Shadowmeld does not remove revealed.

[Padra.1678]

Shadowmeld no longer removes revealed and got no buff to compensate. So what is the point of it? What is Anet thinking?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Woooooooooow, they really did this.

- "Shadow Meld: This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW."

That's just bad. I mean out of all the things I have to comment on in this patch, this is actually absurdly bad of a decision. Who in the balance team thought this was a good idea? You could write a short essay on why Deadeye needs that elite to be able to remove reveal. Just wow man.

These patches aren't just silly and unknowledgeable anymore, they're getting to be straight up scary. This game is going to be completely broken in 12 months if they don't lay off the dumb patching like this, unfortunately.

I understand the stir the bucket approach to keep things fresh but man, do it with some finesse.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Shadow Meld change is along the lines of the Bladesworn one where they replaced stability with protection.  In that, it's bad and going to make the spec a lot harder to play.

They could have just nerfed the ammo count to 1 and gotten the same effect; you can still remove revealed but can't spam shadow meld.  It'd make it more difficult to play DE but not impossible like removing reveal removal functionality altogether does.

Another fun fact, Shadow Meld is now worse as an Elite than Blinding Powder is as a utility skill.  As now Shadow Meld just stealths you like BP does but that's it.  No stability, less stealth duration, no AoE blindness, and no stunbreak.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Bazsi.2734]

I love how there isn't even a justification for it. They explained all the menial changes, but when it comes to this, it's just there.

Basicly if the enemy runs 2+ builds with easy to land reveals, you don't get to play the game as deadeye anymore. Sic_'Em!, On_My_Mark... these take 0 effort to land. On top of that, dragonhunter just got buffed, spellbreaker is meta, tools holo is making rounds... so we're shaping a meta where reveals are quite common. And you choose to remove the reason Shadow_Meld is an elite skill right now? 😄

I'd be angry if I cared, but at this point it's just funny. 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Sadly teef wasn't deleted from game, but I'll take that small nerf.

[Barabbas.8715]

Deadeye? Now more like Deadguy. 😂🤣

[Terrorhuz.4695]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Woooooooooow, they really did this.

- "Shadow Meld: This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW."

That's just bad. I mean out of all the things I have to comment on in this patch, this is actually absurdly bad of a decision. Who in the balance team thought this was a good idea? You could write a short essay on why Deadeye needs that elite to be able to remove reveal. Just wow man.

Imagine landing your spear of justice, the designated counter to stealth, and the thief just going LMAO NO and ignoring your mechanic altogether.

Imagine DE mememasters crying all of these tears because 6 years after release someone dared giving them an actually bad matchup, instead of allowing them to literally not give a kitten thanks to a gazillion ports then blinds then ignoring that one mechanic intentionally designed to prevent stealth abuse.

Imagine being unable to realize you still have ports and blinds and projectiles blocks and you're actually fighting from 1200 range, it's just you being unable to realize DJ was given the revealed for a reason and you can't just ignore that anymore.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Bazsi.2734]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Imagine landing your spear of justice, the designated counter to stealth, and the thief just going LMAO NO and ignoring your mechanic altogether.

Imagine DE mememasters crying all of these tears because 6 years after release someone dared giving them an actually bad matchup, instead of allowing them to literally not give a kitten thanks to a gazillion ports then blinds then ignoring that one mechanic intentionally designed to prevent stealth abuse.

Imagine being unable to realize you still have ports and blinds and projectiles blocks and you're actually fighting from 1200 range, it's just you being unable to realize DJ was given the revealed for a reason and you can't just ignore that anymore.

If you landed spear of justice, you can still just pull the thief into his death. This change is equivalent of removing CC from Gravity Well because "mesmer already have a lot of CC". If reveal application got an all around nerf, it would still not make sense because skills like Blinding_Powder and Shadow_Gust exist. They apply longer stealth, have extra effects(stunbreak/combo finisher/CC etc.), and have a lower cooldown.

