15v50

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Some things don't change, new player or not lol. 

I got no issue solo roaming in EB and everywhere else, I have been for years already.

The funny parts are "God of PvP", "Diamond Legend", edgy looking "Gold Knights", will always have a ganksquad to feed their egos of their skill.

People like that have a serious "I can't lose no matter what" complex.

They will finish people in duels, gank others no matter what, chase hard after you if you pose a threat and when you catch them off-guard and kill them, be ready to get BMed next time you go down. God forbif you are hard to kill cause you kite and manage terrain and cooldowns, you'll get a fully sieged corpse xD

Best thing to do is not engage, or if you do, make your own team and target them HARD. Pugs are unreliably and rally-bots, don't ever fight gank squads near pugs, you'll be picked off by them and Pugs will need to process for 2 minutes what to do (rezz, cc on you, drop heals etc). 

And that comes from me palying some dumb power zerker builds (not gunflame).

If you play: power willbender you will be fine, power mesmer too as long as you stay far, power soulbeast is amazing with pet swap and power rev has fell off, but Vindi still exists. Herald is doable, but you will not survive the cover condis/condi spam.

Mobility and not sustain, gets you wins and survival in WvW.

[Gehenna.3625]

5 hours ago, KeyOrion.9506 said:

 

Sorry to say, but even great big groups need to keep their "participation" up.  And the only way to do that, is to smite, especially if they've taken the map, and can't move to another map.  So 50 guys will literally smite 1 guy just to keep participation up.  Believe me.  I've seen it.  I seen entire zergs run down roamer groups of 5, for five to fifteen minutes, and afterwards just spawn camp that small group.  It's just gonna happen, no matter what.

You're right and it's just another downside about having to keep your participation up.

[ArchonWing.9480]

7 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

The funny parts are "God of PvP", "Diamond Legend", edgy looking "Gold Knights", will always have a ganksquad to feed their egos of their skill.

People like that have a serious "I can't lose no matter what" complex.

They will finish people in duels, gank others no matter what, chase hard after you if you pose a threat and when you catch them off-guard and kill them, be ready to get BMed next time you go down. God forbif you are hard to kill cause you kite and manage terrain and cooldowns, you'll get a fully sieged corpse xD

Best thing to do is not engage, or if you do, make your own team and target them HARD. Pugs are unreliably and rally-bots, don't ever fight gank squads near pugs, you'll be picked off by them and Pugs will need to process for 2 minutes what to do (rezz, cc on you, drop heals etc). 

lol that's true with bigger groups too, they will chase 1/3- 1/5 their numbers and bm. Then they wonder why nobody wants to fight them and sieges up instead. Then they whisper you and tell them they're only 20 (the other guilds and pugs following them are obviously not counted). It's honestly amazing how delusional some WvWers can be with their groupthink.

We have a pretty infamous group around these parts that does that, and nobody likes their kitten. They like to jam into the other 2 servers already fighting and both servers will frequently turn on them to drive them out lol.

Though unfortunately, people just do that. I hate it when my server mates do that because it kills all the content.

Oh yea, what's the point in finishing in duels anyways? Not sure how most people see it but if I see anyone starting a finisher, it's no longer a duel.

Edited March 8, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Xenesis.6389]

13 hours ago, coopoor.2631 said:

i have played WvsW pretty much daily  for the past few months. I noticed a few things right off the bat. !st off is the Queue System  i  see  the map has a 20 person waiting list an when you finally  get on map you have 15 to 20  players on you color an  your fighting 50 to 60 i pretty sure the game has a max for map  but not a way to evenly divide up the players to make fights interesting Am i the only one who sees this?

There are different ways to view that situation and not a straight up map q vs map q.

Let's say you're on home map. Your home side could be running multiple groups/guilds, tagged or untagged, which don't always run together for every single fight, there's multiple defense or attack events happening that could be split up for. If your enemies are attacking bay and you have one guild there, then maybe the other one is over at hills trying to recap it or defend it too.

On your home map there's a good chance you would be outnumbered by the simple fact that two enemy forces could be on there and can hold the same amount of players, so you have a chance, especially on reset, to be facing twice your numbers, while having to defend multiple fronts as oppose to the enemies who more than likely are looking to double team you.

It's not up to the enemy to break up into smaller groups, most times they would run as a solid blob because they have less objectives to defend so they don't need to spread out, or need as much as possible for bigger objectives or bigger numbers if your side brings it's own map q, or the 3rd side brings one, or they're not tiering up objectives so less concern about defending unless your side shows up in numbers against them at that objective.

