Stop, he's already dead.

[SolarDragon.7063]

I'm glad Arenanet is fixing bugs.

But fixing those bugs being the nail in the coffin of the death of mech being power-viable is a sour taste.

[Infusion.7149]

Good thing there's 2 other power engineers.

[Jerus.4350]

8 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Good thing there's 2 other power engineers.

2? Are you forgetting Core? 😛.  
 

Really though, can we stop now? And can we get a little love for condi mech to help with the collateral damage?

[Kuma.1503]

The only bugs we fix are the beneficial ones. 

 

[freakcoco.4287]

jajajaja

There is no hurt to nerf a death build.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

The only bugs we fix are the beneficial ones.

But the fix for the pistol casting time will come soon, right? Surely it won't take them 10 years just to make the adjustment and let the skill fire at a rate it states in the tooltip.

That fix will come aaaaaaaany minute now..... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany minute.....

[Kuma.1503]

54 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

But the fix for the pistol casting time will come soon, right? Surely it won't take them 10 years just to make the adjustment and let the skill fire at a rate it states in the tooltip.

That fix will come aaaaaaaany minute now..... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany minute.....

I couldn't decide between laugh and cry emoji so just take a heart. 

[Stalima.5490]

7 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Good thing there's 2 other power engineers.

well if the rune of the engineer is anything to go by, the core engi is meant to be more of a condition tank, arguably using power/precision/toughness/condition damage but that isn't even a set you can do.

although since it is core you would also need to assume it is meant to work with 3 stats which would be rabid but then it can't really use rabid because they nerfed sharpshooter to almost nothing in pvp.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Stalima.5490

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 12/14/2022 at 2:39 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Good thing there's 2 other power engineers.

 

Me looking at all the Ele main crying because one skill has been nerfed and the spec was overperforming

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/14/2022 at 3:53 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

But the fix for the pistol casting time will come soon, right? Surely it won't take them 10 years just to make the adjustment and let the skill fire at a rate it states in the tooltip.

That fix will come aaaaaaaany minute now..... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany minute.....

It will come Soon(tm).

Which, as anyone with experience in the game industry knows, means "any time between now and the heat death of the universe".

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Me looking at all the Ele main crying because one skill has been nerfed and the spec was overperforming

 

 

I can understand the sense of whiplash, though.

 

Arenanet: buffs hammer orbs so they actually do meaningful damage

TWO WEEKS LATER...

Arenanet: nerfs hammer orbs so they do basically no damage again

 

The orbs doing damage or not does actually make a difference to how the specialisation is played, in contrast to if they'd just reduced everything by 10%. So I could see justification players being frustrated at it being switched around so quickly. ArenaNet really needs to decide there which they think it should be and stick to it. Doesn't really matter all that much which (personally, I prefer them simply being buffs, but that's because I want to see fire and air get a range increase and hammer actually becoming a decent melee/ranged hybrid weapon), but make a decision and commit. Flip-flopping on something that influences how the weapon is played is just frustrating.

Edited December 15, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Kodama.6453]

9 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Flip-flopping on something that influences how the weapon is played is just frustrating.

Nah, we just have to evolve as players and integrate anet's flip flopping into our rotations.

firestorm -> fire sphere -> attune to pre December patch -> flame wheel -> attune to post December patch -> relentless fire......

Ezpz

[Infusion.7149]

6 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Me looking at all the Ele main crying because one skill has been nerfed and the spec was overperforming

 

 

Overperforming on benchmarks only, versus being dominant in just about every instanced content (and still is, when I PUGed last night half the people were running power mech with rifle) and an eyesore in openworld.

Also I am not an ele main if that is what you are insinuating, I have more hours on engi than ele...

Edited December 15, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[freakcoco.4287]

13 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Overperforming on benchmarks only, versus being dominant in just about every instanced content (and still is, when I PUGed last night half the people were running power mech with rifle) and an eyesore in openworld.

Also I am not an ele main if that is what you are insinuating, I have more hours on engi than ele...

I just don't get it, when I 'm pluged a strike or raid, there always have 2~3 power rifle mech.

Most of it have lowest dps except sup, if they change to condi mech or power scrapper which still a low apm dps, and it will boost their dps a lot , but ppl still play power auto rifle mech.

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, freakcoco.4287 said:

I just don't get it, when I 'm pluged a strike or raid, there always have 2~3 power rifle mech.

Most of it have lowest dps except sup, if they change to condi mech or power scrapper which still a low apm dps, and it will boost their dps a lot , but ppl still play power auto rifle mech.

Not everyone pays attention to patchnotes and even if they did the mech still does most of the heavy lifting. You could get ~24K DPS with no actions whatsoever just autocasts which is around 70% bench before the last bugfix. I have to test it again since I don't play power mech (play power holo and quick scrapper) but that's the situation. A similar low effort (three APM) power holo is around 25K which is behind power mech.

See this video by someone that makes low effort builds:

versus power holo which is mostly melee

 

[Kuma.1503]

I'd like them to employ a solution other than nerfing it every patch. If it's passive damage is an issue, make it less passive. Remove auto cast. 

