Cata and strapper overperforming, lets nerf ranger again.

[Vamp Rook.7835]

Quote

Ranger

• Signet of the Hunt: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

 

Just saying that Unnatural Transversal and now Signet of the Hunt nerfs are not justified on a meta where rangers are underperforming because of projectiles reflect/destroy spam from overperfoming specs.

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

It does seem to be an odd choice.

I mean, with the amount of projectile hate, at-least signet of the hunt gave us rangers some hope of punching through, it must have been causing someone an issue at 20 sec CD...

[Sandzibar.5134]

I've never before played a MMO before where 25% of the in game available weapons dont get to do any damage most of the time in the PvP/WvW equivalent, or just straight up harm the owner when they try to use them.

It's... an interesting approach to take.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sandzibar.5134
cmc is a bad

[Lonecap.4105]

Well - this brings it in line with warrior Signet of Might, which has a 25 sec CD.

[Kuma.1503]

• Quote

   

  • Sneak Gyro: Reduced stealth duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvP only. Reduced number of pulses from 6 to 5 in PvP only.
  • Function Gyro: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5 in PvP only.
  • Gyroscopic Acceleration: Reduced superspeed duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

   

Mmhm~ 

Scrapper golden child. Literally never gets nerfed. 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Vamp Rook.7835 said:

 

Just saying that Unnatural Transversal and now Signet of the Hunt nerfs are not justified on a meta where rangers are underperforming because of projectiles reflect/destroy spam from overperfoming specs.

Signet of the hunt nerf: good. If it was on me I'd have changed the number of unblockables, rather than the cd, but I'll take it.
Unnatural Traversal nerf: obscenely kittening bad. This skill deserved to exist with exactly the same mechanics it was intended to have on release. A good thing to address might have been the obscene amount of multipliers one could slap on maul, if anything at all (those are problematic with and without untamed), but that's pretty much it.

Give me the confused reacts IDC. Untamed brought something good to pvp and I liked it a lot.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Vancho.8750]

15 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Signet of the hunt nerf: good. If it was on me I'd have changed the number of unblockables, rather than the cd, but I'll take it.
Unnatural Traversal nerf: obscenely kittening bad. This skill deserved to exist with exactly the same mechanics it was intended to have on release. A good thing to address might have been the obscene amount of multipliers one could slap on maul, if anything at all (those are problematic with and without untamed), but that's pretty much it.

Give me the confused reacts IDC. Untamed brought something good to pvp and I liked it a lot.

I still think the Teleport should have been a Hammer skill, it just gives it more defined role on the weapon and removes allot of issues that come from getting teleport on ranger that require "balancing".

[aymnad.9023]

Even if I dislike seeing this nerf this is a change most rangers expected when they released the 20s cd patch. 25s is fair, I was afraid they would do more. I think reaper could also have had a similar treatment.

Edited April 18, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Bazsi.2734]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Signet of the hunt nerf: good. If it was on me I'd have changed the number of unblockables, rather than the cd, but I'll take it.
Unnatural Traversal nerf: obscenely kittening bad. This skill deserved to exist with exactly the same mechanics it was intended to have on release. A good thing to address might have been the obscene amount of multipliers one could slap on maul, if anything at all (those are problematic with and without untamed), but that's pretty much it.

Give me the confused reacts IDC. Untamed brought something good to pvp and I liked it a lot.

Yes the untelegraphed oneshots were really something good. Once you learned how to press 3 buttons at once, randomly tailswipe+mauling people to death in teamfights just displayed superior skill all around.

[melcor.1094]

Last weekend the stripper was a bit overperforming but somehow no one complained

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yes the untelegraphed oneshots were really something good. Once you learned how to press 3 buttons at once, randomly tailswipe+mauling people to death in teamfights just displayed superior skill all around.

IDK about you but I see untamed casting Maul in the middle of nowhere, I take a wild bet and dodge.

[Bazsi.2734]

50 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

IDK about you but I see untamed casting Maul in the middle of nowhere, I take a wild bet and dodge.

Yes, the good old "just dodge 5head" meme. Ignoring that this only works if  there is noone else focusing you, I know you would not say this about any other oneshot(which were all already nerfed by the way). This was an anomaly left in the game, letting one specialisation of one class do something that was prohibited for everyone else.

The Unnatural Traversal nerf was like one of the 3 things I liked since EoD release. 

Also just to contribute to the actual thread, this nerf is nothing. Stop crying about it, this changes nothing. If it was bumped up to 40 seconds, now that would be chaning some dynamics, 20 and 25 seconds is basicly the same.

