Rip Alac Mirage

[Moradorin.6217]

3 hours ago, knives.6345 said:

Me, who just created Bifrost... 

😞

Dont feel bad. My first legendary's all got made for my Mesmer during Mirage's heyday. That is my first armor set, backpack, torch(rodgort) , pistol (quip), axe (frostfang), sword (bolt), scepter (meteorlogicus), staff (nevermore). I still get to use them on other toons.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[Ombras.2853]

1 hour ago, Dion.1386 said:

I immediatly got asked to switch off my alacmirage after the patch, it is totally dead. So this basically forces the alacdps'ers into mechanist or renegade, and  the mirage players switch to virtuoso (which has much higher dps anyway). Totally uneccesary nerf in my opinion

Yes, and you know why? Because you need to regear it to make it work.
Does it mean it doesn't work anymore? False.
Stop crying.
I believe that's a garbage nerf, and that to hit Staxe they nerfed the wrong things (there are several other ways to do so without touching Staff Mirage). But, for the love of god, be real.

[Jimbru.6014]

One particular build was overperforming in a minority of content, so ANet destroys an entire class play style instead of listening to the players on how to fix the problem. Why am I giving this company my money again?

Edited May 3, 2023 by Jimbru.6014

[Gesbo.6420]

On 5/2/2023 at 7:25 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

It was a heavy handed nerf without any compensation in the form of a longer player-based alacrity. In reality it could have been solved with having only alacrity from staff ambush and not from the clone ambush. That would solve the reliance on clones for boons meaning you can preboon.

The longer player duration would bring us back to square 1. The impossible thing to balance for them apparently is if the player gives too much alacrity the clones are holding axes and are your high damage source. If the clones are giving enough alacrity, you are holding axe and the damage source... its extremely unfortunate as it is a curious idea and instead if leaning into the possibility they are completely killing it off...

 

If they want supports to be supports and just provide long lasting boons make bountiful disillusionment affect 5 players again - alac and Quickness have been separated for a while now there is literally no reason to keep it locked. They had the time to think of a completely new system for guardian who was already the most popular class for them to function but god forbid we figure a way out for the class to have 2 dodges like every other class in the game.

On 5/2/2023 at 7:43 PM, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

What are the odds that the June Prof Update will change the way Alacrity (and other boons) are provided?  Is bringing Mirage down a peg part of a longer balance scheme?  Or is it really Anet just doing Anet things for no reason?

I really hope that is the case but I'm no longer holding my breath. Every next patch is a buildup to dissapointment. It's breaking my heart that they are avoiding working on pressing issues like the dodge in competitive or mantras or useless traits like temporal enchanter that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever, instead let's shave off 5 seconds off of the strongest off hands and juggle some power coefficients on wells....

On 5/2/2023 at 11:33 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

Agreed. I have never liked alac being appended randomly to staff for one spec only. Its a totally unique thing. No other class or spec has this strangeness. Also, inerestingly, it was done in the same string of nerfs/changes to Mirage that relate to wvw/pvp and one dodge because it was done after, scepter was nerfed (lost a clone and damage), after axe nerfs, after staff lost a clone and had its damage nerfed in pvp/wvw. It was IMO done to further nerf staff since it was becoming a popular Mirage option again in pvp/wvw so they did a nerf with a twist. The twist was the nerf was a buff for mindless players in pve to ensure it was a super popular nerf and the actual Mesmer mains would either be sucked into the hype or get drowned out by all the people stoked on getting alac + damage on Mirage....

It technically is hidden behind a trait, the minor called mirage cloak... but the way things are balanced in pve and in pvp is just so kitten lazy and lacking any planning. 

 

Fair enough. The staff axe variant with his curious and unique idea is too strong but completely axing it is not the way to go... its lazy, and insulting to give this playstyle 2 years ago and then just take it away...

 

Mirage was the reason I started playing this game in the first place. A mage that can hide between its illusions and controll them in close compat. The barks were fitting and powerful, the theme was original and exciting. The fantasy was powerful. And now... with each and every patch its dissapointing. Its disheartening to see the reason I started playing be very lazily nerfed to the ground. The fantasy of the whole profession is in shambles ... it just... sucks you know...

 

23 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Can you link me to them in DMs please?

Please I wanna see this too! 

