Opinions on EoD?

[Keymaster.7362]

34 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

As to #1: It was the abysmal implementation of the cyberpunk (one of my favorite genres) aesthetic that contributed to my dislike for EoD.  If they were going for cyberpunk they dropped the ball horribly.

Yeah, it is your right to have this opinion. And i am sure, there are many other people who thing the same.

But aesthetic likes or dislikes are always subjective and in no way meaningfull to say if other people could like this content or not.

What is about all the other points i did mention?

Edited April 21, 2023 by Keymaster.7362

[Dev.1984]

I used to spend 20 to 30 dollars every month just to support the game i like, But after EOD release i cant justify this any more , so i stopped and i haven't get more gems or anything else from the store.  This XP is bad and unaspirated and i don't see a bright future for GW2.

[Batalix.2873]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:23 PM, Keymaster.7362 said:

I personally believe there are two main reasons why EoD has been reviewed so mixed.

1st. The people expected a Guild Wars 1 Factions 2.0, but ArenaNet decited to change Cantha totally in the 260 years difference. You have to be okay with the cyberpunk aesthetic.

2nd. The people are spoiled  from HoT and PoF. Gliding did totally change the playstyle and our mount system is the best in the world of mmos. But you can set the bar only that high and ArenaNet simply can't outperform themself in every new Addon with innovation.

All i can say, I personaly really enjoied EoD, up to this date. Even if it is not perfect (but neither are HoT or PoF).

The story was great.

Saitung is a fantastic first map. New Kaineng is for me the prettiest of the maps, but the events are repetitive and boring. Echowald was aestheticly the most lackluster, but has by far the best events and interesting activities. Dragons End is mainly a meta map. In the past it got a lot of hate because of its difficulty. But nowadays the people know the mechanics, and as long as you join a sqad it's a no-brainer. But not everyone has the time to spend 2 hours on a single meta. Dragons stand from HoT has the same problem.

Generally every Meta in EoD is still activly done (in differnce to PoF)

EoD has by far the most after credits activities, thanks to lovely side quests in arborstone with Snargle Goldclaw, Majoris sisters, Ramas ancestors, Canachs club and so much more. But none of them has nearly as much impect as the griffon in PoF.

 

HoT had three maps plus a meta map. The problem though is that all three maps have very vibrant metas whereas NKC and Echovald, although they have moments, kind of fall flat.

 

And the meta map is kind of ridiculous in how much pregaming it requires. Dragon's Stand doesn't require the player to be prepping an hour before the actual event, there is a solid hour and a half wherein players can do other metas. Dragon's End is so parasitic because it demands the players ready the areas and prepare map stacks prior to the boss if players want a decent chance of clearing Soo Won.

 

The prepping for Contributor buffs is boring and dumb design. Players shouldn't need to get instanced stacks of a buff just to participate in a meta; that is antithetical to the idea that players should be able to just stumble into events and participate. Furthermore, it's not like players *wouldn't* still participate in the pre-events, since everyone playing EoD wants favor, karma, and experience. The incentive system is just wrong, and adding one chest per stack at the end does not feel like fair compensation for the players' time when they could have done three metas in that same period.

 

They should just remove the Contributor stacks altogether honestly. I'm all for actual challenging open world content, but if a condition of that is that I don't want to do a meta because I need to be on the map for a solid hour plus (which is itself not actually challenging, just time wasting) and there's never any meaningful variety or randomization in the content...I would prefer it be nerfed.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Randulf.7614]

What are the contributor stacks? I’ve on,y ever joined Soo Wan just as escorts began so I’ve missed any prep phases 

[Linken.6345]

23 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

What are the contributor stacks? I’ve on,y ever joined Soo Wan just as escorts began so I’ve missed any prep phases 

You do 5-7 events (depending on how quick you are to move before escort lanes) before escort so you cap at 10.

Get alittle damage buff and can loot the 10 medium chests after the meta

[Gehenna.3625]

I was initially excited for EoD because of the Factions expansion that exists in the OG GW which took me to Cantha for the first time.

