Hero Points are outdated

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

9 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I don't understand how your alt would have enough currency to buy 75 scrolls, is it because the PVP currency is account wide and you would have had to already grind the currency on at least one character prior?

The currency (Testimonies) is stored in the Wallet. Earned by ranking up in WvW. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heroics_Notary

[jason.1083]

5 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I don't understand how your alt would have enough currency to buy 75 scrolls, is it because the PVP currency is account wide and you would have had to already grind the currency on at least one character prior?

To buy the scrolls you either need proofs of heroics, testimonies of desert heroics or testimonies of jade heroics, currently you can earn the last one from WvW which can freely be exchanged for the other 2, these are all stored in your wallet, so they are account wide. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

As someone who has never really gave GW2 a try until recently, comparing it to all the other MMORPG's I've played similar to GW2, none of the other ones locked classes behind additional grinds. Gear or mounts or acheivmenets, etc get locked behind additional grinds, but I've never seen it happen to a class, at least until GW2.

Regardless of whether you think it's hard ot easy to get HP, the fact is these "Elite Specializations" are essentially a new class in relation to how they function within GW2. Now SWTOR used to locked their "Advanced Classes" behind additional grinds, but the difference there was you got to pick what advance class you wanted when you hit like level 10 or 12 or something. But the current iteration of SWTOR, you just pick the advanced class right off the bat now, they got rid of that system.

I think GW1 had you select your secondary class at like level 10 or something right? But once you hit MAX LEVEL, you had your classes unlocked. Because that's really the important factor here I think, is that once you hit level 80 (which is max level) you should be DONE grinding your class, and the game should now be about grinding for gear or mounts or whatever endgame activity you want to do.

GW2 essentially treats elite specializations as End Game content, rather than mid game content, like most other MMORPG's do. So once you hit MAX LEVEL, well....you're not done! You have to keep going! Unless you want to get stuck with a "Core Class" and only a few of them can keep up with the elite classes.....so if you picked wrong, you'll be left behind. ESO kind of does this as well, but with their Champion Point system. You hit level 50 (max level), but wait...there's more! Now you need to grind  at least 1800 champion points if you want to actually max your character out!

I understand that Anet wants to force people to play the game in certain ways, and wants to time gate certain content, etc...but I mean...how arbitrary is it to run around a map just to collect something because the game wants you to collect 250 of these things before you actually complete your character. Most players would already explore most of the maps in their normal travels, especially after reaching max level and having an elite spec unlocked. I mean they will be farming mats, doing puzzles, etc so eventually most players will explore anyways.....so why try to force them to? What does this accomplish besides wasting people's time? Forces them to group? Forces them to what do the HOT and POF story lines?

As a new player (essentially), it seems like the game REALLY wants to force you to play a very specific way, but the reality is that not every player cares about map exploration...not every player cares about the story or characters...some players want to take the drivers test, pass it, then start driving. I bet most people would hate it if when you got your drivers license, the DMV said "Ok so now...after you've driven across the country for a whole year with another licensed driver with you, only THEN can you drive on your own...." You'd probably why right? What a waste of time right? It's so arbitrary to force you to do that, and then to have to wait again after you ALREADY took the written test, took the behind the wheel test, then passed, but then you STILL couldn't drive? I guarantee a LOT of people would be pissed right?

I imagine if you gave WoW players the option to skip to endgame without grinding for gear they would take it.  And yet if you ask them if GW2 is doing it right by not having this form of vertical progression they would respond in the negative.  So, which is it?  Do they want to grind for their gear or not?

It's the same sort of thing that motivates people to come out of retirement.  Do you want to get up and go to work every morning?  Heck no!  I'd rather do whatever I want to do!  But at the same time I acknowledge that the structure provided by my employment as well as the incidental social interaction it provides are important to my well-being.  Take that away and my life feels aimless.  I don't know what to do with myself.  Where's my goal?  What's my purpose?  And who am I going to tell about it?

