[Poll] Hardcore Servers

[kharmin.7683]

47 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I don't think its a strict term. If its cosmetics it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. If its convenience or power I think it should be deleted. 

But, IMO, that is the risk one takes for playing HC.  All or nothing, otherwise what truly is the point?

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

The "hardcore" in this context usually means when you die your character and everything with him dies and is deleted.

I get that, but perma-death in a facerollingly easy open world such as we have in GW2 doesnt seem particularly hard core to me.

[Wolfshade.9251]

So... same rules as a raid instance. Doesn't really sound that hardcore to me. The thing that first came to my mind just based on the name was EXP/level loss and losing items on death, coupled with open world PVP enabled by default. Though let's face it, as much as I enjoyed the oldschool MMO experience, I wouldn't want to deal with that in GW2.

[Danikat.8537]

6 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

What is described in the OP does not come close to what I would consider, "hard core."

Taking longer to get where you are going is not hard core, it is what obstacles you have to overcome along the way that makes that distinction. When watching a movie where the protagonist catches an international flight do you find yourself wishing that the movie had its run time increased by twelve hours so that you can experience the full travel time?

I include no waypoints, mounts or gliding in my ruleset because otherwise it's easy to skip a lot of combat. It's not the time required which makes it a challenge but having to fight your way to your destination. And no that's not much of a challenge on low level maps (especially on a higher levelled character) but it's more than you'd get waypointing from one safe spot to another and only running the  last little bit to your destination.

Also it means I have to think about how best to get to my destination and move around the world differently to how I normally do, and since the whole point of the challenge is the novelty of having to play in a different way that's a bonus.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

I can see ANet doing this in two ways

1) As a challenge mode a player can activate.  It increases all incoming damage on their character, removes downstate, and, upon death, sends the character back to where they entered the map from.
This would be fun for me to have on, actually.  Bonus points if it gave an increase in magic find and map reward progress while active.

2) As an alternative character creation utilizing similar tech to the beta events for HoT, PoF, & EoD. However, instead of how the event copy/pastes your current account as of that character (EXP, unlocks, bank, wallet, etc.) you build a new character and it's completely divorced from your  prior progress (Aside from wardrobe unlocks).  Once you die on this character, they're deleted.  These characters have no access to the gemstore or trading post.

[Solvar.7953]

At least one problem with a challenge flag in PvE is that since the map is shared with players in non challenge mode, if using it gives any better rewards, everyone would enable it, and then just hang back at the metas, doing enough to get participation, but avoiding things that might kill them, to get the better rewards.

And if challenge mode doesn't give better rewards, then likely no one would use it, so it does nothing, but still took some amount of work for Anet to add and balance that feature.

One issue I see with permadeath modes in an on-line game is that some number of deaths may be outside my control (getting disconnected in the middle of a battle for any reason - this could be power failure, network issue, or maybe the computer just crashes).  So no doubt some players would be willing to take that risk, but I have to imagine that would be a really small percentage who would want to lose hundreds of hours of work to get killed because their computer crashed.

 

[Khisanth.2948]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:38 PM, Nothing.8564 said:

Those looking to push end-game content can retain the gear they've upgraded to legendary thanks to the existing legendary wardrobe system.

So you are claiming can do all the WvW required to unlock Conflux and enough raiding for Coalescence without ever dying?

or are you already planing to cheat by acquiring those in normal mode and just transferring stuff over?

On 5/5/2023 at 4:38 PM, Zebulous.2934 said:

So if a fractal boss fails to move to the next stage, the group is just dead.  You can't /gg to try the boss again.  I imagine that a raid boss that glitches would be the same, just on a larger scale. Seems like dead content in an HC server. 

For that matter, my mesmer will still teleport into a wall occasionally.  Does /stuck work when even city waypoints count as contested?

All of EoD metas as well. Each have some potential oneshot situations.

Especially Echovald's in the last phase. Then there is DS, it would really suck if you forgot to leave the map before it resets.

TD's donuts is pretty sketchy too especially for Nuhoch lane when they spawn in water.

[Nothing.8564]

2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

So you are claiming can do all the WvW required to unlock Conflux and enough raiding for Coalescence without ever dying?

or are you already planing to cheat by acquiring those in normal mode and just transferring stuff over?