But as it stands, I just don't find myself spending much time in EoD at all. In fact after 1-2 months after release I stopped going there. Now, to be fair, I don't spend a lot of time in PoF anymore either but it took much longer to get to that point. And I still keep coming to HoT.

For context, I do a lot of WvW but when I spend time in OW PvE zones, I mostly go to HoT because of the atmosphere but also because there's a point in going there. I can actually do something with the currencies. So let me break down the reasons I don't spend a lot of time in EoD:

Zones/maps

The zones or maps of Cantha are a bit hit and miss. I do like the zones of Seitung Province and the Echovald Wilds visually but the Kaineng City and Dragon's End have issues. Too many too mention here but I'm sure I don't need to repeat them. They both look empty though. I do specifically say visually on the maps I do like because there are things I don't like, such as the mob density of the Echovald Wilds map and the general theme of the population there. Gang wars was just not something I was expecting or rather hoping for that map. Having said that I did enjoy map completion on multiple characters, so there's that.

Legendaries

Or rather gen3 legendaries. I'm not going to say that the skins suck or are too hard to get (especially the variant skins); they are quite nice in fact but they just don't fit my aesthetic. It's all about dragons and that's just not something I care for much. And EoD is pretty much built around those legendaries. So if you don't care for them, a lot of the appeal for going to EoD is taken away.

Fishing

This is a personal thing again, but I really just don't care about fishing. For something that I expected to be relaxing, they turned it into a mini-game that's anything but relaxing. Add to that the time windows that need to be respected and the bait/lure/food thing that you need to maximize your fishing power...well, the point is that it's not relaxing at all imo.

Metas

I'm not a gold farmer. So even if the metas are the best gps (gold per second as I call it), that's not enough to motivate me to spend time doing these metas. They're not bad...but they are actually not that great. They're ok-ish and, well, the last meta with Soo-Won is just for a specific target audience, which is fine, but it also means I hardly spend any time in that map (just to get some of the jadeite shards on occasion).

Currencies

There aren't a lot of currencies in EoD and the ones we do are either hated or cannot be used for much. The hated one being research notes. Now some people may argue that it's great not to have many currencies, but I feel that you can simplify things to the point where it becomes boring and it takes the long-term appeal away. Currencies are part of the reason I keep coming back to HoT.

Masteries

Yeah, the masteries. I did get all of them, but the only thing I really care about is the jade bot masteries and it's not even a particularly good mastery line. I won't get into detail but the masteries of EoD are the weakest ones. It really feels like they ran out of ideas.

Mounts

So this means the Skiff and the Turtle. I hardly ever use either one. I do like to use my skiff from time to time because I have the skin that looks like you're sitting on your personal ice shard but that has more to do with the skin than the actual mount. The newest (half-)map Gyala Delves is the only place I would use the turtle, except I don't really go to that zone.

Jaded

This is a complaint against EVERYTHING being jade green colored. Aside, for it all to be mono-colored, it's also something that, for the OG GW players, means that everything has become Luxon and the Kurzick influence has all but been lost. I sincerely hope they're going to do something with that still. Also I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention the mechanist's oversized, jade green mech. I honestly parked my mechanist as a gatherer until something changes with that mech. It even gets in my own way like this. 

Story and Strikes

I did enjoy the story. But it has no replay value for me, though GW2 story lines never had replay value for me. Ok the return chapters had replay value but that was all about the rewards. Now I combined this topic with strikes because they reused assets of the story for the strikes. I did all 4 of them successfully, didn't really care for the rewards and it was just repeating fights of the story bosses anyways. So meh.

 

Conclusion

There's a lot of negatives in here but because of the way it's been implemented it just feels like all of it could've been done better and/or with more variation. It also feels like they planned more stuff but it didn't make it in, so it also feels more empty. All in all, so far, EoD is just not for me.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[Linebreaker.7904]

On the whole I didn't like it. Compared to the previous two it feels like a letdown.  It might be because I wasn't bothered by any of the selling points, which may have skewed my view about it somewhat.