Deadeye will still be viable in many many matchups, but this change is just flat out r*****ed. If the goal is for reveal to absolutely hardcounter deadeye(your elite-spec mechanic is centered around spending malice, have fun doing that while not being able to stealth), rework Shadow Meld into something else.
Having it as a useless, weaker version of some support skill is just... a reminder that whoever thought things will be different with the new "balance team"... well they won't be. 2015 is over and will never come back.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

4 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

If you landed spear of justice, you can still just pull the thief into his death. This change is equivalent of removing CC from Gravity Well because "mesmer already have a lot of CC". If reveal application got an all around nerf, it would still not make sense because skills like Blinding_Powder and Shadow_Gust exist. They apply longer stealth, have extra effects(stunbreak/combo finisher/CC etc.), and have a lower cooldown.

Deadeye will still be viable in many many matchups, but this change is just flat out r*****ed. If the goal is for reveal to absolutely hardcounter deadeye(your elite-spec mechanic is centered around spending malice, have fun doing that while not being able to stealth), rework Shadow Meld into something else.
Having it as a useless, weaker version of some support skill is just... a reminder that whoever thought things will be different with the new "balance team"... well they won't be. 2015 is over and will never come back.

Reveal was supposed to counter r*****ed stealth, yet DE somehow got a counter to a counter, quite garbage design philosophy right there. 
Deadeye like Mirage and other elite specializations were a mistake in the first place. It'll still be busted with all the stealth, mobility, blinds, evades and teleports that core provides.

[Sahne.6950]

6 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I love how there isn't even a justification for it. They explained all the menial changes, but when it comes to this, it's just there.
 

They said that reveal is the direct counter to stealth.

Therefore they think a skill that removes reveal AND stealths isnt good design.

 

something along those lines has been said.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Bazsi.2734]

36 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Reveal was supposed to counter r*****ed stealth, yet DE somehow got a counter to a counter, quite garbage design philosophy right there. 
Deadeye like Mirage and other elite specializations were a mistake in the first place. It'll still be busted with all the stealth, mobility, blinds, evades and teleports that core provides.

CC counters skillcasting. Stability counters CC.
Snares are supposed to counter movement. Resistance counters(ignores) all kinds of snare.
Blocking is supposed to counter incoming attacks. Unblockable buffs/attacks counter blocks.... 

Counter to a counter is a thing that is implemented in multiple different ways in this game. I don't get how people make this argument against Shadow Meld and think they are making a good point. Just say you hate thief, and don't actually care about balance.

Shadow Meld is going to be utterly useless now. Simple support skills do everything it does with lower cooldowns and extra effects on top... why is it an elite at this point? Maybe a rework instead? As I've said... multi dollar company.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

3 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

CC counters skillcasting. Stability counters CC.
Snares are supposed to counter movement. Resistance counters(ignores) all kinds of snare.
Blocking is supposed to counter incoming attacks. Unblockable buffs/attacks counter blocks.... 

Counter to a counter is a thing that is implemented in multiple different ways in this game. I don't get how people make this argument against Shadow Meld and think they are making a good point. Just say you hate thief, and don't actually care about balance.

Shadow Meld is going to be utterly useless now. Simple support skills do everything it does with lower cooldowns and extra effects on top... why is it an elite at this point? Maybe a rework instead? As I've said... multi dollar company.

Your argument would be valid if:

• Stealth wasn't busted.
• Stealth wasn't stackable.
• Teef wasn't busted with all evades, mobility, blinds, teleports and stealth.
• There was more access to reveal skills in the game.

Stealth has no real counter in this game at all. Revealed needs to hit a teef to even work, which itself is not kitten easy to do so with that engine that barely runs on 2 hamsters.
You also somehow compare effects that are visible to perfect invisibility. There's big difference when enemy blocks an attack and you see it than teef camping in stealth and doing kitten knows what, sandwich? 
Having a counter to a counter that is almost as rare as precursor drop is bad design. 

[apharma.3741]

I remember when DE first came out and everyone was raging at ANet letting shadowmeld remove reveal and how dumb that was. Now they're finally doing the right thing  and removing it, the forums and thieves are up in arms. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[UNOwen.7132]

18 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Your argument would be valid if:

• Stealth wasn't busted.

