it does it right its good but needs inprovments. There are many times in game that you loose total control of your character when you get stucked in ice or something similiar that just despawns all your sommuns and puts them on cooldown which hurts really badly when you need your sommun for doing damage or be used as cc or life support. Then there is the issue of the outright killed by mobs or emenies that makes the long cd for a passing grade summon feels really bad when you need it for cc and you dont have that option longer becuse you have to wait for cd.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form

Absurb long cooldown for mearly 20 sec uptime with subpar dmg calculations on the attacks. The attacks according to the GW2 wiki use "The form uses a weapon strength of 1,015 (level 78 exotic staff) in PvP, and 772.5 weapon strength (level 78 fine staff) in PvE.". Lich Form needs to get a buff so that it calculates the weapondamage of ascended weapons or the weapon you are currently using so its is relevant to be in Lich Form. Then there is the issue of it to have an cd of 150sec, thats 2.50 minute of cooldown, that cooldown need to be brough down same with many more elites out there there are not used becuse of the long cd and not enough power in useage.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Chilled_to_the_Bone!"

Regarding Chilled to the bones, it have an 90sec cooldown and a damage coeff of 2.0 for utility same thing for Heavens palm that you are buffing with the patch it will have an cooldown of 20 sec and dmg coeff of 3.0 for utility. Could you make that they are in the same line with the cd and dmg coeff?

Another thing that needs to be adressed is the power weapon options and buffing the dmg and the likes of it(cooldown in particular) that many have taken up. A bit of critbonus is needed for the reaper in dead perception, some trait reworks or combining traits. 

Sidenote, not about reaper:
Where are the Pistol/pistol thief changes?

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

  haha Go back 4 years and count the entire number of wvw nerfs to thief or mesmer and then go and count the same number of nerfs to Ranger in that same time frame. It's a literal 100 to 1 ratio. Thief has been nerfed 100x more often than Ranger in the past 4 years.

     Youre wasting your time and effort here.  The staggering amount of bias isnt even disguised at this point. 

    The real shame in my mind....is that we waited an entire year....for 0 actual wvw architecture fixes.    hahahahahahaha  Just more  "skill balances".

      hahahahahahaha

   WvW lost.   gg all  gt

[kphelnunnia.2316]

Changes are great I love them but for Deadeye please bring back the range, its below a Ranger marksman now when its supposed to be the sniper. Pls!!

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

regarding the Deadeye:

I like the direction of the DJ change but

to some degree i think it is just some sort of overthinking at the balance team that makes all of this complicated. they actually have the luxury position to make changes unique to a specific game mode yet it is not utilized efficiently.

 

first thing why not nerfing the range only in wvw pvp if that is an issue there in the first place (even 5000 range and perma stealth would not be a problem in PvE if the damage doesn’t increase as well, as npcs dont care about this)

 

second the changes to kneeling:

why not reducing the cd of the abilities with shadowsteps in PvE (maybe also allow the target steps to allies) so that DE could more often reposition themselves with that, it would also require some sort of finess and skill to do so effectively (skill ceiling in terms of experience and foresight rather than aps), instead of the upcoming slowwalk or cancel kneel and move normally.

why not giving the dodge roll on DE a longer distance while kneeling and there are many other suggestions that give some freedom of movement while keeping the concept alive.

i mean i got the feeling there are way „smoother“ proposals in the forum or reddit than the 25% walk, and i cant imagine they are harder to implement technically.

 

Last spark of hope is the interaction with superspeed from shadow arts, but that would eliminate build diversity as trickery and sa are than absolute must-haves 

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, RAZOR.7246 said:

 

I didn't say I want every class to become Mech. I said you have to balance based on those 6 things that Mech does exceptionally well instead of just changing coefficients which is not going to change anything at all. I guarantee it now that nothing is going to change with this patch. They already did this before and it did nothing. The problem is not the damage on classes. 40+K benchmarks is already very good DPS. The problem is getting those classes to do good damage and feel comfortable in a combat scenario with the limits of their class design. Focusing on trying to force unique spec designs into the meta by changing coefficients is not the solution. You're looking at a scenario here where they want ridiculous benchmarks just to make a class viable in the name of unique spec design. This is just going to make more and more classes OP on a few fights and unviable in others. What's going to end up happening is that another balance will take place to reduce the effectiveness of these classes in those fights and ending in the scenario where the class is "nerfed into oblivion" for months on end. It's been happening over and over and over all in the name of unique spec design. The unique spec design in the first place needs to fit with their combat system and they don't on most classes which is why a class with such a comparatively low bench can seemingly "overperform" in the current meta. These designs don't have to play the same way. You can have unique class designs without everything having to play like Mechs. They just have to be designed in such a way where they fulfill the criteria required for a smooth fight sequence compensating in certain areas over others to give that class viability based on their strengths and weaknesses. Not impose crippling drawbacks for no apparent reason in the name of "unique spec design" and then expect damage increments to cover those issues. The fundamental playstyle does not fit with their combat system. You can't expect a melee to perform in the same areas where a ranged hero excels for example, nor can you expect a relatively static class to excel in increasing amounts of scenarios that require good mobility and recovery without the proper tools and those tools are not available. The problem is that doing damage at a high level in an actual fight scenario is not possible or rather, not rewarding enough for the effort put in because most classes are severely lacking in several of those 6 areas that mech covers easily. You don't need to fulfill all 6 criteria but you do need to fulfill at least a few of those with the current fight designs. There is an optimal way to fight in the current meta and there has always been whether people want to accept it or not and it's not with their current designs. Trying to design unique specs without proper knowledge or rather with ignorance on this subject does nothing for the game.  Again, trying to balance just by changing coefficients is going to do nothing for the meta. 