 

- Not interested in fishing and even if I was the actual mini game is not condusive to a peaceful time fishing.

- Skiff is pointless because I don't fish.

- The Turtle doesn't seem to do much compared to the other mounts.

- Strikes don't appeal to me. They just seem like a lazy filler for actual dungeons/fractals/content etc.

- The story is mediocre at best.

- The maps range from decent to dreadful. Kaineng City is easily the worst map in the game. Empty, difficult to navigate and very, very, very dull. Seitung Province is a pretty map, but it's nothing special otherwise. Echovald is ok but again it doesn't do anything for me. Dragon's End is green.

 

The only thing that appealed to me were the Elite Specs and even they turned out to be a mixed bag. Vindicator and Virtuoso I like. Harbinger, Bladesworn and Mechanist with it's gigantic cockroach can all breed and travel. Especially Mechanist. The others are not interesting.

 

I only ever go to EoD maps to do the occasional daily for currency and then forget it exists.

 

 

 

[loregnum.3619]

I bought EoD earlier this month and here's what I like and dislike.

 

like:

 

-mechanist spec

-fishing

-skiffs

-jade bot, though I don't like how things aren't account shared

-the general art design of the maps, especially Seitung Province

-Soo-won

-ways to earn gold

-Thousand Seas Pavilion

-the EoD guild hall

-the final story fight

 

dislike:

 

-a lot of the dialogue that sounded like it was from some modern day zoomers

-the fact not a single voice actor/actress pronounces aetherblade correctly

-Anet employees pushing more of their political and social ideology into their video game. I'm tired of this from the gaming industry as that stuff should be left for Twitter since it is divisive and not "inclusive" like they pretend it to be

-getting around Echovald Wilds and New Kaineng City, even with a skyscale and griffon

-many of the missions, especially compounded with all the excessive jabbering you have to listen to

-most of the waypoints in Dragon's End being constantly contested. I don't like the contested waypoints design in general

-New Kaineng feeling so empty

-pretty much all of the meta events, though Dragon's End is fun if you have a good group

-the game's lousy camera issues are even more annoying in many of these maps

-the repetitive nature of events in New Kaineng

-the fact I now have to do a strike mission to unlock my turtle mount

-research notes

-the fact tier 3 for the jade bot services/chips is tied to rng or far too excessive a cost from the vendor

-look of gen 3 legendaries

-even more currencies added to an already currency bloated game

-Gyala Delves, if we are including it with the expansion

-the fact a big part of the mechanist spec dps is lost while under water

 

Overall, I don't regret buying it and the like trumps the dislike for me but I am more unlikely to buy any future expansions if the dialogue doesn't improve and they won't take their political and social ideological views out of their video game, which should be a form of entertainment/escapism. I should never be able to tell the real life ideology of people when playing their game or watching their movie/tv show. Also unlikely to buy if future expansions don't drastically cut back on all the unskippable jibber jabber because it is such a time filler and is made worse when the dialogue is cringe worthy as well as when all the characters incorrectly pronounce a constantly used word. Seriously...aetherblade is not pronounced that way. The difference between the core game and this expansion in terms of these points is drastic.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, loregnum.3619 said:

but I am more unlikely to buy any future expansions if the dialogue doesn't improve and they won't take their political and social ideological views out of their video game, which should be a form of entertainment/escapism. I should never be able to tell the real life ideology of people when playing their game or watching their movie/tv show.

Uhm...

Tyria is a breathing, living world. Naturally, politics and social aspects are prominent. Besides, there being aspects of our modern world present in the game is not what makes the writing bad or any of the characters meaningless. What does do that is (a) when the writing is so full of stereotypes and clichés that it becomes comical, and (b) when there is not enough screen time nor depth to a character, which are a requirement for the player to get a chance to actually know and care about any character. We've had too many new faces thrown at us with too little depth to them -- sometimes, less is more.