[aymnad.9023]

3 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yes the untelegraphed oneshots were really something good. Once you learned how to press 3 buttons at once, randomly tailswipe+mauling people to death in teamfights just displayed superior skill all around.

Not enjoying it is / was fair but : it was at least 4, which is why you would not see the combo pulled off correctly even in plat meaning you had time to stunbreak and / or block, then other professions have blink + dmg and finally once untamed was in it was either get a kill or die which is why even in team it would go down fast. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[jdawgie.1835]

12 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Not enjoying it is / was fair but : it was at least 4, which is why you would not see the combo pulled off correctly even in plat meaning you had time to stunbreak and / or block, then other professions have blink + dmg and finally once untamed was in it was either get a kill or die which is why even in team it would go down fast. 

Sigh. Exactly. And it was obvious af when rangers were gearing up for it. The tell? For a second during a fight they stop moving right before the combo goes off. Split second but in a mid fight man it was obvious. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Also just to contribute to the actual thread, this nerf is nothing. Stop crying about it, this changes nothing. If it was bumped up to 40 seconds, now that would be chaning some dynamics, 20 and 25 seconds is basicly the same.

 

It's literally a 25% CD reduction nerf--'basically the same' would be say 5%, leading to something off the wall in 21 second CD.  

Your 'quick maths' do demonstrate a problem with their balancing, as they literally make it 25 seconds for no reason other than it is a 'nice number'.  That's not even balance at this point, it's arbitrary dart throwing.

Which isn't even getting to the fact that we need more unblockables, not less.  We have things like reflection as a counter and had things like retaliation, but they eschew all of that in the name of the basest form of defense...block (with invuln being right up there serving practically the same mindless purpose)

Also, before we'd go the route of they nerfed the CD because 'longbow pew pew from 1500', we'd also have to remember maps are like 10 feet wide and can be crossed in all of 3 seconds by practically any class.  With this in mind, range is no longer a factor here as chasedown potential is through the roof.

 

12 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

•  

Mmhm~ 

Scrapper golden child. Literally never gets nerfed. 

 

The scrapper changes are again just random dart throwing as nothing was done about the actual issue in grenade oneshots.  You know, those prohibited oneshots only meme teleburst Untamed's got to use...

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yes, the good old "just dodge 5head" meme

I mean, I did. And you know very well I have been playing nothing but mesmer in this game, I'm not defending untamed out of any sort of personal interest.
Untamed DID have a moderate amount of problems, but all of those were stemming from core functionalities (slapping a gazillion modifiers and hitting 10k maul, longbow with 1500 range which makes it straight up unmanageable for half of the builds in the game, the whole GS kit being overloaded af on every single skill, valk amulet giving 27k hp without any cost because rangers for some reason ALWAYS crit regardless of the amulet)

[Bazsi.2734]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

It's literally a 25% CD reduction nerf... Your 'quick maths' do demonstrate a problem with their balancing, as they literally make it 25 seconds for no reason other than it is a 'nice number'...
 

...we'd also have to remember maps are like 10 feet wide and can be crossed in all of 3 seconds by practically any class.

This is awesome. When you start with a "but the numbers though", then finish up with... with this. 😄

Also saying that my opinions demostrate anything about what a-net is actively doing is just... man I wish.

Forum engagement is more fun than playing the actual game at this point.

[Ferus.3165]

at least the strange restriction (that you only have 10 attacks that are unblockable and this counter even goes down if the attack is evaded) that has been randomly introduced into the game some time ago for no reason at all should be reverted now. It is ridiculous that if you pop lb2 with quickness the unblockable effect lasts only for one second.

 

Warrior doesn't really have a problem like this because you only play signet of might with gunflame and that is just one or two heavy hitting attacks and not a bunch of low damage ones.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

This is awesome. When you start with a "but the numbers though", then finish up with... with this. 😄

Also saying that my opinions demostrate anything about what a-net is actively doing is just... man I wish.

Forum engagement is more fun than playing the actual game at this point.

 

To clarify, it was the '20 to 25 seconds is nothing, but up to 40 seconds would be' type logic that made me draw the comparison, as anet is doing the same thing in a less 'git gud noob' type tone that was being used there.  

The point is most games when balancing shave fractions of seconds or at most seconds off something, not 5-10s of seconds that GW2 balance always is for 'reasons'.  

[apharma.3741]

34 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

To clarify, it was the '20 to 25 seconds is nothing, but up to 40 seconds would be' type logic that made me draw the comparison, as anet is doing the same thing in a less 'git gud noob' type tone that was being used there.  

