Yearly/Semi-Yearly Expansions Sounds a lot like Icebrood Saga we pay for.

[Gibson.4036]

15 minutes ago, EquinoxPower.4783 said:

we haven't had any desert since the end of LSW4 so about 3 years ago why is this relevant now xD

Well there was this concrete desert zone released about a year ago....

😄

[Ashen.2907]

9 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Well there was this concrete desert zone released about a year ago....

😄

A concrete desert more lifeless than the toxic wastelands of the Desolation.

[Astralporing.1957]

35 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

True, because there are limited resources and not enough to do everything justice for everyone.

Not only that. It's also the interests of some player groups can be in direct conflict to each other. By satisfying one group you would be at the same time making other players displeased. So, even in the purely theoretical case of having no limits on resources, you still  could never please everyone.

[Firebeard.1746]

8 hours ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

To me, this comes off as the prior promises to do the above (Replace Raids with Strikes, though), though with a "Pay us now" addendum and I'm not too sure about that.  They couldn't deliver on the promises when it was being done cheaper, why should I believe they can now suddenly do it if I pay them $30 every 3-4 months / twice a year?

If they're getting more money, then they should have more money to spend on development, so they're actually more likely to come through on their promises if people actually buy the expansions. 

The other thing you've mentioned where they've made random promises but not gone through was kind of addressed in the post: they mentioned not having the bandwidth to do everything because they weren't focused. 

I would hope they don't do 2 expansions per year, that sounds like too much. Some players already play this game because it's cheaper and sometimes struggle to get the next thing, I would imagine for the masses that fall in that category, once a year is the most they can ask. I could pay twice, and I probably would if they don't poop out another DE meta on me, but it wouldn't go over well in terms of maintaining the population. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Firebeard.1746

[mythical.6315]

50 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

they're actually more likely to come through on their promises

Be careful regarding what gets labeled as a ‘promise’ 

[Krzysztof.5973]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not only that. It's also the interests of some player groups can be in direct conflict to each other. By satisfying one group you would be at the same time making other players displeased. So, even in the purely theoretical case of having no limits on resources, you still  could never please everyone.

Of course you can please everyone. You would have to begin by releasing the game with set in stone content that never changes the formula. If ANet for example, never introduced 10man content and explicitly said they never will, there would be no groups to be satisfied among the community they cultivated. 
Problem is, they wanted to create a niche and draw from other community outside their game in order to grow. 

[EquinoxPower.4783]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Well there was this concrete desert zone released about a year ago....

😄

Good one  ! You are right tho...

[Doctor Hide.6345]

     I will just say this. I think Anet has to come out and be less vague on some stuff and say what they truly mean and want to do. There is too many questions from people like me who don't trust them at all to deliver because of their past which they have put in fear mode. Their post was poorly written in my opinion with not enough details where there should have been more. They need to go into more detail soon hopefully explaining:

*Will there be elites. Saying Combat options is too vague

*The actual price and not saying less than normal expansion

*What the actual time frame is in normal terms aka Every year or year and a half etc

*Basically anything else they were vague about

     If they did that, I think more people would be on board with it, but for now, they are basically trust us because we said so without any detail on why we should.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[EquinoxPower.4783]

14 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     I will just say this. I think Anet has to come out and be less vague and some stuff and say what they truly mean and want to do. There is too many questions from people like me who don't trust them at all to deliver because of their past which they have put in fear mode. Their post was poorly written in my opinion with not enough details where there should have been more. They need to go into more detail soon hopefully explaining:

*Will there be elites. Saying Combat options is too vague

*The actual price and not saying less than normal expansion

*What the actual time frame is in normal terms aka Every year or year and a half etc

*Basically anything else they were vague about

     If they did that, I think more people would be on board with it, but for now, they are basically trust us because we said so without any detail on why we should.

Come to think of it you are 100% right, I think if the blog post wasn't so blatantly vague alot of people would decide which side they are, if they like the changes or not.There is alot of uncertainity in the community right now and I think thats not a great thing. I think the biggest issue with the vagueness present in the blog post is that it shows ANet hasn't really made up their mind with specific things, things that you mentioned like:

1. Price
2. Actual Features
3. Better view of this year timeframe
    

Or maybe ANet already figured stuff out, which I hope they did, so why being so vague and secretive...

Edited February 17, 2023 by EquinoxPower.4783

[Doctor Hide.6345]

30 minutes ago, EquinoxPower.4783 said:

Come to think of it you are 100% right, I think if the blog post wasn't so blatantly vague alot of people would decide which side they are, if they like the changes or not.There is alot of uncertainity in the community right now and I think thats not a great thing. I think the biggest issue with the vagueness present in the blog post is that it shows ANet hasn't really made up their mind with specific things, things that you mentioned like:

1. Price
2. Actual Features
3. Better view of this year timeframe
    

Or maybe ANet already figured stuff out, which I hope they did, so why being so vague and secretive...