And most importantly, as I guess you seem to be having an issue with Yao (?): gender-identity is neither political nor ideological. It's human.
 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Randulf.7614]

I will add, that I have really enjoyed my open world Catalyst. I'm not really sure it's filling any real deisgn niche, but it is fun nonethless

[Batalix.2873]

7 hours ago, loregnum.3619 said:

I bought EoD earlier this month and here's what I like and dislike.

 

like:

 

-mechanist spec

-fishing

-skiffs

-jade bot, though I don't like how things aren't account shared

-the general art design of the maps, especially Seitung Province

-Soo-won

-ways to earn gold

-Thousand Seas Pavilion

-the EoD guild hall

-the final story fight

 

dislike:

 

-a lot of the dialogue that sounded like it was from some modern day zoomers

-the fact not a single voice actor/actress pronounces aetherblade correctly

-Anet employees pushing more of their political and social ideology into their video game. I'm tired of this from the gaming industry as that stuff should be left for Twitter since it is divisive and not "inclusive" like they pretend it to be

-getting around Echovald Wilds and New Kaineng City, even with a skyscale and griffon

-many of the missions, especially compounded with all the excessive jabbering you have to listen to

-most of the waypoints in Dragon's End being constantly contested. I don't like the contested waypoints design in general

-New Kaineng feeling so empty

-pretty much all of the meta events, though Dragon's End is fun if you have a good group

-the game's lousy camera issues are even more annoying in many of these maps

-the repetitive nature of events in New Kaineng

-the fact I now have to do a strike mission to unlock my turtle mount

-research notes

-the fact tier 3 for the jade bot services/chips is tied to rng or far too excessive a cost from the vendor

-look of gen 3 legendaries

-even more currencies added to an already currency bloated game

-Gyala Delves, if we are including it with the expansion

-the fact a big part of the mechanist spec dps is lost while under water

 

Overall, I don't regret buying it and the like trumps the dislike for me but I am more unlikely to buy any future expansions if the dialogue doesn't improve and they won't take their political and social ideological views out of their video game, which should be a form of entertainment/escapism. I should never be able to tell the real life ideology of people when playing their game or watching their movie/tv show. Also unlikely to buy if future expansions don't drastically cut back on all the unskippable jibber jabber because it is such a time filler and is made worse when the dialogue is cringe worthy as well as when all the characters incorrectly pronounce a constantly used word. Seriously...aetherblade is not pronounced that way. The difference between the core game and this expansion in terms of these points is drastic.

 

People asking for "non-political" media just want media with a conservative political position. It is literally impossible for media not to be political.

 

Furthermore, EoD, like much of western media, is extremely ambivalent and cowardly in taking an actual political position, and if anything feels vaguely anti-liberal in the comfortable presumptions it rests back on.

 

The "corrupt police" theme is capped off with Rama throwing his hands up and accepting corruption will always exist, while implying that Li was just a bad apple. The "jade tech monopoly" criticisms ultimately cave into pro-corporate apologism as Joon is put on a pedestal as the sort of socially conscientious billionaire that doesn't actually exist in reality. The nepotism of the imperial family isn't addressed at all. And overall, leaning so heavily on techno-orientalism is very much rooted in yellow panic conservativism, and demonstrates a fairly shallow and fawning approach to depicting east Asian cultures.

 

And all of this is...fine. Inasmuch as Elona is dragon-bombed in a tribalist levant war and Maguuma is a conquistadorial fever dream. But claims that EoD is too "political" and impliedly more leftist and "woke" is not a tenable position.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Witch of Doom.5739]

Chiming in in case ANet really reads these posts.  Upon release, I hated EoD and played it a little bit and then mostly ignored it for months.  What I didn't like:

1. Slime green everywhere all the time.
2. Research Notes
3. The "dead" atmosphere of New Kaineng City
4. The Dragon's End meta way too hard
5. The Pong-like aspect of fishing
6. Skiffs and Jade Bots contributed to my motion sickness

Recently I've come back to it and now think:

1. Slime green is still overdone.  Real jade comes in more colors
2. Still hate Research Notes
3. Decided to actually craft a Gen 3 Legendary Weapon, and am enjoying that
4. The DE meta usually fails but not always; still think it's too convoluted
5. Fishing has grabbed my interest for the collections and achievements.
6. Got accustomed to the skiffs' motions but not the Jade Bots' -- this is a "me" problem, not a game problem
7. Hate how you have to do a Strike to complete the Siege Turtle collection.  I loathe Strikes, Raids, and PvP.