 

Again, It's not up to the enemy to break up for your convenience, it's up to your side to band together your forces to face them with better numbers. And with the way the game is setup with meta groups and boon balling support, bringing more numbers is always better to try and keep an advantage in any given situation.

[zengara.8301]

Dont disrespect us like that 😞 Magumma<any 50 man blob. Literally any, if you got blob with 50 ppl, you win.

 

I don't know, the exact updates for the builds, but they have been rather weird, it is almost like Gw2 encourages this kind of gameplay, rather than fighting group wise. Like a year or 2 back, a good guild could easily kill a blob, now it is impossible, longer dps  cd and less heals/boons + overall less skill/cordination (because even if you get the best players to press the exact skills necessary, you still can not "survive" a bomb, unless if it is an extremely bad bomb. And you can not dmg as highly as before, counter a blob with skill, because your CD is now longer, in other words, less survival and less dmg. Which is only good for guilds that are not that good, but just big).

 

Untop of that, they make it impossible to "avoid" (boons/skills etc) a bomb, so a blob can run you over harder now than before, before if you played extremely well, and every party member pressed their skills/dodges. In other words, you were in a very good guild, you could easily get out of blob bomb meanwhile 20 people take down 80 people. Now it is impossible, unless if the 80 people is literally not pressing their skills. I just think the updates have been ultimately rather bad for WvW. Maybe this is better for massive guilds though. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by zengara.8301

[MarzAttakz.9608]

4 hours ago, zengara.8301 said:

Dont disrespect us like that 😞 Magumma<any 50 man blob. Literally any, if you got blob with 50 ppl, you win.

 

I don't know, the exact updates for the builds, but they have been rather weird, it is almost like Gw2 encourages this kind of gameplay, rather than fighting group wise. Like a year or 2 back, a good guild could easily kill a blob, now it is impossible, longer dps  cd and less heals/boons + overall less skill/cordination (because even if you get the best players to press the exact skills necessary, you still can not "survive" a bomb, unless if it is an extremely bad bomb. The weird part is I made you read a lot of this, that have nothing to do with magumma or wsr/vabbi. And you can not dmg as highly as before, counter a blob with skill, because your CD is now longer, in other words, less survival and less dmg. Which is only good for guilds that are not that good, but just big).

 

Untop of that, they make it impossible to "avoid" (boons/skills etc) a bomb, so a blob can run you over harder now than before, before if you played extremely well, and every party member pressed their skills/dodges. In other words, you were in a very good guild, you could easily get out of blob bomb meanwhile 20 people take down 80 people. Now it is impossible, unless if the 80 people is literally not pressing their skills. I just think the updates have been ultimately rather bad for WvW. Maybe this is better for massive guilds though. 

Wondering if you're Zengara from [EXG] on Deso back in 2012-2014 or thereabouts? If so, those were good times where exactly what you've mentioned was not only possible but exhilarating to do.

[kash.9213]

You can't take a pickup group and crash into a blob, but you can make their composition scramble more and more as you go by killing key support who's body language shows they're holding up their sides core. Your side kind of has to have that pug culture that again, reads both sides body language and says we're playing evasively, moving and improvising on the fly as a pack, and thinking ahead to avoid flash lockdowns and bombs while we drag them around dismantling their comp.

You might not beat that blob but you can tie them up on a corner of a map and probably make their next recovery prep time take a bit longer. If your side is panning camera often you have a better chance of catching stealth signs on the terrain, portal sounds, and large map movement lag creeping your way.

If you decide to tag up, you can let everyone know you're just tagging to make quick calls if you're trying to ninja a camp or tower or something before a stronger response and to ping the map for each other for real time heads-up. 

That all hinges on enough of your side being cool with WvW being shabby for the sphere your server is in and making the most of it. Some days though, things look bleak and stale and you just have to log and leave Anet to it. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by kash.9213

[Knighthonor.4061]

Hidden Tags kill WvW. More people would stay around if they knew other allies were on the map instead of running around hidden from their own teammates

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Hidden Tags kill WvW. More people would stay around if they knew other allies were on the map instead of running around hidden from their own teammates

I admit, I run a hidden tag, but its when my guild is running havoc. I tag to help direct them where we are going. I don't want to pull people from the main tags so we don't run visible and draw people from the main tags but we can stay organized. Since I am on other voice channels I don't petition to joy public tags that require voice nor join those that are open but ask people to join voice if they do join. So in that sense there is a balance. Tags that require voice to join are fine. Private tags that only allow join if voice are fine, and private tags that only allow join for their own logic work as well. It took a while to get private tags for various reasons, I don't think we should remove it since it adds a lot of value in both organized play and small scale while not detracting from large scale organization.