[Catnip.3580]

I'm just a casual player that has loved staff (for my fishing theme fashion wars too) and this nerf completely breaks it. I just tried my first Gyala Delve meta and I guess I need to completely redo my build now. Not quite understanding why this nerf was done so harshly (I don't keep up with everything), but it is quite sad.

Edit: Since I'm a casual, I just decided to go with condi virtuoso. Goodbye staff for now. The low DPS and little to no alac up time in open world metas just didn't make sense anymore. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Catnip.3580
RIP staff

[HotDelirium.7984]

oh stop it its not dead .....

..........you just need FULL Ritualist gear and 100% boon uptime, a perfect rotation, meta build and all 3 clones out all the time.

[Kulvar.1239]

15 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

They had the time to think of a completely new system for guardian who was already the most popular class for them to function but god forbid we figure a way out for the class to have 2 dodges like every other class in the game.

Yeah, but Guardian is the most popular AND the discord leak show a disdain for Mesmer. So of course they made no efforts.

[Gesbo.6420]

13 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Yeah, but Guardian is the most popular AND the discord leak show a disdain for Mesmer. So of course they made no efforts.

Can you please dm me that discord leak 🫨🫨🫨

[draxynnic.3719]

On 5/3/2023 at 4:25 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

It was a heavy handed nerf without any compensation in the form of a longer player-based alacrity. In reality it could have been solved with having only alacrity from staff ambush and not from the clone ambush. That would solve the reliance on clones for boons meaning you can preboon.

They did that before, and people were able to stack axe clones and then use staff ambushes to give alacrity while generating a lot of damage.

(Are we talking about last year's discord leak, or has there been a new one?)

[knives.6345]

19 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Dont feel bad. My first legendary's all got made for my Mesmer during Mirage's heyday. That is my first armor set, backpack, torch(rodgort) , pistol (quip), axe (frostfang), sword (bolt), scepter (meteorlogicus), staff (nevermore). I still get to use them on other toons.

I miss my staff. 😞

[Seneca.6319]

Seeing all these comments and complaints but then you still log in to play the game is called "Stockholm syndrome". I've stopped playing the game since the last balance patch. It's frustrating to see how they just destroy the class and there is no vision. So the only thing I can do to show my anger is stop supporting the company and the game. It's actually great! There's life besides this game. So thank you ANet for giving my life back. F U for shitting on my energy, time and money...

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I imagine the heavy-handed nerf was because Mirage Alacrity was a mistake which breaks their design goals, just as the Chrono that could do Healing, Aacrity and Quickness at the same time was broken.

 

When a class can bring everything to a fight, it pushes players out, and Alacrity Mirage was pretty much the best in slot. Its only recently that other classes like Willbender started to show up, and even Renegade was pushed out of the meta for a very long time mostly due to Mirage having a far easier time with upkeep.

 

Mirage was basically the Quickbrand of Alacrity, which was the problem.

 

Like I said, it was just a very strange situation with Mirage having Alacrity with no traits, low boon duration, a mostly DPS playstyle and so on, which made it feel out of place compared to everything else, and the developers likely wish they'd never done it but its hard for them to reverse it entirely now.

 

All they can do is nerf it until players go back to Chronomancer, then maybe Mirage can get something to replace the functionality it stole from Chrono. (Most of all, a class shouldn't compete with itself.)

Edited May 5, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Gesbo.6420]

7 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

I imagine the heavy-handed nerf was because Mirage Alacrity was a mistake which breaks their design goals, just as the Chrono that could do Healing, Aacrity and Quickness at the same time was broken.

 

When a class can bring everything to a fight, it pushes players out, and Alacrity Mirage was pretty much the best in slot. Its only recently that other classes like Willbender started to show up, and even Renegade was pushed out of the meta for a very long time mostly due to Mirage having a far easier time with upkeep.

 

Mirage was basically the Quickbrand of Alacrity, which was the problem.

 

Like I said, it was just a very strange situation with Mirage having Alacrity with no traits, low boon duration, a mostly DPS playstyle and so on, which made it feel out of place compared to everything else, and the developers likely wish they'd never done it but its hard for them to reverse it entirely now.

 

All they can do is nerf it until players go back to Chronomancer, then maybe Mirage can get something to replace the functionality it stole from Chrono. (Most of all, a class shouldn't compete with itself.)