First of all, paragraphs.  Use them.  Thanks.

In other games range is allowed to be ranged, with its own purpose and challenges specific to being at range.  Healers/supports can specify targets and heal/support from range.  Not so in GW2, where we have to stack in a pile in order to gain healing/support and to control boss movement.

Their remedy to this situation is to force movement via fight mechanics.  Unfortunately, this creates a scenario where range is strictly superior to melee.  Both want to be at melee range and will be as often as they are able, but only ranged DPS is able to continue attacking when the mechanics force movement.

Obviously, they aren't about to address this by changing the entire design of the game at this point.  So, what do you propose they do to mitigate this disparity?  A "ranged tax" (i.e. making melee DPS generally higher in maximum potential than ranged) is not a perfect solution, but if handled properly it would at least create favorable fights for both ranged and melee rather than range always being superior.  What's your solution to this problem?

[RAZOR.7246]

Quote

"Obviously, they aren't about to address this by changing the entire design of the game at this point.  So, what do you propose they do to mitigate this disparity?  A "ranged tax" (i.e. making melee DPS generally higher in maximum potential than ranged) is not a perfect solution, but if handled properly it would at least create favorable fights for both ranged and melee rather than range always being superior.  What's your solution to this problem?"

 

I've already said; Balance classes around the 6 points I've previously mentioned. These 6 points are Rotation, Range/Melee capabilities, Mobility, Access to Utility, Pet Tanking and Cleave. If a class is lacking in 1 area because of it's design, then another area from these 6 points should be buffed to compensate for that to make it viable. If any of these areas can be improved within the current design, then it should be improved. It's not game or design breaking to buff 1 or more of these aspects on classes that need it. In we're specifically looking at melee vs ranged DPS, a significant improvement to mobility capabilities would compensate for this. This is not a theory. This is what happens in practice. If you can blink on mobile fights like 100CM without having to compromise on your DPS to do so, you're going to do a lot more DPS. Portal Strats are a thing in highly advanced and coordinated groups for this reason. Instead of dodging out and back in for mechanics where a ranged class can just move backwards, if you can avoid the mechanic altogether, you possess the same advantage that a ranged class has. Being able to cleave is a huge boost to the QoL of players in a multitude of scenarios and the game rewards you for cleaving with most fights benefiting from the effects of cleave. In terms of rotation, a harder rotation naturally should yield more damage. At the same time, a melee class should possess the ability to recover their rotations more easily than a ranged class when those rotations are interrupted. Not all classes can have viable access to pet tanking or range nor should that be the case. But to compensate, increased mobility, survivability or access to better utility should be given to those classes. Buffs to coefficients like they've been doing are going to do absolutely nothing. These are not good changes just because they look like a significant upgrade at face value. This is balancing around performance on a static golem and not a reflection of a proper fight scenario. Also this line of thinking is predicated on the notion that the classes are already well designed with respect to their combat system which, as previously established, they are not. A class that has a bench that is significantly worse and by significantly we're looking at around 20% DPS and still perceived to be overperforming compared to a class that theoretically has superb DPS reflects a significant flaw in class design for that class to perform at it's optimum level in the meta. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by RAZOR.7246

[Ruisenior.6342]

8 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

I just want to sum up why I think these Reaper changes are bad and don't achieve their goal. 

First of all the Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe Buffs - can we please, please stop with the trend of making all skills DPS skills to be pressed off-cooldown?

It's okay to have skills with the primary function of Mobility, CC or other (situational) Utility. Not everything needs to be mashed off-cooldown. 

 

Nightfall is used in conjunction with Well of Suffering, Well of Darkness and Grasping Darkness before entering Shroud to benefit from Death's Perception and Reaper's Onslaught's extra Critical Damage. What do all of those skills have in common? 25 second Cooldowns.

Not that a CD reduction is a bad thing, but I don't know what you expect this to accomplish as a means to increase Reaper's DPS. 