It seems pretty simple when you boil it down, right?  I'm going to explore the map anyway.  So why not just give me my elite spec?  But then why not remove this goal or that goal until I have no goals left?  Wouldn't that be the dream?  Isn't what what GW2 is supposedly all about?  Not forcing me to do anything I don't want to do and just letting me play the game? 

But why am I playing it?  It suddenly feels aimless, which is why the expansions are so different from the original game.  I don't think most players actually enjoy that feeling of not really having to do anything.  It lacks the structure they're looking for.  Hero points are just one small part of that.

[vandrefalk.6823]

If anything, hero points make old maps more populated by people coming back; both those currently playing there and those who just want to get the HPs that might open their eyes to ongoing map-wide events and then join in and have some fun on the way.

 

I for one have been enjoying learning to master some core classes again while getting HPs to unlock elite specs.... but I'm not sure OP was serious or just the troll everyone else suggests they are.... if so, judging by the number of posts, maybe this player has more posts than hours in game even...

 

Anyhow - think we can safely move on from this topic.

[Gravitron.7982]

1 hour ago, jason.1083 said:

To buy the scrolls you either need proofs of heroics, testimonies of desert heroics or testimonies of jade heroics, currently you can earn the last one from WvW which can freely be exchanged for the other 2, these are all stored in your wallet, so they are account wide. 

Gotcha, so either way you still have to grind to unlock especs, but this way allows you to grind on a single toon, to unlock it for everyone else.

[Gravitron.7982]

49 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I imagine if you gave WoW players the option to skip to endgame without grinding for gear they would take it.  And yet if you ask them if GW2 is doing it right by not having this form of vertical progression they would respond in the negative.  So, which is it?  Do they want to grind for their gear or not?

It's the same sort of thing that motivates people to come out of retirement.  Do you want to get up and go to work every morning?  Heck no!  I'd rather do whatever I want to do!  But at the same time I acknowledge that the structure provided by my employment as well as the incidental social interaction it provides are important to my well-being.  Take that away and my life feels aimless.  I don't know what to do with myself.  Where's my goal?  What's my purpose?  And who am I going to tell about it?

It seems pretty simple when you boil it down, right?  I'm going to explore the map anyway.  So why not just give me my elite spec?  But then why not remove this goal or that goal until I have no goals left?  Wouldn't that be the dream?  Isn't what what GW2 is supposedly all about?  Not forcing me to do anything I don't want to do and just letting me play the game? 

But why am I playing it?  It suddenly feels aimless, which is why the expansions are so different from the original game.  I don't think most players actually enjoy that feeling of not really having to do anything.  It lacks the structure they're looking for.  Hero points are just one small part of that.

I'm not talking about gear though, I'm talking about something even more fundamental than gear, elite specs. I can just buy gear off the trader for cheap and gear all my toons, no real grind required. Instead, the grind is put on the class itself, which seems backwards to me. The grind is typically on the gear, while the class is unlocked when you create a toon.

[AliamRationem.5172]

18 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I'm not talking about gear though, I'm talking about something even more fundamental than gear, elite specs. I can just buy gear off the trader for cheap and gear all my toons, no real grind required. Instead, the grind is put on the class itself, which seems backwards to me. The grind is typically on the gear, while the class is unlocked when you create a toon.

Seems an arbitrary distinction to me.  Requirements to progress your character by unlocking useful skills or items providing some structure and direction.  It's all the same to me.  I don't see why it's fine while leveling up but not fine when you reach level 80.

[Ashantara.8731]

10 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters.

Do we now? I only have nine PvE characters.

[Gibson.4036]

43 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I'm not talking about gear though, I'm talking about something even more fundamental than gear, elite specs. I can just buy gear off the trader for cheap and gear all my toons, no real grind required. Instead, the grind is put on the class itself, which seems backwards to me. The grind is typically on the gear, while the class is unlocked when you create a toon.

It's the concept of horizontal progression.

Instead of getting a new power level of gear in each expansion, you have a new trait line that changes how your class plays.

And it takes a few hours to unlock.