It really isnt. Stealth attacks are good, but stealth you mostly just want to go into to trigger the SA traits, and then get out of it ASAP.

18 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

• Stealth wasn't stackable.

How is that relevant to Shadow Meld? Youre not gonna be stacking stealth after removing revealed with Shadow Meld. Youre gonna exit stealth. Its an in-combat skill.

18 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

• Teef wasn't busted with all evades, mobility, blinds, teleports and stealth.

And yet thief is the one class that has no 1v1 build ever since the Spectre nerfs, and relies entirely on +1s. Mobility is its saving grace. Or was, perhaps, in the current cata meta a thief is ironically a liability. 

18 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

• There was more access to reveal skills in the game.

Stealth has no real counter in this game at all. Revealed needs to hit a teef to even work, which itself is not kitten easy to do so with that engine that barely runs on 2 hamsters.

Stealth has something even better than counters. It has counterplay. You cant see the thief, but you can very much so hit him, and if youre melee, you can track him through stealth. All while the thief cant fight back while in stealth. Its why the optimal strategy is to spend as little time in stealth as possible.

18 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You also somehow compare effects that are visible to perfect invisibility. There's big difference when enemy blocks an attack and you see it than teef camping in stealth and doing kitten knows what, sandwich? 
Having a counter to a counter that is almost as rare as precursor drop is bad design. 

If the thief is camping in stealth, theyre doing it out of combat, where revealed doesnt matter (outside of WvW, but then the reveal gets reapplied). Block is generally MUCH more powerful than stealth, and its not even remotely close.

[ollbirtan.2915]

I mean, it's CMC "balance". Not surprised anymore. Every "balance" patch is like a roll of dice,  

[Crab Fear.8623]

7 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Imagine landing your spear of justice, the designated counter to stealth, and the thief just going LMAO NO and ignoring your mechanic altogether.

Imagine DE mememasters crying all of these tears because 6 years after release someone dared giving them an actually bad matchup, instead of allowing them to literally not give a kitten thanks to a gazillion ports then blinds then ignoring that one mechanic intentionally designed to prevent stealth abuse.

Imagine being unable to realize you still have ports and blinds and projectiles blocks and you're actually fighting from 1200 range, it's just you being unable to realize DJ was given the revealed for a reason and you can't just ignore that anymore.

you sound angry

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

3 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

It really isnt. Stealth attacks are good, but stealth you mostly just want to go into to trigger the SA traits, and then get out of it ASAP.

That's wishful thinking. It's up to teef if it wants ot keep sitting in stealth or not. Triggering SA traits is just bonus for that.

3 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

How is that relevant to Shadow Meld? Youre not gonna be stacking stealth after removing revealed with Shadow Meld. Youre gonna exit stealth. Its an in-combat skill.

Again wishful thinking. Teef may or may not leave stealth, Shadow Meld was removing potential danger that was still very useless against teleports and evasion.

3 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

And yet thief is the one class that has no 1v1 build ever since the Spectre nerfs, and relies entirely on +1s. Mobility is its saving grace. Or was, perhaps, in the current cata meta a thief is ironically a liability. 

Good. Imagine if a class with such high mobility and stealth access could also have good 1v1 build. Teefs don't want to work for their kills, they want ez bags as it's used to be.

3 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Stealth has something even better than counters. It has counterplay. You cant see the thief, but you can very much so hit him, and if youre melee, you can track him through stealth. All while the thief cant fight back while in stealth. Its why the optimal strategy is to spend as little time in stealth as possible.

That's false. Superspeed says hi, teleports says hi, blinds says hi, evades says hi, environment says hi. Another wishful thinking that you'll get lucky enough to get random hit if gw2 server and engine will be cooperative enough to register hits.

3 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

If the thief is camping in stealth, theyre doing it out of combat, where revealed doesnt matter (outside of WvW, but then the reveal gets reapplied). Block is generally MUCH more powerful than stealth, and its not even remotely close.