 

Chilling Scythe reducing the CD of Gravedigger - great.. more Gravedigger Spam. Why is this a bad change? Reaper already has massive Lifeforce Issues. 

Where does Reaper get a lot of it's already lacking LF from? The third hit of the AA on both Greatsword and Shroud. 

What do these Chilling Scythe, Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe buffs want you to do? Auto Attack less in GS and Shroud.

How do you expect this to work out?

 

So that leaves us with Soul Barbs, Chilling Nova and Dusk Strike buffs. 

 

More Soul Barb duration certainly is a plus, but it's really not going to do much at all either. Once again, Reaper simply doesn't have the LF to stay in Shroud for an extended amount of time. In real fights with incoming damage, especially post 50% Boss Health Gravedigger spam, Reaper genuinely a lot of times can't even stay in Shroud for the 10 seconds, sometimes barely getting a Soul Spiral in - something that will be even worse LF wise if trying to Utilize these buffed skills and Auto Attacking less.

This will mainly increase the low but already inflated Golem Benchmark slightly where LF management is easier due to not having to deal with incoming damage, without doing much in actual use cases.

 

Chilling Nova's ICD reduction is nice and probably the most significant Buff out of all of these, but since this can't Crit even this is fairly marginal and more of a Condi Reaper Buff with Deathly Chill, but okay. More Chill uptime is nice for Solo play at least.

 

And then there is a 0.2 coefficient buff on the first GS Auto, which you now want us to use less for even more Gravedigger usage. Any buff is a welcome one, but this is just so far off being enough - especially from the big PvE patch of the year which even has a focus on boosting underused power DPS Specs, like Reaper. 

Frankly, this is stuff I expect from monthly hotfixes, not changes worth waiting years for. 

 

Sooner or later you will have to put the work in to rework and buff Core Necro Weapons, especially the Off-Hands, as well as Spite Traits, especially the Master and Grandmaster Minors. 

I probably speak for most players in that we are so tired of watching you guys shuffle around coefficients for years and years, usually in the wrong places.

 

Why does Necro still have a "Deal 25% increased Damage while Downed" Trait in Spite? Why are you intent on buffing the damage of Skills like Death's Charge and Executioner's Scythe, which already have very real use cases in PvE for Mobility and CC (also, Purity of Purpose as Design Goal, anyone?), but skills like Unholy Feast on Axe are practically never worth pressing/way too situational? Speaking of Axe, why is the AA so awful (and even more so Staff)? How come it's only skill semi-worth pressing is Ghastly Claws - and that took 10 buffs over 10 freaking years!?

What is the point of Dagger MH? 

Why isn't there a single solid core Off-Hand on Necro? How about a single comparable Damage skill to Whirling Axe, Whirling Defense or even Shackling Wave, etc.? 

Even Ranger Warhorn as support weapon with AoE Fury, Might, Swiftness, Weakness, Daze and Blast Finisher (+Regen if Traited) on Call of the Wild has a better/more reliable damage skill with Hunter's Call than all Necro off-hands. 

Necro Warhorn is just utterly pathetic in comparison to everything else.

 

If you want to give Reaper "a bit more consistent pressure while out of shroud", this is where to start - and it needs more than "just a bit".

That's what i expect from a balance team member, understand the class so you can identify what's not working and apply a propper solution.

Since 2022 and eod kicked in every time it kicks a 'balance patch' im just scared, things are going crazy. What they did during all this year will hurt the player base really soon, time will tell. For my part im almost done with this 'once amazing game'.

 

[prototypedragon.1406]

I honestly would like to see more qol improvements for Warrior weapons and burst skills such as  core warrior sword F1 with the removal of self root for the low damage it already does and more additional counter abilities for dual swords that would allow it to be more of a fencer build similar to counterblow on mace but proving more direct attacks of several uses of riposte. Over the course of 10 years as a warrior main I don't believe I have seen few , if any dual sword Warriors. It is could be interesting if anet were to turn Final thrust into the F1 burst skill increasing its damage and bleed stacks based on  adrenaline spent per bar 2 Stacks of bleed per bar , Then 4 , Then 6. While making the F1 unblockable for each tier. Then Taking the 3 seconds of immbolise and adding it to sword four impale while keeping rip as it currently is. Then a replacement for skill 3 could be a channeled block as the warrior raises both swords ⚔️ that increases damage based on strikes it absorbs or reflects if used with shield master trait. Then at the end of the block duration add a flip over skill perhaps called downslash as the warrior slashes both swords downward or sword/axe  downward similar to axe 4 but doing increased damage on the blocked damage or strikes absorbed.  This is only just for sword mainhand but it could pair well to create synergy with other warrior weapons as well such as offhand mace,axe,warhorn,shield, dagger, and sword.🤔

 

 

[Griifen.2473]

13 hours ago, Brasides.9360 said:

Hey thanks for the detailed response - it is good to hear from a player who has been around the game for a while that there are a lot of viable options to play the classes in the way I most enjoy: running encounters with fewer than recommended players or solo.