[Gravitron.7982]

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's the concept of horizontal progression.

Instead of getting a new power level of gear in each expansion, you have a new trait line that changes how your class plays.

And it takes a few hours to unlock.

Horizontal Progression implies the same power level. Is Reaper or Scourge on the same power level as core necro?

[Khisanth.2948]

9 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Was going to say to just stick with the good old baits but looks like the fish in this pond will bite everything. 

Well the problem is there is always more fish in the sea ...

8 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

And for the first toon, just play the game I guess, is it too much work to expirience the game at least once and get your hero points normally? 

Some people just want to work extra hard to quit the game ASAP 🙂

[Khisanth.2948]

8 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Do we now? I only have nine PvE characters.

Even on GW2E, only around 1% have that many characters.

[Freya.9075]

7 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Horizontal Progression implies the same power level. Is Reaper or Scourge on the same power level as core necro?

Depends on who’s playing. A new player will not be as powerful as an experienced player. Meaning you cannot rely on your gear or profession to carry you when it comes to power level. That’s how horizontal progression works in this game. I know that as a reaper and got my little rat butt kicked in pvp by core necro several times.

I am decent in pve, but since I lack experience in pvp, I will not last there no matter what profession or gear I use. And I used a long time to get my skills to the point where I could do decent damage. What changed my gameplay was learning what the skills and builds do. Not my gear or profession. And certainly not getting hp points for my reaper. If I chose to change my profession now I would suck. My poor weaver can testify to that. And I can’t even blame it on downed rotation anymore 👀

[Zohane.7208]

Ahhhhh, Mortifera's latest troll complaint. Nothing to see here...

 

As for the topic at hand: no, I don't agree that they are an outdated mechanic. They may not be the most entertaining piece of content (to me) but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be there. Plus, you get enough hero points just from levelling so that once you hit level 80 you have all traits unlocked, so by the time you have to fight champions and such you have access to all traits and skills.

[Jin.8501]

OP from that instant gratification generation? 

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Jin.8501 said:

OP from that instant gratification generation? 

Not sure but their threads seem to be geared towards getting a reaction and nothing more. 

[Exo.2143]

Imagine having to play the game oof.

[Astralporing.1957]

20 hours ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

As someone who has never really gave GW2 a try until recently, comparing it to all the other MMORPG's I've played similar to GW2, none of the other ones locked classes behind additional grinds. Gear or mounts or acheivmenets, etc get locked behind additional grinds, but I've never seen it happen to a class, at least until GW2.

Out of curiosity, have you played this obscure game known as FF XIV?

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:03 AM, lezbefriends.7516 said:

They require you to navigate the most annoying crevices of new maps, and it's bad design to require you to fight a boss when you don't have the powerful traits necessary to defeat a boss. So you basically can't trait your new skills as you go, you have to use a meta build and wait till you're nearly finished gathering all the HPs to slot them in. Bad and outdated design all around.

 

Edit: Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters. It's artificial content (akin to gear treadmills) to make them run through maps for hero points on every. single. character.

they don't require you to do anything, they are rewards for playing the maps which as a new player exploring is exactly what you want; valuable rewards.  For the jaded player out there with '50 characters' there are many ways of getting hero points that doesn't involve exploring maps if they don't want to (and they have 50 chars they know this)

Edited April 22, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[BadHealer.3608]

On 4/21/2023 at 8:23 PM, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

Instead, the grind is put on the class itself, which seems backwards to me.

Yeah, I agree. All new games have you starting at the maximum level will all the skills and you have to grind for ages, until you are a class 1 character with no skills.

[Vayne.8563]

On 4/22/2023 at 2:34 AM, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

I don't understand how your alt would have enough currency to buy 75 scrolls, is it because the PVP currency is account wide and you would have had to already grind the currency on at least one character prior?

First of all, it's not factual that you need all three, particularly if you have a lot of characters. I have characters that only have the elite spec I want you use on them. I have no real need for a druid spec on my ranger, and I'm not particularly excited about untamed, so I only unlocked Soulbeast. The fact that you personally want to unlock all three elite specs on every character is your choice. Even if you did it, you don't have to grind for it.