The point is most games when balancing shave fractions of seconds or at most seconds off something, not 5-10s of seconds that GW2 balance always is for 'reasons'.  

It might have something to do with how it works on the back end but it's pretty standard seeing 5s-10s.
Adding 5s to a 20s CD isn't that big a deal and really CDs should be 25+ seconds for something like signet of the hunt, it's still a great utility that you will slot when fighting anything with lots of blocks like guard, warrior, some mesmers and engineers.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

30 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

It might have something to do with how it works on the back end

I honestly don’t like this excuse very much. In principle a computer can compute all computable functions which covers the whole of just about anything possible in the universe. A language that is Turing universal, which I’m sure gw2 is coded with, means they could literary “just program it” as the solutions to a vast majority of their problems aside from computational complexity issues…this definitely not being done of them.

 

in particular there is nothing special or different between using 1-2s or 100 to 1000s in coding…it just doesn’t work like that. There’s no “maybe it’s how their coding works” excuse to use here

 

now if you said 9,223,372,036,854,775,808…that would be a different story…and would totally be “a problem on the backend”

[Bazsi.2734]

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

To clarify, it was the '20 to 25 seconds is nothing, but up to 40 seconds would be' type logic that made me draw the comparison, as anet is doing the same thing in a less 'git gud noob' type tone that was being used there.  

The point is most games when balancing shave fractions of seconds or at most seconds off something, not 5-10s of seconds that GW2 balance always is for 'reasons'.  

Here is why those 5 seconds make no difference. If you enter a fight(lets say 1v1), and there is no oneshot happening, how many times do you get to use the skill? If it's 20-30 seconds, odds are you get to use it twice. Unless it's increased so much that you only get to use it once during a fight, it changes nothing.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Here is why those 5 seconds make no difference. If you enter a fight(lets say 1v1), and there is no oneshot happening, how many times do you get to use the skill? If it's 20-30 seconds, odds are you get to use it twice. Unless it's increased so much that you only get to use it once during a fight, it changes nothing.

I get it, not that I like the '360 no-scope, oneshot or nothing' balance, but I get the reasoning.  

My counter to that is, if it doesn't matter than why not just leave it? If we're saying the 5 seconds is excess between fights, then they still shouldn't be changing it. 

I have a feeling, someone, somewhere downed a dev a few times in a fight with it, and they kicked it up 5s to match their typical balancing increment.  

It's just a really weird change, along the lines of the Sharpening Stone 'non-change' in leaving it without 20% reduction even though no one anywhere really seems to use it in common/meta builds (at least in competitive).  

Edited April 20, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Koensol.5860]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:33 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

IDK about you but I see untamed casting Maul in the middle of nowhere, I take a wild bet and dodge.

Except they didn't cast maul. They'd cast hilt bash into the port which is much less obvious and makes sure you are instantly stunned after the port. Also it could be done through walls and other terrain, mind you. It was just cheese. It's really not that hard to see. Though I do think the port needs something else rn. It feels too low value to warrant a slot atm.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Koensol.5860

[Zyreva.1078]

9 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Here is why those 5 seconds make no difference. If you enter a fight(lets say 1v1), and there is no oneshot happening, how many times do you get to use the skill? If it's 20-30 seconds, odds are you get to use it twice. Unless it's increased so much that you only get to use it once during a fight, it changes nothing.

It's not a skill that is supposed to be pressed on cd. It's primarily a counter skill (vs blocks/reflects) and a tool to land burst. As such 5 seconds can make a huge difference. It can be the difference between for example being able to counter every cata Fortified Earth or only every second. It may also give an opponent that is getting +1'ed (Untamed isn't really a 1vs1 spec after all) up to 5 additional seconds of not taking dmg - potentially enough for help to arrive. With how low the cd on many defensive skills is (not just blocks matter) 5s can make a big difference in your ability to land a burst or not.

Now will it actually change the meta - i don't know. Maybe not. But it is still a very odd nerf, considering how many blocks and reflects are used by pretty much all of the "strong" builds - that (scrapper aside) did not receive any nerfs. So it's basically an indirect buff to builds that don't need any buffs. It's not like Signet of the Hunt was gatekeeping block reliant specs.

When considering that competitive games have a tendency to become slow paced, low on kills and stale very quickly (unless it's a rather onesided matchup and sometims even then) nerfing offense on both the "main" dps builds that were played last MAT while keeping defense completely unscathed appears even more questionable.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Zyreva.1078