False, they can keep you in combat forever, same with conditions that'll tick on you while enemy will mount-up and fly away on rainbow, while you still fight with poison. Stealth > Block any day, With block, you can track enemy and get ready to hit/cc/whatever, with stealth it's guess game "did teef went to make sandwich already?", "has teef logged out yet?", "did he go behind that rock?", "has he swapped weapons to harass me with his busted 4 on sb yet?", "did he port on that edge?". Too many possibilities for just "3s stealth" alone and it can be extended.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

35 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

you sound angry

I am savagely happy for shadow meld tbh

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

That's wishful thinking. It's up to teef if it wants ot keep sitting in stealth or not. Triggering SA traits is just bonus for that.

Nah. When youre in stealth you can be hit, but you cant hit your enemy. Its straight up bad to stay in stealth, especially because stalling for time favours you more than the thief. You have more cooldowns coming up at once, and yours are more valuable. Why do you think the SA changes that incentivised leaving stealth ASAP instead of incentivising staying in stealth were such a huge buff?

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Again wishful thinking. Teef may or may not leave stealth, Shadow Meld was removing potential danger that was still very useless against teleports and evasion.

If the thief is staying in stealth, congrats, youre getting free damage. The only time you wouldnt is if your class is exclusively targetted non-channeled ranged damage. Which doesnt exist. Shadow Meld wasnt removing potential danger, because revealed wasnt dangerous against. It was improving your offense by allowing you to skip a lockout, because thats what stealth is for.

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Good. Imagine if a class with such high mobility and stealth access could also have good 1v1 build. Teefs don't want to work for their kills, they want ez bags as it's used to be.

The stealth access is still not even remotely as valuable as you think it is. As for mobility ... yeah that could be an issue, but even then, it wouldnt have to be good, just not the by far worst in the game, but also ... Im not sure thats true anymore. We see from the current meta that thief is just not even worth playing. Then again, Cata is busted. Also its funny to hear that others dont want to work for their kills and want "ez bags as it's used to be." coming from a Cata Main. Who kept downplaying Cata until 5 Catas won the MAT. "Above average strength", remember?

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

That's false. Superspeed says hi, teleports says hi, blinds says hi, evades says hi, environment says hi. Another wishful thinking that you'll get lucky enough to get random hit if gw2 server and engine will be cooperative enough to register hits.

No, its very much so true. Superspeed is definitely good, but it only lasts 1.5 seconds, if youre staying in stealth, you wont have it. Blinds, what blinds? Thief isnt gonna be hitting you with blind from stealth. You might at best have 1 blind as they enter, but its not like autoattack chains take 3 seconds to cast. Evades, congrats, you forced them to burn defensive cooldowns because stealth is kitten at defense, and you think thats a bad thing? If they were blocking they wouldnt have to evade, now would they?

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

False, they can keep you in combat forever, same with conditions that'll tick on you while enemy will mount-up and fly away on rainbow, while you still fight with poison. Stealth > Block any day, With block, you can track enemy and get ready to hit/cc/whatever, with stealth it's guess game "did teef went to make sandwich already?", "has teef logged out yet?", "did he go behind that rock?", "has he swapped weapons to harass me with his busted 4 on sb yet?", "did he port on that edge?". Too many possibilities for just "3s stealth" alone and it can be extended.

No, they cant. Well in theory if youre a 0 mobility class they can try to keep you in combat by staying just barely within your range and using teleports to move around if need be, but that sounds extremely inefficient and pointless to begin with. Even in WvW. If you think stealth is better than block, then you are simply very bad at the game. Any thief would happily trade stealth for block (assuming stealth attacks get some other way of being unlocked, of course). I mean thatd be one hell of an upgrade. 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Going invisible is already a cheaters mechanic. Stop yooo complainings.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Your argument would be valid if:

• Stealth wasn't busted.

Stealth in itself doesn't do anything(except preventing capture point contribution). Whenever a stealth heavy build is OP, it's because of all the other stuff it does on top of having lots of stealth. What do you mean stealth is busted? You mean you hate thief?
 

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Stealth wasn't stackable.

Stacking stealth is not a thing since the SA rework. Why would you say stacking it is a pro? You mean you hate thief?
 