If it being fully ranged is an issue. Give it more incentive to stay close to the boss like Virutoso. Which could have been achieved by transferring damage from the rifle auto attack onto blunderbuss. (This would have also been preferable to removing a bullet)

If it being easy is an issue, the two above suggestions will help with that. But there are other solutions that I won't go into here for the sake of post length. 

They could nerf mech to 25k DPS tops and it would still clear content because DPS checks barely exist in this game., but that's the wrong direction to take. Instaed, they should try to convert it into a build that is still easy to pick up, but with a much more noticeable skill curve. Then tune it back up to be in line with what you'd expect from a pure DPS class. ~36-40k DPS. Which seems to be the current standard. 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Nash.2681]

Gotta love them PMech players still being able to dish out 20k+ dps with low to no effort and still complaining... why doesn't ANet just patch in a new "Mech lovers only" mode where everyone that joins gets all possible ingame rewards for free...

[Batalix.2873]

4 hours ago, freakcoco.4287 said:

I just don't get it, when I 'm pluged a strike or raid, there always have 2~3 power rifle mech.

Most of it have lowest dps except sup, if they change to condi mech or power scrapper which still a low apm dps, and it will boost their dps a lot , but ppl still play power auto rifle mech.

 

This is what the critics have been trying to get across for AGES.

 

Power rifle mech is a community issue, at least as much so as a design issue, because it appeals to the worst in consumers. By existing as a practically zero-effort spec, it doesn't need to be "high DPS". As long as it does "good enough" DPS it will always be favored by a pretty sizeable population of players who are lazy, and prioritize "ease of play" over engagement or skill.

 

So we should not be surprised that:

 

(a) a nerf that didn't completely obliterate power DPS didn't remove the utility/viability of an "afk-lite" espec; nor

 

(b) that the lazy kittens who all flocked to power Mech weren't also lazy enough to stick with power Mech instead of putting in the effort to figure out a new build/espec.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Batalix.2873

[Gendalfs.7521]

Yeah , your right now i know this is not the game for usual players.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Just be honest and admit you were only playing Power Mech for the machinegun and don't care about the damage, because the damage hasn't changed much despite many nerfs.

 

They've been very, very conservative with it compared to heavy-handed nerfs other classes receive. Its taken them over half a year just to bring it in line, during which PMech dominated all content, and it still has some of the easiest and most resiliant DPS options possible.

 

Try playing something like Ele where you lose half your damage every other patch.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Gendalfs.7521]

I admit i play only Pmech AND dmg is MUch lower. I cant speak over other classes because I cant play them all. 

[Cyninja.2954]

It's unfortunate that pmech had to and is going through all these "changes". Was completely predictable though.

 

The original output it had with the innate low (almost non existent) interaction requirement was called out by many, myself included. The general response by some few was: pmech is balanced and fine (hilarious in hindsight).

 

Followed by some even worse design changes (pet skill auto-cast) which further reduced the already almost non existent interaction requirement to literally 0 past pressing 1 to start the fight (remember, this was still close to 30k dps, while the actual "rotation" was producing 35-38k on the golem). Paired with near permanent damage uptime at max range, self boons to cover for bad boon uptime by weaker supports, massive utility, etc.

 

The obvious result: massive amounts of players flocking to the class/elite getting used to a degenerate play-style which produced far to high output.

 

Now, multiple "changes" later there is finally some actual discussion about how and what design and balance decisions could be done while the spec is likely still far more over-represented compared to almost any other spec, not because many actually feel that way but in an attempt to convince the developers that nuking the spec even more should be avoided. Imagine if some of these ideas had come at the very beginning (and in all fairness, they did come from some players).

Edited December 15, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:34 AM, SolarDragon.7063 said:

I'm glad Arenanet is fixing bugs.

But fixing those bugs being the nail in the coffin of the death of mech being power-viable is a sour taste.

But it really isn't dead though.

[freakcoco.4287]

11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Not everyone pays attention to patchnotes and even if they did the mech still does most of the heavy lifting. You could get ~24K DPS with no actions whatsoever just autocasts which is around 70% bench before the last bugfix. I have to test it again since I don't play power mech (play power holo and quick scrapper) but that's the situation. A similar low effort (three APM) power holo is around 25K which is behind power mech.

See this video by someone that makes low effort builds:

versus power holo which is mostly melee

 

 

It's not a benchmark

Rifle mech got nerf really hard , and it is death , it cannot compare with other low intensity build .

 

 

holosmith

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by freakcoco.4287

[Alcatraznc.3869]

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Overperforming on benchmarks only, versus being dominant in just about every instanced content (and still is, when I PUGed last night half the people were running power mech with rifle) and an eyesore in openworld.

Also I am not an ele main if that is what you are insinuating, I have more hours on engi than ele...

 

Funny enough when I pugged I only met 1 Pmech out of 5 group. But that aside, all the people complaining about Mech used benchmark performance so I'm not going to restrain myself on that as well. 

 

And no I dont care about what you main, I just find it funny when a spec, especially an Ele spec, is overperforming and gets a slight adjustement, people suddenly cry the end of the world .But when Engineer complains that Anet literally killed the only good core weapon worth using in PvP/WvW and made the PvE version unfun, everyone act like justice has been restored. But like you say, Elementalist still has other DPS spec.