So... better but still not my favorite expansion pack.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Witch of Doom.5739

[Calen.8945]

3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

People asking for "non-political" media just want media with a conservative political position. It is literally impossible for media not to be political.

You are delusional. It is very simple to not have politics in a game, simply don't do it.

[Batalix.2873]

6 hours ago, Calen.8945 said:

You are delusional. It is very simple to not have politics in a game, simply don't do it.

 

Lol you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Krzysztof.5973]

10 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

People asking for "non-political" media just want media with a conservative political position. It is literally impossible for media not to be political.

 

Furthermore, EoD, like much of western media, is extremely ambivalent and cowardly in taking an actual political position, and if anything feels vaguely anti-liberal in the comfortable presumptions it rests back on.

 

The "corrupt police" theme is capped off with Rama throwing his hands up and accepting corruption will always exist, while implying that Li was just a bad apple. The "jade tech monopoly" criticisms ultimately cave into pro-corporate apologism as Joon is put on a pedestal as the sort of socially conscientious billionaire that doesn't actually exist in reality. The nepotism of the imperial family isn't addressed at all. And overall, leaning so heavily on techno-orientalism is very much rooted in yellow panic conservativism, and demonstrates a fairly shallow and fawning approach to depicting east Asian cultures.

 

And all of this is...fine. Inasmuch as Elona is dragon-bombed in a tribalist levant war and Maguuma is a conquistadorial fever dream. But claims that EoD is too "political" and impliedly more leftist and "woke" is not a tenable position.

I think you misunderstood what he's saying. Some people are just fed up with the type of discourse that is all over twitter. EoD story is undeniably more left-leaning compared to older expansions. Tons of people complained about it, even on the forums. Their criticism is valid.

Politics were in guild wars since the very beginning and working to have literally none in your game would make the world building extremely bland and uninteresting. 

So going for something less "liberal" is what they're asking for. 

[Gehenna.3625]

13 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I will add, that I have really enjoyed my open world Catalyst. I'm not really sure it's filling any real deisgn niche, but it is fun nonethless

The niche Catalyst fills is to be unkillable in WvW unless the opponent(s) have boon corruption/stripping...and since most classes/specs don't have that...well, you get the picture.

[Batalix.2873]

10 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I think you misunderstood what he's saying. Some people are just fed up with the type of discourse that is all over twitter. EoD story is undeniably more left-leaning compared to older expansions. Tons of people complained about it, even on the forums. Their criticism is valid.

Politics were in guild wars since the very beginning and working to have literally none in your game would make the world building extremely bland and uninteresting. 

So going for something less "liberal" is what they're asking for. 

 

I don't entertain rhetoric that treats conservative hierarchies as "non-political", implying that only progressive ideas are political.

 

I reject both of your attempts to reframe the issue. All media says something political, even "apolitical" media is really just designed with the express political position of distracting consumers away from political realities, and/or reinforcing the status quo.

 

Again, as I demonstrated, EoD is not even particularly liberal; it is very solidly neo-liberal, like most Western media. So this backlash against a few token liberal gestures really amounts to an attempt to quash all semblance of liberalism and reinforce strictly conservative norms. It is just as, if not more political, than just accepting the evolution of public discourse and the trickling in of progressive ideas that naturally happens.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[DexterousGecko.6328]

I don't really care if the devs want to add in a specific ideology, or discuss it, but quests like "Beat up the bigot" was a bit forth wall breaking for me, that immediately took me out of the game.

 

Also, inb4 "this thread is old, and we're closing it"

[Krzysztof.5973]

47 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

I don't entertain rhetoric that treats conservative hierarchies as "non-political", implying that only progressive ideas are political.