 

Planning on cheating? My original post mentioned adding a new 'Realm Location' for fresh start, I guess I should state the obvious that transfers to the realm location would be disabled. As for HC in WvW or HotM, those game modes would either have to be disabled or be an exception for perma-death, even I don't see a HC PvP community being viable. The few exclusive rewards from PvP could be made obtainable elsewhere, there's only a hand full if I remember correctly.

 

 

On 5/4/2023 at 4:49 PM, Nothing.8564 said:

Add a new realm location for fresh start:
Hardcore North America
Hardcore Europe

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

I'm both not good enough (at avoiding all deaths) and too short on time to have any interest personally in a hardcore permadeath mode.

However, I would be very interested in a hard mode personal toggle which made all creatures tougher (or alternatively made your character weaker to achieve a similar effect which would probably be easier to implement).

I enjoy exploring zones but once you reach level 80 with good gear many of the zones become trivial in terms of challenge (barring the occasional champion). Sure, I could just deliberately play with terrible gear but then that's in direct conflict with one of the gameplay drivers of improving your gear, what's the point in working towards ascended or legendary gear if you have to then not use it to make the game a challenge?

(And yes, I realise there are plenty of content where the game IS already a challenge even for level 80s with good gear, I'm just saying I would like to be able to experience open world that way, like I could before reaching level 80 when I would deliberately go into zones above my characters level).

Edited May 11, 2023 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Urud.4925]

I enjoyed doing a world completion with perma-death on a fresh f2p account, few months ago, and I remember that sense of danger when I tried some world boss where I normally would just spam 1 with my main character. Trying not to die in fractals with a f2p account, without mistlock singularities is also fun. However, in most of the cases the hardcore just means to wait enough until you overpower the content, and when you complete the trial, there is no real incentive to continue to play.

Maybe adding a temporary seasonal server with particular rules could make things a bit spicy? Like Runescape or Path of Exile do, from what I've heard.

Otherwise, as permanent server, I might enjoy something without perma-death, but with much tougher enemies (in core maps only, no expansions) and no mount/fast travel, so that more cooperation would be required, but without being scared to go melee not to die.

[Cyninja.2954]

Not an unusual request, especially with WoW hardcore having some attention currently again.

 

A bit short sighted it seems though if one thinks about what "hardcore" usually means in terms of player engagement. Most often "hardcore" in other games means reducing or limiting chance of death via:

1. Reducing relying on not controlable factors (aka other players)

2. Reducing danger often via sticking to safe content

3. Staying geared to the maximum as best one can (unles other rules are in place)

4. Overleveling as much as possible

 

Most of those points simply do not mesh well with how GW2 is designed from the ground up. Some of the strongest points here are the benefits players have when playing together like shared gathering nodes, being able to ressurect other players without dedicated skills for that, the way boons and combo fields work, etc.

 

Now imagine adding a mode which:

1. actively discourages having other players around (content scaling can become dangerous)

2. does not allow for players to massively overlevel content

3. open world is already very simplistic pushing any and all danger into instanced content if at all

4. there is no gearing, no goals to aim for once 80 

5. map slots are limited and having them occupied by players which are likely to avoid metas is counter produktive, less of a concern for core metas, far more for expansion metas

 

That's before getting into an issues of potentially seperate servers, additional work for customer service, additional work for developers, etc..

 

I personally don't mind, but am not seeing it. Maybe as some kind of limited or special selfcontained mode designed around this aspect (think The Division 1 Surivor mode).

Edited May 11, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[naiasonod.9265]

*dusts forum account off*

No.

*Goes back to hibernation*

[Nilkemia.8507]

No. Please stop suggesting bad ideas.

[Nothing.8564]

6 hours ago, Nilkemia.8507 said:

No. Please stop suggesting bad ideas.