     I'll be honest here. I hate it when any developer goes the super vague mode because I am a detailed person when it comes to people telling me stuff for me to make informed decisions. I prefer Yoshi-P's direct level of honesty of what they are and are not doing when it comes to game devs and talking to the community. I know that is a rare thing for game companies to do, but I would love it if Anet was just a tad bit more honest and not vague about that kind of stuff to alleviate people like me fears.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Gibson.4036]

12 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     I'll be honest here. I hate it when any developer goes the super vague mode because I am a detailed person when it comes to people telling me stuff for me to make informed decisions. I prefer Yoshi-P's direct level of honesty of what they and are not doing when it comes to game devs and talking to the community. I know that is a rare thing for game companies to do, but I would love it if Anet was just a tad bit more honest and not vague about that kind of stuff to alleviate people like me fears.

Completely agree here.

I’ve had enough experience with ArenaNet saying vague things that I interpreted to positively. It’d probably derail this thread to bring up specifics, but when they go vague and sound like politicians, I now think they’re holding back details they know will rile people.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     I will just say this. I think Anet has to come out and be less vague on some stuff and say what they truly mean and want to do. There is too many questions from people like me who don't trust them at all to deliver because of their past which they have put in fear mode. Their post was poorly written in my opinion with not enough details where there should have been more. They need to go into more detail soon hopefully explaining:

*Will there be elites. Saying Combat options is too vague

*The actual price and not saying less than normal expansion

*What the actual time frame is in normal terms aka Every year or year and a half etc

*Basically anything else they were vague about

     If they did that, I think more people would be on board with it, but for now, they are basically trust us because we said so without any detail on why we should.

They already said they'll be clarifying some things in the future. Not sure why people are working themselves up as if they need these answers now when there's still content update in 1,5weeks. Plenty of time before the new release format, so plenty of time to get answers. They're not saying "trust us because we said so", they aren't even trying to sell you on anything new yet in the first place -they simply announced the plans for the future. For now you can play the game like you did, in 1,5 weeks you'll get more content "by default" no matter what, then they -and you- can start refocusing on the next expansion. I don't get the urgency here at all.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Doctor Hide.6345]

14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They already said they'll be clarifying some things in the future. Not sure why people are working themselves up as if they need these answers now when there's still content update in 1,5weeks. Plenty of time before the new release format, so plenty of time to get answers.

      The answer to that is because they have burnt a lot of bridges between players , so trust is an issue here. And if you don't want to worry people who don't trust you because of past issues, then you should not be vague in any way possible. Vagueness in company responses leads people like me to worry even more. If you have the answers to the questions you know people have, then you should answer them in the same post. All in one swoop instead of dragging the fear and worry out.

     If you don't have the answers finalized, then don't post it until you do. Having clear and concise answers is more beneficial to building trust again as opposed to what the blog post said. They should have just stated the detail there and now, but now they are dragging the fear out and not building that crucial trust element. Yes, I know that is how most companies operate, and I kitten hate it. I hate vagueness. I would prefer they take the Yoshi-P approach like I said above in another post over this one. People will worry until things are more concrete. It is just the way some people operate.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

      The answer to that is because they have burnt a lot of bridges between players , so trust is an issue here. And if you don't to worry people who don't trust you because of past issues, then you should not be vague in any way possible. Vagueness in company responses leads people like me to worry even more. If you have the answers to the questions you know people have, then you should answer them in the same post. All in one swoop instead of dragging the fear and worry out.

     If you don't have the answers finalized, then don't post it until you do. Having clear and concise answers is more beneficial to building trust again as opposed to what the blog post said. They should have just stated the detail there and now, but now they are dragging the fear out and not building that crucial trust element. Yes, I know that is how most companies operate, and I kitten hate it. I hate vagueness. I would prefer they take the Yoshi-P approach like I said above in another post over this one. People will worry until things are more concrete. It is just the way some people operate.