 

I reject both of your attempts to reframe the issue. All media says something political, even "apolitical" media is really just designed with the express political position of distracting consumers away from political realities, and/or reinforcing the status quo.

 

Again, as I demonstrated, EoD is not even particularly liberal; it is very solidly neo-liberal, like most Western media. So this backlash against a few token liberal gestures really amounts to an attempt to quash all semblance of liberalism and reinforce strictly conservative norms. It is just as, if not more political, than just accepting the evolution of public discourse and the trickling in of progressive ideas that naturally happens.

There is quite a lot between far left and conservative. You rejecting the idea to see other people's issues in a different lens only proves the other guy's point. Nobody is trying to frame conservatism as non-political. You're fighting your own demons here. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

New Kaineng City remains the embodiment of why I don't like EoD.

I'll just mention in passing that I'm merely okay with all the other features already discussed in the thread. It all boils down to "sure, XYZ thing is far from perfect (many of them are outright poorly designed), but I can either ignore them or fall back on much better alternatives."

But NKC... just ugh. Nothing, in my opinion, demonstrates that Anet has lost touch with what I used to cherish most about this game, which was the attention designers paid to capturing the feeling of a map feeling alive. I truly believe that whoever did NKC should study Divinity's Reach and the Gladium Canton in the Black Citadel.

In NKC, you can't really enter any of the off-the-beaten-path buildings. Yes, it's something of a ridiculous trope in RPGs that the player character can often just barge into people's homes, smash containers, and loot objects, but Divinity's Reach put a wonderful twist on that. There's a number of homes in each district that you can just go into - no PoI, no container smashings, no lootings. These places are fully furnished and were obviously designed with thematic care, and they're convincing artifacts of NPCs living their own lives completely independent from whatever nonsense the Commander is up to. The city also has just the right balance of chatter, random unvoiced NPCs that have text box conversations with you, NPC movement, and NPC density to again make it feel like the NPCs all have actual lives outside of being a backdrop for the Commander's adventures. NKC fails quite hard in this regard.

So that's what Divinity's Reach outclasses NKC in... what about Gladium Canton? I was hoping for NKC to have a sector (didn't have to be particularly large) that really lived up to all the "jadepunk" hype that was going on before release. Basically Tyria's version of cyberpunk - a dense clash of technology, claustrophobia, poverty, and residents' ingenious struggle to make it within such a challenging environment. A place where the law doesn't fully reach, and enforcement really just aims to contain the slum's problems rather than actually go in and solve them.

Visually, Gladium Canton really comes close to capturing what I was hoping jadepunk might be. Everything is kind of patched together, there's a good amount of visual diversity. You can catch a glimpse of the sky if you approach the edge of the central pit area, with clotheslines, sheet metal protrusions, and other objects intruding into the view. Speaking of the central pit, there's constantly vapor rising up from it, much like we've seen steam/smoke rising from cyberpunk (and real life!) alleyways in dense cities. It's not really a happy place, but it does have a vibrance and culture to itself.

NKC? Large, empty plazas. Noodle stands everywhere, and you can't even buy any noodles from them. One apartment complex that you can enter for just one short story step. It's just way too sanitized to be considered anything-punk. A complete waste of -punk opportunity, if you ask me. The supposedly hard-times Grub Ward doesn't even look bad; the worst thing going on is the residents complaining about it. 

I admit this is a pretty specific set of non-gameplay nitpicks, but I think it's still objectively important. Good environmental design, in my opinion, is what separates a true MMO from all the other copypasta garbage "MMOs" you'll find at the bottom of the Steam charts. NKC reminds me so much of the "cities" you'll see in such garbageware games.

Edited April 25, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

There is quite a lot between far left and conservative. You rejecting the idea to see other people's issues in a different lens only proves the other guy's point. Nobody is trying to frame conservatism as non-political. You're fighting your own demons here. 

 

The fact that you consider anything in this conversation remotely "far left" demonstrates precisely my point and why my demons are not the problem here. The lens is where a lot of inequity starts and is sustained, and retreating to it really acts more as a shield than directly addressing the actual issues it attempts to cover up.

