Narrative concerns regarding the new direction

[EquinoxPower.4783]

Hello everyone,

After reading the blog post posted on Monday I got concerned about the narrative direction the game might be going, I might just have misinterpreted but it seems every expansion will have a standalone arc.

Won't this bring a dull and predictable narrative for each mini xpac or you think there might be a narrative connection between mini xpacs?

 

Happy to discuss away!

Note: When I say narrative connection I mean actual continuation of it, not mentioned about it here and there. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

ESO recently moved away from 1 yearly stories as they ended up being stunted and shallow, hoping Anet learns from this and has longer stories spanning across expansions.

[Hotride.2187]

The narrative is already dull and predictable though?

[Danikat.8537]

I suspect it will be similar to what they've done so far where in one sense there's multiple different storylines (Personal Story is one, season 1, 2 and HoT is another, Season 3, PoF and Season 4 is another and so on), but there's also an overarching narrative that goes through all of them with many of the same characters coming back and references to previous things. That's why people worried about, for example, spoilers when they skipped ahead to unlock mounts.

I assume they'll do something similar with future releases as well.

Also just because a story is shorter doesn't mean it has to be dull and predictable.

[Randulf.7614]

Given how bad the Dragon arc ended up versus the potential it had at the start, it’s clear a long arc isn’t the right way forward. Between constantly changing visions between refreshed teams and dropped plot lines, it might be that we will get tighter plotting with short arcs. This is why GW1 stories are more fondly remembered.

GW2 would have been better with campaign stories, against the backdrop of the dragons. By the time we got to the mess of Primordus and Jormag, plus the unnecessary and constant intervention of Aurene, the story had finally gone off the rails and had to be wrapped up quickly with a rather bizarre water dragon and void plot.

So in theory, short campaigns over 1-2 years might actually be the best thing they came up with for the story.

[EquinoxPower.4783]

24 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

So in theory, short campaigns over 1-2 years might actually be the best thing they came up with for the story.

 

I believe 2 years (which means 2 mini expacs) seems to be perfect length for a good story arc. For now the ball is on the narrative team

Edited February 16, 2023 by EquinoxPower.4783

[EquinoxPower.4783]

49 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Also just because a story is shorter doesn't mean it has to be dull and predictable.

Thats true... I guess it depends on how many story chapters the mini expacs will have.

Edited February 16, 2023 by EquinoxPower.4783

[Infinity.2876]

my guess is short instance segments that wrap up story fragments. Similar to dragon response missions but with epilogue style. 

[Faridah.8431]

45 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Given how bad the Dragon arc ended up versus the potential it had at the start, it’s clear a long arc isn’t the right way forward. Between constantly changing visions between refreshed teams and dropped plot lines, it might be that we will get tighter plotting with short arcs. This is why GW1 stories are more fondly remembered.

GW2 would have been better with campaign stories, against the backdrop of the dragons. By the time we got to the mess of Primordus and Jormag, plus the unnecessary and constant intervention of Aurene, the story had finally gone off the rails and had to be wrapped up quickly with a rather bizarre water dragon and void plot.

So in theory, short campaigns over 1-2 years might actually be the best thing they came up with for the story.

Yeah, if executed right, there's nothing wrong with 1-2 years story arcs. 

To your point about GW1 stories being fondly remembered, recall that each campaign was the equivalent of a whole new continent, campaign, new playable classes, etc. on a fairly quick development and release cadence. Contrast that with expansions having 4-5 maps in GW2 and often what feels like a story that starts rushing towards its conclusion at the end. 

Its two different worlds. Whole new standalone campaigns every 6 months or so was unsustainable for GW1 and one of the reasons they made GW2, and what they've been doing with Living World and expansions hasn't been sustainable really either. So I just hope they figure out something that works. GW2 has largely felt like a decade long experiment with a lot of good and bad. Willing to see what this new cycle brings to the table.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Faridah.8431

[DexterousGecko.6328]

In theory I like longer story arcs, but the reality is for GW2, they don't seem to be able to write a compelling story, so shorter arcs might be the way to go.

[EquinoxPower.4783]

3 hours ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

In theory I like longer story arcs, but the reality is for GW2, they don't seem to be able to write a compelling story, so shorter arcs might be the way to go.

Totally agree with you, for example the White Mantle Arc on LSW3 imo was well, not great, done but I hoped it went a little bit longer. I just hope the arcs are not too short, I hope ANet finds the correct amount!

Edited February 17, 2023 by EquinoxPower.4783

[Ultramex.1506]

We'll see how it is when they are released but hope they will more creative with swearings, they felt forced from Rylock "Cluster****" to Asura saying God **** (do Asura even believe in god?)

They want the game to be more mature and serious, this isn't it to me

[Mistwraithe.3106]

It is a good question. I certainly hope there will be longer running narrative arcs outside of the annual expansions (assuming they end up annual).

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:47 PM, EquinoxPower.4783 said:

After reading the blog post posted on Monday I got concerned about the narrative direction the game might be going, I might just have misinterpreted but it seems every expansion will have a standalone arc.

Likely. And that's the one good thing about it!