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Hidden Tags kill WvW. More people would stay around if they knew other allies were on the map instead of running around hidden from their own teammates

Well yes, but actually no. 

The problem with this argument is that you might as well say "not playing WvW kills WvW". I mean you think people are there, but they're not.

The better point would be "no tags kill WvW". Screw the hidden tag thats their choice - why isnt there another visible tag? Why is everything 50 man or nothing? We know tags work fine when even if its not a "fight commander".

Heck you can go to a completely dead DBL and not meet a soul for an hour as you see the only map chat is yours... and then you tag up for a random tower cap or something and suddenly people crawl out from under rocks, behind trees or just ascend from a lake like some sort of rapid fish-into-man evolution. Its amazing to watch really.

There is nothing technically stopping us from tagging up. But people dont want to, because then there is expectations and those that never said a peep in map chat suddenly knows all about commanding and demand you conform.

TL;DR people kill WvW not tags.

I still wish Anet would simply make a hover-over description visible on the tag so everyone can see what the purpose of it is on the map, whether it be "Guild raid", "Just for bay defense", "50 man fight squad" or "Closed 5 man roaming" and when they complain I'd just point to it, tell them to read and not be morons, but I digress.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Hesione.9412]

7 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Hidden Tags kill WvW. More people would stay around if they knew other allies were on the map instead of running around hidden from their own teammates

When they won't join comms, won't stay on the tag when pushing or moving around in a fight, go squirreling off after a single player, get picked off as backline, etc, what is the point of having them in a squad? 

[GutterRat.1269]

Just do what I do...play other games.

[Mabi black.1824]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I still wish Anet would simply make a hover-over description visible on the tag so everyone can see what the purpose of it is on the map

That's a nice suggestion. nice idea. and also useful I would say.

[Mabi black.1824]

18 hours ago, zengara.8301 said:

I don't know, the exact updates for the builds, but they have been rather weird, it is almost like Gw2 encourages this kind of gameplay, rather than fighting group wise. Like a year or 2 back, a good guild could easily kill a blob, now it is impossible,

I think this observation of yours should open a broader reasoning. We have read many times this type of consideration that recalls past times where 20 can erase 50. My premise is that if we think that behind the scenes there are unwary development technicians, we are very far from reality.

I've also already written it, when we saw the recent class balance notes, the development knows everything, and has already defined the perimeter where it wants to take the ''style'' of combat of our mode. There is no right or wrong way. There is only the choice of that path and which direction development wants to take. Because they are two sides of the same coin.

If we get that 20 can erase 50 without major problems, it is natural consequence to create conditions of non-equilibrium between classes to obtain it. So you'll have players here complaining that the balance in this mode is garbage. In the same way we will get clashes that are resolved in a few seconds, just imagining, because if 20 cancel 50 it is because I allowed to build a heavy bomb to leave everyone on the ground.

So we will have players who come here on the forum to write that the fights are just garbage because they all solve themselves in the same way in a few seconds. and so on.

On the other hand, probably the part that the development has chosen, leads you to a more balanced game between the classes, and to more complicated clashes that are not resolved instantly, but that lead to two complete teams that cross over and over again.

So which part of the same coin is right and which is wrong? There isn't. Both are fun. Both have strengths and weaknesses. That's why I've written several times that when development gets your hands on balance it's one of the most complicated things to do.

[Xenesis.6389]

5 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

When they won't join comms, won't stay on the tag when pushing or moving around in a fight, go squirreling off after a single player, get picked off as backline, etc, what is the point of having them in a squad? 

By the same token what's the point of joining a tag that picks terribad positions to fight in, sits in bombs all day, is still practically blind to enemy tactics particularly repeated portal bombs or stacks around corners, even when there's 50 pairs of eyes in the group/voice. 🤭🍿

[ArchonWing.9480]

57 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

By the same token what's the point of joining a tag that picks terribad positions to fight in, sits in bombs all day, is still practically blind to enemy tactics particularly repeated portal bombs or stacks around corners, even when there's 50 pairs of eyes in the group/voice. 🤭🍿

That sounds like an argument for hidden tags xD

While it sucks to have nobody communicate in chat, not every squad is going to be a good idea to join for these reasons. A lot of these guild groups push in assuming everyone else has similar sustain and this just because a suicide run.