 

Also, to be expressly clear, what you term "fighting" is me pointing out the inaccuracies and poor foundations of opinions published for public comment. Don't like "fighting"? Put out more sound ideas, and don't feel entitled to deference.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Gibson.4036]

47 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

New Kaineng City remains the embodiment of why I don't like EoD.

I'll just mention in passing that I'm merely okay with all the other features already discussed in the thread. It all boils down to "sure, XYZ thing is far from perfect (many of them are outright poorly designed), but I can either ignore them or fall back on much better alternatives."

But NKC... just ugh. Nothing, in my opinion, demonstrates that Anet has lost touch with what I used to cherish most about this game, which was the attention designers paid to capturing the feeling of a map feeling alive. I truly believe that whoever did NKC should study Divinity's Reach and the Gladium Canton in the Black Citadel.

In NKC, you can't really enter any of the off-the-beaten-path buildings. Yes, it's something of a ridiculous trope in RPGs that the player character can often just barge into people's homes, smash containers, and loot objects, but Divinity's Reach put a wonderful twist on that. There's a number of homes in each district that you can just go into - no PoI, no container smashings, no lootings. These places are fully furnished and were obviously designed with thematic care, and they're convincing artifacts of NPCs living their own lives completely independent from whatever nonsense the Commander is up to. The city also has just the right balance of chatter, random unvoiced NPCs that have text box conversations with you, NPC movement, and NPC density to again make it feel like the NPCs all have actual lives outside of being a backdrop for the Commander's adventures. NKC fails quite hard in this regard.

So that's what Divinity's Reach outclasses NKC in... what about Gladium Canton? I was hoping for NKC to have a sector (didn't have to be particularly large) that really lived up to all the "jadepunk" hype that was going on before release. Basically Tyria's version of cyberpunk - a dense clash of technology, claustrophobia, poverty, and residents' ingenious struggle to make it within such a challenging environment. A place where the law doesn't fully reach, and enforcement really just aims to contain the slum's problems rather than actually go in and solve them.

Visually, Gladium Canton really comes close to capturing what I was hoping jadepunk might be. Everything is kind of patched together, there's a good amount of visual diversity. You can catch a glimpse of the sky if you approach the edge of the central pit area, with clotheslines, sheet metal protrusions, and other objects intruding into the view. Speaking of the central pit, there's constantly vapor rising up from it, much like we've seen steam/smoke rising from cyberpunk (and real life!) alleyways in dense cities. It's not really a happy place, but it does have a vibrance and culture to itself.

NKC? Large, empty plazas. Noodle stands everywhere, and you can't even buy any noodles from them. One apartment complex that you can enter for just one short story step. It's just way too sanitized to be considered anything-punk. A complete waste of -punk opportunity, if you ask me. The supposedly hard-times Grub Ward doesn't even look bad; the worst thing going on is the residents complaining about it. 

I admit this is a pretty specific set of non-gameplay nitpicks, but I think it's still objectively important. Good environmental design, in my opinion, is what separates a true MMO from all the other copypasta garbage "MMOs" you'll find at the bottom of the Steam charts. NKC reminds me so much of the "cities" you'll see in such garbageware games.

This points out a deeper issue that I see going on with the game's current direction. It feels like ArenaNet is trying to streamline everything down. Strikes are easy to make compared to Raids, compared to Fractals. Zones that are primarily about Metas and have little reason to be there otherwise are easier to make than the immersive, inhabited world GW2 became known for.

I was just listening to a youtuber who is starting a character from scratch in several different MMOs to compare them, and he was remarking on all the little bits of immersion that greet a new player in Queensdale. He commented that it feels like a game made by people who love MMOs and love what they are making.

The current team may still love this game, but EoD feels more like a company stretching out the earning potential on prior work. I expect the current individual creators would love to create immersive, story-rich content, but that they are no longer given the resources they were earlier in the games life.