Often times people are unable to see the benefits of things that are not directly related to them or their interests. Hardcore World of Warcraft was just officially announced yesterday due to the large audience its amassed over a short few months. Blizzard, a company that has arguably blundered almost all of its announcements over the last decade actually received an immense amount of positivity with this one. Almost everyone I've seen post online about GW2 is that its a 'hidden gem', if HC GW2 was released during this trend in the MMO community it would undoubtedly put the game on peoples radar whether or not they're interested in that specific game mode. HC content makes for great streaming and content material for viewers, GW2 has maintained a respectable player base but will likely always remain a 'hidden gem' to the larger MMO community.

[FiveBunnies.5730]

I love my commander. I want the commander to be happy and save the world.  I don't want the commander to die and be removed. That would be very sad. 🙁

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:49 PM, Nothing.8564 said:

Add a new realm location for fresh start:
Hardcore North America
Hardcore Europe

Two features disabled and HC exists.
Disable waypoints(make them all contested)
Disable reviving dead corpses


Personally, the open world feel the game would have with waypoints disabled, and PvE content having risk would be fun for me, especially with a community behind it.

Why?

Hardcore Servers is a Solution for a Problem guildwars doesn't have.

1. The community isn't there.

2. Thanks to how GW 2 servers work you wouldn't need extra servers anyway. We share here. Its not like wow where the influx of Hardcore player pick all resource Nodes clean or overpopulate starting areas an steal each other the quest mobs.

 

The real Problem is GW 2 lacks the Addon support to track your Hardcore Journey by a second party. I don't really know how much information you get out of the account key. It does track character death so you could built something that could track an unrestricted hardcore Journey. 

 

If you get a large enough community of Hardcore player together, Then is it time to ask Anet for further support. Reaching a deathless level 80 Achievement would be nice. Special server for hardcore player are not in demand or needed even if demand was here.

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Nothing.8564 said:

Often times people are unable to see the benefits of things that are not directly related to them or their interests. Hardcore World of Warcraft was just officially announced yesterday due to the large audience its amassed over a short few months. Blizzard, a company that has arguably blundered almost all of its announcements over the last decade actually received an immense amount of positivity with this one.

So, exactly the same situation that happened much earlier with Classic WoW. And we all know how that ended. Why do you think the results will be different this time?

[Nothing.8564]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, exactly the same situation that happened much earlier with Classic WoW. And we all know how that ended. Why do you think the results will be different this time?

Your post leaves too much to the imagination. If you're implying that Classic WoW somehow failed to cultivate an audience, I'd recommend referencing any source that has an estimate of its player count. Not to mention that Vanilla classic WoW had its own natural resurgence without any content update thanks in part to community HC challenges, which once again, were popular enough to gain official support. Even Oldschool Runescape has managed to grow its already respectable playerbase, and once again, its Ironman(HC) challenges were implemented and amassed massive views on social media platforms.

HC gameplay makes for great steaming/video content which would put GW2 on the map for a much larger audience. Anyone here can look up viewer counts of HC modes implemented in MMO's and see the interest viewers have. Generally the only videos that get views for GW2 content are large channels that post a single video 'Let's check out GW2 in 2023!' or something of that sort.

[FiveBunnies.5730]

1 hour ago, Nothing.8564 said:

Your post leaves too much to the imagination. If you're implying that Classic WoW somehow failed to cultivate an audience, I'd recommend referencing any source that has an estimate of its player count. Not to mention that Vanilla classic WoW had its own natural resurgence without any content update thanks in part to community HC challenges, which once again, were popular enough to gain official support. Even Oldschool Runescape has managed to grow its already respectable playerbase, and once again, its Ironman(HC) challenges were implemented and amassed massive views on social media platforms.

HC gameplay makes for great steaming/video content which would put GW2 on the map for a much larger audience. Anyone here can look up viewer counts of HC modes implemented in MMO's and see the interest viewers have. Generally the only videos that get views for GW2 content are large channels that post a single video 'Let's check out GW2 in 2023!' or something of that sort.

But don't WoW Classic and the return of Living World Season 1  have the same purpose?  Just an opportunity for players who missed the early story to get it? No more hardcore there, is there?