 

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Teef wasn't busted with all evades, mobility, blinds, teleports and stealth.

Yes, thieves farming ranked and tournaments is a really big problem right now... oh wait no it isn't! You just hate thief.

 

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

There was more access to reveal skills in the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

I came to the conclusion that there is more than enough, and if you have the same superpower as me(called reading) you can too! It's possible to make viable team compositions where everyone can reveal. I barely played a few ranked matches on DE this season, but the one where I met such a comp - I was entirely useless in teamfights. The enemy did not focus me much, they just maintained reveal on me. I had to go sidenode and duel because anything above 2v2 meant I had 2 traitlines and my e-spec mechanic turned off. Permanently.
There is no other mechanic in this game where you can debuff an enemy with just 1 buttonpress and ignore it for 6-10 seconds while you beat the rest of their team. But again, I bet you think this should be a special case, because thief is very very ugly.

 

5 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Stealth has no real counter in this game at all. 

Keep repeating that. For those statements which are that detached from reality, an immense amount of repetition is needed to be accepted as truth.

 

5 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You also somehow compare effects that are visible to perfect invisibility. There's big difference when enemy blocks an attack and you see it than teef camping in stealth and doing kitten knows what, sandwich? 
Having a counter to a counter that is almost as rare as precursor drop is bad design. 

And the goalposts moved... now reveal is just too rare, so that's why it shouldn't have a counter. I slotted the skill, I pressed the button, HOW COME I DONT WIN BY DEFAULT NOW??? THIEF BAD!!!

Just so that this post is more than me mocking someone else, here is a question:

What do you think deadeye should be? What strenghts/weaknesses, what should it be able to do?

[CutesySylveon.8290]

I'm not going to give any thoughts on if Shadow Meld should or should not have kept its ability to remove reveal, but removing the entire reason it existed without giving it something back is just ridiculous. 

 

Either leave it how it was, or rework it. As it stands, it will just be a weaker Blinding Powder. Why use it over Dagger Storm at that point?

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

6 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

CC counters skillcasting. Stability counters CC.
Snares are supposed to counter movement. Resistance counters(ignores) all kinds of snare.
Blocking is supposed to counter incoming attacks. Unblockable buffs/attacks counter blocks.... 

Counter to a counter is a thing that is implemented in multiple different ways in this game. I don't get how people make this argument against Shadow Meld and think they are making a good point. Just say you hate thief, and don't actually care about balance.

Shadow Meld is going to be utterly useless now. Simple support skills do everything it does with lower cooldowns and extra effects on top... why is it an elite at this point? Maybe a rework instead? As I've said... multi dollar company.

Well said

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

4 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I was entirely useless in teamfights. The enemy did not focus me much, they just maintained reveal on me. I had to go sidenode and duel because anything above 2v2 meant I had 2 traitlines and my e-spec mechanic turned off. Permanently.

There is no other mechanic in this game where you can debuff an enemy with just 1 buttonpress and ignore it for 6-10 seconds while you beat the rest of their team. But again, I bet you think this should be a special case, because thief is very very ugly.

Wait .... Warrior vs Thief Pistol 5 😛

 

Wait..the eenemy Ranger used the Reveal+40% damage increase dot on you , but kept hitting the other person ? (...so he choosedto sucrifice his 40% damage dot to prevent you from doing dps (sniper shot) , rather than killing the target faster ?..Shouldnt we award him the MOST INGINIOUS PLAYER AWARD! where he finds tactics upon tactics ??)

If the enemys didnt dare to touch you ,that meant that they know that DE have great mobility/survibity and it will be a waste to chase him/kill him and they would rather hit the immobilize Nerco with the 30 millions Shields

Thankfully you can freecast the 3rd Rifle button , or use Sword 1-3

 

(The Raiders are kinda cowardy  .... needs some friends)

Edited February 5, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Kuma.1503]

So... If I proc Lock On on a DE, they just can't land Death's Judgement anymore? 

Seems very well thought through. 

But removing things that an entire elite spec is balanced around with no thought or compensation is par for the course with Anet. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Kuma.1503
*cough* Scrapper Quickness *cough*