I see that there are options currently to engage with theorycrafting, and enjoy doing that myself as a new players. I guess what is concerning to me is that most of the changes I see to the classes I've played (ele-sword weaver, ranger-untamed), are leaning in to traits that give a damage % increase (Ferocious Symbiosis) and away from those that rely on player actions to be effective (Fervent Force).

Maybe not everyone feels this way , but the most fun part of theory crafting to me is finding ways traits can interact with one another, not to provide a flat % damage bonus buff that I need to keep up, but rather to change the way I use skills together with one another. And there is a lot of "increase all dmg by x % when you have stacks of y" in these notes.

1. Catalyst: Empowering Auras
2. Willbender: Lethal Tempo & Tyrant's Momentum
3. Necromancer: Soul Barbs
4. Untamed: Ferocious Symbiosis

There might be more in the other classes but I am not familiar enough with them to say. On the other hand seeing that Firebrand is getting reworked to manage a class resource seems really interesting. I'm just a bit worried that there is more emphasis on the mechanics that give flat % dmg bonuses rather than rewarding a more interactive style of play.

 

I hear you on the simplicity of only going for % damage modifiers and how uninteresting this can be, but when you're making a build who's sole purpose it to do damage then these % modifiers absolutely make or break a build. 

 

As soon as venture outside of instanced group content this almost always falls away in favor of skill and trait synergy - and this becomes absolutely essential in competitive mods, most notably when roaming in WvW.

 

A nice example of this is the vindicator's dodge which is set in the grandmaster trait line. You use each grandmaster in pvp, pve, and WvW respectively and there are a lot of traits that synergise with each variety of effect-on-dodge. Another example is the daredevil's dodge which swaps between power, condition, and survivability/manuverability. For mesmers you can create builds that are centered around shattering whereas others don't favor shattering at all. Mechanist traits which completely alter how the mech behaves is another nice example. The arcane trait line in elemsntalist offers a lot of bonuses to swapping elemental attunements which works really with weavers when they don't have someone else offering them boons, but isn't as useful for tempests who need to stay in a single attunement for a long period of time in order to complete their overload. Ranger has two major utility buffing trait lines for survival and command skills which can really shake up your gameplay. Warriors can give themselves massive amounts of personal quickness at the cost of survivability, of they can become gods of might generation and practically never die so long as there's a single other player in close proximity. 

 

If you look around YouTube you'll find some channels that showcase runs which took 10+ hours of theory crafting anf practice in order to try break a record or make their make on unofficial leaderboards or just have bragging rights. This is especially seen in fractal runs and kill times on single fractal CM bosses where they would sometimes completely modify certain builds to allow every necessary boon to have 100% up time whilst perfectly allowing for the maximum damage output - and it's damage output that would put 90% of the playerbase to shame XD 

 

Sometimes flat damage % bonus are just the best trait to slot in because the other 2 alternatives are effectively useless, negligible with the gear stat set, or are covered in a more efficient way by another class. 

 

So my advice would be to try and look at these traits in light of the bigger picture. Are they alternatives that you could select and would they be worth the while for nor not you but your party/subgroup? Is an entire trait line chosen because of only a small handful of traits that offer a few thousand dps increases, whereas another trait line would offer much more engagement opportunities and may even an overall damage increase outside of optimal conditions? Could you chose an entirely different trait line that sacrifices 5k dps but offers your party extra healing, stability, aegis, boon extension, personal essential boon up time and massive amounts of personal sustain in tough situations (in case anyone is curious on taking about inspiration2-2-3 with mantra of concentration for mesmers instead of dueling for condition builds). 

[Subtlemuse.3586]

Yeah these Deadeye proposed changes are an odd solution. I seldom post in the forums but as Riffle Deadeye is one of my favourite openworld thief specs to play i'd hate to lose all that class fantasy i so enjoy. The really poorly implemented and awfully animated walk slow hardly seems like it will even address their perceived mobility issue, in fact the increased kneel cost seems to worsen it. A simple jump whilst kneeling seems a better fix rather then gutting the feel of the class or removing the initiative cost from kneel completely. I mean do they honestly think a 75% reduced speed is really going to help you avoid the thousands of telegraphed attacks and red circles all over the floor. I can't think of a situation where moving at a snails pace is better then just getting up and repositioning at 100% speed. Its a worrying trend in these balance patches were class fantasy feel is being sacrificed to not even address the issue its being sacrificed for. With all the mobility tools at the thief's disposal that allow repositioning whilst kneeling, why not just give reduced cd trait or a better mobility skill whilst kneeling. The forums seem full of great ideas that retain class fantasy feel and actually address that they claim is an issue.