If you play content on each character, you'll eventually unlock them all anyway, since you'd get them from just doing zone completes.  

At the end of the day, I have 60 characters, each with at least 1 elite spec unlocked, about a third of them with all three.   It's just not as hard, or time consuming as you're making it out to be.

 

As far as other games not having something to do after leveling that allows you to max your abilities, I direct you to pretty much every MMO out there. Every time they come out with an expansion, you have to level all over again, and usually regear as well. Every time Guild Wars 2 comes out with an expansion, I have to either get hero points or more often use the hero points I already have from playing in between expansions.  The day EOD launched, I had 15 characters with EoD elite specs, without ever setting foot in Cantha, because I already had all the hero points I needed. Therefore, I didn't grind anything because I had tons of time to prepare for an expansion I knew was coming out anyway. Try that with WoW.

Furthmore, playing WvW means I have enough currency to get many characters worth of elite specs, but you know, I play the game. That currency flows in when you play WvW.   Hard to imagine who plays WoW is claiming that you don't have to do extra content. This game doesn't require you to level past the first expasion. It's a ridiculous comparison.

[Gravitron.7982]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

First of all, it's not factual that you need all three, particularly if you have a lot of characters. I have characters that only have the elite spec I want you use on them. I have no real need for a druid spec on my ranger, and I'm not particularly excited about untamed, so I only unlocked Soulbeast. The fact that you personally want to unlock all three elite specs on every character is your choice. Even if you did it, you don't have to grind for it.

If you play content on each character, you'll eventually unlock them all anyway, since you'd get them from just doing zone completes.  

At the end of the day, I have 60 characters, each with at least 1 elite spec unlocked, about a third of them with all three.   It's just not as hard, or time consuming as you're making it out to be.

 

As far as other games not having something to do after leveling that allows you to max your abilities, I direct you to pretty much every MMO out there. Every time they come out with an expansion, you have to level all over again, and usually regear as well. Every time Guild Wars 2 comes out with an expansion, I have to either get hero points or more often use the hero points I already have from playing in between expansions.  The day EOD launched, I had 15 characters with EoD elite specs, without ever setting foot in Cantha, because I already had all the hero points I needed. Therefore, I didn't grind anything because I had tons of time to prepare for an expansion I knew was coming out anyway. Try that with WoW.

Furthmore, playing WvW means I have enough currency to get many characters worth of elite specs, but you know, I play the game. That currency flows in when you play WvW.   Hard to imagine who plays WoW is claiming that you don't have to do extra content. This game doesn't require you to level past the first expasion. It's a ridiculous comparison.

So you're saying that GW2 is setup in a way that wants people to be like you, and have 60 characters, and just ..."play the game normally" and not worry about elite specializations because, well....you'll get there "eventually"...?

[costepj.5120]

3 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So you're saying that GW2 is setup in a way that wants people to be like you, and have 60 characters, and just ..."play the game normally" and not worry about elite specializations because, well....you'll get there "eventually"...?

That sounds about right.

I haven't bothered unlocking some elite specs because they don't interest me. Most of my (14) characters have enough hero points to unlock all 3 if they wanted.

[Gravitron.7982]

15 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

That sounds about right.

I haven't bothered unlocking some elite specs because they don't interest me. Most of my (14) characters have enough hero points to unlock all 3 if they wanted.

And I'm sure it took you awhile to get that many HP's. I guess I can mark on my calender 2 or 3 years from now "Day you'll finish unlocking the actual class you want to play.."....hmm maybe someday right?

[Gibson.4036]

14 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

And I'm sure it took you awhile to get that many HP's. I guess I can mark on my calender 2 or 3 years from now "Day you'll finish unlocking the actual class you want to play.."....hmm maybe someday right?

It takes a couple hours to unlock an elite spec.

If your play rate is an hour per year, this may not be your game.