That's what I'm talking about: what "fear"? More EoD content comes soon, you don't need to pay for anything or even somehow camp ingame for anything, there are some questions and it's worth asking them, but I see no reason for some doomsaying or urgency as if we need answers now! We don't, we're not subscribing to anything, we're not enlisting to pay for the unknown expansion and it's in the company's best interest to inform about the product they want to reasonably sell. If we don't get the information before the release, we can simply not pay for the product, it's that simple. I'd definitely rather have partial information than no information at all, so I can't agree with "have full info ready or don't say anything". Questions are good, but panicing over it when for all we know the next expansion isn't really that close? Seems completely pointless.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Doctor Hide.6345]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's what I'm talking about: what "fear"? More EoD content comes soon, you don't need to pay for anything or even somehow camp ingame for anything, there are some questions and it's wroth to ask them, but I see no reason for some doomsaying or urgency as if we need answers now! We don't, we're not subscribing to anything, we're not enlisting to pay for the unknown expansion and it's in the company's best interest to inform about the product they want to reasonably sell. If we don't get the information before the release, we can simply not pay for the product, it's that simple. I'd definitely rather have partial information than no information at all, so I can't agree with "have full info ready or don't say anything". Questions are good, but panicing over it when for all we know the next expansion isn't really that close? Seems completely pointless.

     That is your take. The fear of the changes coming. It doesn't matter if it is 8 months to a year a way(or whenever it is). The fear is still there. I am glad you don't think that way and are calm about it, but a lot of us don't, and we are not you. We are allowed our take on this. And yes, it is in the companies best interest to inform about the product reasonably. What they have done so far is not well in that regard. 

     You may be fine with partial information. I am not.  So, I would rather worry now and try to get them to be more up front and honest with it instead of waiting and seeing. It may seem pointless to you, but yours is not the only take here. So, as I am sure, many of us will continue to worry and ask stuff/prod because that is how we operate. That is all there is to it.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Of course you can please everyone. You would have to begin by releasing the game with set in stone content that never changes the formula. If ANet for example, never introduced 10man content and explicitly said they never will, there would be no groups to be satisfied among the community they cultivated. 

One of the reason they introduced raids was because there already was a (relatively small, but heavily represented on forums) group of players that was asking for more hardcore content (and spcifically for raid content too) which Anet wanted to please.

4 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Problem is, they wanted to create a niche and draw from other community outside their game in order to grow. 

Yes, that's what pleasing everyone (instead of just one clearly defined target group) means.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, EquinoxPower.4783 said:

Or maybe ANet already figured stuff out, which I hope they did, so why being so vague and secretive...

Either because they haven't figured it out yet, or they've had, but they know we won't like those answers so it's best to keep us uninformed as long as possible. Knowing Anet, it's most likely the latter - they are often very fast to announce any good news, but whenever the news aren't so good, they immediately go into extreme vague mode, and try to spin the info to present the situation in far better light than it deserves.

[Kozumi.5816]

7 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

If they're getting more money, then they should have more money to spend on development, so they're actually more likely to come through on their promises if people actually buy the expansions. 

The other thing you've mentioned where they've made random promises but not gone through was kind of addressed in the post: they mentioned not having the bandwidth to do everything because they weren't focused. 

I would hope they don't do 2 expansions per year, that sounds like too much. Some players already play this game because it's cheaper and sometimes struggle to get the next thing, I would imagine for the masses that fall in that category, once a year is the most they can ask. I could pay twice, and I probably would if they don't poop out another DE meta on me, but it wouldn't go over well in terms of maintaining the population. 

They are not investing that money back into GW2. 

[Izzy.2951]

6 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

They are not investing that money back into GW2. 

Im sorry to tell you @Firebeard.1746 but Kozumi is Right.

The translation of the new plan is: okay we are gonna have a decent but not large team working into Gw2, we are gonna try to make content with the least posible resources while trying to milk as much money as posible for other projects or directly for NCsoft pockets. Forget about major features that would require effort like a new race, raids, spvp or new pvp modes, wvw when "alliances are done", festivals etc... They are just gonna give us the minimum.

And this is pretty sad from a player perspective, specially since 2022 was like their 3rd most profitable year in the past 10 years. That says a lot, they could hard invest into gw2 and the other project (hopefully not being gw3), cos if its gw3 they are gonna find themself in the same position as now, a company with just 1 game that gives them money instead of having and mantaining multiple games like other companies do. And yes, gw2 will die as soon as gw3 lands like gw1 did, and there will be 0 or close to 0 updates.

PD: And i could even add that the community hard carried Anet in second half of 2021 and 2022 with EoD spectations. And it felt like a rushed expansion that they didnt invest that much money at all.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Poormany.4507]

12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Either because they haven't figured it out yet, or they've had, but they know we won't like those answers so it's best to keep us uninformed as long as possible. Knowing Anet, it's most likely the latter - they are often very fast to announce any good news, but whenever the news aren't so good, they immediately go into extreme vague mode, and try to spin the info to present the situation in far better light than it deserves.

tbh, knowing Anet's announcements, I have the same bad feeling. My guess: $25 mini-expacs ~once or twice a year (1 mini-expac for 2 or 3 quarters, followed by a free quarterly update or two), no more elite specs (at least for the next few years, if ever) because of balance difficulties, and it will pretty much be 2-3 LW episodes repackaged as an expac, with (hopefully) slightly better quality (~LWS4ish) because they merge the LW and expac teams. If they went ahead and said this now, it would just hurt EoD sales because players would be (justifiably) upset that they'd be paying for less content that was previously expected to be free as long as you logged in for 10 seconds on one day (basically free).