Now we can finally have a broad variety of exciting stories from all walks of Tyrian life instead of being stuck with one boring arc that drags on for a full decade.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

     I am kind of not looking forward to the story if they are just standalones each time. ESO tried that approach and it failed miserably. In fact, they stated they are moving away from that model because the players hated it. Each story was too predictable because it didn't transfer to the next arc. And from what we have seen with some of the latest stuff Anet put out, I don't think stand alone stories would be any better quality. In fact, it might be worse because there would be no connection between the stories.

     Now if they stuck to maybe 2 mini expansion story arcs, it could work better for the connection and not make it feel as rushed. But with their wording, I don't have much faith this new story approach will be any better.

[cyberzombie.7348]

     I think the core issue is plainly action fatigue, which is hard to overcome after plateauing from PoF. As it involved going mano-e-mano against a god of war. I dare say what's missing is more grounded plots to help reset the momentum. No world-ending plots, god-like deities, or going toe-to-toe against some massive army/organization. Just something on-par with the personal stories yet consistent with the timeline. 

It also doesn't help that unlike GW1 they have to write around the whole timeline, unlike the former which has different MCs for each plot.

Edited February 19, 2023 by cyberzombie.7348

[EquinoxPower.4783]

45 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Likely. And that's the one good thing about it!

Now we can finally have a broad variety of exciting stories from all walks of Tyrian life instead of being stuck with one boring arc that drags on for a full decade.

What I meant by my post is that its going to be small and won't have enough time to be fleshed out, I don't think a mini-expac will have enough material and time to build and flesh out an interesting arc, but I guess that depends mostly on the number of story chapters each mini-expac will bring.

I agree with you, the 10 year elder dragon arc was not the greatest!

[EquinoxPower.4783]

43 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     I am kind of not looking forward to the story if they are just standalones each time. ESO tried that approach and it failed miserably. In fact, they stated they are moving away from that model because the players hated it. Each story was too predictable because it didn't transfer to the next arc. And from what we have seen with some of the latest stuff Anet put out, I don't think stand alone stories would be any better quality. In fact, it might be worse because there would be no connection between the stories.

     Now if they stuck to maybe 2 mini expansion story arcs, it could work better for the connection and not make it feel as rushed. But with their wording, I don't have much faith this new story approach will be any better.

Agreed. I think there needs to be a narrative connection between 2 mini expacs for them to be able to create a fleshed out and interesting arc and characters.

Maybe one mini expac will have an increased number of story chapters which I think then it could work out.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

10 minutes ago, EquinoxPower.4783 said:

Agreed. I think there needs to be a narrative connection between 2 mini expacs for them to be able to create a fleshed out and interesting arc and characters.

Maybe one mini expac will have an increased number of story chapters which I think then it could work out.

 

     Now, I will say this though about the main 10 year story arc. I think it can work if the writers were good enough. Just look at FF14 and how well that 10 year Story arc went. They basically planned 10 years in advance with most of the details already set. I don't think GW2 thought that far ahead with the Dragon Cycle when they started it which makes sense why they might be switching to stand alone now. The problem is more or less the writers are still the same, so they really have to step up their ball game if they want to wow people with this new approach. 

     I want to proven wrong here with my cynicism, but I am not holding my breath. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Cobra.6509]

On 2/16/2023 at 11:30 PM, Hotride.2187 said:

The narrative is already dull and predictable though?

Indeed. If someone comes with an interesting story better for him is to write a novel and make better money not to write for MMORPGs .

Edited February 19, 2023 by Cobra.6509

[Mistwraithe.3106]

5 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

     Now, I will say this though about the main 10 year story arc. I think it can work if the writers were good enough. Just look at FF14 and how well that 10 year Story arc went. They basically planned 10 years in advance with most of the details already set.

I think this is a very good point and is probably the core concern here. Short stories are fine but it improves it hugely if they are part of an overarching story. Just look at what Marvel did with the Cinematic Universe, it was comprised primarily of 2 hour movies which had to contain complete stories within them BUT they clearly had an overall plan which culminated in Infinity War and End Game. The end result was amazing.

Compare with Star Wars 7, 8, 9, ignoring the arguments over the tone of each movie, it's very clear there wasn't an overall plan (or if there was it got ripped apart and rewritten before each movie) and the end result was very poor.

I'm early in the GW2 story so can't comment personally but from what I've read it seems like there probably wasn't a strong overall plan for the 10 year Dragon background story, or at least not one which lasted the distance. I'm enjoying the GW2 story anyway and plenty of others seem to quite enjoy it too, but imagine if they manage to come up with a really good overarching story for the next 5 years and stick to it?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Poormany.4507]

Agree with OP. I'm also hoping that the mini expacs are tied to an overarching story and flow well together. What I'm worried about is that they'll just do a bunch of rushed smaller scale unresolved random plots to check off items on a list with stories being shoehorned in for no reason (We need an underwater mini-expac, we need a Malyck mini-expac, we need an E mini-expac, we need a Gods mini-expac etc.). See LWS3 for an example of how NOT to do it (random Caudecus, Shining Blade, Livia, and Lazarus storylines that were shoehorned in, too rushed, and went nowhere) On the other hand, the later mini-Joko -> Kralkattorrik storylines in LWS4 were very well done in this respect imo, so I'm cautiously optimistic that they learned the lesson and will go a more LWS4-style route.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[vicky.9751]

i dont think they ever listen to players feedback on the story anyways

Edited March 24, 2023 by vicky.9751