Some groups love portal bombs, but there's a player limit. If you take the portal with them, you'll screw them over because then the portal can only be used 20 times and nobody can go back. 🙃

This is made worse if the tag is also the portaling mesmer for some reason as people will follow the tag and give it away.

I mean we should have more tools on info but people run invisible for a reason and leading an unorganized group of 50 is not fun for many. And it's not too hard to find most of these anyways, if they're of a relevant size.

Edited March 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheQuickFox.3826]

If players are berating the commanders then it is no wonder hardly anyone likes to play commander.

 

If you're massively outnumbered on all maps, just log out of WvW and play another game type. Enemy zergs will only keep spawn camping as long as there are players coming out of the spawn that they can kill and get rewarded for doing so.

 

I usually play at off hours and there usually are no commanders. If there is no action going and you don't want to take the responsibility or create the expectations that come with the commander tag, you can still get some action going by building a ram or cata at a location you want to capture and add in team chat: <location ping> Cata up. This is enough to summon some players who are interested capturing a tower to come help you. And after that you just ping the next location you want to capture or defend. Voila, you are now leading a small group without being the commander. And when any player knows it better or has a better strategy, they can just tag up.

Edited March 9, 2023 by TheQuickFox.3826

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

That sounds like an argument for hidden tags xD

While it sucks to have nobody communicate in chat, not every squad is going to be a good idea to join for these reasons. A lot of these guild groups push in assuming everyone else has similar sustain and this just because a suicide run.

Some groups love portal bombs, but there's a player limit. If you take the portal with them, you'll screw them over because then the portal can only be used 20 times and nobody can go back. 🙃

This is made worse if the tag is also the portaling mesmer for some reason as people will follow the tag and give it away.

I mean we should have more tools on info but people run invisible for a reason and leading an unorganized group of 50 is not fun for many. And it's not too hard to find most of these anyways, if they're of a relevant size.

They can go hidden tag, but some don't have a choice when they need numbers against bigger enemies. 🤷‍♂️

There's groups that use double portals, but yeah I've seen commanders try to do stealth portals on their own and have a handful of puglings follow them even when the entire zerg is sitting back, and the puglings don't even question why that is.

I'm sure people would have fun running 50 pugs, it's just the problem of running into an organized group which can easily smash them, only takes one fight to make the tag disappear.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

They can go hidden tag, but some don't have a choice when they need numbers against bigger enemies.

It's more that people just want to run with guild/friends and that's more of an oversized party (10-20) rather than a map squad, and it's much more effort to communicate with those not in comms. I mean yes they aren't going to be able to engage an enemy map queue but they probably weren't anyways as that's not fun for everyone. I mean, the game mode was intending for people to split up. You usually would want some lieutenants to manage individual parties.

There does come times where you do need everyone on the map to work together though.

It would be really nice if people could form their own subgroups but most don't even understand their own toons, much less fitting them in a party.

  

2 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

If players are berating the commanders then it is no wonder hardly anyone likes to play commander.

Pugmanders also have to deal with other toxic guild groups competing for space  and using them as decoys. And God help you if you're not exclusively chasing swords and want to defend things, or if the guilds arbitrarily oscillate between staking out fights for themselves and telling you to leave and then demanding your help 2 minutes later. Or they might even just tell you to tag down.

Edited March 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Junkpile.7439]

Do all kind of fun solo stuff like destroy sm cannons while 10 monkeys stand in wall and throw kitten at you. They really love cannons.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:55 AM, kash.9213 said:

You can't take a pickup group and crash into a blob, but you can make their composition scramble more and more as you go by killing key support who's body language shows they're holding up their sides core. Your side kind of has to have that pug culture that again, reads both sides body language and says we're playing evasively, moving and improvising on the fly as a pack, and thinking ahead to avoid flash lockdowns and bombs while we drag them around dismantling their comp.

You might not beat that blob but you can tie them up on a corner of a map and probably make their next recovery prep time take a bit longer. If your side is panning camera often you have a better chance of catching stealth signs on the terrain, portal sounds, and large map movement lag creeping your way.

If you decide to tag up, you can let everyone know you're just tagging to make quick calls if you're trying to ninja a camp or tower or something before a stronger response and to ping the map for each other for real time heads-up. 