I agree with you, but mirage alacrity eas designed as a dps alacrity provider from the start as it provides nothing but alacrity and dps. The frustrating part is that it no longer provides any of it well.

 

You can't provide sufficient dps if you are running concentration and you can not provide sufficient alacrity either. I've been running full ritualistic since 2 patches ago and it's just not enough now. And you don't provide any support either as it is. Reverting the change to bountiful disillusionment and restorative mantras might make up for the loss as you'd have the ability to provide enough boons to be just a support imho

[Infusion.7149]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:48 AM, HotDelirium.7984 said:

oh stop it its not dead .....

..........you just need FULL Ritualist gear and 100% boon uptime, a perfect rotation, meta build and all 3 clones out all the time.

Meanwhile mechanist is auto attacking ...

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

7 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

I agree with you, but mirage alacrity eas designed as a dps alacrity provider from the start as it provides nothing but alacrity and dps. The frustrating part is that it no longer provides any of it well.

 

You can't provide sufficient dps if you are running concentration and you can not provide sufficient alacrity either. I've been running full ritualistic since 2 patches ago and it's just not enough now. And you don't provide any support either as it is. Reverting the change to bountiful disillusionment and restorative mantras might make up for the loss as you'd have the ability to provide enough boons to be just a support imho

Most boon classes have to make these sacrifices though? Firebrand or Mirage were the only ones who could get away with 20% damage loss by taking a boon, all others were 30% or higher (yes, even Machinist). Your average player who just sets a build and doesn't learn a rotation loses over 50% of their damage.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by lack of support--Mirage still brings all the boons and utility of Chrono thanks to Mantras and skills like Feedback. The current off-meta healer build uses Mirage, not Chronomancer, even.

 

This is how things became a mess. I'm not saying the nerfs are good, I'm just saying the developers posted several times about their vision this last year and the current design of Mirage doesn't fit into it, which other non-Mirage players have pointed out. I used to main Chrono and I've always been sad at what Mirage did to it, taking over its roles in all content and basically rendering the class useless.

[Gesbo.6420]

37 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Most boon classes have to make these sacrifices though? Firebrand or Mirage were the only ones who could get away with 20% damage loss by taking a boon, all others were 30% or higher (yes, even Machinist). Your average player who just sets a build and doesn't learn a rotation loses over 50% of their damage.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by lack of support--Mirage still brings all the boons and utility of Chrono thanks to Mantras and skills like Feedback. The current off-meta healer build uses Mirage, not Chronomancer, even.

 

This is how things became a mess. I'm not saying the nerfs are good, I'm just saying the developers posted several times about their vision this last year and the current design of Mirage doesn't fit into it, which other non-Mirage players have pointed out. I used to main Chrono and I've always been sad at what Mirage did to it, taking over its roles in all content and basically rendering the class useless.

Yep. Mirage feels like it has no place in the game at this point. It feels like it needs a complete overhaul as the pve variants are gutted (unless you go for full damage that is), the pvp build has a massive handicap... its just sad...

[ventress.4879]

On 5/6/2023 at 5:59 AM, Gesbo.6420 said:

Yep. Mirage feels like it has no place in the game at this point. It feels like it needs a complete overhaul as the pve variants are gutted (unless you go for full damage that is), the pvp build has a massive handicap... its just sad...

You are basically right. Virtuoso is Mesmers best DPS and even survivability Elite and Chronomancer will quickly become the best Alacrity/Quickness provider Mesmer has. 

The only real exception could be slight difference with Condition DPS Alacrity Mirage. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Markus.6415]

I mean... 2.5 seconds of alac was the same amount we had for a long time before they divided the alac output on the player and the clones. You didn't need 100% boon duration for the alac back then. But the good thing was you could keep up the alac without a target or clones by just spamming the ambush attack, wich isn't possible anymore.

The 4s of base alac output before the recent nerf was arguably a bit high. You could go for full vipers and maintain 100% alac uptime quite easily, but on the other hand you also had to stack it up high for boss phasing or mechanics and so on.  And an alacdps that can only give it's boon during combat phases is quite bad, since you want alac all the time so you're cd's are ready for burn phases.

Then again... barely anyone played alacmirage and Anet had to jump to a "problem" that only really existed in the imaginary room of potential. It's the same nerf and buff cycle the catalyst is in right now, because they seem unable to find the sweet spot.