It's not that EoD is terrible. It's that it doesn't have that feel of being an artfully crafted labor of love like GW2 used to.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Krzysztof.5973]

51 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

The fact that you consider anything in this conversation remotely "far left" demonstrates precisely my point and why my demons are not the problem here. The lens is where a lot of inequity starts and is sustained, and retreating to it really acts more as a shield than directly addressing the actual issues it attempts to cover up.

 

Also, to be expressly clear, what you term "fighting" is me pointing out the inaccuracies and poor foundations of opinions published for public comment. Don't like "fighting"? Put out more sound ideas, and don't feel entitled to deference.

This never was about "this conversation". We are in "Options on EoD". And I don't think there is anything far left in this xpack. I should have said far right instead of conservative if that makes you feel any better. You are just being disingenuous. You disagree with EoD being liberal but it's even more left than that. 
Go to youtube and search for "End of Dragons, Start of ArenaNet Politics" by okbuddykormir. 
All of the forum comments from that video have been removed. Quite a lot of people are unhappy with latest expansion. The politics criticism is totally valid. 

[Sweetbread.3678]

14 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

So going for something less "liberal" is what they're asking for. 

So what about End of Dragons was too "liberal" exactly?

[voltaicbore.8012]

2 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

So what about End of Dragons was too "liberal" exactly?

It was just a couple times here and there (could probably count them on one hand) where the game kind of hamfistedly promotes Yao as the token agender character. At the end of the Kaineng meta, Yao even pointlessly identifies themselves as such. It's like... it's like Anet made that character so flimsy that their gender identification constitutes almost the entirety of their pre-Gyala character. Theo Ashford got a husband posthumously, just because. It's not like it was developed (if I'm remembering correctly) for a long time, or part of the fabric of the story. It was just bolted on.

I honestly think both sides of the aisle should be annoyed by these clearly low-effort inserts. Left leaning folks, of all people, should resent tokenization, but it seems in the current environment any mention in one's favored media gets a pass as "representation." I presume folks on the right side of course see flimsy characters fitting some buzzwords as preachy and virtue-signal-y; such people don't often articulate what it is they actually want, and end up either saying nothing at all (a tried and true conservative tradition lol) or just sounding like hatemongers who are just totally implacable at any mention of gender issues.

Disclosure: I'm an Korean-American male, and I'd call myself politically conservative, born in the mid-1980s. I have been tokenized, to my kittening face, my entire youth from "liberals" and "conservatives" alike. From ages 0-17 I was always one of the 2-3 (if not the ONLY) Asian at school/church/wherever. Liberals at that time loved to call anything/anyone vaguely Asian "exotic," and my fellow conservatives often still used the term "Oriental." For most of that period, I just got used to the "where are you REALLY from" question, well-meaning adults speaking English veeeery slowly until I assured them my English was fine, and fielding the "so if you're not Chinese or Japanese, what are you?" I really think I missed the opportunity to say "Martian" back in those days lol.

Therefore I feel at least minimally capable of identifying low-effort "lets do some virtue signaling" levels of "representation," and I feel it's fair to say that at least pre-Gyala Yao and Ashford's identity reveal qualify. Though both were extremely short in duration, they were nonetheless memorable, and that's what people are probably unhappy about. 

Counterpoint: there is an example of higher-effort, and (at least to me) more authentic-feeling gender identity in Lion's Arch. I always hear it around the fractal gate area, but there is apparently an NPC who survived the destruction of Old Lion's Arch who got a gender change. These two NPCs have an entire voiced conversation about it, and it isn't just to promote "hey so I was a dude, now I'm a lady," but rather seemed to make a comment about resilience and change in the face of adversity. Again, not a huge thing, but memorable - and in my opinion, done right. 

Also I think Kas and Jory represent another instance the more right-leaning/conservative players don't really have complaints about. It's just been a thing for so long, and there's a lot more to those characters that have nothing to do with their orientation. They're a pair, it's just how it is, and the game never really preaches about it. Even the whole marriage thing at the Dead End was just a celebration of their relationship and characters, not so much their identities. At least that's how I saw it, and it didn't really bother me.

Not sure current Anet really does anything with that level of care anymore.

Edited April 26, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012