That all hinges on enough of your side being cool with WvW being shabby for the sphere your server is in and making the most of it. Some days though, things look bleak and stale and you just have to log and leave Anet to it. 

i mean, in the end u just admit that u cannot beat the blob itself. u don't need a group to catch some kills out of a casual blob. even a good one might lose 5-10 people against a blob-cloud

but u won't win. u could earlier win rather easy, now u need at least 30 to beat 50+, and even that is a grind. and guilds dont run more than 25, the more casual guilds will need even more numbers to get this going. even fighting 10 more on similar skilled groups can be more tough than necessary

 

the dmg coefficient and cooldown and heal nerfs and retaliation removing damaged Wvw so much, it's no wonder many people quitted. the quality and motivation dropped so hard after these changes, idk if Anet actually can see what they did there. my guess is, they don't

only reason why numbers still are beatable sometimes is, because the mode is just extra casual nowadays. it's not really an acchievement farming pvE mains or new players, who basically get trucked down by us ... but it's not that there is anything else to do really

outside of yeah, wallrepairs for free rank-ups, not that anyone asked for these but seems to be the "content" these days to go for

[kash.9213]

3 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

i mean, in the end u just admit that u cannot beat the blob itself. u don't need a group to catch some kills out of a casual blob. even a good one might lose 5-10 people against a blob-cloud

but u won't win. u could earlier win rather easy, now u need at least 30 to beat 50+, and even that is a grind. and guilds dont run more than 25, the more casual guilds will need even more numbers to get this going. even fighting 10 more on similar skilled groups can be more tough than necessary

 

the dmg coefficient and cooldown and heal nerfs and retaliation removing damaged Wvw so much, it's no wonder many people quitted. the quality and motivation dropped so hard after these changes, idk if Anet actually can see what they did there. my guess is, they don't

only reason why numbers still are beatable sometimes is, because the mode is just extra casual nowadays. it's not really an acchievement farming pvE mains or new players, who basically get trucked down by us ... but it's not that there is anything else to do really

outside of yeah, wallrepairs for free rank-ups, not that anyone asked for these but seems to be the "content" these days to go for

Op wants a different experience. I don't think they care about winning matchups. Might as well drag everything around a lot and go for flash mob kills and flip enough different stuff for rewards within the hour or so you probably have with whoever is around. Bursts of dense action and track rewards are about all this mode has.  Since nothing else is going on there they can treat the disparity like a Raid encounter or open world boss event and go hard on the daily and weekly attempts and fill everyone up at least. 

I get what you're saying and agree with you but if you don't care about the time constraint of the match then you can make some kind of game out of it. Hard part is getting everyone into a vibe though, I can't blame people when it's looking bleak.

 

[Mabi black.1824]

6 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

motivation dropped so hard

These are the only right words. motivation. And believing that this motivation for balance updates between classes is lacking, takes you so far away from reality. This is a team game. server. Worlds. I guess we still don't realize the earthquake that alliances represents for so many players. Those who don't come here to the forum, those who don't really like combat guilds, or Elit guilds, or guilds hopping from one server to another. 

The ones you want to use to ''randomly fill the empty spaces'' of the new servers that alliances want to give us. Who have already understood well how they will be treated and what consideration Anet has given them. Those players who walk away from the game without even writing it down to you will all disappear without much noise without complaining, and leave behind only an arid desert. (a bit too scenic but I do it just to stimulate your reaction 🤭 )

Well you will soon realize how many there are. I have already written that we are already in the midst of alliances. And you're just beginning to see the first little anticipatory effects they'll bring. In spite of myself and with all that he wrote to try to avoid it.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Mabi black.1824

[MarkBecks.6453]

from my perspective, and having played for 10 and a half years, the linking was temporary system to give life to lower population servers but has stayed, and now with Alliances, I feel they will be top heavy as people clamor for the best Alliance guilds. The zone blobs are unpleasant to fight, and many new players coming to WvW to benefit from the new rewards, and reward tracks do take places in EB which also puts pressure on Commanders who often don't have the regular players who are sitting in a que.
My only thought on zone blobs would be to somehow penalize any group bigger than 20 with vulnerability if they are within 10 000 foot range of other players. Otherwise I am pretty over being pulled 3 different ways in a fight, and just feels the real fights are missing, but that's just my opinion.

[Sparetent.9756]

Yet again, another weekend of 20v60. Doesn't matter the time of day, always getting ganked because we are so vastly outnumbered.

 

YAWN.................