Edited May 15, 2023 by FiveBunnies.5730

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, Nothing.8564 said:

Your post leaves too much to the imagination. If you're implying that Classic WoW somehow failed to cultivate an audience, I'd recommend referencing any source that has an estimate of its player count. Not to mention that Vanilla classic WoW had its own natural resurgence without any content update thanks in part to community HC challenges, which once again, were popular enough to gain official support. Even Oldschool Runescape has managed to grow its already respectable playerbase, and once again, its Ironman(HC) challenges were implemented and amassed massive views on social media platforms.

HC gameplay makes for great steaming/video content which would put GW2 on the map for a much larger audience. Anyone here can look up viewer counts of HC modes implemented in MMO's and see the interest viewers have. Generally the only videos that get views for GW2 content are large channels that post a single video 'Let's check out GW2 in 2023!' or something of that sort.

Yes, because GW2 is an unknown MMO and only "HC servers" will put it on the map after a decade. Also, twitch will explode from everyone tuning in to watch gw2 pve players die and have to travel around more... 

 

Lots of gymnastics in your posts.

 

Not gonna happen so just go enjoy wow for your "HC" needs. 

 

[Zephire.8049]

20 hours ago, Nothing.8564 said:

Often times people are unable to see the benefits of things that are not directly related to them or their interests. Hardcore World of Warcraft was just officially announced yesterday due to the large audience its amassed over a short few months. Blizzard, a company that has arguably blundered almost all of its announcements over the last decade actually received an immense amount of positivity with this one. Almost everyone I've seen post online about GW2 is that its a 'hidden gem', if HC GW2 was released during this trend in the MMO community it would undoubtedly put the game on peoples radar whether or not they're interested in that specific game mode. HC content makes for great streaming and content material for viewers, GW2 has maintained a respectable player base but will likely always remain a 'hidden gem' to the larger MMO community.

People can also become unable to see why something isn't possible or a bad idea because they want it don't accept others have other opinions.

WoW is a different style of MMO with a larger playerbase. It is also not the first MMO to have a hardcore mode. Chasing fads does not result in good gameplay (before this it was people wanting vanilla/classic servers, before that it was people wanting a battle royale mode; there's also been requests for base-building, survival, racing, and whatever else a popular game has at the time). One could argue GW2 is a "hidden gem" because it does not jump on fads and does not do things other MMOs do.

It's also "hidden" because Anet's marketing may as well not exist but a lot of it is also because it's different than the likes of WoW and FFXIV so people get turned off if they try it because they have to approach it differently. You said it yourself, GW2 has a respectable number of players that it maintains even over a decade later. It survived the MMO boom and bust of the 2010s that saw many MMOs die or be shut down completely ergo it must be doing something right. It would be nice if GW2 got the recognition it deserves but following WoW or creating a mode that does not appeal to GW2's playerbase is not it.

There's nothing stopping a streamer from making their own HC, perma-death run from 1-80 (and throw in the expansions and living world) and hyping that—and they would absolutely get views if they had a charismatic personality and properly advertised it—but there's zero need for Anet to spend resources developing it and putting other things on hold for said development. It would be a flash in a pan at best and have less appeal than raiding did, and they outright stated raiding's small population was a deciding factor in why they were no longer going to make new ones because it made no sense for them to spend so many resources on something ~5% of the playerbase participated in.

[Solvar.7953]

Easiest level 1-80 perma death run ever: 80 books of knowledge

I suppose one could mix in some of the level 40/50/60 boosts from birthday gifts and need fewer books of knowledge.

 

[Cuks.8241]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:15 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, exactly the same situation that happened much earlier with Classic WoW. And we all know how that ended. 

With a big success?

[Astralporing.1957]

50 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

With a big success?

Yes, sure. Which is why half of the Classic servers are completely dead and there are population issues in most of the remaining ones.

[Cuks.8241]

12 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, sure. Which is why half of the Classic servers are completely dead and there are population issues in most of the remaining ones.

Wotlk classic has right now over 350k online players (live data) in the west. That would put it on no. 4 largest games on steam right now in comparison (again live data). Oh and all of the bigger games are f2p.

If that is bad for a re-release of a 15 year old game, I don't know. I would be more then happy with that.

Didn't they just open a new batch of vanilla servers? Would they do that if it would be a flop.

I wonder if gw2 comes anywhere close to that. Probably not even close, but I don't really know.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Cuks.8241