Expecting a PR-like post downplaying/justifying their decisions in the middle-end of the quarterly updates.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Im sorry to tell you @Firebeard.1746 but Kozumi is Right.

The translation of the new plan is: okay we are gonna have a decent but not large team working into Gw2, we are gonna try to make content with the least posible resources while trying to milk as much money as posible for other projects or directly for NCsoft pockets. Forget about major features that would require effort like a new race, raids, spvp or new pvp modes, wvw when "alliances are done", festivals etc... They are just gonna give us the minimum.

And this is pretty sad from a player perspective, specially since 2022 was like their 3rd most profitable year in the past 10 years. That says a lot, they could hard invest into gw2 and the other project (hopefully not being gw3), cos if its gw3 they are gonna find themself in the same position as now, a company with just 1 game that gives them money instead of having and mantaining multiple games like other companies do. And yes, gw2 will die as soon as gw3 lands like gw1 did, and there will be 0 or close to 0 updates.

PD: And i could even add that the community hard carried Anet in second half of 2021 and 2022 with EoD spectations. And it felt like a rushed expansion that they didnt invest that much money at all.

It is and it isn't right. Sure, not all of the money will go back into the game but the devs that will be working on GW2 are still paid with that money. There isn't some magical income that Anet has to pay them without the income of the game.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Things change that is why. I am currently dealing with a real life wife situation here, so yes, my scope is bigger than you and you attempts to win me over at the moment. I am in no mood for your games.

Sorry, but as much as I wish you all best in your personal life (I'm not being sarcastic), this has nothing to do with this discussion. Again, by no means feel somehow pressed to keep responding to me if you have more important things to do, not sure what else you want me to say here -that said I still don't appreciate attempts to tell me I'm somehow attacking or harassing you when we're simply responding to each others' posts and that's about it.

[Izzy.2951]

8 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It is and it isn't right. Sure, not all of the money will go back into the game but the devs that will be working on GW2 are still paid with that money. There isn't some magical income that Anet has to pay them without the income of the game.

 

 

And what does this justify? ofc anet devs are paid with that money, but the money gw2 is generating is barely gonna go back into the game, we have seen it, we are seeing it, and we will see it. That is not focusing on gw2 at all, that is what they have been saying for a long time.

So your justifying that we get low effort/resources updates to "keep us entretained" until their future project comes out, this makes me just dont wanna spend more money into the game. And also stop using the steam trick launcher to help the numbers of the game on steam.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Wow. There's definitely a few glass half empty people in this forum. The negative extrapolation without evidence is strong in these ones! 🙂

[Gehenna.3625]

12 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

And what does this justify? ofc anet devs are paid with that money, but the money gw2 is generating is barely gonna go back into the game, we have seen it, we are seeing it, and we will see it. That is not focusing on gw2 at all, that is what they have been saying for a long time.

So your justifying that we get low effort/resources updates to "keep us entretained" until their future project comes out, this makes me just dont wanna spend more money into the game. And also stop using the steam trick launcher to help the numbers of the game on steam.

I don't know if it's barely. I've played SWTOR for years and we get a lot more new content here in GW2. And yeah, Anet like many other companies use a form of rethoric that is called marketing or more plainly bs'ing people. You really shouldn't believe everything a company says. And sure, I also think that most of the profits from GW2 will go into this new project. But that's normal business practice, what can I say?

What I do understand, however, is that it's essential for Anet's continued existence to develop another game and/or ip. They can't live on just GW. GW2 is doing relatively well at the moment by the way. The revenue from last year is the highest it's been since 2015. In fact, outside the mobile division, it's the only game for NcSoft that's seen an upward trend over the last 3 years. Just check their financial reports. But when I see all the complaints about content since EoD released and I compare that to the revenue being a lot better, then clearly there is a disconnect in thinking that a lot more content is the only way to bring up revenue for them.

They came with a new plan, I happen to think that this plan is sustainable and is probably the best thing they could come up with. But there are two caveats: they do need to stick to the plan and the new content has to be up to par or better. And the jury's still out on that of course.

And I'm not justifying low effort content but I am being realistic about what to expect from a 10-year old MMO that's never had the success of WoW or FF XIV.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Gehenna.3625