[HotDelirium.7984]

21 hours ago, Markus.6415 said:

I mean... 2.5 seconds of alac was the same amount we had for a long time before they divided the alac output on the player and the clones. You didn't need 100% boon duration for the alac back then. But the good thing was you could keep up the alac without a target or clones by just spamming the ambush attack, wich isn't possible anymore.

The 4s of base alac output before the recent nerf was arguably a bit high. You could go for full vipers and maintain 100% alac uptime quite easily, but on the other hand you also had to stack it up high for boss phasing or mechanics and so on.  And an alacdps that can only give it's boon during combat phases is quite bad, since you want alac all the time so you're cd's are ready for burn phases.

Then again... barely anyone played alacmirage and Anet had to jump to a "problem" that only really existed in the imaginary room of potential. It's the same nerf and buff cycle the catalyst is in right now, because they seem unable to find the sweet spot.

When you kill viper gear you also kill the ability for alacmirage to be flexable in power dmg preferred fights so it was more acceptable in like qadim or amalgamate but not anymore. Back to only condi with even  less flexibility. I'm not turning all my gear into ritalist if were getting another overhaul in June, I'll just wait.

[Ruisenior.6342]

That's why i've stopped playing the game. They are crushing this game, im not up anymore to invest my time on building up a class an equiping it because randomly some day it will be done.

Edit: Probably i won't spend a cent here anymore and i regret eod purchase.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Ruisenior.6342

[ventress.4879]

22 minutes ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

That's why i've stopped playing the game. They are crushing this game, im not up anymore to invest my time on building up a class an equiping it because randomly some day it will be done.

Edit: Probably i won't spend a cent here anymore and i regret eod purchase.

Its good to have a break and also try a different class. If Mesmer currently in a Nerf spiral play something different. 

Both Elementalist and Warrior are in a buff cycle so they are good picks at the moment. For the longest time they sucked. 

[Waffles.5632]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:53 PM, Seneca.6319 said:

Seeing all these comments and complaints but then you still log in to play the game is called "Stockholm syndrome". I've stopped playing the game since the last balance patch. It's frustrating to see how they just destroy the class and there is no vision. So the only thing I can do to show my anger is stop supporting the company and the game. It's actually great! There's life besides this game. So thank you ANet for giving my life back. F U for shitting on my energy, time and money...

Completely agree here.

The fact that Mirage has had to actually work to provide their alac by building up 3 staff clones, and then maintaining ambushes+clone management all while Renegade still only has to press one button would be absolutely infuriating if I still played. It is truly ridiculous how both of these alac builds have been in the game for years at this point, yet Anet considers the one requiring more skill the "problematic design."

Haven't logged on in MONTHS! Loving every second of it.

 

 

[A Hamster.2580]

Hmmm according to Snowcrows website (which I will trust over anyone here), staff mirage still does 3k more damage than alac rifle mechanist, 2k more than alac tempest and alac spectre (and that is not counting the potential bonus damage from confusion). It loses out to alac willbender and alac renegade.

 

To say the build is officially dead is exaggerating.

 

And for those of you that say you cannot maintain alac with full ritualist gears, I'm gonna have to say that is a skill issue. It seems you only need ~14% boon duration + regen or ~30% boon duration without regen.

[Mike.7983]

3 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

And for those of you that say you cannot maintain alac with full ritualist gears, I'm gonna have to say that is a skill issue. It seems you only need ~14% boon duration + regen or ~30% boon duration without regen.

80% boon duration is roughly 1.75 seconds personal and 3/4 seconds per clone, not sure what would be full uptime unless your dodging every 3 seconds non stop which is not realistic, even using second energy sigil staff and 20-30% endurance food on top.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

Hmmm according to Snowcrows website (which I will trust over anyone here), staff mirage still does 3k more damage than alac rifle mechanist, 2k more than alac tempest and alac spectre (and that is not counting the potential bonus damage from confusion). It loses out to alac willbender and alac renegade.

 

To say the build is officially dead is exaggerating.

 

And for those of you that say you cannot maintain alac with full ritualist gears, I'm gonna have to say that is a skill issue. It seems you only need ~14% boon duration + regen or ~30% boon duration without regen.

Have Snowcrows updated their benchmarks? It usually takes a couple of weeks for them to update everything after a balance patch.